Travis Alexander’s Pedophile Letter Handwriting Comparison – (Part 2, continued)

418 Comments

1. Repost from the last page in response to Cindy:

   Yup.

   When you look at all the new emails, and Secret Witness #1’s testimony, and the computer snafu, and put it all together, in its totality, it suddenly shows that the whole state’s case was based on suppositions, and lies and misdirection.

   When you go back and look at it all as one – the first guilt phase trial and the retrial you suddenly realize that there is stuff that came out that would have, or could have, or should have made a difference to the original trial.

   Now, normally that becomes an appellate issue. But in reality the case isn’t over till the sentencing is done – so this case is completely open and still in JSS’s hands. That’s why the appeals court wouldn’t accept jurisdiction on KNs appeal for the Chronis hearing and the Horn/Flores perjury. Since the case is still open at this stage does that mean KN still has a chance to make a motion to JSS, and if so do all the various motions he’s already made count or does he need to make another one?

   • The two phases of the trial were SO different. I recall being concerned when the judge said after the first verdict was read that another jury would decide on sentencing. I thought, “how in all fairness will a jury be able to do that without hearing EVERYTHING all over again?” Then as the new evidence was exposed during the sentencing phase I became even MORE concerned about the lack of fairness. Jodi was NOT given the right to a fair and COMPLETE trial and I truly believe that she WILL walk free from prison because of this.

     • Dorothy we can only pray!!! I was so angry that this jury didn’t pay attention to the computer stuff. It’s like they never questioned it. Why??

       • The only reason I can figure the reason for that is because the second jury was going into it with a “she has been proven guilty already” instruction right off the bat. I guess they MUSTN’T have known any of the evidence they saw was NEW evidence or evidence that was contrary to what the first jury heard. I just don’t understand how any of this was fair.

       • By the way cindy jewell, good morning! How is your shoulder healing? Are you having PT?

         • I’m good!! I got the sling off on Friday and yesterday was the first time I was able to drive!!!! :-). Yup PT starts tomorrow. My biggest concern was ending up with a frozen shoulder…. But that didn’t happen…:-). It really wasn’t a big deal except for not using my right arm until everything stayed in place. Thanks for asking…

           • Great news!

             • Glad to hear you are on the mend Cindy!

     • Dorothy,
       That was my concern.
       Another jury to make the penalty?
       Then we and they heard a lot more DOUBT in this last trial.

       Did this jury just think they heard the same as the first jury and they didn’t really need to pay attention because it was DP or LIP? How could this jury even think that the first jury got it right, after hearing ALL of the new evidence, thinking it was what the first jury had heard??

       I don’t think I’ve ever heard of this before.
       Has anyone on here ever heard of this happening before?

       • Nope, Dorothy, this trial blew my mind with evidence in one that still shouldn’t have convicted her had JM not lied and the jurors been of sound mind to see through all JM’s bullshit. Then suddenly letters surfacing that would prove JM a liar for hiding evidence that would have exonerated her. I’m appalled, the trial was a sham.

         • I think that is just ONE of the Brady Laws that were broken in these 2 trials.

           Bob Dylan has a song “Everything Is Broken”

           Reminds me of these 2 trials

     • I think we all felt the same, Dorothy, well at the appeals something Has to give, the unfairness has got to be dealt with and I’m banking on her case being overturned. #Winning 🙂

     • Jodi was not given a fair anything!

       Plea deal? Denied.
       Speedy trial? Certainly denied.
       Unbiased jury? Denied.
       Impartial judge? Denied.
       Law abiding prosecutor? Hell ya: Denied.
       Truthful state witnesses? Denied.
       Loyal attorneys? Questionable for one party…
       Fair media coverage? DENIED.
       Fair trial? Denied.
       Justice? Denied.

   • Al, thanks and I agree it ain’t over until the fat lady sings…well OK JSS sings.. I only hope that KN over loads JSS with motions in the next few weeks. One motion for every one of these things that has come up in this trial.

     Does anyone think there was a reason why the asked for 30ty days before JSS handed down sentencing? Perhaps it was just due to the civil case. You know the one that no one has talked about!!

     Another thing I think is odd is we all know that if JSS was ready then why would anyone have to get up and beg either way? It wouldn’t have any differents.

   • It appears that Nurmi has filed yet another motion to withdraw so I don’t expect to see him file any other motions between now and sentencing. The record is the record, so everything previously filed can be considered on appeal. An appeal is really nothing more than a review of the record and what occurred.

     I hope Nurmi did a good job of preserving the record so that there are enough strong issues for appeal but I haven’t tracked it specifically. I can’t help but think that one of the issues any appellate attorney would review is ineffective assistance of counsel based on Nurmi’s numerous attempts to withdraw.

     I commented last week that I read Scott Peterson’s initial brief and was pretty horrified by how boring it was (I read many appellate briefs while preparing my own — which I won pro se). But also, that the issues were not ones I felt were strong other than the media circus surrounding the case, and yet, that was not presented as one of the first issues. CA has no page limit for briefs, I assume, since Peterson’s brief was so long. I assumed his appellate attorney was inexperienced until I looked him up and realized he had been doing this since 1981. I was appalled. I sure hope Jodi finds good appellate attorneys.

     • I’m confused by KN filing to be removed at this stage? Is that normal?
       Why don’t they just keep things simple?

       • No R, it’s not “normal.” He’s been trying to get off this case for years though. He files motions to withdraw at every possible juncture, from what I’ve seen. This time, his motion might actually be granted. Or the judge might just tell him he’s only got a few more days and he needs to suck it up. Or, she just might refuse to rule on his most recent motion until after she sentences Jodi which would render his motion moot.

         I’m sorry. I know that a lot of people here seem to think he did a great job in the second trial. In my opinion, he had a duty to represent his client as well as he could — not just to the best of his ability (and his ability is seriously lacking). He’s a horse’s ass, in my opinion.

         Have you ever read his website? “Most people know who I am, based on the fact that I represented Jodi Arias at trial that received national and international attention. However, while this case is how many know me, my representation of Ms. Arias at trial is not when my legal career began.”

         Give me a break. “Most people” in the world don’t even know who Jodi is, let alone the fat guy who poorly represented her and got her convicted. He will go down in history of “most people’s” recollections as the guy who took more than 60 seconds to say “aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand.” That conjunction has never been dragged out as long ever before. He won’t be remembered at all 5 years from now, not even by us (we’ll all need Journee to refresh our recollections here as she’s the only one with the excellent memory who’ll remind us).

         We’ll all be saying “What was that fat guy’s name who was Jodi’s lawyer?” “Oh yeah, he lost weight and grew some hair for the second trial, didn’t he, but I totally forgot his name?” “I didn’t see him pick his nose as much during the second trial, maybe the weight loss helped. But yeah, what was his name? Damn, I need to look that up.” “Didn’t he fall asleep during the trial? I’m pretty sure that’s on YouTube. But what was his name?” “Oh you mean the schmuch who didn’t like Jodi 9 days out of 10? Hmmm I forgot his name.” That’s his legacy.

         • Stilloutthere, I don’t think this has anything to do with this. You explained it to me the other night. Why on earth would JSS seal it?? That just doesn’t make any sense to me.
           Who is her attorney for the civil case? Was it KN? nevermind I just answered my own question. That cast wouldn’t be heard in front of JSS. Perhaps there was a motion that was still hanging out there that we didn’t know about and she denied so he filed another motion to get off the case. Just a simple thought.

           • I would assume it’s sealed because there’s some information that shouldn’t yet be made public. For example, it could have to do with a different case Nurmi is working on. There are so many possibilities.

             Nurmi is a criminal attorney. He would not represent Jodi in a civil case. I have no idea who will represent her in the civil case. I don’t even know how she could possibly afford an attorney for that case unless someone does it pro bono.

         • Thanks Stilloutthere! Right to the point. ♥

         • StillOutThere, After reading Jodi’s letter to request a different attorney replace Nurmi in first chair, I lost EVERY iota of respect I had for him. The way he treated Jodi is appalling. The abuse in her life continues. I always thought the job Nurmi did was mediocre at best…but his bad ATTITUDE toward Jodi and the case was blatantly obvious. I said this before and I will say it again…fuck him and his socks and ties too. Prick…my opinion.

           • Also StillOutThere, LOL 😆 at “aaaaaaaand” HA!

           • LOL Dorothy! Was it you who used to enjoy the Wild About Trial comments on the colour of his damn socks? Salmon? OMG if there’s one thing I’m relieved about this being over, it’s that I’ll never again have to read Wild About Trial’s stupid ridiculous tweets.

     • Very good, StillOutThere! 😀 It’s just how it will be!

   • Jodi Arias: An Argument for a Reasonable Doubt

     http://justice4jodi.wikispaces.com

     Just passed the 9000 count of first time visitors.

     And I’ve added the new page, with arguments against forgery, entitled “Travis’ Confession to Jodi”:

     http://justice4jodi.wikispaces.com/Travis%27+Confession

     • Justice! Very good! I hadn’t noticed the way he crossed out his mistakes with swirls. The context of the example of TA’s known handwriting seems copied not original TA work. I would like to compare it to a known letter he had written to someone close to him as well. Oftentimes the sentence structure, phrases, misspellings (ie your instead of you’re) can also be used for comparison and to deem authenticity. A VERY talented forger might not notice the little things that recur in most people’s letters…even comparing the letter to a type-written letter can prove or disprove forgery. But that letter was clearly written by TA. Anyone who disagrees with that is either a complete idiot, blind, or lying.

     • We have already done a lot of the work.
       We have all those documents that Jade created that show evidence of perjury, Brady etc. I believe it was up to 7 or 9 titles appearing on the first page of the JAII site. Can those sort of things be bundled collectively as an attachment, so the appeals court could just thumb through them to see all the ways the evidence proves this case to be valid for dismissal with prejudice? There are also other proofs our team has created. Yes, Justice For us All. I think something organized like that would be inviting to a busy appeals judge, as a quick perusal of the scope of the harm done. Hopefully there would be some jaws dropped when whoever is in charge gets a look at the cumulative weight of the evidence.

       A few weeks ago, Al was reinforcing the concept of somehow coherently tying together the cumulative evidence of harm that we have documented. We shouldn’t have to beg for permission to include an informal attachment, should we?

     • Justus, I will never get tired of saying that your wiki page is brilliant!

       (((Justus))) ♥

       • Hi, Justice and Pandora,

         This is a transcribed post originally by Alexey, Nov 12, 2013 @12:35 am. I think she may be Russian, having lived under the boot. So she would know that of which she speaks.

         This post seems important, because she has documented information that I have not previously known about Martinez roll in our melodrama.

         Martinez’ Threats to Matt McCartney:

         Martinez uneqivocally told Matt: “If you testify I will bring you up on perjury charges before your feet hit the ground.” “Or something to that effect.”

         “It’s a scare tactic so typical of Martinez! He uses intimidation on a daily basis to to get his way. He also threatened Patti Womak, Jodi’s best friend, with prosecution (for drug charges) if she testified. Needless to say her drug use has no bearing on the case, but Msartinez just used her one weakness to keep her from testifying for Jodi.” (choice word) “”He destroyed the defence merely by abusing the power of his office! The defence could not threaten Dr. Horn or Det. Flores with perjury charges (and they lied on the stand).””

         Prosecutors have WAAAY too much latitude, defence attorneys do not yieldso much clout,so it’s no wonder we have so many people locked up in prison! The US justice system is a train wreck! It’s like what we hadf in Russia during Stalin – a crying shame! The justice system needs purging! Throw Martinez in prison for threatening defence witnesses! “”

     • Justice For Us All: Congratulations on making 9,000! Somebody who has enough clout to talk with our leaders _ Nurmi is scaring me a lot. I kept looking forward to CH’s face turning red _ but I found my face turning red, instead. That was just a shameful performance. What is a team to do?

       Something has just gone down in the FLDS conclave. It sounds like house cleaning to me. It might just be that I am in the wrong decade again, but I think a huge tract of tax-free church property has changed hands at auction, and one of the more moderate fundamentalist leaders bought out a plot with a temple on it.

       It has made the news. It sounded like a big deal that NOW all of a sudden the young’uns are going to be allowed to get a traditional education, which had been forbidden previously.

   • That had no case for premeditation. This was about as flimsy as the case against Casey Anthony.

     The prosecution narrative was and is identical to what was being peddled by TA’s so-called friends and promoted by CBS’s 48 Hours back in 2009. Jealous stalker travels 1,000 miles from Yreka to Mesa, with of course some side trips in California, to seek revenge because this virginal, successful motivational speaker decided he was going to go to Cancun with another woman. JM’s narrative is basically the same thing as Hughes and company were peddling.

     Everybody was covering up, like Mormons often do to save face, because Travis fell so far short of perfection in this world and in the afterlife. Chris and Sky Hughes did it, other friends did it, the family still does it, and, most significantly, Jodi did it. Remember, we are basically dealing with a cult more than a Christian denomination here.

     The sex tape for all time destroyed the prosecution case and was a complete game-changer for me and many others who followed the case. This was nothing more than self-defense against an abuser.

     • Tonysam, we may not agree on every point but I do have to commend you on this post!!
       excellent job!!!!

     • Great post tonysam.

     • How about “jealous stalker” moves 1000 miles from Mesa to Yreka to get on with her life? That part is always left out.

       • Another great point! 😉

     • And from me, TonySam, good post!

     • Bravo Tonysam! Well said! And just to add: SELF DEFENSE IS NOT A CRIME, ffs!

   • Martinez and this “JustDa” person are still pumping oxygen into the so-called “computer snaffu” and completely mis-characterizing it. I had a bad feeling when we were going through that phase, that there was so much obfuscation crerated that everybody was loosing the plot. And I think that has actually happened.

     That was a period where the deck was being shuffled every single day regarding the scheduling of the various hearings. They ended up being so out of an orderly progression, I could not figure out what was going on. Then there would be sudden conclusions to testimony, without actually drawing it to a coherent ending.

     I don’t think it is realistic to suppose that the jurors were able to understand what was happening. That screwball stuff with “The family” dashing from one end of the building to another was a huge and successful distraction.

     I am heartbroken over the rotting and decay of what used to be the most wonderful country on the planet. Now it is gone. I feel very scared a lot of the time.

     • And just think Seabird, we had seen ALL the first trial and yet it was sometimes hard to follow all the attempts martinez made to hide the computer issues. Imagine the second jury that had no idea about the evidence that martinez tried so hard to destroy…

       As for the alexanders pulling all those fucking tricks? They are totally soulless. I pity them.

       I too am heartbroken over the rotting and decay of what has happened to JUSTICE (a concept and theory that was born in Ancient Greece).

       “The concept of justice is based on numerous fields, and many differing viewpoints and perspectives including the concepts of moral correctness based on ethics, rationality, law, religion, equity and fairness.”

       ^^^This is what we never witnessed all through Jodi’s trial. SMH.

       • Very gracefully stated, Pandora. It is very refreshing to have influence from the classical cultures.
         Thank you. 🙂

2. Thank you SJ. And thank you for posting the letter TA wrote to Jodi and the pdf link with the other example of TA’S handwriting for comparison. It is obvious that the letter is authentic and was written by TA. That letter PROVES that Jodi spoke the TRUTH on the stand…
   To all those who continue to label Jodi as a liar: TAKE THEM APPLES!

3. This is a bit off topic but has been a question I have had floating around in my brain.

   Why did TA Iose his Temple rights again in 2008?? Well it seems Miss Lisa talked not only to her parents but to her Bishop about her Bishop about her relationship with Travis. They ended their relationship and early February and Travis lost his Temple when in 2008?? Just something that struck me as a coincidence.

   • Lord only knows Cindy… 🙄 There were SO many reasons why TA could have lost his “temple rights” …krikey! 😯 it seems just when I think everything has come out about him SOMETHING ELSE comes out. That letter to Jodi…OMG! He was ridden with inner demons, so his entire life was one big mess.

     • Dorothy, I know it hurts my brain to sort thought all this stuff in order to form a reasonably intelligent opinion. No matter what the “letter” is in TA’s own hand writhing. How could anyone question it. I find it hard to believe that KN would lie to the cashes.

       I also find it odd that they all of a sudden would show up in court. scoopy made such a big deal out of that!!! Then the next thing that was odd is we see Sky being very active on the States page. Perhaps it’s just to promote their book. But you can always tell when someone is losing because they are the ones with the biggest mouths….

       • I’m not clear what you are referring to when you say, ” KN would lie to the cashes” …just need clarification
         I also feel cash being ever present in court suspect, although book material was most likely the reason. I wasn’t aware of Sky’s activity on the State’s page…I don’t even know what that is.

         • Oh SH is flapping her mouth about how KN sent them the letter and lied to her to get them testify for the defense.

           Humm I don’t think I can say the name of the site here…..sorry!!

           • Thanks cindy…I wouldn’t go to a pro TA site anyway. 🙂 I’m not into self abuse 😉
             How did that letter from TA to Jodi become public? This is the first I have seen of it. Has it been out there all along and I just didn’t see it?

         • I believe that KN gave them the letters to read for their own benefit. He knew how damaging it would be to find out someone they had trusted had sexual desires towards their children. I believe he honestly was trying to show them concern and compassion for their family. Only people like them would take it and turn it in to anything other than that. Remember she was extremely grateful to begin with. I swear I believe her tongue is forked.

           • I do not believe KN would have lied to them ever.

             • Either do I R. No reason I can see anyway. He could extract what he wanted from there testimony.

               • Typo~their

               • Think of the children. . . how sad. They think nothing will come from it. We know different, don’t we. So sad.

           • It must be HORRIBLE to discover something like that about a member of your own family. Their denying it might be because they are ashamed. AND R. Love, OMG…The children! It just breaks my heart.

       • Cindy, a couple of months ago, Chris was on the circuit, stomping his foot and pouting about Nurmi lying to his wife! It turns out it was one of those kind of lies that police investigators are “allowed” to do. Flores misled her about something, trying to trick evidence out of her. I’m tired and details aren’t coming. But true to form, he was frothing with righteous indignation. The haters were all growling with outrage.

   • Well, Lisa wrote Travis an email about how she spoke to her parents and her bishop about him. How many other women wrote to their bishops?

     • Oh heck, I bet Jodi forged that too. 😆
       Lucky Lisa the one that got away! WOW! She must be “sitting pretty” knowing what she was able to avoid. Or we could go back to Deanna again. 🙄 But I would guess there had been several that had spoke to their Bishop with concerns about him.

