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Shelf testing (how to do it – and how not to do it) [APRIL RE-POST]

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Happy Monday peeps! Check out the re-post & video below from April 2013 – and be sure to leave your comments below.

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I’m not too sure what to make of yesterday… but it appeared to be a day of sidebars & recesses topped off by an early finish.

In the midst of all that , we were treated to the Flores comedy show and his BS-riddled rebuttal testimony. He basically admitted to “recreating” the shelf set up in the closet, and doing some selective measurements to boot, but I don’t actually recall him saying he’d actually tested the shelf to see how it would react to weight.

Yes, he’d played around with it and took some photos, but wasn’t the reaction to weight the critical factor? Apparently not. Had he done that, then it would have proven Jodi’s testimony to be accurate.

I also mentioned yesterday about the shelf re-enactment a few weeks back on our favorite entertainment channel, HLN. A lot of people missed that, so here’s the brief video showing their re-enactment.

[hdplay id=202 width=500 height=300]

The important part to note is that when the dude momentarily stands on the shelf to retrieve the gun, he’s standing on the far right of the shelf with the holding peg directly under it. Had he stood on the middle of the shelf it would have been different altogether. No wonder Flores never weight tested it.

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Remember: WE ARE TEAM JODI – AND WE WILL BE VICTORIOUS in our quest for JUSTICE FOR JODI!

Leave your thoughts and comments below…

SJ
Team Jodi

If you would like to help Jodi by way of a financial donation to the official JAA APPELLATE FUND, click the Team Jodi link below for further details. All donations go directly to the fund for assisting with the legal fees associated with appealing Jodi’s wrongful conviction. Thank you for your support!

We Are Team Jodi ---- And We Will Be Victorious!

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238 Comments

  3. Good Morning Cyber Family HAPPY MONDAY!
    Just passin through, gotta get ready to get out the door and go to work.
    I’ll check in later, after I get back home.

    (((((TEAM JODI)))))
    (((((JODI♥)))))

    Ray in H-burg Va.

      • I think if the final battle happened close enough to the shower (and we don’t even know where it happened – perhaps he even had her backed into the shower), he may have stumbled in. Maybe Jodi even helped him in, in an attempt to wash off the wounds. I don’t think he necessarily dropped straight to the floor dead the very moment he received that slice under his chin*. I believe this is a more reasonable explanation than (1) someone dragged him into the shower or (2) someone carried him into the shower.

        *I really question that description of “she cut his throat.” Look at that wound (before the medical examiner got hold of it.) It’s a slice just under his chin, not back on his neck / throat. It may have hit a vital artery but she did not “cut his throat.”

        • The neck wound was six inches long and one and a half inches deep, transecting the entire upper airway, the strap muscles of the neck, the right jugular vein and the right carotid artery. It was no shallow slice, no matter what it looks like in the awkward shower pose. Nor does it seem AT ALL likely to me that wound like that could be accidentally inflicted with a simple kitchen knife that’s been used to cut upholstery rope… especially not in a face to face conflict.

          • Very interesting points, Journee. I will re-think my position on the description of the “chin” wound.

            But on the question of the shower, do you think it’s absolutely impossible for:

            (1) the final battle to have taken place in the shower? Let’s just say he backed her into the shower as they were fighting, or maybe she backed in holding the knife to try to keep him away and Travis, thinking that with his training and muscles, he can certainly overpower a knife-wielding female, not realizing he was about to walk into the equivalent of a whirling airplane propeller.

            (2) the final battle to have taken place just outside the shower and there being enough time to get him into the shower?

            • Bear in mind that no blood was found on the walls of the shower, another fact that was glossed over by the prosecution.

              The jury was hopelessly confused if they bought the “knifing in the shower” scenario.

              Most of the jury were older individuals. They had either seen or heard about the movie “Psycho” in the sixties, when they would have been impressionable children. It was truly shocking when it came out, but it left an indelible mark on the minds of people who saw it. Some couldn’t take a shower for years. Juan played the “Hitchcock” card here, portraying Jodi as having been in a similar frenzy.

              In the movie, the knife was never actually seen to make contact with flesh, ever. The audience just connected the dots and it was terrifying…in like manner, the prosecution asked the jury to put together a scenario in their own minds without ever having been walked through JM’s “knife first” scenario step by logical step. He was all over the place with various sketchy impressions, in exactly the same suggestive way that scene was story-boarded before it was put to film.

              The human brain will always try to make sense out of what it perceives. The law recognizes this. And that is why a conviction has to be reasonable. It cannot consist of a strong impression, no matter how vividly a person might experience an impression of an event they are asked to imagine.

          • Journee, I understand now the description “throat cut” but I think the position of the cut, under the chin, works in Jodi’s favor. If Travis was so weak when she supposedly intentionally “cut his throat” I would think she would have cut him down on the neck, not under his chin. And I would think anyone else intentionally doing it would do the same thing. To me that is an accidental cut, inflicted in the heat of battle, not a deliberate cut for either intentionally killing or performing a ritual.

            • To me, the placement of the cut – under chin as opposed to across neck – suggests the cut coming from above and behind.

        • And I think he lost too much blood in the bedroom – the blood soaked through the carpet and the pad to stain the sub-floor – to still be on his feet and fighting near the shower.

          • I agree with Journee. Too much blood loss to be able to walk moreover put up a fight. I still believe that the bedroom is where travis ended up falling and bleeding out.

            I remember what Maria also had stated: IF Jodi dragged travis to the bathroom, how is it possible that there are no bloody dragging marks on the tiles in the hallway… and I totally agree on that. How is it possible?

            • Dragging was never an option in my head especially the way the Prosecution wants us to believe this murder unfolded, knife wounds first that is.
              IF she had dragged him , there would have been dragging marks all over the place and there was none. There were blood pool, droops of blood and swooshes (if that’s the word I was aiming at) But the swooshes we re on the walls, not on the floor. Plus, there were no marks on Travis’ body denoting he was dragged to the shower. So… I have yet to find a convincing answer (for the voices screming in my head, LOL) as to HOW he was put into the shower.
              And I I can only speculate as to WHY.

              • I’ve been assuming all along that we couldn’t accurately read the blood on the tile floors due to the flooding.

                Does anyone know the extent of the flooding?

                It apparently didn’t make it over to the toilet alcove where the headshot blood is located. (Maybe uneven flooring?) Sounds like it made into the linen closet. And I thought the almost perfect lines of blood on both sides of the hallway were caused by the flood.

                And, does anyone know, was the water still running when his body was found?

          • Any chance the blood that was washed around with the flood could have ended up down there?

            Or could a different battle, before the knife fight) might have happened at that end of the hallway, with Travis still bleeding from the head wound? Are you saying there is evidence that there is so much blood loss there that he had to have been incapacitated at that point? (And let’s not forget who we’re dealing with: a very macho and determined man who has already attacked her twice within a minute, is beyond angry and has enormous amounts of adrenaline roiling around in his system.)

            • It doesn’t matter how macho or angry Travis was, how much adrenaline he might have had in his system. It’s about what a body is capable of doing after significant blood loss.

              Remember Jodi described to Flores that Travis was down on all fours, she was trying to help him up and he said “I can’t feel my legs.”

              Travis was DOWN, bleeding out on the bedroom floor. All of the smudging around that puddle is evidence of someone’s efforts to get him up again. If he couldn’t feel his legs, was he really fighting when he got back to the other end of the hall?

              • I agree.That smudging around that blood pool was done by Jodi’s socks- she was wearing socks that day, remember?

                • Maria, if those ‘smudges’ were caused by Jodi’s feet (in socks) then why are there no other footprints on any other places in the house? It’s just like that damn boot print, ffs! One boot print…

                  WTF? Was there a witch conference going on in that house and everyone was flying on their broomsticks? (being ironic and sarcastic)!

                  I still can’t figure out how those swooshed footprints as well as the boot print were only in one certain area… please! someone???!

                • Pandora –

                  That single boot print, to me, is the strongest evidence that SOMEONE was in that master suite AFTER Travis died but BEFORE he was ‘found’.