       • Yep R and don’t forget, he liked ’em young. So, I bet there were a few other girls who went to their parents — and the parents called in the bishop — about his grab ass tactics and other crap. Lisa said in her email to him that sex was just about all he talked about. Lisa was smart and had well-defined boundaries. She ultimately got away, but even she almost “messed up” with him — whatever that means. And she’d tried to break up with him a few times before that. But he drew her back in, somehow. Persuasive, huh?

         Sheesh, will someone please tell me what this guy’s draw was? I mean, he wasn’t particularly good looking (IMHO — although women on Twitter seem to think he was God’s gift). He wasn’t particularly ugly either — albeit not my type. He was just very very average in my opinion. But somehow, he got these girls to totally fall for him.

         • Snake Oil Salesman..

           • Also known as the charm of a sociopath.

             • Yep, just like my ex. I will never forget the conversations I had with his mistress after she kicked him out (one of his mistresses, I should say). He went to her house after he was arrested for attempting to kill me. His father paid his bond and then, drove him there. She took him in and let him stay with her. She was in love with him at the time. She thought she’d met the man of her dreams. When she threw him out a few months later, after he attempted to strike her, she called me. I remember her saying he wasn’t her type at all in any of her 48 years. Sure, I remember that too. He wasn’t my “type” when I was 23 either. I was 45 when he tried to kill me. He still wasn’t my “type” really other than he had dark hair and eyes. I’m not even sure I had a type before him. I think he became my “type” because I was so desperately in love with him. But, as the mistress and I discussed, I think his “type” was more his ability to make you feel sorry for him. Perhaps that was his entire allure.

               The more I hear about Travis and his emails to women, the more I relate to that same sick kind of “allure.” “I’ve been stabbed in the chest; I’m the only man in my family not to go to jail; I’m an orphan.” That’s a snippet of how he described himself to women he was interested in, but didn’t know. Even to women in another country. Cries for attention and love and nurturing. And we, most women anyway, we nurture, we rescue. Our biological makeup is such that we do that. We’re the childbearers. We are born with that innate ability to love our children and nurture them. It’s not that difficult to awaken that ability in us and make us “nurture.”

       • WE have to believe that all these women spoke to the same Bishop. I wonder if that sparked any corrective action within the Stake or Ward. But, again, I’ve been on the band wagon that TA was NOT a person who didn’t have an enemy in the world, as his promoters suggest. Look at John Hepworth who skipped out on TA in the middle of the night. Not too long before he was killed. I can’t help wonder if TA had tried something inappropriate there?

     • Still,

       Is this material that BK has on her site new to us and not released before through the media? Someone said they were a member of her site, and I would like to know if she has the retrial in full on it. If I wait for CrimeTime, Jodi will be up for appeal and I will be still waiting for Day 16.

       From the beginning, the mormons and ppl have been censoring what has been released. Two things I am still waiting for and are at the centre of this case, are the emails in total between the Hughes and TA, and these pedo letters which NE refused to publish when Jodi’s mom took them there – the same media who screamed to the highest court when Jodi attempted to protect her witnesses and mitigation from the pitchforkers.

       • Carol (hope it’s okay to call you that), I’ve seen very little on Beth Karas’s site that is truly “exclusive.” I paid for membership because I wanted to read the “so-called” manifesto. I’ve had an interest in that since the first trial. I really expected it to be something, I guess. Something, as in, something we didn’t know about. A few days after Beth released it, it was available everywhere. So, what’s the point.

         Now that we’ve all seen it — although no one here is discussing it, surprisingly — I feel like I wasted my $5.99 subscribing to her site. But, she does have the trial videos and she does have all of them. So, I thought I could help by watching specific days you all have questions about. It’s emotionally disturbing though and I hadn’t expected that — or at least, not to the extent it has affected me. I should have. I watched the first trial, after all. I thought I wanted to watch them all, and maybe I still do. But I’m very busy with work right now (tax day cometh LOL) and I don’t have much free time. Beth’s site loads slowly for me (whether I’m at home or at work — so I know it’s not just *my* issue.) My worn down state may make it more difficult for me.

         But, to answer your question, no, she has nothing that others don’t have. She has put up the segments of the trial consistently over the past week or so. She does have the entire retrial. I could watch any day of it — if it would load, that is.

         Also, I should note that she had this letter before anyone else and she talked about it in a video. She was really torn about whether or not she should release it to the public. Ultimately, she didn’t. I think it was a step further than she wanted to go or was comfortable going. You would think that would have been a HUGE scoop for her. While I’ve never particularly supported her in any way, I felt that her torment in releasing it had to do with the child named in the letter. She could have claimed this big scoop. She could easily have been “the first.” But that didn’t matter to her as much as her integrity. She worked for HLN so her integrity is questionable to begin with. But, she may not be quite the HLN reporter we all thought she was. I also remember times when Nancy Disgrace cut her off because well, she was being way too logical (not allowed).

         • Thank you so much for the information. I am still struggling with myself. I guess I will have to just bite the bullet and order them from Maricopa although it is making me scream inside that the AZ media are choosing to be so ignorant after all their fuss about transparency. I wonder if there is a way to order part of it, from day 16 on.

           • Yes, I believe you can order a day at a time.

             1-20 is now up on Beth Karas’s site, and seems to be playing for me today, so I’m checking it out.

         • Thank you StillOutThere. My first reply went to the barn.

   • hmmm –

     Also in early 2008 was the roommate that had such a blowup with Travis that he moved out in the middle of the night. That was towards the end of January as I recall. Name was John something?? I think?

     Then there’s whatever creepy brain authored the letter to Lisa – no telling what other anonymous correspondence that person sent, or to whom.

     • Good points, Journee. With all the shit that went on in his house, what was sooooo terrible that John felt he had to move out in the middle of the night?

       Oh and of course, we all know that Jodi wrote that letter to Lisa … yeah right! So, who was that person? Why did they write that?

       The walls were just tumbling down around Travis right around that time. How can everyone not see that? (Oh I forget. We’re all “broken people” here.)

       • Boy you put that nicely Still. LOL. I have read some pretty offensive descriptions of the people that defend Jodi. Oh well who cares…

       • T-Dogg started renting out his rooms in 2005 and I read that he had twenty-two roommates. That seems like quite a turnover to me.

         • Okay, so in 3 years, he had 22 roommates. Shit, I thought I had a lot of roommates. I had 6 different roommates between 1985-1992 (7 years for those who might need help with the maths) when I vowed to never have a roommate again.

           Of course, I only lived in apartments with 2-3 bedrooms. How many bedrooms did Travis have to rent, again? It couldn’t have been more than 3 or could it?

           • I only know of the two rooms that he rented. From the ones they interviewed, they really didn’t even know TA very well at all. I do believe that he would have been a difficult and demanding person to try to stay within the same walls with even if there was not much interaction.

             • Maybe this is why the roommates didn’t worry about where he was…just glad he wasn’t there.

         • It does seems a rather large amount. If he was so perfect and successful, what was the problem?

     • I love your recall Journee. I forgot about that whole roommate issues. Where is he Now..hummm. Was he ever questioned?

       • Oh of course not, Cindy. Really? You think Flores would have questioned someone with pertinent information? Why would he EVER have done that? He had his suspect and he didn’t have to work on this case. Jodi did it. Don’t you know that? Ugh!

         • I bad…lol

           • You are, lady. I think I will have to send Al over there to spank you. LOL

     • Journee,
       I don’t know if this will help with the questionable roommate that left suddenly, but Jodi told Detective Flores he might want to talk to Thomas Brown, and she identified him as the person Travis kicked out. This was in her telephone conversation on either June 10, 2008 or shortly thereafter.

       • Carol, did Jodi give any reason why TA can’t come out? Is he the one who told Jodi about what TA was doing?

         • Jodi’s Telephone call around June 10, 2008 that was shown in court and transcribed:

           ‘That was last spring of 2007, March even, and what happened was he got kicked out because he was considered like borderline sexual predator—not like a rapist, but coming on to girls and…and you know that kind of thing, and it’s just really looked down upon in the church and so he was dis-fellowshipped and Travis said you need to get out’

           • You mean he was just like T-Dogg – probably stepping on his own action with the chickies of the ward – that he didn’t kiss – just ….

           • Wow talk about the pot calling the kettle black…..

             Thanks Carol.

           • Competition = yep you gotta go!

             • LOL….never thought of that!!!

           • That was probably the reason TA gave Jodi for the roommate leaving in the middle of the night… 🙄 …pfft…but it’s doubtful that was the REAL reason. TA had a way fabricating lies to make everyone else out to be the bad guy and glorifying himself in the process. ie (Jodi stalking him) TA was more than likely the reason the roommate took off. Maybe he discovered TA’s secret and TA threatened his life…who would want to sleep under the same roof with someone who threatened your life? That is the most likely reason he left in the middle of the night…out of fear.

             • See there is always several ways at looking at things. . .Dorothy you might be exactly right! He would want him gone immediately if he had knowledge of TA and his conquests. SICK SICK SICK! He might have been a pedophile but he certainly was a abusive predator also. He even said so in his own words. TO JODI: “You just might be my next victim.”

             • Journee, the “Get home free lie” is just that these detectives are allowed to lie to the public to try to trick them into incriminating themselves, but you’d better not be lying back to the law!

               You know, Journee, it really bothers me the way Det Flores son died in that scouting activity. There are so many deaths surrounding this trial I have lost count, but they all seem suspicious to me. A whole lot of people been breaking a whole lot of rules. It just strikes me that, right out of “The Godfather” and that prize stallion’s head in the bed _ someone was getting very ticked off and wanted to send a significant message to some certain category of people who been getting too far out of line.

               My jaw is dropping anew, as these stories accumulate about

               “The secret lives – of these Mormon guys.” They are not being who they are supposed to be 🙁

               This is the stuff that all the budding book writers’ “stranger than fiction” novels will be based on: Real Crime!

               Don’t mind me _ I’ve been reading Jon Krakauer’s “Under the Banner of Heaven”. It’s creeping me out pretty seriously. Polygamist, Ron Lafferty has just received his “Removal Revelation” straight from God. Whereby Ron gets his information straight from God about who is interfering with God’s plans, and needs to be “REMOVED” p e r m a n e n t l y _ so the Lafferty brothers go “hunting” with their knives and their bludgeons and their guns . . . god tells them who he needs to have removed . . .
               set around 1983 _

       • Different guy.

         The one who left in January wasn’t kicked out. He left on his own in the middle of the night. For some reason Jan 28 sticks in my head. I THINK Lisa gave Flores information about it.

       • So? Flores never interviewed:

         1. Dustin James Thompson, (Ashley Thompson’s tip);

         2. John Hepworth,
         (The midnight escapee _I’d bet TA put a move on him) TA did protest too much in the “letter” that he was NOT a faggot)

         3. OR this new name _Thomas Brown?

         Shouldn’t “We The People” get a refund or something?

         There is something very fishy about Flores. Now that we’re this far down the road, the cumulative do nothingness is glaring like the equinox sun in our eyes. Who can forget him sitting like an inflated dummy doll next to Martinez for endless days during the trial(s)? and Yes, he DID do one of those “get home free” detective lies to Sky.

         I’m itching with curiosity as to why so many of our group are seriously convinced that Flores would NEVER lie to the Hughes’. Did I somehow read them all wrong?

         Looks like three musketeers_Martinez, Flores, and HORN!

         • Yes, seabird, thank you – John Hepworth was the roomie that moved out in the middle of the night in January.

           what’s a ‘get home free’ lie?

           I don’t put it past Flores to lie to anyone.

         • I remember some where down the line they were compared to the 3 Stooges. 😉
           Flores = Inflated Dummy Doll ♥ Spot on.

     • Everything that happened in that house was questionable. From the midnight ‘sprinter’ roommate to the roommates that ‘see nothing/hear nothing/smell nothing’ to the clueless friends that it took them 5 whole fucking days to find their ‘buddy’… And let’s NEVER forget the suspicious 3 suicides that were connected to travis and Jodi – one way or another… smells like a whole lot of bullshit trying to be masked with some cheap patchouli, if you ask me.

       • Pandora, why are we are the only ones who can put 2+2 and come up with 4??

         • Cindy, unfortunately, the haters are so blinded of hatred that they wouldn’t recognize true facts if they hit them upside their head. It’s really sad. Nobody asked anyone to love or care or support Jodi. What everybody is being asked to do is to be reasonable, to acknowledge the facts and to be fair. Nothing more. They can keep on hating Jodi for as long and as much as they want but how long will they keep lying to themselves and turning a blind eye to the truth?

           • Pan, let them be blinded by the lies that are being feed to them. If they want to be led around by their noses and told how to think and what to say, there is know hope for them. I’m willing to bet that 85% of them didn’t even watch the first trial. It shows by the stupid comments they make.

             I’m just floored and laugh at the fact that they can just look at the letter that TA wrote to Jodi and say it was forged. My God I even went out and found a few samples of Jodi handwriting to compared to before I said anything. I knew Jodi didn’t write it!!! It’s as plain as the sky is blue that TA wrote it.

             OK my rants over….

   • When was it that Bishop Parker testified? IIRC_That “peer” of TA’s had said to TA: “You are not being who you are supposed to be. If I reported this to the Bishop, you would be homeless.”

     • The bishop testified on 1/28. I’ll probably try to watch that piece of testimony tomorrow if I have time.

       • Thanks, OutThere.

         We need Dr. Geffner to make a “Chart” for us. A whole lot of shenanigans is piling up high and deep at the end of January 2008, including this Confession letter dated Jan 21st.
         2008 is also when the ONLY legitimate mirror image was created of the 2008 hard drive of TA’s computer. (That seems to be under the carpet for now.)

4. Thank you SJ for these great comparisons. First I compared Jodi’s style to TA’s and they are so different and both have their own uniqueness that it would be extremely challenging to forge even a signature let alone ten pages worth. TA prints upper case, with lowercase e’s and i’s, and his i’s are very unique to him. Jodi usually writes, with an occasional printed first letter. TA and Jodi’s capital I’s are different. Even the way that they strike out their mistakes are different, with Jodi using horizontal lines to cross out, and TA using rounded squiqqles to obliterate the word. TA also had problems with his grammar and spelling.

   For me, it is obvious that it is TA.

5. For anyone who turns their heads without even looking at this letter and after hearing the sex their is no hope for them.
   How many more things have to line up for someone to even question it.

   So now it is stated that the letter was sent anonymously to who Sandy, the DT?? I guess at this point it doesn’t matter how or whom received the letter.

   I just pray that who ever TA’s victim / s was that they are getting help and not from a bishop.. Lift rug and sweep…

   • Sex tape…..

   • I do hope TA’s victim/s are seeking help in dealing with such horror. I also hope he/they don’t end up doing the same thing to little boys.

     • If their last names start with a H we can guess they aren’t getting any help at all. Too busy selling books!

6. I’m not going into my thought’s that I haven’t deterred from for over 2 years. It’s not that I can’t open up my mind to anyone else opinion. God knows I hoped I was wrong because that would mean a child would not have been his victim.

7. BB, Coldcase, whomever else asked, I’m really trying to finish up watching Dr. Geffner, but I’m having a TON of issues on Beth Karas’s site getting the videos to play. They just shut off for no apparent reason and then, won’t play, after that. What a lousy server she has (SJ, she really needs you to offer to become her web developer LOL.) And if I reload the page, I have to start from the beginning because the fast forward rarely works. Very frustrating! There are 3 separate videos from the day you all mentioned 1-21 (which is why I asked for a timeframe), and I haven’t even gotten all of the 2nd one to play yet. (Yes, it’s THAT bad.)

   • I believe that it was Jan 20 am tweets that Carol had posted….but it sounds like it is impossible to review on that site….

     • Crap, I might be listening to the wrong day then. Beth Karas doesn’t have ANY videos from 1/20. Was there court on that day?

       • Yes, Dr. Geff was on direct examination and he was going over all the women that TA had been conversing with.

         • somewhere in this group we had all the girlfriends names printed out don’t ask me where that was years ago

       • And there was a half-day on the 21st.

         • Have you noticed that Geff’s chart and the 12 women thing is all but swept under the rug? There is tons of scary manipulation going on out there.

           What’s the deal with Arpaio and Jody being penalized earlier this week for what her supporters do? A conscription of privilidges that will follow her to Perryville?

           Why nothing about it on the Internet?

           Is it time to crank up security so we can exchange privately.?
           I”ve picked up we have troll monitoring on our site.

   • Yah-hooey!! I just read that CrimeTime is saying he is going to load more videos tomorrow. Fingers and everything else crossed.

8. I think the handwriting is identical. This has removed all doubt from my mind about Travis’ pedophilia. The letter is clearly authentic. There is no way Jodi copy his handwriting as good as that. Jodi is an extremely neat writer and Travis writes like an infant. What more do people need? The fact Travis found “a 12 year old girl’s orgasm” hot makes him a pedophile in my eyes.

   • I agree Michael! But the travis ‘followers’ will NEVER EVER accept that their ‘saint’ (lmfao) was a pedo lover… he admitted it on paper and yet they don’t want to believe it. They are sooo in denial.

     So even documented proof is not good enough for them. They are never satisfied… (shrugging shoulders)

9. Wow! Just listening to Dr. Geffner, I’m blown away. Even though 5 different professionals gave Jodi the MMPI test (which meant she was asked the same questions about 2000 times), her answers were always consistent. He re-tested her — long after the first testing was done.

   But get this, he was the ONLY one who tested her for malingering (in other words, to see if she was lying). Even he seemed surprised by that. He said it’s very standard in a court case to ensure that someone isn’t making themselves out to be a victim, or more of a victim than they really are. But no one looked for it until he (and his staff) did.

   You mean Dr. Death didn’t do that? But wait, wasn’t she THE EXPERT everyone believed? Wasn’t she the consummate professional? I know I’ve read that in the juror interviews and on various sites.

   • They believe Dr. Death because she said what they wanted to hear.

     • Yep Justus, even though she said it in a snarky manner and without having ANY experience upon which to base her opinion. It drives me crazy.

   • They didn’t want to test her for malingering for fear that they would have to report that she was NOT malingering !! Good for Dr. Geffner….I liked him….

10. OMG Martinez tried soooo hard to get Dr. Geffner to testify that he’d seen this letter. This was NOT in the tweets. The tweets didn’t represent what went on in that courtroom AT ALL. After watching the October video where Martinex sooo wanted to get the letter in so he could say Jodi “forged” it and now, listening to him GRILL Dr. Geffner, it’s so disturbing.

    The video stopped in the middle of his horrendous cross. I think I’m glad it stopped. I think I need a break. Martinez triggers my PTSD that I thought I was over. I can’t follow his cross. All his yelling really disturbs me. I don’t even understand why I still react so strongly to yelling, but I do, even after all these years.

    • His yelling disturbs and puts everyone on edge…..it is that bad…..if I were on the stand I would let him know that I will not be yelled at and when he can control himself I will answer the question…Dr. F did a pretty good job of controlling this aspect of JM, she insisted that he allow her to finish her answers….most of the other witnesses never finished their answers bc JM would cut them off as soon as he didn’t want to hear anymore but not Dr. F she battled him and won in my opinion…

    • And that is the very reason I haven’t lost an to the tapes!!!!

    • He is such a disgusting little jerk. He wanted to use his expert handwriting witness in his rebuttal to say that the letters that Jodi’s experts relied on were forgeries, despite the fact that the defence witnesses had never seen the letters, and his expert witness’s report did not reach that conclusion. He also accused Dr. G. of some harassment thing that was obviously just more of his slime.

    • Where is all the action to be found that you are discussing, please? I am lost.
      I am also worried. I think our focus should become more clinical. Just the facts. No emotion, no comments on character, etc. Just what we observe. Not as much fun, but we might last longer.

      • I subscribed to Beth Karas’s site for a month. I think it was $5.99 or $4.99. She has all the trial videos and I thought I wanted to watch them. I do apologize for my emotions. This case hits very close to home for me and it’s tough for me to be clinical.

        • What I am getting at, awkwardly, is I think we, as a cohesive group, are walking a fine line right now. I am actually getting scared at times. We’ve reached a point where we are answering a whole lot more questions, and the more we keep pulling together, the closer we get to sort of “knowing to much.” My feeling is that when we use inflamed terms as opposed to staying factual, it could result in hateful retribution that could make it unsafe to discuss together. I’ve felt my heart race several times lately. It gave me a “taste” of what it would be like to loose ones freedom.

11. OMG! I just saw this poem by someone named B. Wilson, accompanying a drawing of Travis standing behind a young woman:

    “You can feel my touch in the gentle breeze and my loving warmth in the sunlight,
    Hear my whispers in the trees and my passion in the storm, I will watch over you.”

    Even the drawing looks like he could be giving her his “touch” and “loving warmth” from behind.

    Puke, puke, puke!

    • I agree Justus….puck is right!!!

      • Are you still talking to your smart phone? 😆 P U K E !!!

        • Yup Puke Puke Puke…lol

    • And they dare to call us delusional? These people have undergone extensive brainwashing!
      HOLY COW!

    • I saw that. The young lady is TAs little sister Allie. I wonder if she’s the one who said he was a scam artist and always asked him for money….?

      • I just figured it would’ve been Tanisha with her hand out. Maybe your right. They aren’t the close knit family that HLN presented are they? SMH Always riding the sympathy train into everyone’s pockets.

12. I think the one thing we have missed in all of this regardless of what you think of KN is that man would never let evidence or accusation into court about paedophilia unless he knew in his core that it was true.
    For the love of God this is what his private practice is. People that have been accused of such things. I’m sure there has to be more that was never brought out.

    I’m still a bit confused as to why he didn’t call Mr. P. Smith back to the stand.

13. Oh I read something from TA’s Journal that was written in April.

    Jodi is gone and Deanna is leaving soon. No more drama.

    I miss Lisa.

    But I thought that SH said that TA loved Deanna?? Hummm now that is real love there Sky. TA told lies to Deanna about Jodi and told lies about Deanna to Jodi. But he kepted both of them around… I’m willing to bet that TA was having allot of sex with Deanna after Jodi left town.

14. In response to Cindy,

    It was not 1/3 of the cake. It was a reasonable slab. The kind a healthy man needs for breakfast. And if eating cake for breakfast is not good for someone, then I maintain people should not make cake. If they don’t want people should eat well, then they might as well only stock the fridge with brussels sprouts. And if you eat cake and there is homemade vanilla whipped cream it stands to reason that has to get eaten too.

    And why people get mad about it is beyond my understanding.

    I’m at least temporarily in the dog house – but this too shall pass.

    • I try so hard to keep ice cream out of my house because from the minute it arrives until it’s all gone it is continuously calling to me – I can barely think about anything else until it’s all gone. So I very quickly eat it all up to get it out of the house, to leave me alone, and then I promise myself I’ll not do that again. But, of course, I do. (I think this may be called “addiction”.)

      • Justus, that is the very reason I do not buy ice cream, chips, or cookies. I’m not a big cake eater so…. but I’m sure if I made one I would eat it.

    • LOL. I think Mrs. Al just wants to keep you around for a while… Well that yard must be pretty clean but perhaps that honey due list is getting longer by the day.

      Now I want to ask you if said cake was perhaps made for company??

      • No cake was made for me, but apparently there is an appropriate time to eat cake and not to eat cake. My argument fell on deaf ears, as it often does.

        My argument was as follows – show me where it says breakfast has to be egg whites and whole wheat toast, or cereal and milk. Especially since cake has all the required ingredients:

        Eggs – check,
        Dairy – check in the cream icing and whipped cream.
        Cereal – in the flour.

        Plus there are omega-3’s in the walnuts, and anti-oxidants in chocolate.

        But that just fell on deaf ears. Oh well. I have learned a long time ago – this is the secret to a happy marriage. I mess up, my wife yells and fixes things and forgives me and then we go on along to the next time. Works great. Of course I have never had a major eff-up because she’s too precious for that.

        • I started to ask you earlier hadn’t you ever seen that episode of The Cosby Show…. you’d have KNOWN those food group arguments would fall on deaf ears.

          Of course, Dr. Huxtable hadn’t just eaten cake for breakfast himself, he’d fed it to the kids. So his punishment was worse than ‘the dog house’. He got THE LOOK. (and THE LOOK, from Felicia Rashaad, can send you crawling under your chair from across the air-waves)

          • Oh Journee I remember that look!!!

      • It’s spring – the season in which a young man’s fancy turns to love, an older man’s fancy turn to fishing season and my wife’s fancy turns to cleaning!

        • That my dear man is called “Spring Cleaning”. Passed down from generation after generation…

          A smart man would plan a business trip or higher a cleaning lady to help out. But I have to also warn you the thing that includes closets also…. So if you have something hanging around that you have had for years…..but your attached to it…humm yet it out of the house soon before it’s either in the Goodwill bag or cut up for the rag bag….

          • Oh I know all about that. Every year the underwear and T shirts I have managed to get into that elegant, comfortable, chic worn-out state vanish. As do shoes that have been perfectly broken in and such.
            It reminds me of the old Ray Romano joke, about how if it wasn’t for their wives men would be walking around with elastic bands around their waists by way of underpants.

            So I get the outside, the garage and the basement. My wife gets the closets and pantry, and we do the floors jointly. We have regular yard service starting in April, but this is the pre-prep. We actually have a cleaning service for the house too but as our son said about his Mom’s peculiarities – Mom has to clean before the cleaning lady shows up.

            Just your average American family trying to do things the way their parents did.

            • Omg is that isn’t the truth. We do clean before the cleaning lady comes. So we are paying someone $100.00 a hour to pretend to clean. Hey you should high jack to clean the basement. What cleaning person doesn’t do floors??

    • Hi Al, all cake aside 🙂 you asked a question yesterday about the difference between the two hard drives – 2008 and 2009 hard drives…well from my memory here it goes:

      2008 hard drive image was made sometime in June 2008 AFTER Flores had already destroyed possible exculpatory evidence at the scene by waking the computer up and doing a hard shut down all WITHOUT A WRITE BLOCKER which was standard protocol ……something up to a possible 3,000 books worth of information was potentially lost by that act……Brady violations

      In addition, this 2008 hard drive was NEVER disclosed or turned over to the DT until nearly 6 years after the fact and only bc it was found out during testimony of one of the state’s forensic examiners (Smith?) ….someone check me on this stuff as I am going off my old memory…..

      2009 hard drive image was made sometime in latter 2009 AFTER Flores (quite the pattern here, huh??) had already destroyed MORE POSSIBLE EXCULPATORY EVIDENCE when the first DT arrived to the Mesa PD(June 19, 2009) to review the electronic evidence that had been ceased by Mesa PD….again turning on the computer and doing a hard shut down WITH NO WRITE BLOCKER …..quite a pattern here, huh?? ….more Brady violations….

      Now the state tries to say that it doesn’t matter….that all the same evidence is contained in the 2009 hard drive….this is blatantly FALSE…..the destroyed evidence at the scene is gone…..the destroyed evidence from June 19, 2009 is gone……DESTROYED……so the question is really basic….did the state disclose and turn over all exculpatory evidence and did the DT have the opportunity to examine the pristine evidence at the scene….NO…..and just like Paul mentions below, Jodi’s hard drive was apparently broken and don’t ya know nobody knows how…..quite a pattern, huh??

      The state as well as IDIOT JSS also tries to say – oh well, it doesn’t really matter bc afterall Lonnie Dworkin testified that he did see some porn on the computer and you should have followed up….but what they fail to say is that Dworkin also stated immediately after making that statement that there was none (no porn) when agreeing with the small man jumping up and down and screaming that he stated earlier in deposition that there was none…..Dworkin agreed…..So there was no porn according to ALL testimony….they had destroyed the potential exculpatory evidence and failed to turn over the original 2008 image (which itself was NOT pristine due to tampering and destruction of evidence at the scene)….

      The law regarding this evidence is clear, the state must disclose and turn over all exculpatory evidence and if it doesn’t it is a Brady violation…..it does NOT have to be intentional, but just that the evidence wasn’t disclosed…..IMHO it was all done intentionally as evidenced by the multiple blatant violations and disregard for the law and by the actions and perjured testimony of the state witnesses involved….this case is a virtual supermarket of appellate issues for the higher courts…..

      It all adds up to VACATE, REMAND FOR NEW TRIAL / DISMISS WITH PREJUDICE…..this is not even a close call this is a cake walk (pardon the chocolate cake pun) to the bank 🙂

      • And also don’t forget the burden is NOT on the DT to ask for anything…..the state must voluntarily turn it over…..this is NOT A HIDE AND SEE WHAT YOU CAN FIND GAME !!!!

        • DEBRA MILKE + JODI ARIAS = THE STATE OF ARIZONA

          • Dedicated to Miss Jodi Arias:

            A song of hope:

            AND A NEW DAY WILL DAWN
            for those who stand long
            and the forests will echo with laughter…………

            And as we wind on down the road
            Our shadows taller than our soul
            There walks a lady we all know

            who shines white light and wants to show
            How everything still turns to gold
            And if you listen very hard

            THE TRUTH WILL COME TO YOU AT LAST
            When all is one and one is all
            to be a rock and not to roll

            And she’s buying a stairway to heaven…………Led Zepplin

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHFxncb1gRY

            • ((((BB)))) perfect!!!

            • Thanks BB! The truth will come to you at last! Love it! ♥

      • The stuff on that was lost by Flores’ actions at the crime scene is probably lost to all eternity. However the difference between the 2008 and 2009 images should have been able to show what was wiped out in 2009 and how.

        JSS’s argument about Dworkin is just specious. JM’s questioning of Dworkin was really hinky (the term dworky comes to mind – like it?). He started with a compound question about porn and women’s breats. Dworkin replied yes, then JM asked if about the interview, and Dworkin said he stood by what he said in the interview – but never acknowledged that there was no porn. In fact his only direct statement with respect to the porn was in the affirmative. But see here’s the problem – the mere fact that TA had porn on his computer was of no consequence until JM used it’s alleged absence to call Jodi a liar, and he did that in closing arguments. So he was essentially using an irrelevant fact to do that, and there was no way the DT could have foreseen that specious argument.

        In fact when JM was questioning Dworkin about the porn it was actually with reference to the “Harder, stronger ….” video. Remember his question about whether the salacious nature of the title made it porn, and then he followed it up with his porn question. But the defense was using that video, not to demonstrate porn, but to show that Jodi’s description of TA watching a video with people dancing around with bags on their heads. That was supposed to show when she got there. So JM kind of snuck the porn in and then obfuscated it into a lying type situation.

        The real problem of course is that the DT was asking for the computer disks. The State was saying everything had been turned over, when it hadn’t. Even though the porn may not have been exculpatory in itself it became exculpatory as soon as JM blamed Jodi for lying, as did the viruses on those disks. Now if the State had in fact turned over those images, and also notified the DT that there were viruses on those disks, JM would not have been able to make those arguments. So even though it may not have been exculpatory at the onset, that evidence surely became exculpatory after JM was done spinning his yarn, and their failure to disclose it now becomes major – for two reasons.

        Firstly it’s just a plain Brady Violation, but secondly JM’s argument misrepresented evidence and the truth. Evidence he had failed to disclose. I’m not sure whether a claim of ” our experts didn’t find it” counts as a valid excuse.

        But like I often say – what do I know about the law. Things that seem obvious to me seem something completely different to the judiciary in AZ.

        • there are NO EXCUSES when it comes to Brady….PERIOD !! The appellate courts are going to feast on this case and purge…..

          And the semantics about what Dworkin said is a distinction without a difference….he back tracked on his statement and agreed to stand by his deposition testimony….

          Juan Martinez’s name is going to go down in infamy……the appellate courts have had their fill of his misconduct and he will pay a heavy price when they get through with him and so will Maricopa county prosecutor’s office….

          The man is souless IMHO….he doesn’t care anything about the law and justice….just about winning at any costs…..IMHO

          • BB that is music to my ears! I can’t wait to see it happen, thank you for that 🙂

            • Your right Heather sometimes it is great to hear things like that! Thanks BB!

          • Hope you are right.

            Someone needs to put an end to this BS. A trial is supposed to be fair – that’s guaranteed by the Constitution. A prosecutor is supposed to search for the truth not win cases. Intimidating witnesses, threatening them with perjury prosecutions if they testify on behalf of the defense, converting suppositions and speculations into statements of the truth, eliciting patently false testimony from state employees and assorted other such acts of skullduggery (or as SJ calls it douchebaggery) are not how one is supposed to search for truth and justice.

            Someone needs to take this prosecutor’s office to the woodshed, and I hope it happens.

          • So hopefully the higher level judiciary in AZ will take the actions necessary to put an end to this sort of turpitude on the part of the MCAO. They seem to have finally grown some level of a spine in the Milke case, after years of general wussiness. I hope they continue to strengthen that spine.

            I don’t care whether you believe Jodi was guilty or not – every citizen of Maricopa County should have objection to a County Attorney’s office that indulges in this level of turpitude.

            But then I have to remind myself, this is the county that keeps electing Joe Arpaio.

    • Al, are you all right? Have you been in the interrigation room with Flores? What can we do to help?

15. When I first started watching this trial, I was so convinced that Jodi was guilty as sin. But as I did my own research into the evidence and the behavior of TA, it became more obvious that this was an abusive relationship. The way hln reported the story was to make everyone hate Jodi as much as possible. Why? Because hate sells.

    The evidence that Jodi came up with a ridiculous plot to kill TA is so full of obvious problems;

    * If Jodi “staged” the burglary at her grandparents house, why would she break in via the side door? The door was obviously kicked in…that would make so much noise that people in the neighborhood would look out their windows to see what the noise was, and see Jodi (who they’d recognize) kicking the door. Preposterous!!

    Also, in the unredacted interview with Troy Hayden, Jodi said that she took pictures at the Buddhist temple that she was at with her sister during the time of the burglary. Those pictures were time stamped, proving she was out of town during that time. The pictures were on her hard drive that was broken somehow, and Nurmi never persued it. There was obvious exculpatory evidence that was missed!!

    • Paul, Just in case you haven’t seen it yet, here are 22 questions that scream for answers:

      1. Why stage the gun theft as a burglary such that the police are immediately called and a record is created? Why not just “borrow” it? It might not be discovered missing for months and it probably wouldn’t be known exactly when it went missing.

      2. Why, in her master plan to murder, would she change out the bullet type for one less powerful?

      3. Why visit friends in the rental car if its purpose was to travel in a car not connected with her?

      4. Why borrow gas cans from someone who will mention them to someone, should he ever be questioned? Why not buy gas cans with cash in no-man’s land or in some large store where she’d be just one of many customers?

      5. Why tell Ryan she’s on her way if she’s already planning a six hour trip to Mesa and then at least another 10 hour trip to Salt Lake City? What kind of alibi is that?

      6. Why go to the trouble of removing license plates to hide her presence at Travis’ house when it would have been infinitely easier to just drape something over them or park down the street? Wouldn’t a missing license plate draw even more attention to the car?

      7. Why didn’t she kill him upon arrival at 4 am? She’s already going to be late getting to her so-called alibi.

      8. Why didn’t she shoot him (or quietly slit his throat) during the night when he was sleeping? Why wait until he’s fully awake with the capacity to then kill her instead?

      9. Why have sex with him and leave her presence all over the crime scene?

      10. Why have him take time-stamped photos of her and then not think to take the camera with her? While he was taking those pictures, was she really supposedly thinking “I’d better throw that camera in the washing machine before I leave”?

      11. Why would she first attack a man who has 16-1/2 inch biceps and at least 70 pounds on her using a knife if she supposedly came with a gun?

      12. Why, if she planned to stab him in the shower, does she not do it during the 40+ seconds he is standing with his back to her?

      13. Why after supposedly stabbing him in the shower does she let him go stand at the sink?

      14. If Travis had enough in him to go from the shower to the sink, stand there turning the faucet on and off while Jodi is supposedly stabbing him in the back, why didn’t he just turn around and smash her a good one?

      15. How would anyone, except the one who is controlling the attack, have the option to stop, stand at the sink and mess with the faucet?

      16. If he still had enough energy to travel down the hallway to the bedroom, why didn’t he just use that energy to stop all the stabbing she was supposedly doing during that time period?

      17. Why did Travis have only five relatively minor wounds on his hands, only one on his dominant hand, and none on his lower arms if he was supposedly defending himself against a knife attack for more than a minute and perhaps up to two minutes?

      18. Upon leaving why wouldn’t she have noticed the license plate was upside down while supposedly screwing in those little fasteners? Wouldn’t it be more possible for someone to notice her squatting behind the car thus drawing even greater attention to her presence? Certainly more likely than anyone noticing and remembering a license plate.

      19. Why does she make cell phone calls in Arizona heading north from Kingman toward Hoover Dam, thus negating the supposed reason for borrowing the gas cans or turning off the cell phone?

      20. Why does she fill the cans in Salt Lake City if their purpose was to hide her trip into Arizona? Was she also hiding her trip from her so-called alibi home to Yreka?