                  Someone who actually left several footprints and cleaned them up – didn’t need to clean the whole crime scene, no reason to pretend that nothing had happened there because there’s a dead body in the shower. The person ONLY needed to clean up evidence of his own presence at the scene, his foot prints. He just missed one.

              • Was Jodi’s leg comment during her intruder story? I understanding what you’re saying, that there may be grains of truth in her lie. I’m just wondering about the context.

                I wish we had a quantitative measurement of the blood, and an expert, using that measurement, to say what the state of the person had to have been.

                I’m not yet convinced he died there but I will be seriously mulling on your points.

                • Yes, it was during her interrogation with Flores when she had decided to tell the intruder story. She said she was trying to help Travis and that he told her he couldn’t feel his legs.

                • Looks like a grey sock to me. Jodi said she had to put her shoes on later, after she stopped the car in the desert and got water out of the trunk of the car.

                • Hmmmm Well, that figures. I’m sure Jodi just went along with him. We all know Martinez knows it all. ugh

      • Journee,

        Do you remember when there was a lot of talk about the way travis was found in the shower? He was in a position that implied that someone had placed him there after he was carried the ‘fireman’s carry’ way.

        IDK, if that is the case but it would be great if someone had knowledge about the ‘fireman’s carry’ and would be able to tell us if that could be a possibility.

          • I would think if he had been carried “fireman’s carry” he would have been placed down such that his back would be against the back wall (unless the “fireman” just turned around and dropped him).

            • Of course, I may be wrong about what “fireman carry” means? I’m envisioning across the back and across both shoulders. Maybe you mean just flung over one shoulder?

              • The body is around the carriers neck, carrier holding the an arm in one hand and a leg in the other… putting the body down puts the body perpendicular to the carrier. Very difficult to describe. Google it, there’s even a link showing how to do it. Travis was posed exactly right to have been put down from a fireman’s carry.

                • Can you actually imagine Jodi managing that? I can’t, for the life of me I can’t… I know Jodi’s body and brain we re overflowed with adrenaline and adrenaline can make you acquire superhuman power but hell, Travis was a BIG boy. There’s no way she could have carried him in a ”fireman’s carry”. (scratching head….)

                • Yes, that’s what I had in mind when I said I would expect him to end up in the shower with his back against the wall, curled toward the shower door. How does a fireman usually lay the person down after carrying them in that way?

                  And my biggest question of all: why in the world would anyone go to the trouble of doing that???

                • To the ground, it would be feet first, then butt, then shoulders/head lowered gently… feet end up to the left of the carrier, head to the right. Lowering him into that small 3×3 space, it makes sense, too, that the body would end up leaning away from the carrier and towards the back wall.

  5. How I wish we really knew what happened to Travis the day he died. I, like Mary feel there is way more to the story than we all can fathom. I truly believe that Jodi could not have killed Travis in the manner that she has been accused of and there is no way she could have positioned his body in the shower. I believe that yes there are others involved in his murder and they are walking free among the so-called friends and family of Travis Alexander. But, I pray they will be discovered for their deceitful and devious ways soon and Jodi will be freed. Just think if Jodi really killed Travis she would have done a much better job and there would have not been a clue anywhere to be found. She had every opportunity to kill him if she had really wanted to. I believe she loved him despite his horrible, abusive treatments to her. Jodi is the scapegoat for some unknown murderers. There are way to many unanswered questions about this whole tragedy. Too many suicides. Soo many lies. Soo much cover-up. The truth MUST prevail and hopefully soon. Justus Forusall is doing a great job providing the public with Reasonable Doubt and that may be the way for Jodi to be free again but will we really know who is responsible for the murder of Travis, I think not. There is tooo much money involved with the LDS church and PPL. IMO Jodi is guilty of only fighting for her life from a pathetic disgusting abuser, not a crime.
    FREE JODI ARIZONA! ((((((((JODI))))))

    • R. Love,

      I too wish that Jodi would remember everything that happened that day (although I think that her memory loss, is a good thing because she is such a sensitive woman – she wouldn’t bear to remember… it would break her heart more than it already is broken). I can’t even imagine how Jodi must feel, looking at the photos of the crime scene and of travis. It must be horrifying for her. And not being able to remember… and probably driving herself crazy thinking “I couldn’t have done that! It’s impossible…”

      Jodi, you are always in my kindest thoughts. My positive energy is sent to you daily to keep you strong, to keep you safe, to keep you fighting for your justice!

      (((((Jodi)))) ♥

    • There would be days (during the first couple of months of the trial ) that I used to entertain the idea of the intruder’s story. I wish it were true, however I believe the evidence on the crime scene fit Jodi’s recount of the events perfectly and besides, there’s no reason for us supporters to NOT believe in Jodi’s sworn testimony. Anyways….Everybody is entitled to their own opinions. Moving on 🙂

      Jodi’s dissociative amnesia is a blessing in disguise, in my opinion. It serves no legal purpose but it is God’s way of protecting Jodi. I don’t know if she could live with herself if she had full access to those horrific memories. And I don’t want her to be tormented even more that she already is.
      To me, I’d rather she never remembered. On a purely legal perspective, yes it would be (and still is) essential for her to remember because she was basically convicted on so much speculation… Remember February 28th? When Martinez attacked her viciously on the stand? Poor girl was forced to ”confess” to something she had NO recollection of.

      • I believe Jodi’s sworn testimony.

        But Jodi does not remember and did not swear to the particulars of Travis’ death.

        • Journee, I also believe Jodi’s testimony but only until she has a major block of time missing. I think she has told the truth to the best of her recollection. I am also thankful she can’t remember because I believe it could only bring her more pain and heartache. I pray every night that she will be freed from this horrible nightmare and remain strong. I hope she is getting some kind of therapy to help her, although I doubt they would allow that in AZ. ((((((JODI))))))

      • Maria,

        I do believe in Jodi’s sworn testimony!

        I believe in Jodi! I always have from day one and always will!!!

        I think that Jodi, was honest when she testified that she killed Travis but there are many ways a person can think that they killed someone WITHOUT actually, physically killing them! A good example is my baby sister, who I told you all that her husband died in January. Well, my sister is going through not only his death but she honestly believes that she caused his death or killed him because she didn’t make him go to the doctor sooner! All my sisters & I are trying our best to convince her that it is NOT her fault! She had a hard time convincing him to let her make the apt. for him the Monday morning that she could not wake him up! He was unresponsive & died later at the hospital from a heart attack! She may have to go to therapy, I don’t know because I have never experienced what she has!

    • ((( Team JODI))) She loved him to a fault. I think her having no boundaries, having low self ego. Jodi went along with TA’s sexual deviant behavior. I believe she loved him, and would never have INTENT NOR MOTIVE TO HURT HIM. I don’t think , a normal argument between the two …caused JA to wake up one morning and say …I’m going to plan a road trip, have sex with the T-dog then I will take his pictures and have a knife fight. Hmmmm then I will leave evidence all over ,so everyone else will blame me, and be right!
      Great premeditated felony murder. (Rolling MY EYES!)
      Team JODI !!!! Still here !!!
      Madeline xxoo

      • True. IF Jodi premeditated this, then she is the WORST at that LOL!

        The crime scene and the rest of it do not denote premeditation of any kind. IF she had planned this trip and this murder, she would have done away with it the minute she entered the house and Travis HAD HIS BACK turned on her. Or while he was sleeping. Period. I can’t believe the Defense didn’t harp on that more so as to create reasonable doubt in the jurors minds.

        Premeditation means careful consideration of all ”variables” ; anything that may go wrong or anything unexpected. The Prosecution tried to make us believe that she was diligent enough to borrow gas cans (ummm, even borrowing instead of buying new ones shows LACK of premeditation but whatever!), to turn off her cell phone etc but when she arrived there and commited the murder she left a hopelessly messed up crime scene AND the photos of herself behind. Come on…
        I still cannot believe how those 12 idiots bought that ridiculous theory. Not to mention all the other stuff Martinez claimed.

        • Amen Maria and Mad, a first grader could have done better. Travis would have never known what was coming if JODI had planned to murder him. Travis is really to blame for his own murder (his bad behavior started his downward spiral) IMO by the way he treated and abused Jodi and the other women he knew. He wanted what he couldn’t have. GMAB! SMH! There was NO premeditation at all, no none ever! Reasonable Doubt is screaming from every corner of this crazy circus trial.
          Jodi deserves freedom. PERIOD.