      21. How is it Jodi supposedly came up with the most idiotic murder plan in history (a twelve-year-old could have devised a more intelligent plan than that) but was also apparently able, with all her “caginess”, to fool three experts with more than 90 years of collective experience in their respective fields?

      22. If Jodi was planning to lie about the whole thing under oath on the stand, why during those 4+ years didn’t she come up with a reasonable scenario about what happened during those final moments? (I came up with one within about ten minutes of viewing the crime scene. And I wasn’t even there.)

      • These certainly are pertinent and profound questions, Justus.
        Ones the First Jury should have asked, and never did.
        Most of my answers to your questions being: ‘she didn’t’ or ‘she wouldn’t’.

        Judge Stevens has to have asked herself similar questions and have similar answers.
        That should leave the Judge in a quandary as to what to do in the name of Justice.
        How can she not see that there are significant errors in the case?
        How can she not do the correct thing and dismiss with prejudice.

      • Maybe we should forward your list to JSS. She seems to need help. . .sidebar…..

    • That is interesting Paul, I wasn’t aware of that at all.
      Just one piece of exculpatory evidence not looked into, among many others! The defense’s behavior simply confuses me, and bothers me.

      • Carol Handy,

        Edgar..rrr Longenecker has implied that the State has used $2million to “improve” the way the defence handles this case. I believe this to be true.

        BTW, who moved the sandbox? From where is everybody discussing? I can’t catch up!

    • Paul, I watched the ‘RAW’ video last week and the only thing that kept coming to my mind was: Why the hell didn’t troy hayden release the whole interview back in 2013? It makes me despise him even more because he was acting like a male version of nancy grace: Doing anything possible to make Jodi look like a cold-hearted evil person.

      The emotions that Jodi expressed during the interview were impossible to be an act. NOBODY can act that well! You’d have to be an Oscar winning actor to do such an awesome job.

      So people can say whatever the hell they want and keep believing that Jodi is cold-hearted because that’s what they want to believe. Truth is, Jodi is a sweetheart. A loving, graceful, generous beautiful (inside and out) human being. Her only fault was loving an abuser…

      • Don’t forget a pedophile, Pandora!!!

16. Speculating a bit here, but got to thinking about the whole motion to withdraw and putting it together with the last chance to get JSS to do something about this farce of a trial. This probably also explains why the motion is sealed.

    It’s obvious that Nurmi has no reason to withdraw. In the worst case all he has to do is show up in court for one day, and possibly make a pre-sentence statement arguing for leniency. So this is no big burden. Why would he want to withdraw at this stage. Someone suggested that it might have to do with an appellate attorney, but I’m not sure that really makes sense. The DT has already transmitted a letter of intent to appeal and it seems the relevant court has accepted jurisdiction. Seems like thenotice of intent is filed with the Clerk of the Superior Court of Maricopa County within 14 days of the “sentence”. The appeal needs to be filed within 40 days of the notice. (to answer StillOutThere’s question the length of the initial appeal in a non-death sentence is limited to 14,000 words, replies and responses are limited to 7,000 words).

    Now here’s what I’m left wondering about. Some sort of an appeal was filed, actually a day before the declaration of the mistrial. Don’t know what that was, but jurisdiction was accepted. But if that was some sort of criminal case appeal, then the brief is due within 40 days of the notice. Now 40 days from 3/4/2014 when that appeal notice was filed is actually the day of the sentencing hearing. Assuming that notice of appeal (and this is merely speculation) has something to do with ineffective assistance of counsel (in which I concur with StillOutThere as being an obvious cause), it would seem that needs to be filed by some attorney other than the one being blamed for the ineffective assistance of counsel (to avoid an obvious conflict of interest). Now in order to do that the appellate attorney must be the official attorney of record for that action. However it would seem illogical to have two sets of official attorneys, one of whom was basing an appeal on the incompetence or ineffectiveness of the other. So if we have an appeal based on the performance of KN and JW some other attorney would have to file it. In order to do so that attorney has to be the attorney of record and KN and JW have to go. And hence the motion to withdraw.

    Just thinking aloud, but this could explain it. The question of course is what was that notice of appeal filed on 3/4/2015 all about. I have no idea, and I have no idea why it was filed prior to the verdict (or mistrial) was even announced, and why did some court accept jurisdiction, prior to a sentence being delivered?

    Figure this might open a discussion, and some one may know something, or we can all just speculate, and try figure out possibilities.

    • Hi Al, my best guess would be that any appeal filed on 3/4 would have to do with Judge Stephens’s modified jury instructions (the Allen charge). There are different types of appeals. Any order of the court can be appealed during the case (while the case is ongoing). And then, there a final appeal can also be filed from the final order of the court.

      Thanks for looking up the rules regarding criminal appeals in AZ. Do they require a 14 pt font and double spacing? (I think I would have preferred a word limit to a page limit when I worked on my appeal. The page limit in FL also included the TOC, citations, and the certificate of service, so it was very limiting.)

      Just so you know timewise, all courts will almost always grant an extension of time to file the initial (some states call it the “opening”) brief — it’s virtually automatic, if requested, so don’t be surprised if that happens. Also, they will grant a request to extend time for the answer brief to be filed (by the other side — in this case, if Jodi is the appellant, that would be the state) so again, that could drag out the process further as attorneys usually take advantage of all possible extensions.

      Also, the record (court transcripts) must have been transmitted to the appellate court before they will even begin to review the briefs and the appellant pays for that (Jodi, as an indigent, may be able to request those fees be waived). There is typically a time limit on that process as well. You may have also looked that up, but I haven’t so please fill us in. (In some states, the appellant is also required to provide the appellee with an entire copy of the transcript and phew, that gets expensive because the court then charges all over again to make a damn copy! I actually had to fight that one in my appeal because FL law did NOT require me to provide him with transcripts, but his jerk of an attorney tried to argue that it did. I found the entire process somewhat comical since the appellate court was located literally a short drive from the actual court that “housed” the transcript, and we live in a digital age, but it was somewhat of a nightmare to get the lower court to deliver the record to the higher court! Ugh!)

      After the appellant files the initial brief and the appellee files an answer brief, there is usually an optional brief that the appellant can file called a reply brief to essentially counter anything the appellee raised in its answer brief.

      Either side can request oral argument, but it may not be granted. Oral argument is not like a typical court scene, by the way, not at all. Each side is granted a very brief and very specific amount of time to speak to the appellate judges. And then, the judges/justices decide. It’s a very different kettle of fish.

      • Right, that’s what I was wondering as to what that initial appeal was about. Hadn’t thought of the Allen charge, but I guess that appeal would now be moot.

        Yes it does have to be 14 pt (are these judges blind or what?, I’d find it uncomfortable reading something that’s in 14 pt and double spaced, like those large print books).

        They do have requirements for TOICs, and covers, and the like, but the 14,000 word limit is for the body of the brief.

        An indigent defendant is provided attorneys and transcripts as long as their sentence leads to incarceration. If not – they’re on their own.

        And then of course it follows the way you said. The appellant’s response to the appellees reply is at the discretion of the court, so they could say that’s it after the first pass around. The court can also ask for supplemental information. Oral arguments are also at the discretion of the court.

        There seems to be a process that allows for a request for an expedited appeal, but I don’t know if that’s granted for regular appeals, unless there is some reason for expedient action.

        • Good point on the font size and double spacing, but I guess if all you do is read briefs, your eyes start to hurt. Typically, the judges/justices don’t even read the briefs anyway. Their clerks (who are lawyers or law school graduates) read them and check that the case law is correct. Then, they submit a “report” or briefer brief (LOL) to the judges/justices assigned.

          Wow, so in AZ a reply brief is at discretion of the court, NOT the appellant? That really sucks! I was limited to 15 pages, 14 point font, double spaced, for my reply brief. It was really tough to get what I needed into that few pages, but that brief was very important.

      • Given I hadn’t thought of the Allen Charge issue, which would have been a coercion of the jury type issue for sure, I wonder why Nurmi wants to withdraw at this stage.

        Back to whether a different attorney can file an ineffective assistance of counsel motion with JSS prior to sentencing, in a last ditch effort to avoid having to go through an appeals process. It would probably fall into the class of good college try, with nothing to lose, since I doubt JSS would ever overturn the guilt phase verdict at this stage, given she has had numerous chances to do so on the basis of solid issues such as perjury, Brady Violations, etc.

        So once again – what’s up with the motion to withdraw at this stage. One would feel its almost inconsequential given that the current DT doesn’t have much to do with respect to sentencing.

        • Why Nurmi would want to withdraw is about the same as why Nurmi ever wanted to withdraw from the case. He may well have another case. He’s a big shot now. He represented Jodi Arias and “most people” know him now because of that.

          I believe ineffective assistance of counsel may be limited to PCR (haven’t checked the rules though).

    • I could be dreaming, but I think I once read that when a defence attorney drops the ball so many times that his client’s case is in a hopeless mess;

      then the ethical thing for said defence attorney to do is throw up his hands and confess; I tried to do my best, but this case has got the better of me.

      I surrender it to “Ineffectiveness of council.” Plus a bunch of legal stuff, and then get on knees, and plead _ I WANT OUT!

17. I’m not HAPPY!!!! I just looked outside and it’s snowing!!!! Hard!!! 🙁

    Paul, I have always wondered about Jodi’s hard drive also. I know the word on the street was Jodi destroyed it!! But it wasn’t completely destroyed. They were able to extract some things. Who and what I don’t know. Perhaps Journee might recall.

    • Well that’s what you get for living in the frozen north next to Nanook. We had some flurries yesterday, but its 36 today. So spring is coming.

      Remember when I wanted to whup that darned groundhog – looks like a good idea now doesn’t it. I thought he said six weeks. Looks like more than that now.

      • Ha, Ha!!!

    • Grand doggie and I just took a walk and I shot you a big gust of sunshine your way. . .hopefully you will receive it Mon or Tues! Zapped it with my broom!

      • Thanks R.but it’s going to warm up this week. 50dys and even in the low 60dys. 🙂

        • Only because I sent it your way by magic.

18. The entire time all the way from June 14, 2010 to August 15, 2011, the defense was fighting like hell to get the letters admitted.

    ______________________COMPLETE TIMELINE OF LETTERS ACTIVITY_________________

    6-14- 2010 [ First record of any mention of letters ]

    Court received motion to preclude letters. There is no court record of a date where the the request is made to have the letters admitted.

    Oral argument hearing was set for June 18th.

    June 18

    http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/062010/m4272242.pdf

    defense requests more time to respond —– (note whose name appears that has journals)

    7-15

    Court receives defense response ……. was filed UNDER SEAL by request of defense.

    8-5

    Defense requests ex parte hearing regarding original letters – State objects
    Hearing set for Aug 11th.

    8-11

    http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/082010/m4337154.pdf

    10-26

    Defense requests additional discovery regarding assertion letters “submitted to the court” are forged. Aug 11th hearing never happens —–New hearing scheduled Nov 18th

    11-18

    Discussion held regarding State’s objection to request for additional discovery by the defense because State asserted letters submitted were forged.

    Court orders that any additional information obtained regarding the letters shall be disclosed.

    JAN 13, 2011

    Defense files SUPPLEMENT to original response (again under seal)
    http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/012011/m4552369.pdf

    2-25

    Court reflects that State is waiting for report on inspection of the letters and hands (?) analysis.
    Court speaks on the phone with expert and determines report will be completed by 3-18.

    (Nurmi advises court he is leaving Public Defender’s Office)

    7-11

    Stephens replaces Judge Duncan

    8-8

    Jodi goes pro per

    8-15

    Jodi says I’m over my head and attorneys are reinstated.

    State’s motion to preclude letters granted due to objection withdrawn.

    12-22

    Victoria’s motion submitted Dec 16th to quit case granted

    I’m not so sure there was harmony and agreement between Nurmi and Victoria about dropping the fight to keep the letters in. It’s very possible she wanted to keep fighting Martinez’ motion to preclude.

    It doesn’t seem to me like she was pleased with the direction Nurmi was taking the case.

    • Wasn’t Washington’s motion to withdraw based on a conflict of interest? As opposed to a conflict with Nurmi, I mean.

      • Yes it was, but I think it’s very possible she didn’t agree with him on this and many things. And he overrode her, as lead counsel.

        • Well, I know she didn’t agree with the self-defense strategy, because she went public with her dissenting opinion on that.

          • Wow, Journee, did she really? Was she interviewed?

            • No – she engaged in some post guilty verdict Facebook conversations.

              And I’m not on Facebook so I didn’t see them or have access to them, but a Jodi hater screen-shotted them for his blog. You might as well ignore his commentary, but you’ll probably find Victoria’s interesting:

              http://justdatruth2012.blogspot.com/2013_11_01_archive.html

              • Wow! I just saw this link and read it. How weird is it that these Travis supporters find every darn thing out there. And then, you get the most outspoken of the Jodi supporters commenting there too.

                Unfortunately, I did read that guy’s “commentary.” I wonder if that’s true that she denied Nurmi’s visits?

                I’d really love to sit down and have a chat with Victoria Washington. Then again, I wonder if that’s really her. Attorneys don’t usually make that many typos and grammatical errors. Hmm. Thanks for sharing that.

                • sounds like you haven’t been reading Nurmi’s motions, lol

                  I keep telling people that Nurmi must not have a secretary, that all of his filings are done with VR software because the errors are so typical of voice-to-text – but they’re definitely a mess!

                • Oh good point. His motions have soooo many typos. I can’t believe he doesn’t have a staff to proof them.

                • I’ve always wondered WHEN Jodi confessed.
                  I read #1 and 2 nothing about Jodi confessing.
                  Then right after they say a plea for Jodi for 2nd degree because
                  of the embarressment of Travis to the Alexanders.
                  I guess then the Alexanders said here’s our money ticket, right?
                  Anyway of course that was denied.
                  As has everything else been that would even start to spare Jodi prison time.

                  When Jodi told them about the intruders, the detective told her no one would believe that story,
                  She didn’t ever confess to anything until she was convinced that was what
                  sh had to do.

                  Where and when and WHY did Jodi actually admit to killing TA?

    • Thank you so much for laying this all out, Jade….

      After I watched the hearing video from 2014 (see my long post from yesterday’s page) it was clear that KN was trying to stop JM’s inappropriate use of this subject matter in front of the jury to try to discredit his expert witnesses…..it is very convoluted…..just like JM is convoluted in everything he does

      The letters are real and never should have been precluded in the first place….

    • So Sky Hughes held those journals for over two years? Weren’t the investigators interested in them, or did Sky just forget to mention that she had them?

      • Those two are up to the eyebrows in putting evidence out of reach of the defense.

        I’d like to see them hooked up to a polygraph. And I’d like to prepare the questions. We’d see if they wanted to go on Drew and talk about those results.

        Remember she was feeding Martinez daily “impeachment” blather while watching the trial and during the trial, and then she was a witness.

        More mindboggling error of that pinhead judge who can’t even say the word defendant right.

        • Did you know also that the Mesa PD allowed family and friends to enter into the house on that Friday June 13 (just days after the discovery of TA’s body) to gather personal items and do God knows what??? I guess it was a free for all with the evidence scene….I don’t know but this sounds nuts to me to allow people to trample in on a crime scene just days after the discovery unless in just a few short days they were completely done with gathering and ceasing evidence in that house….

          • Friday the 13th, huh. 😯 Fitting.

          • I thought it was just the roommate that could get their stuff out. The didn’t even a change of clothes or their magic underwear……

            • That may have happened immediately upon the police coming in….what I was talking about occurred a couple of days later where friends and family were allowed into the scene to gather personal belongings…and I suppose that would be okay as long as the investigation was over….but just a few short days like that on a case like this I would imagine they still had stuff to check out in that home…so it seems nuts to me to allow that to happen…

              • BB I read someplace not long ago that it was a few days before the roommates could go back into the house. That makes sense to me because I’m sure they went to their rooms also.

                But you are right that does not seem like it rather soon. I wonder if someone cleaned up a few things before the family went in. I’m not a fan of the family but I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.

      • Maybe she was the forgery expert. 😆 You know it takes time to go over those kind of things.

      • Good questions there Justus. Flores had his killer. He wasn’t looking any further. So no, he wasn’t at ALL interested in them. And yeah, I guess it slipped Sky’s mind to say she had them for a couple of years. Damn it, there’s all these people who love her soooo much. Can’t one of them ask her to answer an actual question that has relevance?

        • They don’t ask her because they know better. IMO They are afraid of her, who wouldn’t be? Goosebumps here.

      • Why didn’t Nurmi ask her about them?

        Let’s start this whole MESS over.
        There is someone sitting in jail waiting to hear from
        this judge what Jodi’s punishment will be.

        Everything should be put out there.

        Let’s get what investigation they can by starting all over to find the truth.
        Throw this mess of lies and coverups out.
        It’s been done before and IF case calls for it to be done again, IT sure is this one.

        If the hughes want to talk, get them in an interrogation room.
        I hope SKY can do head stands because it isn’t easy being
        interrogated.
        It isn’t as esay as being on HLN and you fdon’t get paid for it.

        How can any of this be right. They are the ones that should be locked up, IMHO!

    • I know but then all of a sudden they withdrew their objection to the states stand. And now of course, the judge grants the states motion to preclude.

      That’s the part that has always mystified me. Why after fighting so hard did they suddenly just roll over, on the very day the attorneys were reinstated?

      • I would love to see video of those oral argument hearings.

        We have to assume 2 things:

        A) Jodi sure wouldn’t have let them be requested for an exhibit if she had the SLIGHTEST reason to believe they were faked. Especially after the way she was wrangled into being on trial for her life.

        B) Nurmi already had them authenticated to a degree of certainty.

        Nurmi backs down on bluffs. It goes hand in hand with why didn’t we see Smith and Fonseca as they were scheduled a few weeks ago. Martinez had to be sweating that more than any testimony in the whole trial. It was about to expose the perjury in all its glory.

        That was like taking the football to six inches from the goal line and then handing the ball over to the other team–saying you decided you didn’t want the touchdown.

        Smith had been working for a month pulling the goodies out of that hard drive.

        What the hell happened there? I still definitely want that answer. Nurmi is good at preserving the motions and objections for record and that’s it !

        • Jade,

          Some of these actions have always mystified me. Can an attorney really be that dumb? I mean he made it through law school (albeit from Wyoming where his classmates could quite likely have been a moose, an elk and a heifer).

          It seems like these guys just couldn’t carry a thought or action through to conclusion.

          Sometimes I wonder if at some stage he didn’t just look at this thing and say this is slipping away and I’m going to screw it up so royally that no one in his right mind will not overturn for ineffective assistance of counsel.