        • Maraki mou, I totally agree!

          Malice aforethought or premeditated murder is the crime of wrongfully and intentionally causing the death of another human being (also known as murder) after rationally considering the timing or method of doing so, in order to either increase the likelihood of success, or to evade detection or apprehension.

          Homicide is “the killing of one human being by another”. Murder is a “criminal homicide that involves both intent and premeditation”(Benekos, 220).

          Although laws vary by country, there are circumstances of exclusion that are common in many legal systems.

          • Self-defense: acting in self-defense or in defense of another person is generally accepted as legal justification for killing a person in situations that would otherwise have been murder. However, a self-defense killing might be considered manslaughter if the killer established control of the situation before the killing took place. In the case of self-defense it is called a “justifiable homicide”.

          • Unlawful killings without malice or intent are considered manslaughter.

          I am so sick and tired of people trying to ‘pin’ the title of ‘murderess’ on Jodi!

          Jodi is an above average smart woman and if she had premeditated killing travis she would have done it methodically (did I spell that right?), without making a mess and definately not leaving any evidence that placed her at the murder scene! She did nothing to hide her visit to travis! Her car was on his driveway for over 24 hrs, ffs! Anyone could have seen it (neighbours, roommates, friends)!

        • Maria,

          I honestly believe those 12 jurors (majority of them) based their verdicts of M1 and Premeditation on JM’s hyped up lies about Jodi, the reactions of TA’s family, who were in clear view of the jurors and fear of the public’s retaliation.

  6. REPOSTING COMMENT FROM PREVIOUS THREAD:

    Pandora says:
    March 27, 2014 at 11:59 am

    About the shelves:

    I have a large bookcase with ‘flowing shelves’ that are placed on 4 tiny metallic bits (something like the closet shelves). The difference is that my shelves are double the length of the closet shelves, thus more books can be stored on then = to more weight added on the shelves. On one of the shelves I have a whole set of encyclopedia books on it (imagine the weight).

    Many times I needed to reach something from the top shelf, so I kinda used the first 2-3 shelves as a ladder. I am almost the same size and weight of Jodi. Those shelves not only held the books weight but mine too. So, don’t let those little metallic bits trick you! They can hold a hell of a lot of weight! The material of the shelves is like the kind of wood used in most of IKEA furniture (thick plywood). And yet, that too was strong enough to hold the weight…

    Shelf theory (not being able to hold Jodi’s weight) debunked.

    • And as I think Journee pointed out (sorry if it was someone else):

      A shelf is much stabler if it already has weight on it. So, Jodi stepping on a shelf and it tipping over is very unlikely. (Let’s not forget that Jodi is very thin and her weight is ‘feather’ catagory) 😉

      • And as someone pointed out, placing one’s foot on a shelf, while jumping up holding on to the top shelf, puts a small fraction of weight on the shelf, especially if someone is up and then down in a fraction of a second. She wasn’t hanging around on the shelf, just using it as a little extra leverage as she jumped up. Her resistance to gravity was accomplished by jumping, not by placing her full weight on the shelf.

        • WLOPEZ4JAII described the shelf/weight moment as “dynamic”. Also, I’ve never made such a move myself without using one hand to grab the top shelf as soon as I could to assist in the lift and for stability. So the full 120 pounds of Jodi was on that lower shelf for less than 1/2 of a second.

      • There were so many answered questions, so many things that were FRIVOLOUSLY OVERLOOKED during the investigation yet *that* was the only thing Flores and Kermit went out of their way to double check/investigate so as to rub on Jodi’s face????? Gimme a fucking break!
        Esteban Fauna is LAUGHABLE!!!!

        • Maria, that’s exactly what I was thinking when they did the test! It looks even more disingenuous now, doesn’t it?!!

          And Horn and Flores, unbeLIEVEable!

          Like Laurel and Hardy – “That’s another fine mess you’ve gotten us into!” or, Pitt and Clooney in “Burn After Reading”.

  7. Team Jodi,

    I don’t know if you all have ever seen this letter that Jodi wrote Ryan Burns from jail, I hadn’t, so here is the link if you haven’t seen the letter yet.

    I thought it was such a beautiful letter, but of course it would be because Jodi wrote it! She says in the letter to Ryan that his life was never in danger with her and that the only danger Travis was ever in because of her was “spiritual danger” which she said they were both guilty of endangering each other. I know the “spiritual danger” Jodi meant was because of the sexual aspect of their relationship, since they were both Mormon where sex, in any way, is a sin before marriage.

    http://gretawire.foxnewsinsider.com/2013/05/09/jodi-arias-letter-to-her-ex-lover-ryan-burns/

    (((((JODI))))) (((((TEAM JODI)))))

    • Thanks you ((Mary Williams)) for posting that above link to (((Gretawire))) site & specifically to Jodi’s very beautiful letter to Ryan Burns. ..On that very link I have posted several comments in total support of the innocence of Jodi. ..At present there are 391 comments (but only about a dozen are mine). ..At present the (comment sorting) can be selected by (newest or best or oldest). ..My comments are easily found by either sorting by (newest or best). ..My username handle there is (((WLOPEZ4JAA))) but some comments may be just (((WLOPEZ))) that was ((before I realized)) that name was taken already & I switched to WLOPEZ4JAA. ..An excerpt from one of my comments on that link is : …Mr Ryan Burns, I do not think that Jodi …wanted to meet you for any possible realistic love interest ….I believe that she saw …. you as a very big guy … …You were going to be her BRICK WALL of separation between her & Travis. …. etc etc … …he had a financial hold on her ….. etc etc….
      ……Thanks Mary for posting that (Gretawire link), … I first found it by google: gretawire

      • When I see on TV that camera picture of Travis in the shower, probably angry, confused, revengeful, ….I think that perhaps Jodi said to him something like: …Thanks for the offer Travis but that shower stall is (((too small for two))) & I already took my shower & all dressed now & I really got to get out of here, I promised my new boyfriend, Ryan, that I would see him today & I am late already….. ………OOoops, the camera, wait I caught it, ….oooops….. what? …what do you mean ???…….Why are you looking at me like that ???……………..

      • I read it last year I think, while the trial was unfolding or shortly aftewards. It goes to show how considerate a person Jodi is. Too bad that Ryan guy is too much of a doofus!!!!

        • I remember that letter too. I also remember how upset Jodi was because it got ‘out’ for public view. It was something personal and she knew that many people would mock it and twist her sincerity and honesty into something ugly!

          That is one of the reasons we should NEVER post anything Jodi writes us on the internet.

          ((((((((((Jodi)))))))

          • Nope, never! We never EVER share anything that Jodi writes to or shares with us.
            Which reminds me to tell you guys that if someone sees a screenshot or a copy/paste of one of her letters to please inform one of us. Jodi does NOT want her letters going viral.

      • You’re welcome, WLOPEZ4JAA!

        I saw your posts in support of our sweet Jodi!!! 🙂

        (((((JODI))))) (((((R. Love))))) (((((WLOPEZ4JAA)))))

        (((((TEAM JODI)))))

    • Thank you Mary for sharing this. The letter is very touching. As we all here know Jodi was not a threat to anyone and especially not Ryan Burns. Detective Flores as usual, got it all wrong didn’t he! Once again, Jodi shines through as a light of strength burning brightly despite the attempts that have been made to destroy her. Stay Strong Jodi We Are With You! (((((((JODI)))))))

      • Your welcome, R. Love.

        I just happened to come across it as it was out for public viewing and I thought it was such a beautiful letter to Ryan Burns and I figured all Jodi supporters here would appreciate it as much as I did!

        I would never share anything personal from Jodi to me though because I know Jodi would not want that.

        (((((JODI))))) (((((JODI)))))

        • Mary, it’s not a problem! That letter has been out for around a year. Yes, your intentions are good! I just made a comment about privacy of any OTHER letter Jodi writes to supporters.