          Of course StillOutThere has a theory that says he was just a burnt out PD who didn’t want to be there, and just didn’t give a hoot till it was too late.

          • Could it have been due to the fact that Smith wasn’t available within the time restraints that JSS set? I can you understand not having Dr. F again but Smith??? He had to have had more.

          • I think Victoria is going to write a book after the sentencing and I have a suspicion we’ll learn a lot from that book.

            I was also surprised that there was “temporary” counsel appointed for Jodi March 11, 2011 when Nurmi made his motion to withdraw. Since he wasn’t released from the case, that’s interesting to me. Nurmi didn’t like that either apparently.

            I also think Duncan would have been a good judge. Too bad we ended up with a Gracie Allen with the brains of Paris Hilton.

            “I am for the death penalty. Who commits terrible acts must get a fitting punishment. That way he learns the lesson for the next time.”

            • Isn’t she going to find her hands somewhat bound by attorney-client privilege. I guess she can dump on KN and all that sort of stuff, and comment on strategy after she left, but a lot of what happened on her watch are probably bound by that privilege.

              • Yes, she won’t be able to disclose what Jodi told her ever. But she can give a lot of insight into the internal goings-on and I believe will.

                As an ex-attorney of record, she won’t be bound by any more restrictions than that.

              • Jodi can waive her attorney-client privilege if she wishes. That’s how Jose Baez did it for his book.

                • I was about to ask if that was possible. Thanks for answering my question! 🙂

            • She specifically said she would NOT write a book.

              When she speaks it will be in evidentiary hearings to argue the injustices committed in this case.

              • Oh, well that’s even better.

                • yeah – sucks that we probably won’t get to hear it though

          • OMG Al, I just roared out laughing at your comments about Nurmi’s law school classmates.

            And yes, yes, yes, that is the biggest problem with this case (as I just said lower down on the page in regards to Willmott). This case was a death penalty case with a very conservative jury who believe in the death penalty. The defense had points alright but they could NOT for the damn life of them, get them across. I have to listen 3-4 times to get their points. The jury only heard things once. I’m determined to find the point. The jury were taken away from their normal lives and bored to pieces by this ridiculously long trial. Martinez got up, made his damn points, drilled them home, and sat down. He might well be a buffoon, but he knows his audience. You have to give him that much, even if you hate him as much as I do. Nurmi & Willmott are BORING and drag everything out to the nth degree. Ugh!

            Could you just imagine if Jodi had a defense team that acted like Martinez? Or heck, just a team who could actually make an effing point once in a while?

            And yes, I think of Nurmi as a burned out PD, typical of some I went to law school with. He wanted off this case and someone should have let him go. But Willmott, she’s another story altogether. And she learned nothing between the first and second trial. She seems to care more about how she looks than anything else. UGH! ARGH!

            • Jennifer is also apparently an instructor of other attorneys. I hope they don’t take her advice. She’s way too deferential and has no ability to lead witnesses into traps and then get the Kodak moment. NONE.

              Jennifer muffed it royally with Horn.

              • Well Jade, you know the old saying. Those that can do. Those that can’t, teach. (No offense to teachers — I mean this in regards to lawyers.)

19. I just don’t understand why that letter was considered hearsay (if that was the reason it wasn’t admitted into evidence). The other letters from TA to Jodi were admitted. I would understand if the reason was lack of relevance or something. There is NO DOUBT that TA wrote that letter when the handwriting samples of his are compared. It is MORE than obvious. Also, the subject matter is not at all typical. Who would dream up those words if they weren’t true?!

    • No reason seems to have been given in public, so who knows.

20. Someone may have mentioned this already but did anyone notice in those letters he prints with capital letters except the vowels will be lower case? i.e. WiTH, THeM, WHiCH, CHiLD…blatantly obvious that this is a trait of HIS…not so easy to forge that with such consistency.

21. Even prior to day one, the prosecutors were spewing aberrant fabricated lies even to the Grand Jury to get the indictment.

    From the probable cause report presented to the grand jury ……..

    …”During the search for fingerprints, a small latent print was found at the entrance of the bathroom hall at waist level. the print was in blood and was near several blood swipe marks in that same general area.” LIE !

    …”On 6-26-08, the latent print left on the bathroom wall in blood had been identified. LIE

    …”The print was left either by Jodi touching a bloody wall with her left palm or she touched the wall with a bloody hand.” OUTRIGHT LIE.

    There was no handprint in blood and no bloody palm of Jodi touching a wall. Testimony in the trial, much to the chagrin of the little Hitler, was that it was a biological mixture of DNA. And that was it!

    There wasn’t even enough of the DNA from Jodi or Travis to develop a full DNA “profile” according to the DNA Mesa PD specialist (Jodi Legg). All she was able to determine was that Jodi was the major contributor and Alexander was the minor contributor of the DNA. But they peddled that bold faced lie that Alexander’s blood was on Jodi’s hand endlessly even in the grand jury.

    It’s even very interesting to see the demonstration of how the “palm” print was left. Heather Connor demonstrated that it was only the “edge” of the hand, or what might be called the “heel” touched the wall. The hand was never pressed flat against the wall.

    Let’s review ….. https://youtu.be/_mG-HoiBA1k?t=10294

    It could only be implied by the evidence fixers that she placed her hand against the wall for leverage as she was dragging him back down the hallway and that’s when the print was left. But it is much more likely that you would put your hand FLAT against the wall if you were doing that for maximum leverage and not just the edge of your hand. The edge of your hand would “slip” on the wall.

    However I do think this is very likely: When she was running down the hallway trying to get away from Alexander, she had to process instantly which way she was going to turn. Either try to go left and out the bedroom doors which open inward–and due to those few seconds delay was why Alexander caught her before–or turn to the right and go into the closet.

    When she decided to go right, she could have very easily used the edge of her palm to “push” off and turn her in that direction. Moving at some speed, the floor would be slippery in socks and it would help to do that.

    That is the exact area where she would have used her palm in that way, matching the height of the print, where it was at the end of the hallway, and the way you WOULD use the edge of your hand. I think this is very reasonably possible when the print was made.

    It’s possible the grand jury would have had a different view of handing down the indictment if that lie of a handprint in blood hadn’t been blatantly presented as fact.

    The fix was already in.

    • Exactly ! LIES, LIES, LIES, AND MORE LIES………..”A house of cards” as Kirk Nurmi put it………

22. Brady (3) elements

    1. There must be evidence that is favorable to the defense, either because it is exculpatory or impeaching.

    2. The government must have willfully or inadvertently failed to produce the evidence. A defendant doesn’t have to make a request for exculpatory or impeachment evidence

    3. The suppression must have prejudiced the defendant.

    ______VERY IMPORTANT_____

    In a case U.S v. Dupuy .. “Where a defendant doesn’t have enough information to find the Brady material with reasonable diligence, the state’s failure to produce the evidence is considered suppression. And in a case Kyles v. US, it suffices that there be ” a reasonable” probability of a different result” as to either guilt or penalty. It isn’t necessary to find that the jury would have come out differently.

    Due Process

    Imposes an inescapable duty on the prosecutor to disclose known , favorable evidence rising to a material level of importance. Favorable evidence includes both exculpatory and impeachment material that is relevant either to guilt or punishment.

    • Precisely.

    • I just hope someone at the Appeals court cuts this prosecutor’s office down to size. They seem to have lost all sense of propriety what with all the elicited perjury, Brady violations, witness intimidation, misrepresentation or mischaracterization of evidence, and general no-goodness.

23. What’s more is that the writing screams at you at being Travis’, an expert really wasn’t wanted! I have studied Graphology and it definitely was his writing, gosh, no one could get away with copying normal looking handwriting, they sure as hell wouldn’t get away with Travis’ scrawl. In any case a good expert would always have said the writing Was his, it’s not easy to fool an expert, if he isn’t corrupt, that is..

    At the end I really don’t think it would have made one scrap of difference to the jurors what they saw, they were death qualified and they were going to vote for death. All but one, who stood her ground and refused to be bullied by the rabid 11, and I thank her from the bottom of my heart.

    • Crime Times Vids will post the rest of the vidios tomorrow.

    • SJ,

      Is there any way we can get the videos linked to the posts for each particular day? It would, first off, put them in some sort of order, and it would be interesting to see what the tweeters were saying as opposed to what was really going on. If it’s a lot of work and/or if there’s any way I can help, let me know.

      • Or are there some sort of copyright issues involved?

        (It would also be interesting to continue posting on the same page after we view the video.)

      • Yes SJ, having the videos split into days and put here at the site would help us compare what we know from the tweets and what we’ll see from the videos.

        I have not watched the videos yet because I heard that they were edited. Is that true? We need the raw version of the trial videos, not what HLN, troy and all the biased freaks want us to see… We all know that they don’t feel it’s fair to be fair… 🙄

24. Even prior to day one, the prosecutors were spewing aberrant fabricated lies even to the Grand Jury to get the indictment.

    From the probable cause report presented to the grand jury ……..

    …”During the search for fingerprints, a small latent print was found at the entrance of the bathroom hall at waist level. the print was in blood and was near several blood swipe marks in that same general area.” LIE !

    …”On 6-26-08, the latent print left on the bathroom wall in blood had been identified. LIE

    …”The print was left either by Jodi touching a bloody wall with her left palm or she touched the wall with a bloody hand.” OUTRIGHT LIE.

    There was no handprint in blood and no bloody palm of Jodi touching a wall. Testimony in the trial, much to the chagrin of the little Hitler, was that it was a biological mixture of DNA. And that was it!

    There wasn’t even enough of the DNA from Jodi or Travis to develop a full DNA “profile” according to the DNA Mesa PD specialist (Jodi Legg). All she was able to determine was that Jodi was the major contributor and Alexander was the minor contributor of the DNA. But they peddled that bold faced lie that Alexander’s blood was on Jodi’s hand endlessly even in the grand jury.

    It’s even very interesting to see the demonstration of how the “palm” print was left. Heather Connor demonstrated that it was only the “edge” of the hand, or what might be called the “heel” touched the wall. The hand was never pressed flat against the wall.

    Let’s review ….. https://youtu.be/_mG-HoiBA1k?t=10313

    It could only be implied by the evidence fixers that she placed her hand against the wall for leverage as she was dragging him back down the hallway and that’s when the print was left. But it is much more likely that you would put your hand FLAT against the wall if you were doing that for maximum leverage and not just the edge of your hand. The edge of your hand would “slip” on the wall.

    However I DO think this is very likely and makes sense to me when the print was made :

    When she was running down the hallway trying to get away from Alexander, she had to process instantly which way she was going to turn. Either try to go left and out the bedroom doors which open inward–and due to those few seconds delay was why Alexander caught her before–or turn to the right and go into the closet.

    She would have been running and when she decided to go right, she could have very easily used the edge of her palm to “push off” and turn her in that direction. Moving at some speed, the floor would be slippery in socks and it would help to do that.

    That is the exact area where she would have used her palm in that way, matching the height of the print, where it was at the end of the hallway, and the way you WOULD use the edge of your hand. I think this is very reasonably possible when the print was made.

    It’s possible the grand jury would have had a different view of handing down the indictment if that lie of a handprint in blood hadn’t been blatantly presented as fact.

    The fix was already in.

    • This is very interesting, Jade, and very enlightening.
      Since there is no blood involved and not enough DNA for a profile, then no further explanation is necessary.
      When the DNA was deposited there and how it was deposited there, is unknown for either Travis or Jodi.
      It could have been Jodi’s DNA and Travis’ DNA and deposited on any date, which makes this evidence questionable at the very least.

      Since it was not ‘a print made in blood’, as the whole world has come to believe it was, it has very little if any evidentiary value.
      The question remains: So, what happened? What was the defense’s response to this? How did it make it into evidence at all? Where was the defense’s expert DNA pathologist, or didn’t they bother to get an expert?

25. Okay, I’m at the point of the video where Dr. Geffner is talking about this woman (Ms. Puff or Ms. Huff or Ms. Cluff?). But, OMG, the way Willmott presents it is soooo boring. She completely lost the plot and even misread texts that Dr. Geffner had to correct her on. I had to listen to one short part 3 times to figure out whether he or she said they liked oral but liked finishing it “all inside” and I still couldn’t figure it out other than it was “incoming” so presumably she said it. And then, he got “turned on” just texting about it. How could the jury have paid any attention to this if I’m completely bored and lost?

    Anyway, she lives in Show Low or whatever it’s called, but is usually in the valley. She is also the one who has kids. He thinks about driving up there and they talk about when her ex has the kids, etc. But it’s soooo boring the way Willmott presents it. She seems to have low self esteem because she worries about him not responding. Meanwhile, although he tells her he’s not responsive because he was at dinner, he was actually meeting with Ari someone or other who texted him that she was “almost there.” Then, this Ms. whatever (the one in Show Low) with kids talks about his clothing line and about having his penis in her mouth, but it should be just put in her. Huh? He then talks about how he has a dirty mind and is all dressed up with nowhere to go, but he’s an anomaly at his age (I think he’s trying to say he’s a virgin to vaginal sex, but likes other types of sexual contact). Dr. Geffner says in this conversation Travis describes himself to this woman as a 30 year old virgin, while the woman wants vaginal intercourse, and that’s obviously not the case. And Travis makes it all out to be a challenge to her to actually “break” him. Dr. Geffner says it’s all manipulation, partly his religion, but he wants oral and anal intercourse, not vaginal. The interesting thing to Dr. Geffner is that Travis is interacting with multiple women on the same level and also having what we know, sexual relations with Jodi.

    That’s about it as regards to this woman except later, maybe her first name comes out “Hailey” “Taylor”???? I just can’t hear it well. I am really lost in all this and had to listen several times over to get that much out of it. Willmott manages to make sex seem like the most boring thing in the world. And her valley girl voice combined with her little giggles and continual mistakes really annoy me. I don’t like Martinez, but at least he manages to make a point when he needs to. He doesn’t just make his point. He drills it in. But Willmott drones on and one (as does Nurmi). Willmott ends up sounding like a silly little girl though. I just don’t get it. I just want to scream at her and say represent your damn client. Make your point. Talking in uber-boring valley girl voice when you’re trying to get the JURY to understand that Travis was sleazy and manipulative … well, it just isn’t working. Really? Dr. Geffner has to correct you because you can’t read? And okay, Ms. Priss Valley Girl, so you find sex boring. But hello! You’re trying to save your client’s life here — or at least, that’s the job you were hired to do — so get the eff over yourself.

    Sorry, folks. I had to interject my personal responses to her questioning Dr. Geffner. He’s great. I respond well to him. As I watch this, I want MORE of him and WAY LESS of Willmott. But like seriously, I’m a liberal feminist who has never lived anywhere remotely like Phoenix, AZ. I am very very liberal socially and there’s nothing at all socially conservative about me — not even when it comes to sex. (Just an example from my life: One of my friends (who is a lesbian) accidentally spat on my boob the other night while talking to me and then touched my boobs to wipe it off. I looked at her and said “Damn you lesbians. You’ll use ANY excuse to touch my boobies.” And then we laughed and fake-touched each other’s boobies — in public — and we also touched my fiance’s non-existent boobies, and he laughed his ass off watching us drunk girls behaving badly. I mean, that’s my life.)

    So, if I’m responding this way to Willmott, wanting to tune out her drone, and getting bored to pieces, wishing Dr. Geffner could talk more and her much much much less, then what was that conservative, death-penalty qualified jury feeling? They were completely tuning her out, that’s what. She couldn’t make a point if her life depended on it. That has always been my problem with Willmott. Make your damn point, woman. You look wonderful. Your suits and shoes are fabulous. Your hair is perfect. But for God’s sake, represent your client. Her life depends on it. You’ll still be wearing your fancy suits next year, but your client will be wearing orange. UGH!

    • Now that’s what I call a bitch slap down…..

    • It’s not just all you said, which is true. She seemed to be completely clueless. If she had blonde hair every stereotypical joke made about blondes would apply.

      I remember just losing it when I watched her questioning Horn and Melendez. She should have had them on the ropes and should have torn each of them a new you know what. Heck, everyone could have done that, but instead she just sort of got them to acknowledge some meek bullshit like ” Yeah this is possible, or that’s possible.” Who wants to hear that kind of lame crap.

      Plus I don’t think these blithering idiots (as in the DT) ever bothered to consult experts in order to prepare for a lot of their cross examination. If they had they would have torn JM’s case to shreds.

      • Omg Al, I remember that day and also your rant.

        • Hey thought you might want to know. I got chocolate cake after dinner, having finished all my chicken, broccoli and brown rice.

          It was eaten and it was GOOOOOOD.

          • So did the saint your married to cut this slice???

            Sounds like your both adjusting to the empty nest quite nicely…How many times do you each call them in a week???

          • Is that all you got, Al? LOL

      • Yes Al, and I’m a blonde, but really, if she was blonde, the haters would have had a field day with it.

        As I’m sure you’ve heard, there is one major rule to being a lawyer. It’s not a “rule” you’ll find in any books. It’s not something your professor will necessarily tell you in law school. But it’s something ANY practicing lawyer will quickly tell you is the GOLDEN rule. NEVER ask a question of a witness if you already don’t know the answer.

        Martinez certainly wasn’t the brightest bulb in his class, I’d bet. But he NEVER asked a question during either trial that he didn’t know the answer to. I can’t stand him, but I have to give him that much.

        I said this during the first trial and I will say it again. The defense failed miserably. While it’s not particularly well known outside of domestic violence circles, there are MANY instances of battered women killing their batterer in a rage. A foundation for that line of questioning could easily have been made in this case. But it was NEVER discussed.

        • ALV started to testify about just what you suggest in your last paragraph. She got half a sentence out and Snarky objected and JSS sustained. It was very hard to get any evidence in this trial with Snarky.

        • A juror question that hinted in that direction got through – don’t remember the question precisely but I remember ALV’s answer, and the expression on Jodi’s face when she said it.

          ALV said that when I battered woman finally fights back, she often doesn’t know when to stop.

          • I remember her saying that now, yes.

    • Thanks for the info StillOutThere 🙂

      • BB, did that help with what you were looking into? I hope you’ll share that with us.

        • I’m still looking into some things but nothing so far…..

26. Question:

    In the Mormon church, after you’ve broken all of their rules, Are you allowed
    just to quit? If not, why?
    IF they get worse punishment, then why haven’t they checked that out?
    Seemd to be what their tradition is, or are they beyond ( the church )
    any punishing?

    • Aly, you can quit any church. But like in TA’s case all of his friends and others in his life were Mormons. We I don’t think the girls was sexing with were….

    • You can quit attending church, remove yourself from ‘fellowship’ with other Mormons. To be actually removed from their rosters takes a good deal of effort and, to hear some tell it, a good deal of arguing and vehement correspondence.

    • Oh they can ex-communicate you. But then, you’re not allowed to speak to anyone that remains in the faith, and that includes your family, friends, etc. And they’re not allowed to speak to you either. So yeah, you can quit, they can “fire” you, but then, you’re out on your own. Lovely, huh?

      • At one time they used to send the blood atonement parties out after you.

        • Hummmmmmm

        • Al, you said “at one time” … meaning up to the early 90s. At least, that’s when they publicly said they no longer condoned blood atonement for ex-communicated members. And no, folks, I’m not talking about the 1890s.

          Blood atonement and/or castration was also considered appropriate for a long time if you would not give up your bride for plural marriage. “He refuses to let other men screw his wife. Damn him, cut off his pecker!”

          • Thanks for the answers.

            Any churches that put that kind of pressure on people IMO
            are all bad.
            There are many churchs you can go to, leave and they say “sorry you left”
            That should be sufficient, if that.

            Other than that IMO they aren’t worth even thinking about even going back
            the second time. So WHY do people put themselves through this kind of
            torture?

            Some cults are pretty small and you hardly hear of them, but the Mormon
            are very large. I guess I just don’t get it.
            I could name a few large ones like that.

            Why do people put limitations on their belief?
            I think in some cases it’s destroying yourself.

            • Good questions, Aly. I wish I had answers for you.

              I’m an atheist and a practicing Buddhist. It’s the only “religion” (in inverted commas because Buddhism is very far from a “religion”) that I can grab onto. It gives me a path and a way of life which I attempt to adhere to. But it doesn’t require perfection.

              I’m not perfect, no one is. I was raised Catholic by my Irish parents, but attended a Church of England school, and lived in an area that was predominantly Jewish, although we also had a large contingency of Indians and Nigerians (such was the make up of London in the 70s). I was often honoured with reading/performing at various Church of England Sunday ceremonies — although it caused my parents to argue about whether or not it was correct. My rather passive father usually won the arguments based on the fact that I was worshiping God, regardless of the denomination. Needless to say, I had no clear cut view of religion growing up. My parents were hardly an example I wished to follow.

              But, in all these “religions” I was exposed to early on in my life, one could “leave” at any time, without penalty. And, better yet, one could also return to the faith, again without penalty. It seems that many of the “newer” faiths do not have such liberal concepts. Two that come to mind (who also preach at one’s door in an effort to convert others) are the Mormons and the Jehovah’s Witnesses — both are “religions” that have history of less than a couple of hundred years.

              At one point in my life, because of my biological father being Jewish, and my early exposure to Judaism, I very seriously considered conversion. Surprisingly, the Jews did not necessarily want me as a convert (on my whim) and I had to fight to earn the right to attend the High Holiday celebrations. I rather respected Judaism because of the lack of force to convert me. Ultimately, I decided it was not right for me. But the process of speaking with a Rabbi and understanding exactly what I had thought might be right for me was very much part of my decision.

              Judaism is an ancient religion, very very ancient. They don’t just “take” new members on a whim. Nor do most Christian denominations — although they do make an interested party feel welcome. The strange part for me is that the “door-to-door” type of newer religions will take just about anyone, without investigation.

              I have had very limited contact with Mormons. They’ve actually only come to my door once in my life. I had a “friend” (of sorts, via the internet) who was Mormon and abused by her husband. Because she was not a virgin before marriage (she had ONE sexual encounter with a man prior to marriage), they were not allowed to marry in the temple. She believed their marriage (and her life) was doomed because she had not obeyed the doctrines. It truly made me sad. Day after day, week after week, this woman did the best she could feeding her kids cereal for dinner — all she could afford. And yet, the church, her community, had nothing but disdain for her because she spoke out about her husband’s abuse. It went so far that she was about to be excommunicated if she did anything further.

              I have to disclose that she ultimately returned to her community — something I disagreed with her on at the time, but it was all she knew and she needed support. And despite my repeated financial contributions to her children’s ability to eat, the church advised her to have nothing further to do with a heathen such as me. She went along with that and turned on me. It’s all good. I’m glad her kids ate a few times on me.

              She sent a couple of missionaries to my home when I was desperately in need. They couldn’t give me a ride to the grocery store, but if I listened to them for an hour or so, they could have given me some canned food — so they said on the phone. That wasn’t exactly true. Perhaps they might have given me some canned food if I agreed to convert. But I told them I needed help, not religious guidance right then, and they were terribly offended. It was NOT the right time to preach to me. My husband had just been arrested for trying to kill me. I didn’t know which end was up! I was desperately trying to survive but sensible enough to realize that no matter which God I prayed to, he/she/it wasn’t going to save me unless I took steps to save myself.

              Also, she gave me the number of my local Mormon bishop. I called him at least 100 times — and no, I’m not exaggerating. He never had the time to return my call. He didn’t return hers either. She was surprised at that. Of course, back then, I thought of a bishop as someone like a Catholic Bishop. I didn’t know better.

              I hate to essentially blast a religion, but yes, perhaps Mormonism is a cult. It certainly appears to have had its beginnings as such. Although mainstream Mormons apparently don’t subscribe to the older beliefs of plural marriage, blood atonement, etc., it’s still difficult to comprehend some of their doctrines in this modern age.

              • (((((((StillOutThere)))))) Thanks for sharing! ♥

              • StillOutThere,
                I REALLY do appreciate you sharing your story.

                I don’t think it’s blasting a “religion” if I really believe in my heart that they are really hurting people instead of helping them.
                People really need to know without going through it.

                It get’s harder and harder for people to believe because of this kind of stuff.
                How can you help your neighbor IF you believe like they do?
                Another thing that is so rediculous is the DOCTRINES.
                That’s what it is. If you attend a churc and you have to read their book, become like them and IF you do you are denied anything from them

                There’s a song and a saying supposedly about God and It’s so true.
                “You did what in my name? ”
                So people are litterly getting turned off.
                I don’t like doctrines so I don’t want to become anything.

                What happened to simplicity helping your neigbor?

                The Mormon and that other one, I think is Scientoligy and JWitness, their
                doctrices are so far away from what I believe is a way to help people,
                I can’t see what or why people belong.

                It is very interesting and some can be good and some really bad.
                Thanks again. : )

                If it doesn’t seem right at first, leave!!!

                • Aly, very good post!!! I agree with you 100%.

27. I hope Nurmi and Jen are not reading here today. They are both being roasted!

    • I kinda feel that way also. But like I’ve said before everyone has a right to their own opinions!! People are passionate.

      • I’m sure they are way too busy to pay attention to what’s being said about them.

    • Oh they don’t have time to look at the internet, don’t worry. That’s what they told people who suggested they read various things. They didn’t have the time.

28. I wish you all a very good night and a peaceful rest….

29. JENNIFER DID THE BEST SHE COULD AND SO DID K.N. JENNIFER WAS THERE FOR JODI LETS NOT FORGET THAT SHE POORED JODI WATER COMFORTD HER WHEN JODI CRYED JENNIFER GOT SO MUCH HATE AND DEATH THREATS BECAUSE OF JODI JUAN IS A BULLY IN THE COURTROOM AND GETS AWAY WITH IT JENNIFER HAD TO ALSO TAKE CARE OF JODI IN WAY I WILL NEVER FORGET WHAT JENNIFER SAID IN HER CLOSING THAT ALL LIFE IS WORTH SAVING TWO WRONGS DONT MAKE A RIGHT THIS CASE HAD TO BE SO HARD FOR JENNIFER LAST TIME JENNIFER GOT 4 PEOPLE TO VOTE LIFE THEY BOTH SAVED JODI LIFE I BELIVIE JODI WAS BLESSED TO HAVE JENNIFER ALMOST ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE COURTROOM HATED THEM FOR DOING THEIR JOB THEIR IS SO MANY PEOPLE TO BLAME FOR JODI GOING TO PRISON JENNIFER AND K.N. ARE NOT BLAME JENNIFER IS MY HERO IF I WAS YOUNGER I WOULD BE LAWYER LIKE HER SHE CARES ABOUT JODI SHE DIDNT HAVE TO COMFORT JODI OR ASK JODI IF SHE WAS OK AND TALK TO ALL THE TIME JENNIFER AND K.N. ARE HOPEING MORE THAN ANY OF US JODI WALKS OUT OF PRISON ONE DAY LETS SHOW THEM OUR SUPPORT AND THANK THEM

    • I for one give KN and JW my thanks. This has taken its role on many. We need to remember God is in control.

      • Tole

        • toll 😉

          • Brain froze! Thank you! ♥

            • well there is such a thing as tole, which is why spellchecker didn’t buzz you – but I didn’t think you were talking about tole painting

              • 😉 Your right as usual!

    • Okay, Shannon, shout at me. But no, Jennifer Willmott was doing a job as a lawyer, representing a client. And YES, that means that she DID have to speak to her client. I’m sorry she received death threats. But I don’t think she did a very good job and I think she could have done a lot better. And I’m entitled to my opinion on that subject. You’re also entitled to your opinion. But no, I’m not going to thank Jodi’s attorneys for getting her convicted when I think they could have done better. And you can shout all you want, but that’s not going to make me do what you want me to do.

      • Shannon is a big fan of Jennifer Willmott.

        She drops by every few weeks to let us know how much Jennifer cares about Jodi and how hard she’s fought to save Jodi. Those are the only posts she leaves.

        When I saw how the conversation was going awhile ago, I thought uh oh, I hope Shannon doesn’t drop by tonight, because I knew it would upset her.

        ~~waving to Shannon!~~~ I like Jennifer a lot, too! But a lot of mistakes were made in this case, and Jodi’s best shot at freedom is an honest look at ALL of them!

        • Ahhhh thanks for the explanation, Journee. Shannon probably doesn’t know that Jennifer hasn’t bothered to stop by and see Jodi since the mistrial was declared, and from what is said, very rarely before that.

          • 🙁

            • Since Joe got pissed, I believe Maria is the only one allowed to see Jodi until she gets transferred. It’s a blessing that she has such a good relationship with her.

    • I agree with you Shannon that Jen seemed to do a lot in the courtroom to help Jodi through this marathon of Snarky and his BS. I will always remember the tweet when Jen got the news in court about the death of their investigator and it was Jodi who was rubbing Jen’s back. It seemed to me that they had a very good relationship, only second to Maria.

      If we are to be fair, this was a very difficult case for a defence attorney with all the pre-trial interviews that the state set up for Jodi, Jodi’s psychological state being such that she couldn’t face the truth for two years, change of attorneys, not to mention all the lying and covering up of the Mesa Police and Malware. And then there was Horn and the change in wound sequence just before trial. I could go on but I won’t except to say that Martinez did very rotten thing that he could to make it as unfair as possible for Jodi.

      • Canada Carol, I agree with you. If anyone were to go back and watch the beginning of the first trial they would see that KN always sat next to Jodi when Jen was questioning a witness. Then it changed. There could have been a number of reasons as to why. Let us not forget that JM was throwing out and windows that everybody was in love with Jodi. Could have been a number of things.

        Yes there were things that we feel they really messed up on. Then we have all this business of KN wanting leave the case. None of us knows what really transpired behind closed doors. IMHO it’s counter predictive to throw the DT under the bus. But I also respect other peoples opinions and the right to state them even if I disagree.
        As I stated last night we a passionate people!!! With two goals: find the truth and for Jodi to be free!!!

        • I was expressing my opinion and agreeing with Shannon. That’s allowed.

          • Oh hon I agree with you!!! It was never a negative towards you!!!!

    • To be honest, I am still bitter at Nurmi. If during the first trial he had shown the passion and soul he did in the re-trial, the outcome might have been a different one.

      A jury senses how passionate and invested an atty is. How can they believe a defendants’ innocence when her own atty didn’t present it with all his might.

      I think that Nurmi ‘saved face’ during the re-trial BUT it was too late, the verdict of premed M1 was already out… 🙁

      • Pandora, I know what you are saying. I agree for the most part. I honestly think that he should have been able to withdraw from the case. His head was not into it. I think there were many things going on with his health. How many times did it look like he was sleeping?? I’m sure he can’t sleep apnea the whole bunch of other medical issues going on. Look at the difference after he had surgerystarted losing weight. I’m not making excuses for him just pointing out some observations. He did f~ up on allot of things. I’m sure that at one point Jodi and him had a good relationship what happened I sure don’t know.

30. Ugh, I’m watching this stupid argument from 1/27 about that loser Abe and whether or not he can testify to the fact that he reached into Jodi’s pants and discovered she was wearing a thong. According to Abe, he told her that she wasn’t wearing the Mormon magic underwear and she told him the magic was *in* her panties. And this goes to Jodi’s credibility because she didn’t specifically state that she kissed Abe on her date and didn’t write about him putting his hand into her pants and feeling her thong. To Martinez, this isn’t about whether or not Jodi is promiscuous, but whether or not she’s credible. I mean seriously, they spent over an hour basically debating whether or not Jodi has magic in her underwear. Even the judge doesn’t think her magic panties or the magic in them was relevant and she feels it’s prejudicial.

    Where in the world does this happen other than AZ? Yes, adults go on dates and they kiss, and sometimes, they even talk about the magic in their undies.

31. all of you on here yes I like Jennifer I know a lot about her I also care about Jodi so much it breaks my heart that Jodi may never be mother I pray that Jodi walks out of prison one day and goes home Jennifer has a another death case TRAVIS RICCI HES 28 WITH THE SAME JUDGE I blame JUAN FLORES HORN AND THE judge I will not blame Jennifer what I know about Jennifer I wont say because of the haters Jodi only wanted K.N. gone not Jennifer JODI gets along with JENNIFER I am going to write to Jodi in prison what ever she wants to talk about I don’t want to upset Jodi it maybe hard JENNIFER to see Jodi in jail in chains JENNIFER cant touch Jodi in jail maybe Jodi starts to cry when Jennifer visits Jodi in jail I cant blame JEN to me she is good person she fought very hard for Jodi JUAN NEVER LOSS A CASE THIS WAS HIS FIRST DEATH CASE HE LOSSED JENNIFER WANTED THE JUDGE TO PUT JUAN ON THE STAND THE JUDGE SAID ON I HATE TO SAY IT ONCE THE JURY SAW THE PHOTOS OF TRAVIS JODI WAS DOME LOOK THE WAY JUAN TOLD THE JURY THAT TRAVIS FELT VERY STAB WOUND THAT HE SAW HIMSELF IN MIRROR BLEEDING JUAN MADE JODI MONSTER IN JURY EYES JUAN SHOWED THE JURY NECK WOUND AND THE FAMILY CRYING EVERYDAY IN THE FRONT ROW K.N AND JENNIFER BEGGED THE JUDGE TO PUT JUAN IN HIS PLACE SHE WONT WHEN THEY WENT HOME AT THEY MUST HAVE WANTED TO KICK THE WALL THEY HAD TO SO STRESS OUT

    • Shannon, I’m sorry, but the way you write, without any punctuation and ton of capitalization … well, it’s just too difficult for me to read. I’m sure you have good points, but you really need to help us get them by using punctuation so we know where your sentences begin and end.

      But I have to say this, Martinez did not lose this case. Jodi was convicted. That is considered a win. He has been the prosecutor in something like 8 cases where the defendant was sentenced to the death penalty. But he has not been successful in getting the death penalty in every case, and he also hasn’t won every case, so that is false information. Check out the Doug Grant or Scott Falater cases if you don’t believe me!

      • Your ok Shannon! ♥ I have to have help all the time with everything! Something tells me your talking to your phone like some others around here 🙄 and We won’t name names. 😆 I know your ♥ is in the right place! ♥

        • You talking about me girl? 🙂

          • 😯 Who me? Naaaahhhhhh! 😉

            Here is one for TEAM JODI this morning.
            Praying for JODI as always!
            ♥ https://youtu.be/-ebtjgK8NNU

            • ((((R.))))). Thanks. perfect song..

              • Thanks R. love! I first saw BA when he was 16 at the Barn in North Vancouver!

                Straight from the heart as always, prayers for Jodi.

                • Gash patty you get around! 🙂

                • GOSH! Good grief. . .well golly! 😉 BTW Where is Typo ELF?

32. Al and Jade, please check your e-mail.

    Rasna Admin
    TEAM JODI

33. Good Monday Morning folks.

    Some Morning music. Another upcoming youngster.

    This is Willie’s kid. I think you’ll find he’s cool.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXUDaNpcMQo

    • Thanks Al !! He has a great voice.

      • And all the young girls think he’s cute.

    • Cool ! Never knew a van could sound so good….he sounds a lot like the old man……..

    • WOW Thanks for sharing that! He is great!

34. SJ when you have time please send R.Love my personal email.

    Thank you!!!

35. R. Love I asked SJ to send you my email address.

    • lol – hope that works out better for R Love than it did for me.

      I never did get a correct email for you –

      but if ADMIN will send MINE to YOU and you in turn write to me, maybe that would work

      • LOL…R. can give you mine OK..

        • Check ♥

    • Okey Doke! Thanks Cindy! ♥

36. Good morning Team Jodi! Hope all is well, sending love to everyone!

    • Right back at ya Vicky!!!!

37. Journee, whenever you get a chance check out VENT page. 😉

38. For those of us who have been waiting patiently or otherwise, CrimeTime has put up Day 16.

39. Day 16 of the retrial at 3:19 – Nurmi is still asking for a copy of the 2008 drive. I can’t get the video to mark at the correct time. Sorry. This was after Snarky was complaining about e-filing a motion and the AZ Republic. What a little whiner…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRj38AXeRHI

    • I saw that and started laughing. He couldn’t even pull it off his own laptop. What a dumb
      A..

      • I think you are thinking of something different cindy. There is no laptop, just Nurmi bringing up prosecutorial misconduct again, and the fact that the drive that they were given the day before didn’t work. Snarky’s still playing games with that darn drive.

        • Oh I might have misunderstood. I was talking about the frog not getting the motion and was was whining about it to JSS.

    • Day 16 Part 2 begins with the 2008 computer issues again.

40. Such a different atmosphere from #JodiArias trial. Both lawyers are very pleasant when talking to witnesses, not accusatory . #JericeHunter

    • Sorry, that was from Tammy Rose. Just shows how out of control the JA circus was.

41. Ha – the apparent queen of the morons over at the state site seems to have decided that RASNA is really Jodi.

    The queen idiot’s followers are encouraging her to send RASNA’s ‘threats’ (the warnings about karma) to sheriff Joe and let him know that Jodi’s plotting some kind of coup before she leaves for P’ville.