          (((((Mary)))) ♥

          • Thanks, Pandora! I was hoping that I didn’t do anything wrong! I would never want to post anything that was not to the best interest of Jodi or you or any other supporter of Jodi!

            Whew!!! 🙂

            (((((Pandora))))) I wish I knew how to make a heart – I would put ten here to show you a little of how much I respect, love and value you!!!

            • Awwwww, thank you Mary for your kind words!

              Ok, free lesson for heart-making! LOL:

              & hearts ; (without the space between them). Good luck!

              (((((Mary)))) ♥

  8. In that photo of the bathroom sink, there is a towel to the right of the sink. Is that blood on the towel? Did Travis also dab his face with the towel all while Jodi was supposedly stabbing him in the back?

    • If what I’m looking at is blood, it’s only a contained spot of it, so could be just dripped there (big drip, yes, but I only see the one spot). My monitor is getting pretty dark, though, it’s getting harder and harder for me to see some images clearly.

        • Could be, I can’t really see it that clearly… given the smears on the countertop, though, it seems the cloth would show signs of being handled with bloody hands. It looks to me like it’s still folded neatly. Is it? And there’s a towel underneath it with a brown stripe?

          • I believe that’s all one piece, a mildly crumpled face cloth. As If he picked it up folded, dabbed his face and then set it down, still folded…

            • In the pic I’m looking at, I see no blood ON the towel which would be there had he touched it. He was bleeding from the gunshot wound by the time he got to the sink and as Journee pointed out there are smears on the countertop. IF he had picked it up there would be a lot of blood on that cloth. I think he was so dazzed by the gunshot that he didn’t even notice there was a towel next to him.

            • On the other hand, that could well be a towel. If you turn the photo sideways it looks like a facecloth draped over a towel as they might be arranged on a towel rack. What looks like a bloody smear on the face cloth could be his bloody hand removing it from the towel rack. Or it could be him dabbing his face.

              • It appears that the blood might be on the inside of the wash cloth and it is folded backward because the label is showing. So if Travis used it he neatly folded it inside out and laid it carefully down while someone was stabbing away at him.?. Weird

              • Justus, I was also noticing that there is not one splatter of blood on the mirror???

                You know that if the blood spatters went as far back as they did on the sink, at least some would have splattered on the mirror! I clean our bathroom sink here all the time and there is always something on the mirror just from brushing teeth & spitting in the sink!

    • OMG! Justus! Less than 2 hours ago, *a good friend* and I were talking about the sink pics! We didn’t actually discuss the towel but we did find it weird that between 3-4 different pictures of the double sink area, the stuff on the sink counter (bottles, gels, toothbrush, statue, etc) were tidily placed in different places.

      Yes, I understand moving something to ‘mark’ the evidence but this totally showed that someone actually took the time to tidy the stuff up while moving them… Moreover, nothing is knocked over… I had read that some cray-crays believed that Jodi was ‘stabbing’ travis while he was looking in the mirror: if there was a fight there, wouldn’t it be more messy? And finally, does it seem weird to anyone that the left side of the double sink is TOTALLY clean? Not one drop of blood, nothing… everything tidy and in place…

      • Yes, because if she was standing there stabbing away at him blood would be thrown everywhere and it is not. Travis would not have stood and watched her stabbing him in the back in the mirror. . .no one would have. They would have turned and fought back.

      • The misplacement of objects around the right sink was extensivelly discussed here some time ago, if memory serves me right. I had asked the exact same question: why are objects moved? People here said that this is what police does in order to place those yellow evidence marking tapes (?) or something to that effect. Maybe Journee can shed some light…
        ((((((( Journee ♥ )))))))

        • I think something was said to the effect that one of the reasons they photograph the scene before they start marking evidence at all is to preserve and record the untouched scene, because marking and taking evidence might require them to move things around. That’s what Connor explained, anyway.

          • Maria, Journee, thanks. I realize that things do get moved around but this was weird because every picture has them in different places, very tidy and not pushed to the side…

      • Yes, it seems very weird, Pandora! That’s why I believe the crime scene “setterupper’s” (my word – lol!) did a very poor job of it!!!

        • Oops, sorry, my comment “I do” is in response to your question above, Pandora, about does anyone think it’s weird about the stuff being so tidy on double sink! 🙂 Very strange!!!

  9. Question: if Travis supposedly bled out and died at the bedroom end of the hallway, how do we explain the two trails of blood up and down the hallway?

    • One trail – Travis got himself to the bedroom while he was bleeding.

      Second trail – Travis got back to the bathroom *somehow*!

      • It’s not 100% clear to us and we cannot be absolutely certain because Jodi can’t remember (and we of course REFUSE to believe in the bloodthirsty-killer-chasing-her-victim-down-the-corridor theory).

        However, I tend to agree with Journee when trying to picture it. He lunged at her at her like a linebacker and the gun went off,he threw her down but she managed to break away so he chased her screaming ”FKYB”. It was during this first chasing her down that the first blood trail was created and somehow they ended up back in the bathroom and he left the second trail. I don’t think he bled out on the carpet; in my head ”bleed out” means the neck wound which doesn’t sound right because in the last 2 photos he seems to be holding his head up.

        • Maria, Journee is in the camp that believes he bled out and died in the bedroom. I’m more inclined to believe he went down the hall and then back up and it was in the bathroom where the final battle (with the knife cut under the chin that hit his jugular) took place (maybe even over near the shower.)

          • No, Justus – I never said he died in the bedroom. I said he was down and bleeding out on the bedroom floor, and that he’d lost too much blood there to still be on his feet and fighting near the shower.

            • So you do think he possibly made it back to the bathroom under his own steam (just not with enough strength to fight)? If so, then couldn’t he have also made it into the shower under his own steam (and perhaps with Jodi’s help)?

              I still can’t come up with an logical reason why anyone would carry (or drag) him into the shower. For what purpose?

              • Possibly.

                I don’t know why Travis is in the shower. It seems to me to be a lot of effort for anyone to have gone to, to get him there – Travis or Jodi or someone who came along after. To what purpose?

                • Possibly part of the great cover-up and someone placing things like the camera into the washer like Jodi did that!? She would have never left the camera anywhere in that house. . .she is too smart. It was someone setting the scene to paint her as the murder. I know I said I would be quite, sorry.

                • eh – why ‘get me to a shower so I can wash up’ instead of ‘go call 911’?

                • Seriously, though….

                  He’s lost a lot of blood, he’s stumbling and barely able to stand, we believe he’s either collapsed against or fallen ON Jodi again and she panicked thinking he was still attacking so she hit him in the back nine times with the knife. Where the hell is he going?

                • I understand that it’s all not funny but I just visualized Travis stopping the fight to check himself out to see how bad things were and then continuing to fight and then thinking he better clean himself up before he called for help. Travis appeared to be OCD so it all just seems so weird. Maybe he is the one who was cleaning up the scene. Cleaning up the floor. Just think, Travis started a fight over nothing important and was losing the fight but he stops to check himself out and then continues and is still losing so he wants to take a shower instead of getting help. Could it be possible he never thought he was in any danger because he believed he was invincible? They had been in fights before but never anything like this one was. I believe that he was in shock that Jodi was actually finally standing up to him and fighting back. One can only take so much before turning the tide. IMO

                • Oh, I wasn’t scolding you for laughing, R. Love – never! It made me chuckle too. Sometimes I can’t help but laugh at the absurdity that abounds.

                  But I seriously do wonder ‘why the shower’?

                  Why would someone ELSE put him there? And a thought occurred to me – what if it was a way to move the body (and the smell) as far from the other occupants of the house as possible? And I remember one of the roomies talking on HLN about noticing that Travis’ bathroom light was left on – they could see it from the back yard when they took Napoleon out. My bathroom light and exhaust fan are on one switch – turn the light on and the fan comes on.

                • That could be the reason the smell wasn’t detected but I still believe the roommates could smell it if the body was there. Remember my freezer full of fish that spoiled? OMG it was horrendous! I just want to pull my hair out trying to figure it all out. And, do you remember if the detectives ever talked to the neighbors to see if they noticed anything unusual , I don’t and I think that is weird. I had a neighbor one time that burnt his house down (in fact he made a living that way) but detectives, insurance investigators . . .everyone was checking up and down the street on him. One neighbor remembered hearing the sound of chopping wood at 3am and it so happened the floor had been chopped up in the hallway where there was an opening to the attic. Case closed! People do notice things and with 5 days passing I’m sure one of them must have seen people in and out of that house. Unless, we are dealing with Aliens who had been beamed up and down into the T-Diggety-Dog’s house. Weird. (((((JOURNEE)))))

                • Hmm… I will have to look at Flores report again to see if there’s any mention of canvassing the neighbors.

                  I do remember Flores telling Jodi in interrogation that neighbors had seen her there that day – but of course we know that Flores lies.

            • Pandora –

              WAaaay up there ^^^^^ I offered my best answer to your foot print question.

        • I think the blood in the sink came immediately after the gun shot – Jodi took off, Travis stood at the mirror trying to figure out why his nose and mouth had filled with blood, might not have even realized he was shot, maybe thought he broke his nose in the fall. Then he went after her and the knife struggle ensued.

          And I still think the neck wound might have been post mortem. When I look at the body in the shower, and see the blood crusted around the wound, the blood still on Travis’ face coming from his nose and mouth, I have to wonder WHY there’s no blood on Travis’ chest – his chest and belly should be covered with it if he was alive – or even dead for a few minutes – when the throat was coat. Yes, I know it’s presumed that he was washed, but blood still came from his nose and mouth after washing, why not his neck wound?

            • None of it makes sense except that there was someone else lurking around in the dark corners of this mystery. Just thinking outloud. . . . I’ll be quite now. The towel to me looks like someone had positioned it there on top of a bloody smear.

              • Yes, R. Love…

                there’s someone who knows why Travis was found in his shower with a slashed throat that didn’t bleed.

                • Yep, R. Love, I agree!

                  That’s because I believe his neck was broke before his throat was slit to minimize blood spatter and breaking of the neck is ritualistic.

        • He could have bled out from the knife wound to the chest that cut/severed the inferior vena cava, the main vein that returns blood back to the heart. Also he would not be able to hold his head up right with his throat cut, that would have also damaged muscles necessary to hold the head, allowing it to fall backwards. IMHO the throat wound was made post mortem.

          Ray in H-burg Va.

  10. Yet another question: If Jodi had so viciously attacked Travis with a knife for well over a minute, wouldn’t we expect to see cast off blood around the bathroom? Of course we know she wasn’t doing that but I would consider that one more piece of forensics to prove the State’s theory is completely full of sh*t.

    • Hmmmm prosecutor misconduct? 10 years!! Interesting, AZ seems to have major problems with their prosecutors don’t they. Thanks Maria 🙂

      • Duncan was the original judge on Jodi’s case. Did we ever get the scoop on how it ended up with the SS Incompetent?

        • Ohh, that’a why her name sounded so familiar! You’re right. But I don’t know why Noddy ended up presiding over Jodi’s trial either…
          Maybe because Jodi never managed to get her stars aligned. Not once in life. No matter the circumstances. Not even now when she’s fighting for her life.
          🙁

          • Every day, I say the same thing: Jodi can’t get a break… it’s as if the universe is working against her! ffs!

            Ok, we all have seen that pickles did a piss poor job in keeping a ‘clean courtroom’ in Jodi’s case and we can say and point out all the shit she allowed until we turn blue and never change a thing… BUT how can everyone that is part of the Justice system in the USA turn a blind eye??? HOW?

            Isn’t there anyone bold enough to go against martinez and AZ justice and say: “Hell no! Justice has not been served! All I saw was a 3 ring circus show with all the clowns and the acrobats giving the performance of their lifetime! ”

            It is quite upsetting that such a proud country with equality of opportunity, justice, freedom of speech and many other values allows this injustice to prevail. And all this in the name of winning???!!!! FOR SHAME! Don’t get me wrong, I love America and as I’ve said before I have visited many times. I am just so disappointed in the justice system there.

            Yes, they can hate Jodi with all their being BUT just because they don’t like someone doesn’t mean they have to approve and encourage injustice!

            Jodi, we will continue in fighting for justice for you! Be strong and never give up!

            • Pandora, you are absolutely right this not the way our justice system is supposed to work. You are presumed innocent until the prosecution proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that you are guilty. The way I saw the trial Jodi was guilty when she walked into the court room, and she had to prove that she was innocent. That should be enough to get the verdict over turned, but sadly it probably won’t. HLN and the like had her guilty back in 2008, there was no way she was ever going to get a fair trial.

              Ray in H-burg Va.

    • Maria, thanks for the link! I read it this morning.

      There are so many similarities to the way the frog acted in the courtroom in Jodi’s trial.

      Only pickles would be fine with over looking all of his (kermits) tandrums… and it is so obvious that he was there NOT seeking for justice but to win at any cost! He should be ashamed of himself. No ethics, no morals whatsoever!

      I just hope it doesn’t take 10 years for someone to speak up about all the BS and shenanigans in Jodi’s trial.

      ((((((Jodi – be strong girlfriend)))))) ♥

      • PFF KERMIT THE FROG…….MY BIG ‘OLE BUTT. Mr. Martinez, SIT DOWN, SHUT UP, AND QUIT TRYING TO RUIN JODI’S LIFE……….AWWW HE JUST MAKES ME SO MAD….I could eat a 50 pound box of roofing nails, and shit a barbed wire fence!!!!!!!

        Ray in H-burg Va.

  12. Good morning…well you all have such brilliant minds. I have been reading all the post every day some I agree with some I don’t.

    I want to take a trip back to the gun shot. I think that TA did come at her and tackle her and she hit her head…… he went to the sink and saw the blood and just flipped out. (now remember the knife? He left it on the counter in the bathroom after cutting the rope) He came after Jodi with it but in the struggle he drops it. She grabs it with him on top of her…she starts stabbing him with it. Over his shoulder and that is why the wounds are not deep and in a upward cut. If she had been stabbing him while he was at the sink from behind the blade would have have had a down position instead of a up… I forgot now what ME brought this to our attention. The cuts were thinner on the bottom and thicker on the top of each one.

    I do not believe for one minute that NO ONE heard the gun go off in that house…I also do not believe that Jodi did all of this alone. I do not believe that Jodi lied on the stand up to a point. I think she really does not recall what really went on when the fight started. It was just power of suggestion…………

    KN job was to defend his client. But it was Jodi’s right to say what she wanted and didn’t want. That is were things got bad between them. Jodi never wanted the sex tape brought into court. She never wanted anything that would cast a bad lite on TA. No lawyer would be ok with the interviews and the tweets and so on. I think that is why he made the comments he did. But remember Jodi’s smile when he said that. In the end it was Jodi’s trial and she did call the shoots…… The goal was at the begging was to save her from the DP….not to get her free……..We all just had hope that she would walk out of there a free woman.

  13. If you notice KN used to sit next to Jodi when JW was up…..but something happened between them and he didn’t even look at her towards the end. I’m sure they had knock down fights about how to handle things and kn just gave in…….It was Jodi’s right to say how things should go……

  14. I believe KN thought it would be a fast trial. That Jodi was guilty and he didn’t really care what happened to her one way or another. KN appears to have the Good Ole Boy attitude (to me) and the woman is usually always wrong. He could care less. KN came across as unprepared and incompetent. Very lazy. The frog did a wonderful job hopping all around him. I did think JW cares about Jodi and wanted to help all she could but she was handicapped being paired with KN.

    • I have to agree with R.Love.

      KN didn’t bother to actually put all his effort into Jodi’s case. As ‘first chair’ I believe that he could have done a better job. He had so many opportunities in cornering the prosecution but never actually gave it a shot… (e.g. Why the hell weren’t the roommates called to the witness stand? Why?)

      JW did her best in trying to defend Jodi.

      If Mr. Jose Baez was first chair and Jeniffer was second chair, I highly doubt kermit would have pulled any of the stunts he did. Mr Baez would have ripped him a couple, settling him down…

      • Even if Ms. Willmott was first chair and Nurmi was second chair, I think the outcome would have been different. I believe that Ms. Willmott really cares.

        Ray in H-burg Va.