    • I certainly can say RASNA would be flattered if he was a woman. You just got to love them.
      Go figure. 🙄

      • Maybe he should start using his deeper voice.

        • LOL….

        • “That ain’t no woman! It’s a man, man!” 😉

    • Oh what a bunch of loony tunes. Ha,ha,ha!!
      Did you see the post that was calling out by name a few of us on Sat.??? It would be funny excepted for what she said about R. I was pissed about that…but as R. would say just laugh it off.

      Geez well then Jodi mush be able to have a computer in her cell because I say Rasna’s post this morning. Boy that Jodi has magic powers!! Snaps her fingers and she’s got a computer….

      • Not sure what exactly these type of people get from their long hate campaign to hurt Jodi. I’m thinking they haven’t figured out yet that she is in jail, locked in a block cell without windows and completely locked down. Is that not what they worked so hard for? They wanted the Death Penalty but life in prison isn’t good enough for the blood thirsty bunch, huh? Are they under the belief that, that life in prison is a luxury? Do they know her personally and have a huge personal agenda to fulfill continuing to spread their vile words? Does it make them feel important? Are they profiting from their campaign? What is their reasoning? What if they are W R O N G about everything?

        Wonder why it bothers them that they can’t figure out who we are? Why? Maybe they still believe we are just one person posting back and forth using many different names to throw them off track. . . .oh well, they are hopeless. I suppose they will continue their games until someone new comes along who doesn’t fit their brainwashed mold and then they will move on to their next victim.

        The one thing they have made perfectly clear is they have never been interested in the truth about Travis Alexander, Jodi Arias, The Hughes, JSS, PIOF, Martinez and the Prosecutor’s Office, MCPD and The Arizona Justice System and anyone or anything else that has happened in this tragedy. The truth doesn’t matter because they are too busy gleefully Lying for the Lord.

        The TRUTH does matter to me. I thank God everyday that I do not share their beliefs and I will continue to proudly pray for Jodi Arias until she has been set free from this horrible nightmare. What has happened to her, might just happen to one of them. Never say never. . .they will reap what they sow.

        BTW, there are many online games they could play that might help them waste their extra time…..

        • R. Very well said!! I’m on my knees next to you praying for Jodi!!

          I have come to the conclusion that they realize the latter is not a forgery!!!! But they can not except that. They still think that Jodi has magic powers. They will have to face the true very soon!!!
          Jodi will be set free!!!

        • Right! They should never say never…they may not only reap what they have sowed by they will also be dining forever on crow!

          • Exactly Carol. The differences between us to them is we have Always looked at the evidence.

        • Here’s some facts / truth about this case:

          And these are not being listed to suggest a justification for Travis being killed, of course not….these are just facts in this case…….

          1) Travis was NOT a virgin as he portrayed himself to be (fact) – that makes him a LIAR IN CHIEF (my opinion here)
          And IMHO a lie by omission is still a lie as the results are the same….people believe what you intend for them to believe and it is still not the truth no matter how you slice it….
          2) Travis was out of compliance with his church’s dictates/ law of chastity (fact)
          3) Travis was sexting, having anal sex, oral sex, and vaginal sex with Jodi (fact)
          4) Lisa wrote an email to Travis stating that he was not behaving the way she would like him to and she was uncomfortable with it (sexual advances) and had to ask him to stop more than once – she finally broke it off with him (fact)
          5) Travis lost his temple recommends at least one time (fact)
          6) Travis sent photos of his penis to Jodi (fact)
          7) Travis shockingly spoke about what a 12 year old girl sounds like having her first orgasim (fact)
          8) Travis also boasting about how many times he was pumping his sperm out of himself after masturbating on that same phone sex tape (fact)
          9) Travis also spoke about making “legitimate porn” on the phone sex tape (fact)
          10) Travis had sex with Deanna (fact)
          11) Travis was communicating with other women and from the content of those communications they were obviously having sex with him too…(woman in Show Low, etc..) (fact)
          12) Travis was lying to himself, to others, and to his church by portraying himself or allowing others to continue with the belief that he was a 30 year old virgin (fact)
          14) Emails between the Hughes and Travis reveal that they felt he was not treating women very well – “gutting” them, using them for “booty calls,” and that even Ms. Hughes would not allow her younger sister to have any interest in him, etc… (fact)
          Note of my opinion: “booty call” has a strong sexual connotation to it and for the Hughes to use that term is very telling
          15) Travis through his communications with Jodi called her a slut, a whore, a three-hole wonder yet after she moved back to Yreka he would still call her….wanted to know if she was seeing anyone else….(fact)
          16) Travis was planning a trip to CA and was planning on visiting Jodi on this trip…a trip where they could live out the fantasy of the school girl in the woods and him tying her to a tree and sticking it in her ass…(fact)
          16) There 19+ virus scrubber programs on Travis’s computer (fact)
          17) There were viruses on Travis’s computer some that were obtained from porn sites (fact)
          18) There was porn video links on Travis’s computer (fact)
          19) There was porn site links in the history and the registry of Travis’s computer (fact)
          20) Some of those porn sites were searched manually by the user (not put there by a virus) (fact)
          21) Travis took sexually explicit pornographic photographs of Jodi and used pornographic terms in his conversations with her (phone convo) (fact)
          22) While Travis was telling others negative things about Jodi he was still seeing her and having sex with her on a regular basis (fact)

          Well, here are some of the “facts” of this case…….

          • BB, I love how well you can pull it all together. Good List! Thank you. Let’s see if the Looky Loos post that list on their site. 😆 They might actually read it if they aren’t too busy playing Grand Theft Auto, Zombies or Game of Thrones. All would be great past times for them.

42. There was blood on the wall but not in the print. So it’s impossible to know if the print was there before or after the blood contacted the wall.

    The defense blew right past any analysis of the crime scene and went straight to domestic violence that Nurmi was most comfortable with, and then spending 90% of his focus on why Jodi couldn’t remember anything after the gunshot. When instead, it should have been relentless attack on all the prosecution’s exhibits by easily debunking them with forensic experts and that the crime scene reflected a battle instead of a premeditated murder.

    The Mesa PD experts that testified were pathetic. Lisa Perry, one of the “biological scientist” police specialists was about as easy to eviscerate as a student fresh from forensic training school.

    You have to hear this to believe it…she says there were a “bunch of blood stains” that she couldn’t determine how they were caused. And this was the police EXPERT. This is a technical term experts use? Oy vey.

    https://youtu.be/qLfabn2US8U?t=7024

    But here is the POSITIVE UNEQUIVOCAL NO WAY TO SPIN testimony that there was NO BLOOD in that print. We should make this YouTube proof of a lie that has been been perpetuated since day one a flashing stickee at the top of our site. Martinez was shitting his pants.

    https://youtu.be/qLfabn2US8U?t=3682

    It is extremely significant that Jodi Legg couldn’t develop a full profile because it takes very little DNA in most cases. DNA can be replicated for a sample through a process called amplification millions of times. If there is not a full profile that means that alleles are missing and that is only the case in samples that are very small.

    Here is a site that explains it pretty simply

    http://www.forensicsciencesimplified.org/dna/how.html

    • Could we start out with the presumption that Jodi Arias is Innocent until Proven Guilty?
      Then take each piece of evidence and rip it apart.
      Look for possibilities that each and every piece of evidence presented by the prosecution is wrong and find ways to prove they are wrong.
      You are making a great start at this, Jade.

      • Jade’s been doing just that over the last few weeks, or months, or something. Tearing each part to shreds.

    • Isn’t that something else. The Kastle Meyer test gave negative results. The kastle Meyer test can produce a false positive, i.e. it can show blood where none is present, hence its a presumptive test. But under normal circumstances it doesn’t produce a false negative i.e. show no blood when blood is there. So if the Kastle Meyer test shows no blood you can pretty much rest assured there isn’t any – except for cases where the scens has been destroyed by certain chemical reagents. In fact the Kastle Meyer test is very sensitive and can detect blood in concentration of less than 1 part in 10 million. So if you were to take 1 drop of blood (say 1/100 of 1 cc) and mix it with 1,000 liters of water, the Kastle Meyer test would still return a positive.

      I guess I forgot all about this.

      JM was smart, he brought this up on direct so that no of could blame him for hiding it – and the elk squad just missed it completely.

      Shame on them.

    • Yes, Jade, it is amazing how the truth gets lost in this process so that JM can put another notch in his lipstick case……

43. Hi everyone. Ran across this very interesting piece on juror 17.
    http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/mesa/2015/03/21/jodi-arias-trial-juror-treatment-raises-questions/25109059/

44. So in response to all the stuff jade’s been talking about, and StillOutThere and others, here’s another bit of speculation on my part that might explain the unmitigated disaster this defense became. Assuming that Nurmi and JW are not completely dumb (moose, elk and heifer notwithstanding), why the heck would one take this seemingly negligent and incompetent approach to the case. (And believe me the use of the terms negligent and incompetent are serious understatements).

    Why the heck would a defense team not try rip this stuff apart, why would they not even hire a CSI expert or a pathologist, or interview Horn before the trial, or do the hundreds of million things they ignored? Was it just sheer incompetence, or something else.

    So I had a bit of an epiphany. I put together statements StillOutThere had made about a tired PD used to making plea deals, and my hunch that KN didn’t believe Jodi, and Victoria Washington’s statement that she wanted to go with a sudden quarrel, heat of passion defense and a couple of other things and came up with a scenario. Now a word of warning or caveat, before we proceed, this is pure speculation, and a sort of fun way to pass the evening, and I have absolutely no knowledge of what the real stuff is. So anyway let’s go into wonder land.

    This whole defense sort of reminds me of the Sherlock Holmes story where Holmes points to the curios behavior of the dog at night, to which Watson says the dog did nothing. So we have a DT that basically did nothing to challenge the rather flimsy and incomplete case that JM put up. They might have suddenly started doing some challenging right at the end of the guilt phase, but you could tell they weren’t prepared for it while presenting their case in chief. So we have the first point – the DT wasn’t willing to challenge the state’s case in order to directly show that the evidence could point to something else.

    Secondly, if you look at the defense case it was mostly aimed towards the domestic abuse situation with really very little to show for any sort of discrepancy in the State’s case. In fact the major part of their case was to show that Jodi was a person with a troubled past, and TA was an abuser with a sordid past. So that’s point two – a case that paints the defendant in a vulnerable light and the decedent in a harsh light.

    Third, the defense offered up a plea deal, on what most may consider very liberal terms as their opening position in any possible bargain – M2. Now in any bargain, each side starts with its extreme limit with the full expectation that they might have to move off it a bit. The person who holds the bargaining chip (or the biggest stash thereof) typically needs to move a little less. In such a case, the state normally holds the biggest chip of all – I’ll take the case to court, with charges I, the state get to choose (remember the adage about Grand Juries and ham sandwiches). What the heck does the defense hold? I can save you some money, or you might loose the case. Not much really. So basically the State is probably in a stronger position to bargain. Now the defense offers M2. If they, i.e. the DT have to give up anything where do they have the wiggle room?

    OK – so now how many folks here are thinking along the same lines as me? Anyone?

    Here’s my hypothesis for the day – KN didn’t believe Jodi. He believed that the state was going to win this case. His whole defense strategy was aimed, not at getting a verdict of anything less than M1, but of saving her life. So all he was going for was making sure there wasn’t a DP verdict.

    That would explain not going after the state’s case. Because he didn’t believe he had the evidence to beat the state’s case.

    That would explain the 18 days Jodi spent on the stand, get the jury to know her.

    That would explain the huge number of days ALV spent on the stand.Remember she was originally meant to be a mitigation witness, which would have made sense, but he moved the mitigation stuff right into his case in chief.

    That would explain not following a sudden quarrel defense, because he would then have to attack the evidence which he didn’t think he could.

    And that would explain an opening salvo of M2 on the plea deal, because if he had to give anything he would be up into M1 in any case, but maybe he could get the DP off the table.

    I guess he woke up somewhere during the course of the post guilt phase trial and said to himself – whoa maybe there’s something here. In fact that may explain the part of his filing to withdraw on 8/7/2014 where he says that he didn’t sign a contract with the PD’s office because he disagreed with their approach to the case, while the rest of the DT did.

    So as Linda Richman would say on Coffee Talk, “Talk amongst yourselves, I’ve given you a topic”

    • Where’s the part where the DT has 10 years exp. and the the pros have 35. and the pros have won 50x as many cases? All the rest may as well be, Kirk got embarrassed and payed his rent.

      • Oh yeah, it’s like butta!

      • I guess JM has a lot more experience than KN or JW, but if you really wanted to get your client off wouldn’t you at least question the state’s evidence.

        There are only two ways you could get your client off. The first is to question the state’s evidence and show that it does not stand up to proving the state’s case beyond a reasonable doubt. The second is to provide an airtight case of your own. Now the law says the defense doesn’t have to prove anything, the burden of proof lies on the state. And that is rightfully so because if the defendant had nothing to do with the alleged charges, it is really hard for the defense to provide evidence to prove a negative. So the best course of action would be to show why the state’s evidence does not prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the state’s case holds water. But how does the defense do this – it does it by showing how the evidence provided by the state is faulty, or leads to some other reasonable conclusion, etc.

        That I think is what jade has been arguing about all these days now. That if you look at the evidence presented by the state it is full of holes. She showed you how the blood spatter didn’t match up to the state’s case. She showed you how the whole bullet wound coming last was wrong. She showed you how the blood on the sink could only have come from a nasal passage wound because there was no damage to TA’s thoracic part respiratory system. She showed you how the conclusions drawn by JM from the camera pictures was wrong. She showed you how the fingerprint pattern was mischaracterized. None of this was done by the DT. I don’t know how much experience jade has as a defense attorney, but if its less than what KN or JW have, then doesn’t that say something.

        Nowit may be that the DT said we’re going to take the other route – i.e., we are going to present our own case, and ignore the state’s evidence. If you choose to do that you better have a real tight case. Their case was Jodi, Samuels and ALV. Let’s start with ALV. ALV’s testimony just says that TA was an abuser and in such instances it is possible that a self-defense situation arises. But ALV’s testimony in way says that’s what happened on that particular day. Samuels’ testimony says it is possible for a blackout in such a case, and that Jodi suffered from PTSD. So again, he is saying that her story can be rationalized – but again he cannot say what happened that day. So you are left with Jodi’s word for it, but the DT presented no other evidence to show what exactly happened that day.

        So that’s the problem. And that I believe is why Victoria Washington wanted to pursue a sudden quarrel type defense. Because she could use the state’s own evidence to show that such a situation was a reasonable explanation based on the evidence. I also believe that at some stage Nurmi realized that and so argued sudden quarrel heat of passion in his closing. But I think it was too little too late, because they hadn’t attacked the state’s evidence during the case.

        I don’t think this was an issue of experience. I’m not a lawyer, I have zero experience and I can see this. Like I said, I don’t know how much experience jade or justus have, but they can see it (remember justus’s 22 questions).

        I think this was either just really poor lawyering or something else.

    • Remember this? Nurmi went for a Hail Mary pass right at the very end of the trial. But what good is that? That’s like putting a new radio in a car that has no engine, no wheels and is up on blocks.

      Take away the 2 photos, take away the phenomenal odds that she could put him that shower in the time it would have had to be done, prove that the blood shows nothing that the prosecution claims, take away the impact of the hand print as indisputably having no blood and what have you got?

      The premeditated should have been the focus because until you knock that down, you can’t get to heat of passion or murder 2. And it should have been easy–ask Jose Baez. But you can’t do that with a Dr. Samuels. And when they did put him on the stand, the way he was prepared as their own witness was pitiable woeful.

      The felony murder was a knee slapper that even 5 of the Goobers on the jury didn’t buy so that charge was nothing to worry about and was a joke to begin with. Even the prosecution argued that Alexander didn’t have a gun. So they argued against their own charge they charged her with. How can she steal a gun he doesn’t have?

      Heat of passion or sudden quarrel flips the event from one who is attacked to one who becomes the attacker. That wouldn’t have helped Jodi no matter what–not based on what she testified to.

      Her testimony was waa-ay too long and became a diatribe of material for the miniature executioner. All she would have had to lay a foundation for is how he attacked her combined with a little of her abusive past. No doubt in order to plead self defense, she was forced by the judge to give a basic explanation of why she needed to defend herself since she was the only one who had exclusive knowledge of the event and there were no witnesses or other alleged accomplices.

      But it should have been short and sweet with a maximum of probably two days. It would have limited Martinez incredibly to impeach her. And then all the defense had to do was destroy what the prosecution patched together which was all over the map and nothing had a nexus to anything else. It was just one giant flatulation. But ……

      And here was the last minute Hail Mary…

      http://www.mediafire.com/view/9pleq9x70ajfrtg/Manslaughter_Hail_Mary__Page_1.png

      http://www.mediafire.com/view/2d3f83sa091s43v/Manslaughter_Hail_Mary__Page_2.png

      • Try these links.

        This really got everybody’s undies in a bunch but that ship had already sailed. No chance.

        http://www.mediafire.com/view/d0owk8kwouy42ag/Manslaughter_Hail_Mary__Page_1.png

        http://www.mediafire.com/view/xe5vu8x9abu8wpa/Manslaughter_Hail_Mary__Page_2.png

        • Jade, I have a question for you. Who tried to clean up? What did they use that little plastic glass in the shower? Whole lot of water…. Was there enough time for Jodi to have tried to clean up???

          • Who knows. The state alleges it was Jodi who tried to clean up. The defense never questioned that, so we don’t know.

            I’m sure someone will correct me, but we really have no idea of when Jodi left the scene. I suppose some sort of estimation could be made based on the timing of the phone call she made to Ryan Burns, etc. Also some estimate could be made based on when the roommate came home, but that could easily be off by 10 minutes, or 15 or 30 or whatever.

            I, at least saw no estimate of when she left.

            • OK Al, I agree we don’t know what time she left. But who in their “Right” mind would even try to clean up that blood bath? Even if they used the towel that was found in the washing machine. If Jodi had planned this whole thing out as the state said she would not have left such a mess??

      • As usual you nailed it.

        The whole sudden quarrel, heat of passion thing seemed like an after thought. KN didn’t seem to raise that anywhere along the course of the trial.

        I know the jury instructions say a jury is not supposed to make up its mind before all the evidence is in, and they’re supposed to deliberate it all. But I really doubt that’s how it works. I am sure they start forming their opinions as soon as the first mention of anything is made, probably even before opening statements, because the attorneys get to address them during questioning prior to seating the jury.