        • I think Jennifer was more focused on and had a better feel for the *case* – an inclination to do as we do here, to try to figure out what exactly happened, how and why, and I think she could have presented a very different picture for the jury – even without the help of a crime scene analyst. She could have given the jury a scenario MUCH more believable (and supported by the crime scene) than Martinez did.

          But, given the outside influences, I suspect the best she might have gotten would be a hung jury. And next time the state would be ready for her.

      • If kermit had been first chair, Jodi would have been acquitted, no doubt about it!
        Kermit would have ripped DeMarte a new one on cross!
        Sadly kermit played for the wrong team.

        • Kermit plays dirty. I wouldn’t want Jodi’s victory to depend on his wicked shenanigans.

    • Nurmi’s questioning of Jodi about the relationship was sensitive. Many, many individuals commenting during the trial proceedings here complained that asking Jodi about the intimate aspects of the relationship was backfiring, mainly because they perceived that Jodi was still in a too-protective mode with respect to TA. KN asked questions that left her the latitude to burst open and cry that he mistreated her, but that she loved him, would have done anything for him, and never meant to hurt him. But THAT would have made it appear to the jury to be a crime of passion – which requires a different burden of proof. As straight self-defense, the burden remained on the prosecution.

      With all in agreement that the gunshot was first, KN had set off to defend Jodi believing that she had a good chance to succeed in her claim.

      Once the trial was underway, with the defense team limping along on damaged footing after the gunshot was declared to have been last, there were countless opportunities for JA to elaborate on the humiliation and TA’s lousy treatment of her, but obviously, Jodi would only have been speaking from her particular point of view. She was extremely aware – and always had been – that any disparaging comments she made could have been taken as a motive.

      KN and JW brought in all the evidence they could. But Jodi had to go it alone, as victims of DV usually do. Given daily displays of injustice while the trial proceeded, I am amazed that she held up as well as she did. That strength is also an indication of how JA was able to hold her own with TA. No doubt it confounded and infuriated him.

  15. Well KN put in allot of years to not care. besides the fact that he would not be stupid enough to commit professional suicide. No Jodi begged KN not to quit when he wanted to because he wanted to start his own Law office way back before the trial. You know it really does not matter rather he thinks she is guilty or not….this is the real world, he just has to defend her to the best of his ability…… Now if the out come would have been different and I’m not talking about Jodi being freed …he would be wonderful. We all know that crap that went on in that court room…there was no way Jodi was going to get a fair trial.

    I would pick KN for my lawyer if I didn’t have a few in my family…… and I lived God forbid in AZ.

    I respect your views so I only ask that you do mine…….Oh by the way I didn’t just come out of the wood work here…..I watched every day of the trial and was here every day.

    • Hey there Cindy! Glad to see you’re around!

      I am going to have to disagree with you…

      “…he just has to defend her to the best of his ability” you say. I ask you this: how is it possible for an attorney to start off by saying: ‘6 out of 7 days I don’t like Jodi either…’? What does this show the jury? That he is there just because he has no other choice. Besides being a ‘good attorney’ you have to persuade the jury that you trust, believe and care for your client! WTF?

      I am sure that Nurmi’s abilities as an attorney are good, it’s just that he didn’t show them while defending Jodi. Most of the time he was laying back in his chair, rocking back and forth, with a face expression saying: ‘I am so bored. When do we stop for lunch?’

      Nurmi did do harm to himself and to his practice: he showed that he is indifferent and doesn’t have passion in defending his clients…

    • Cindy, I don’t think you’d want KN as your attorney if you were claiming abuse since in his normal practice (dare I say mindset) his job is to convince jurors that women who accuse men of abuse are liars.

      • In his normal practice, I expect he usually negotiates plea deals. The majority of sex crimes never see a court room.

  16. Have you EVER heard of any defendant in the middle of a high profile murder trial giving interviews or tweeting or putting mgs on face book? I honestly feel that is what the problem was between Jodi and KN was.

    • No, I haven’t. But Jodi, does suffer from some (IMO) personality disorders and also was suffering from the abuse from Travis and also his death. She should have never ever talked to anyone without an attorney and I’m sure she didn’t know the extent Travis and his “friends?” had gone to paint her as a villain. Jodi did have a bad case of diarrhea of the mouth but that is not a crime and fighting for your life from an abusing (secret) ex boyfriend who was always calling for a booty-call is not a crime. Yes Jodi should have kept her mouth shut but how many of us have been in a situation like her. . . not me. I still think Jodi would have had a better chance had KN never been involved with her case. But, I do respect you and your thoughts too. (((((((Cindy Jewel))))))) I believe all of us here love Jodi and want her free!!!!

  17. I agree with you on the PD. I also believe that Jodi have major trust issues. I truly understand why Jodi kept talking to the media. She didn’t trust ANYONE. She also was going to defend TA if it was the last thing she did………God help her she loved him. But I do not hate TA. He also had a BP and anger issues along with a list of other things. If you go back to how he was brought up you can see why he turned out the way he did. I think allot of people covered up for his behavior and also made allot of money off from him. I honestly think that Jodi was the only person who really knew TA……

    I do not believe that Jodi killed TA…….she may have shot him but she did not kill him…..

    • I know that Travis had a hard life but there is no excuse for his behavior and treatment of people who loved. He knew Jodi loved him and he used that against her. I do not hate Travis and I really feel sorry for him. I have unfortunately lost all sympathy for his family and friends. I believe they only wanted to sing his praises because they stand to make money from it. I am sick to death of the rolling eyes and disgusting looks they all gave Jodi. If they would stop for one minute and see what a huge mistake has been made then and only then will I feel any sympathy for them. They are not sorry for one damaging thing they have said or done to try to ruin a woman who was in love with Travis and would have jumped over the Moon if he had asked her. She did everything in her power to protect his image, false as it was. They should all be ashamed for spewing their hatred towards her. It is sad to think they don’t even realize that there is possibly a murder among them. They should be looking under every stone (or boulder) that they cross because I, IMO feel Jodi could have not committed this murder herself or with help. Somebody else is to blame. Who is it? Can they sleep at night? Who do they pray to? The truth will prevail so they best prepare for it. Maybe they should put PPL on speed dial.

  18. 176 reads so far: http://justice4jodi.wikispaces.com

    Also, I added this to the section on “Jodi the Pathological Liar”;

    “So one might ask, why did she lie for two years? But those who are able to put themselves in her shoes understand completely. Think about it. How would you like your whole life (intimate and otherwise), put under a microscope, and then paraded out before the eyes of the world? (If you are one whose life is so holy that you’d be perfectly willing to do that, then you should no doubt be canonized.) She also couldn’t remember the full sequence of events that triggered her to do such a horrendous thing and was ashamed that she had gone that far, no matter what the circumstances. She ultimately was willing to plea to second-degree murder and silently go away to receive her punishment but the State would have none of it.”

    • Amen Justus Amen. They want her head on a silver platter. Disgusting. These seems to really come down to who is going to make the most money off of this trial. . . The State of AZ, The LDS Church or PPL. Seems the State of AZ is ahead, for now anyway.

        • Justus, you nailed it perfectly: A “mean-spirited farce” is EXACTLY what it is. I also loved what you wrote in your Pathological Liar section. Beautiful!!

        • I’ve been thinking that the citizens in Arizona deserve to pay for this farce of a trial. They have set back and let their justice system go down the toilet so I don’t feel sorry for them (they have constructed this mess) BUT in a Death Penalty case we all in this country are having to pay for the ignorance and arrogance of AZ. . to me that is one of the sad things! Arizona needs to clean up their courtrooms and shed themselves of these mean-spirited, money grubbing, forget the truth and corrupt prosecutors. Everybody in this world deserves a fair trial and HLN and AZ have seen to it that Jodi Arias will not have one. She was convicted before she was even arrested. Cut and Dry from the start. Be it the Mormon church or the PPL who are behind this farce they better watch their step because the whole world is watching and taking notes on their justice system and treatment of innocent human beings. FREE JODI!!!!

  19. I agree with you, Cindy, about KN’s being very uncomfortable with Jodi’s use of media.

    It was an officer at the jail who encouraged Jodi to do the “Inside Edition” interview. Jodi should not have done that knowing that that version of her story would only mislead. She showed a lack of sophistication in understanding how ravenous media are – and more importantly – how such an appearance would complicate her defense. After all, she said in sworn testimony that she gave that interview over the objections of her then attorney. Of course, she spent most of the interview reminiscing about how wonderful and generous a person TA was. In light of her later claim of self-defense, the interview was a sincere effort to make it perfectly clear that she had no motivation to do him any harm.

    Now Jodi is much more savvy about public perception. She also understands the media’s 24/7 thirst for material.

    R. Love, remember that TA’s friends liked Jodi at first. She also formed her own set of friends in Mesa. It was after she’d been in the relationship with TA for some time that she began to lose whatever self-esteem she had. When that happens to people, they may be seen to have a “personality disorder”. But there is a big difference. The criteria for personality disorders in the DSM are stringent and not easily met. It is also important to remember that unfortunately, in abusive relationships, a person can lose themselves almost entirely, can even begin to adopt attitudes and behaviors of the abuser in their own relations with other people. This is one reason that abuse victims can become isolated, and why they are sometimes not believed later when they say that their abuse was unprovoked. A few have written of that on this site.

    By the time the trial was on, how could Jodi have not known that the “psycho” prefix was being applied to her by so-called “professionals” in various appellations nightly on the air? It appears that she wanted to reach out via any media means she could to try to counter the allegations, even if it was just to make an intelligent quip. Can one really be surprised that someone her age would want to do that?

    That Jodi’s PTSD is probably ongoing (see “C-PTSD”) is likely a complication that would render her a “difficult” client. To have mitigating (against the DP) evidence confiscated by Corrections, (artwork) when it is almost all that she has now is a potential exacerbation. But it is good sign that she didn’t comment, because her silence helped that snafu to blow over faster.

    With respect to Nurmi: I just watched a portion of Day Five (January 10, 2013) of the trial again, wherein KN questions EF on his “mistaken” ideas about what Horn had said about the “sequencing” of injuries.

    The longer Nurmi questioned EF that day, the more resolute EF was that he had simply been mistaken in his interpretation of what Horn “said” on a few occasions. EF’s posturing on the stand seemed to imply that Nurmi was on the wrong track, as if he were making a big deal out of nothing. In fact, at one point, EF said words to the effect that the sequencing wasn’t very important. Nurmi tried to contradict that point through further questioning, but he appeared astonished by that assertion – as well he should have been – he manned the podium from then from a flabbergasted stance. EF’s remark about the relative unimportance of that sequencing was very prejudicial – and it was disingenuous if we are to accept that EF would not appreciate one of the most fundamental components of detective work. As the “gunshot” last scenario eviscerates Jodi’s claim of self-defense, EF’s statement that the sequencing would not really matter was the final coup in that confrontation. In the annals of court room theatrics, it topped JM’s rantings a few moments later that there was nothing in EF’s written report with respect to sequencing, but it might not have topped Judge Sherry Stephens’ pointedly sour glare at Nurmi during the questioning.

    Yes, Pandora, it looked to a great extent as if KN were sitting back in his flabbergastability from that day onward, cooly watching the “show” unfold while he made a good record for further appeals.

    • You seem more knowledgeable about courtrooms and lawyers than I am. If for one, if I could pick I would not have picked KN but then again Jodi didn’t have a choice (nor would I, I suppose). To me he came across as uninterested and could really care less. I pray that I am wrong and he did have appeals on his mind. Unfortunately I have been wrong before. 🙂 All I know is I believe in Jodi’s innocence and hate that she has been portrayed as a murderer and now is unjustly convicted of it. Sad. 🙁 (((((((JODI)))))))

      • R. Love, I don’t know much about courts or the law, but I have always been interested in and have read about social justice. (That is the main reason I’ve spent any time studying the DSM.) As only an observer putting forth my own opinions, I see that Jodi’s supporters are out-numbered, but soon people will begin to see what really happened. When people give her case the focus it deserves*, as we have, they will begin to see the injustice.

        * meaning: Proper focus, not dismissing her claim out of hand based on a mean-spirited foregone conclusion

    • Yah, I think that was the day he realized it was a done deal, already. He didn’t so much ‘give up’ as he turned his focus to recording every last transgression that contributed to the train wreck.

      People keep saying the DT should have had their own crime scene expert. Well, they didn’t know they needed one until the state switched to gunshot last. And why didn’t they make a big deal about the stuff that bugs us – the footprint and the roommates that didn’t smell anything and how the hell did Travis get in the shower. Except those things didn’t matter once Jodi said she killed Travis. They devoted all of their efforts to showing the world the reality of Jodi and Travis’ relationship, then they brought Samuels and LaViolette in to explain why Jodi acted as she did. That was their defense, all they really COULD do to support a claim of self defense.

      • What bugs me is how come the roommates didn’t hear the gunshot! Were they not at home?
        And what militates against the premeditation theory is that it doesn’t make sense for Jodi (or anybody for that matter) to discharge a firearm in a residential neighborhood in the evening when most people have come home from work (June 4th, 2008 fell on Wednesday which is a weekday).

        • According to Flores report, Enrique got home between 6 and 6:30. Zack wasn’t there.

          • And we all know Flores is on top of his game. He zeroed in on Jodi from day one….Now someone please tell me how all of the “friends” knew she was there…..

            • While all of the friends gathered at the house on the ninth said Jodi was the one the police should look at, I think it was Clancy way up in Utah who first told Flores that Jodi wasn’t where she was supposed to be on the 8th.

            • Absolutely Cindy. Could it be that one of the other girlfriends was doing a drive by to check on Travis and see who he was with. Maybe he did have a stalker and it wasn’t Jodi. Could it be a furious husband who had found out about Travis and his wife looking for an opportunity to stomp him for intruding on his marriage? Really, there are many ways one could look at this which says Reasonable Doubt. Also, the suicide really screams out there was more involved than has been presented.

              • Funny that you should mention a jealous husband.
                A man by the name of Dusttin Thompson had it in for Travis because Travis was fooling around with his wife, Ashley Reed. Florez was even tipped off about Dustin by none other than Ashley herself (their marriage was on the rocks)! And Florez never interviewed Dustin (because he zeroed in on Jodi) who was an ex-felon.
                .
                If Travis did have his tires slashed (again, no police report – were they slashed at all?) then it could have been Dustin who did it.

          • BTW, did Florez check their alibis or did he take them at their word?
            If the latter is the case then Florez did an exceptionally sloppy job.

            • I do believe that Flores made one attempt to talk to Dustin but they never got together to go over everything. Yes, that is exactly who I was talking about and I believe it is more a guy thing to slice tires than a girl. Tires are very hard to cut. Jodi would never bothered with such a stupid thing. Then there were 2 more suicides so on and on it goes. Flores just took the easiest and fastest way. . .why investigate when it was obvious that everyone was pointing at Jodi so he ran with Jodi is the guilty one! Sloppy, Careless and Stupid. I am so tired of seeing sit beside the frog on his Lily Pad. He is nothing but a puppet.

              • I kinda think it was Steve Bell – ex-beau of Lisa’s – that was responsible for the tire slashing and the threatening letter to Lisa. It all happened while Travis was with Lisa, so I’m not seeing Dustin as connected there.

                Jun 4, however — yup I still think Dustin’s a suspect. I also think someone connected to Deanna could be tied up in it – by Travis’ own admission, after all, he ruined Deanna’s life. And she moved back to California just two weeks before Travis’ death. Then there’s Joshua Freeman, who shot himself in the head the very day Jodi was arrested. And CASH with three different stories about where they were on Jun 4.

                • You so right, we wouldn’t want to leave Mr. & Mrs. CASH out of the line up!
                  They are at the top of my list.

  20. I agree with all of you. This whole case is just crazy…… I can’t wait to read the book on this one someday…In the end Jodie will go free…….

  21. Hey Journee. . . did they do any kind of blood test to see if the blood on the floor in the hallway was only Travis and Jodi’s? Did they just take it at face value and just figured as much? I can’t remember.

    • R Love, I only recall mention of tests as to whether something was blood or not – like the few little specks downstairs and the ‘handprint’. No mention of whether they tested any of the blood at the scene for DNA.