        That is probably what accounts for juries taking a vote as soon as they have a foreman selected – because a lot of them know where they think they’re headed.

        So to throw some new theory at them during closing is just ludicrous. Closing is a sort of summary of what you’ve been trying to show. And if you haven’t been trying to show sudden quarrel through months of trial, you’re wasting your time bringing it up at closing.

45. Al, does your wife ever look at you and say What? You totally lost me, but it’s been a long day….. I have to reread it a few times. I’m sure it will be a great topic for conversation…

    • Its been known to happen – but mostly cause she can’t believe some boneheaded thing I just did.

    • Hey Cindy, How’s the shoulder doing?

      • I’m good to go. Doing a bit of PT now.

        • Cool. Make sure you do all that PT stuff diligently. It does help.

          • Yes I know. My sister is a mean PT…lol. It’s not my first rodeo. I have struggled with this since 2008. So they just decided to move a few things around. LOL.

46. One thing that was sad to me, in this trial, was that Jodi did not have more witnesses come forward to support her. Darryl did, but not Matt McCartney, Bobby, her Mom, etc. I’ve always that maybe if more people stepped forward it might have made a difference?

    Maureen

    • No one was safe. That was obvious.

      • I read or heard somewhere that JM threatened Matt with perjury if he testified. That just drove him away. I think they kept Jodi’s Mom off the stand so they could have the whole parental abuse thing stand alone. Plus I think Jodi’s Mom had said some stuff in an interview with Flores that might have bitten them in the butt.

        By the time the trial got part of the way through, anyone who might have wanted to testify on Jodi’s behalf was probably running scared.

        • Exactly

        • Al, you are right on point. I know I forgot about Jodi’s parents talking to DT. Dickhead. Thanks for clearing that up.

47. When and where and who did Jodi
    confess to killing TA?
    I didn’t see it at all in the interrigation.

    Do any of you know?
    Was it at the trial?

    • In the trial. She was asked point blank – did you kill TA and she said yes. More than once if you consider all phases of the thing.

      • My problem with her so called confession is this:
        She says Yes I killed him, but I don’t know if the bullet hit him or not and I simply don’t remember anything else, and maybe this and maybe yes and maybe no.

        So, I read the interrogation transcripts and am left believing that she conjured up all that stuff to satisfy the relentless interrogation she had been going through for hours and hours and hours maybe even days and days.

        After she conjured up a story and wasn’t advised by counsel to withdraw that statement all defense lawyers did was assume she did it and approached the case from that point on.
        They did not question the medical examiner Dr. Horn, and they never pinned him down to how long the body had been dead. Everyone just assumed or presumed he had been dead for 5 days. There has never been any testimony to that; only conjuncture and presumption.

        The body does not exhibit the characteristics present in a 5 day dead body.
        Flores originally said in his report the body had been dead 1-2 days.
        Horn said nothing about it at all and the defense attorneys never bothered to ask him.

        Also although Horn took fingernail clippings he never had them tested. Why? Since Travis was in a fight for his life there would surely be DNA of his aggressor under his nails. They are saved for future testing according to his autopsy report. Why haven’t they been tested. What if the DNA under the nails isn’t Jodi’s DNA?
        And if it is than sudden quarrel might be the answer. Otherwise, no, they should have she should have pleaded not guilty.

        It would be helpful for those of us who believe she has been unfairly charged, tried and convicted for something she didn’t do, if someone would prove the time of death. Perhaps that is the best most logical first place to look for answers: Dr. Horn’s medical autopsy.

        • So how the state show proof?
          Pictures???
          That isn’t proof.

          Her saying she did it, really isn’t proof, is it?
          Even when someone says that they did it, there’s still a trial
          and the state has to proof their case.
          Where is the proof?

          • Did she tell someone that she did it before the trial and IF so,
            who was it and didn’t she wait 2 years?
            She was taken from the CA interrogation room to AZ and was she booked then,
            just because Flores didn’t believe her?

            • The Grand Grand Jury of AZ indicted her when she was still in California. DT.F arrested her in CA. and she was extradited back to Arizona.

              • Cindy,
                Was that after she confessed?
                Also did she testify for the Grand Jury?

                • Aly, I think DT.F had the warrant before Jodi confessed to anything. But that’s my opinion.

                  If you watch the interrogation tape you will hear him say the GJ had indicted her. Now I’m not real sure if it was BS on his part or not. But I would think if they extradited her it would be true.
                  Hopefully someone who knows more about the law can verified this.

                • Cindy,
                  But, on what grounds?
                  Because he said everyone was pointing the finger at her?

                  He said he had pictures of them having sex that day.
                  She KNEW he as wrong, but he just wasn’t going to listen to her.
                  I really wonder WHY, someone didn’t stand up to them..

                  It’s going to happen to them one day.
                  They can’t go on with these lies much longer.

                  I don’t know much about the Grand Jury OR WHY we have them really.
                  Isn’t a trial and jury sufficient?
                  I’m learning a lot.

                  I wonder what the Grand Jury heard!

            • Flores wanted to have an arrest, he was under pressure from the public and press.
              He was already invested in nailing Jodi Arias for the crime.
              He coerced Jodi into developing a story for the benefit of the ‘family’ which she complied with.
              From that point on one can see how the State built their case on Jodi’s story.
              She really was a victim of the notorious Reid Technique, and I pray the appellate attorneys use that in their appeal.

              • Carol, I have always believed that. But it’s always good to keep putting it out there!!

          • From a purely technical point of view, the fact that she says she killed TA becomes sufficient proof that she killed him. The topic of debate then becomes the circumstances behind the act, not the act itself.

            So the thing the state now has to prove is whatever they are alleging as the crime involved – say M1, and not the fact that she did the killing.

            If there was no statement by her they would have to not only prove that she did the killing but also the circumstances.

            • So to have her state she did was really a bad move on the part of the DT.

              • Big time.

                But if she wanted to claim self-defense she had no choice. Just like jade said further up, and I have been yelling for months – the judge would have made her say that if she wanted to claim self-defense. Because there were no other witnesses, someone would have to explain at least the basics of self-defense in this case.

                That’s why that was [probably a bad idea from the start.

                • Haven’t many people said that they did it and we find
                  out later, they didn’t?

            • ‘From a purely technical point of view you are right’, Al.
              Only when the Appellate Court overturns and remands for retrial will anything be different. Anything concerning the crime scene, or the corpse, or the time-line that is discussed now can only be applied to what would happen in a retrial.
              If there is a retrial, Jodi needs to plead not guilty, not testify and let the State prove she did in fact commit the murder.
              Let the facts speak for themselves. What the time of death was, being their first priority. This is crucial because if Travis didn’t die on June 8th 2008 than Jodi wasn’t there (if she went there at all, which is a likelihood).
              Hopefully in that scenario, the Defense Attorneys will be more interested in proving the lack of evidence pointing to Jodi Arias’ guilt.

        • You are so right about this evidence that you talk about….the fingernail clippings should have been tested……at least verify if it was Jodi’s DNA under his fingernails or not…..and if not, was there any other foreign DNA under them? And if so, whose?

          • Don’t you wish you could have been a fly on the wall when Dr. Horn was interviewed, or maybe a wasp to sting whoever was interviewing him to get his attention….’hey, ask him about the nail clippings! …. ask him about the food in the stomach….ask him about the stages of decomposition! Were they afraid to get the answers? That is exactly what the State was afraid of, the defense finding out too many details and have the answers. (IMVHO of course!)

    • Aly, yes. One of the first questions KN asked her when she was on the stand was: Did you kill Travis Alexander? Her response was yes. Then they went into self defense.

48. Aly, This is a link to the interrogation tape transcripts. You will learn a great deal when you read them, and they will leave you wondering what in the world happened to truth and justice. It took me several days to get through them all, but I was really glad I did. They are eye-opening. The detectives pushed her into her ‘story’.

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?203866-TRANSCRIPTS-of-the-Interrogation-Videos-of-Jodi-Arias

    • Thanks Carol,
      I will read it!!!!
      Thanks so much.
      When you listen to her interrogation in Ca. by Flores, I FULLY believed her.
      She didn’t sound at all like she was making it up.
      She said those weren’t her pants in the picture and I do believe her.

      Also people intruding?
      Why did he tell her no one would believe that story?

      So, like you said they pushed her another way.
      Since I know that the state has lied about everything.
      WHY, should we believe them?
      It’s almost like Jodi is the only one willing to tell the truth.

49. Well, I found that post on the other page that referenced a few of us here….just wanting to keep things on the facts: I have never been fired, period, from any job….just the facts, please….

    That is what it is all about here, the fact, the evidence…..I wrote a list of some of them but it disappeared somewhere…it may show up later…..

    And the facts are that there are Brady violations in this case….I have gone over that subject in depth and will not spend time here on that…..

    So calm down, it is not going to be up to you or I, but it will be up to the appellate courts…

    • Good for you BB!!! Good for you!!!

      • They are going to start calling us out personally because they know that we are right and they can’t deal with it!!!

        ((((Jodi)))) will be vindicated and walk free!!!

50. From the retrial camera angle, I’ve noticed every time the defence is making a point with their witness, Snarky leans over and whispers to the lump sitting next to him using him as a prop.

    • Good Morning Canada Carol.

51. Good morning everyone.

    A nice little song for a Tuesday morning – Loose Lucy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X6B0wbDQ-Y

    • OK Al, I’m a fan now!!!

      • Yeah

52. Today’s theory regarding the letter is it’s was manufactured by cut and paste. Jodi had stolen TA’s journals and had hidden them away. Then who ever forged the latter used words out of Journal to cut and paste the latter together. Seriously that’s the best they can come up with?? I never l never have heard such an idiotic nonsense in my life.

    • Good Morning All! JODI ARIAS IS INNOCENT!

      Cindy, I suggest we just give up trying to explain how simple it is to see the “letter” is not a forgery. Why don’t we just let them keep believing that little fib because it won’t change anything. The truth is coming out in waves Hopefully the tsunami of truth will arrive and they will be standing with their mouths gaped open. Aaahhh, too bad for the guilty. Just too darn bad.

      I noticed that tonight on Nightline they are having a special about Warren J. in Utah. You know the one, had many under aged brides, the cult leader who is now in prison. Apparently a man who has served as sheriff in that town has apparently seen the light and is telling his story about how the church lead the town around by their noses. Everything is orchestrated by the church to cover their sins or wrong doings. Might be interesting. Seemed familiar, anyway.

      • R. I have decided that I really don’t give a rats butt what they say. Yup things are starting to just fall from the sky aren’t they??

      • Thanks R. Love, I will make sure to watch. The reaction to such a show will be very revealing, at least I hope so. 😉

    • I just read recently in the minutes of a 2010 hearing that Sky Hughes was ordered to turn over T’s journals. (How she ended up with them and why it took two years for investigators to seek them out is its own mystery.) And doesn’t this theory contradict the other ridiculous statement a few days ago that it doesn’t even look like T’s handwriting? These idiots don’t dare correct each other’s nonsense, even if they do recognize it as nonsense. It’s like a street gang or cult; they’re afraid to contradict each other foolishness lest they feel the wrath and are labelled a traitor.

      • Justus, great find!!! seriously just when and how did she get them!!! Were sky and Chris at the house when they family was allowed to take things out? I’m sorry but I find it hard to believe the family would give TA’s journals to anyone. Not even 2 years later.
        If Jodi had taken them and given them to the cashes we would have heard that by now. So that leaves only two other people….Miss Deanna or Sky. OK their is a third person PIOF. Would he have taken them and give them to his new DT. Chris H.?
        OK even I don’t buy that.
        I honestly think that Deanna took the ones/one that TA blame Jodi for. I also think that Sky took the others she had the day TA was murdered. I’m still of mind that TA did something to one of her sons. Call me crazy if you want….

        • Call me crazy too then Cindy!! The CASHs sure look suspicious in any event! they were and still are in full clean up mode!

      • Maybe the Hughes followers would like to explain how they fell into the hands of Sky. They seem to know everything else. Deanna seems like a fitting suspect in that theft, doesn’t she.

      • And, why was she so reluctant to give them up?
        And, why are they available to some and not others?
        They must have some really pertinent information, otherwise there would be no need to withhold them.

        • I may be a little behind, but didn’t she say she was watching the trial to keep
          juan informed of something?
          THAT I could not believe, AT ALL!!!

          Is it possible he had them and gave them to her in exchange?

    • Okay, when would she have done this little forging with her cut and paste?????

      1) Before she killed him ????

      Answer: She would have had to be a great planner and there is no way that any of the evidence points to premeditation – the gas cans are a farce, the hair color is a farce….LOOK AT THE SCENE !!! This is not a planned killing…..Are you kidding me??? She wanted to see how fun it would be to take on heavyweight UFC lover hyped up boxer, Travis Alexander???? Instead of just shoot him when he sleeps??? Do you have any brain cells at all in your head???

      Plus she would have already had her story straight from day one of being interrogated….SELF DEFENSE !!!!

      2) After she killed him but before she was arrested?????

      Answer: If this was the case that she had carefully taken the many, many, many hours spent meticulously to cut and past together 10 LETTERS !!!! then when they came to arrest her again she would have had her story of self defense FROM THE BEGINNING !!!! Do you have any brain cells????

      3) After she was arrested but before she changed her story???

      Answer: Oh, I forgot, Jodi had access to a computer in her little cell and was freely able to pass the 10 letters along to the jail staff so they could read them too and then have them diligently mail them off to the the DT…..Yeah, I forgot that little tid bit of info, right !!!!!

      Answer: And for those of you who are thinking oh, she had Matt create these 10 LETTERS !!! Okay, how in the hell would Matt know what kind of details that needed to be in those letters and why in the HELL WOULD HE AGREE TO FORGE 10 LETTERS – COUNT THEM 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10…..ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MINDS !!! One maybe two, but 10 FORGET ABOUT IT !!!!!

      CONCLUSION: It has already been stated on record that these letters were close to being authenticated (80% – check me on this please) and even Sky Hughes’s first reaction after seeing them was something to the effect that she knew TA had problems but not to that extent…..instead of denying it and disputing it right from the get go and saying right off that there was no way that the letters were real……Just like their emails back and forth with TA were the truth…..

      JSS should have allowed both sides to bring in their handwriting experts and allow the jury to decide whether they were real or not…..she took that decision away from the jury incorrectly

      Many of the witnesses in this case were bullied into not testifying by the threats of JM….is this how the system is supposed to work?? To keep information and evidence away from the jury?? Or are we going to allow the jury to see all the evidence and let them decide what is true or not and let them make that determination??

      Forgeries are exceedingly difficult to pull off and QED (questioned document examiners) are very well able to spot even the most sophisticated forgeries….who would possibly forge not one or two but 10 letters??? No one would, period….

      • that should have been QDE

      • WOW great job BB! Your right, one letter is possible but still extremely hard but 10. . .NO WAY!

      • BB I have given this much thought. You would have to down load so many pages of TA’s Journal just to get the right wording. You could never be able to get the spaceing wright. It just wouldn’t be possible. What a bunchs of morons…..

        • And it would be obvious to any QDE (questioned document examiner) worth his salt that it was a cut and paste job………..

          • Isn’t that the truth!!! Don’t you want to know just who ch had look at them??? Ya like that ever happened.

    • Where do you find this stuff out Cindy?

      • Vicky, the states page. But I don’t advise going to it. The BS they say will make you sick knowing that there are people out there that are actually not capable of thinking for themselves. They really are evil morons.

    • These people are literally backward thinkers. First they decide what’s true and then they reverse engineer to arrive at proof of their “truth”. That’s exactly what they did to convict Jodi of premeditated murder. First they looked at the crime scene and based on no proof at all, decided she must have premeditated it and then worked backwards to assign premeditation to ordinary everyday behaviors. Then they use that as solid proof of their original unproven “truth”. Confirmation bias in its most basic form. (And now they sit around patting themselves and their fellow nitwits for being so friggin’ clever.)

      • Justus, well you know we are all vile bags or was it nags…lol. Crazy is that crazy does…

53. GOOD MORNING ALL! JODI ARIAS IS INNOCENT!! YEP! BELIEVE IT!
    😆 My good morning post went to the barn. . . not sure it will be found because a sneaky
    groundhog has been out there eating away at any thing in his path. I will wait and see.
    😯 Advice for today: Watch out for groundhogs!

    • Good morning R. Well he/she can eat anything with my name on cause I’m sure I’d just get in trouble if were posted. 🙄

      I just can not wait until the day Jodi Ann is walking out the doors. It will happen!!!

      They say we are to stupid to even look at the evidence. Data that’s all we have been doing for the past few years without blinders on…. Never onces have I seen a intelligent conversation or even debate regarding the evidence on the other side.

      • You would have gotten a big kick out of the attempts to blow the groundhog’s head off this morning. You might guess The dogs and I retreated to the house in complete safety. It is not a good thing to have one around the barn so we believe in search and destroy here! My husband used to be an awesome shooter but it reminded me of “Elmer Fudd and Bugs Bunny going a hunting”. Needless to say the groundhogs are enjoying their spring down here in the hills of TN. 😆

        • Sorry I couldn’t resist: https://youtu.be/QQcccIfy7mE

          • LOL.. Man we used to have some very violent cartoons… Yikes!!

        • R. Between your story’s and Al’s you have brought much laughter to us all. Thank you!!

    • Good Morning to All 🙂
      (((((Team Jodi)))))

      • Good morning BB!!!

        • Good morning .. onward and upward..

          • Morning Patty. So right!!!

54. BB, I have a very hypothetical question for you. Is there anything that could come up now that could stop JSS from sentencing Jodi on the 13th??

    • I don’t believe so unless the DT asks for a delay for some reason that the court would approve of….I think they waived the pre-sentencing evaluation if I am not mistaken….so I doubt it will be delayed…but we all know what JSS will do, right? She was tearing up at the first jury not being able to kill Jodi, and likewise was showing her emotion again when it mistrialed again….so she will sentence her to LWOP…….

      • Oh BB you give her too much credit. She was just up set that she had another Hung jury. Now I’m not delusional by any means but if she really wanted to kill Jodi she would have removed #17. Don’t you think?
        But then again that would have led to all kinds of motions I guess. Hummm maybe I am a little off…haha

55. SJ hummm getting a bit crowded out here…

56. x

57. New post up…

    Chris Hughes – Liar & Pedo-Hugger (trial testimony from 2013):
    https://jodiariasisinnocent.com/chris-hughes-liar-and-pedo-hugger-trial-testimony-from-2013-justice-for-jodi-arias

    SJ
    Team Jodi #WINNING <<<

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