      I do recall that Jodi Legg – the gal from the DNA lab – said that she only developed two profiles out of all the DNA samples that had been collected. She only developed Jodi’s and Travis’ of course.

      • Of course….now why would you test anyone that might have been there …… I’m sorry but this hole case has cover up written on it……

      • SOOOO, would it be possible to have another DNA lab go over everything that was collected (if it hasn’t been trashed or hidden under a boulder)? How could anyone trust the testing that was done in the beginning. I DON’T! Just wondering?.?
        Glad your posting again CindyJewell 🙂 it is great to everyone’s thoughts on all of this mess.

        • Considering how sloppy they were about everything else, I doubt there were many preserved blood samples at all, if any. Certainly not from all of the various areas where blood was found.

    • I think he probably fell into the same hole that you and I fell into for awhile, there, Cindy. Looking back at archived posts, a lot of regulars disappeared right around the same time.

      I’ve been assured a few times that I was never banned, but for a couple of months my regular browser (Safari) could not read this site. I was able to read the site using a different browser – Google Chrome – but still not able to post (and the way the not posting was happening looked more like a Chrome glitch to me.)

      I suspect some little weird thing happened with the HTML code, allowing some browsers to read it and others not, and it just wasn’t caught for a couple of months.

      • Journee, what is the time period you’re talking about? Some people may have dropped out just because the trial was over and nothing was happening to discuss.

        Regarding specific people that some have asked about, I do not know why Al quit posting, but he also failed to reply to several emails of mine in the weeks after trial. Sirlips left because haters harassed him at work and in his child’s sports team. Also Abused, if my memory is right, left because another poster started a bitter feud with her. She posted for a while on other sites thereafter.

        Quite a lot of people, including me, were banned by a past admin, who, as time went on, turned into the Queen of Hearts. Toward the end of her reign, she was chopping off heads right and left, till it got to the point where a large proportion of daily posts were her own. During that period, freedom of discussion here was drastically restricted and various kinds of orthodoxy were enforced. And that ideological rigidity may be one reason why a lot of people dropped out even without being banned for their opinions.

        All credit to the current admins, who once again allowed lively debate on the site when they took over!

        • Also, some people just lost interest in Jodi’s case and moved on to other cases. Once the sentencing phase starts again, I believe that a lot of posters will be back. All Jodi supporters are welcome here.

          Unfortunately, it’s true: a lot of posters stopped posting because they were targeted by ‘haters’ and wanted to protect their private lives (friends and family) from being harassed.

          I want to make it clear that all supporters are free to express their POVs. Each and every poster is respected by us. There are only 4 rules that we have on our site:

          1.) No personal insults, attacks or in-fighting,

          2.) No drama,

          3.) Keep personal disputes with other posters outside of the website,

          4.) No relaying BS messages from BS-themed websites (we’re not interested),

          Lively discussion & debate about all aspects of the Defense is encouraged. The same goes future plans & strategy.

          Whenever someone feels the need to contact us about something of the above, just ‘holler’ and we will contact you by e-mail. 😉

          And remember peeps:
          We are here for the long haul.
          We are proud to stand behind and support Jodi Arias.
          Always have done.
          Always will do.
          Nothing will ever change that.

          WE ARE TEAM JODI – AND WE WILL BE VICTORIOUS in our quest for JUSTICE FOR JODI.
          NEVER DOUBT IT FOR ONE SECOND.

          RASNA ADMIN, TEAM JODI

          • Thank you to all Administrators for all that you do for Jodi and us! ((((((( TEAM JODI!)))))))

      • I still miss some of the old posters who used to comment here daily during trial. Even if they don’t come here any more I hope they’re somewhere out there supporting Jodi and maybe even writing to her.

        • ((((((Maria))))) you are such a sweet soul and a ‘white’ spirit! I love you girlfriend! ♥

  24. I personally got tired of the nit picking that was going on for a while….I’m sure it had to do with the how we all felt about the out come. I also had let too many things go that I needed to address. I never stopped reading the post but just sat back and didn’t open my mouth.

    I have never changed my views about Jodi…..even when I had my family telling me I was nuts…lol But they said the same thing about the CA trial. I like to look at the whole picture in life.

    • My mistake, then – when you showed up again awhile back, you said you thought you had been banned for awhile, so I figured you’d had the same experience I’d had.

      • No you got it right I did think that…..there was someone that I found out later that was only on the site for their personal gain……they had my personal email address and would hit around about needing money and then one day came right out and asked……always drama in this persons life…..I don’t do drama….

        I tried to post a few times and couldn’t. I had to email SJ to ask…..

      • I too – many times – have experienced that (not being able to comment or not being able to log onto the site). It was always some kind of glitch. The first time that happened to me I was like “WTF??? Was I banned?” (scratching my head). LMAO!!! But the next day everything was back to normal!

        Not long ago (maybe 2-3 weeks ago) Maria couldn’t comment either. It was a browser problem.

        SO, my proposal is that whenever anyone has somekind of problem, they should contact ADMINS, just in case it’s a site glitch…

        ((((((My cyber family))))) ♥

        • When it happened to me, it wasn’t a momentary glitch. It went on for several weeks – I tried every day and all I’d get was a blank page.

  25. I’ve been reading your comments about wondering if you’re banned or not. I hope I haven’t been banned. I asked for my posts to be taken down not because I didn’t support Jodi but because I was in the middle of identity theft. Some hacker got into one of my computers (6 of them in the house) and could see everything I did online. It was when he tried to make a purchase while I was at a site and use my credit card info that the jig was up. I asked for the posts to be taken down because I didn’t know if he had been posting with my identity here or elsewhere. Had to cancel credit cards and get new ones and get a subscription to Lifelock for $275. All the phone calls I was getting when I posted I think were coming from the hacker using spoofed numbers. That’s why I stopped posting. I hope I didn’t offend anybody but was trying to spark debate on certain aspects by playing devil’s advocate. That tends to bring out many points about things such as what is in today’s comments. Todays comments were very enlightening.

      • Thank you. It’s good to be back. I didn’t really want to leave before but I could tell at the time that something was wrong and I didn’t know what and asked my posts to be taken down. I thought it was the haters with all of the phone calls (some showed RESTRICTED on caller ID) and I’ve got a 11 year old daughter and I didn’t want her to have to deal with that stuff every time I wasn’t there to handle it. A week or so later I couldn’t control my computer sometimes. That’s when I suspected a hacker making the calls and started trying to find where they were in my computer. Scanners were of no use and I was looking manually and found some strange things in the Windows\assembly\NativeImages area. There’s more to the story of getting them out but I won’t go into detail on that. I hope I’ve got that whole mess behind me now.

        On the discussion about whether or not TA was dragged back to the shower. I don’t believe he was. A couple of months ago my wife and I tried acting this stuff out. We ran into problems. She couldn’t drag me on the tile floor worth a darn by my arms. We didn’t try with her pulling me by my feet. On that point I am in agreement he had to be carried or helped along.

        On the discussion of where TA died, I agree that one blood trail was from him following her up the hall. I always thought a dead person would stop bleeding out since there wasn’t any more blood pressure. I’m thinking maybe he bled out most of his blood before Jodi got him back up and helped him back up the hallway to the sink. At this point maybe he was ready to collapse and she carried or helped him to the shower and tried to place him in there so he could sit up and it is here between the sink and the shower where he died.

        I may be totally out left field here but if we are talking about only Jodi and TA in this setting this is what I think happened. If we are talking about others being there then it would be a totally different story.

    • Sorry to hear you had to go through that, Farmer Lonnie. I think we all have had our share of harassment and bullying and hacking! I for one, somehow ended up on a dating site! LMAO!!! But I contacted the admins there and they straightened it out for me. They also provided me with a get amount of info, if I wanted to proceed in reporting. I didn’t. It wasn’t worth the trouble! If I gave this poor misguided fool the fake sense that he/she actually did something important in their lives… so be it! 😉 . Everyone has the need to feel superior! Even those small people…

      I understand that with money and credit cards, it’s a whole other thing…

      As I have previously said, I got caught in an ugly web and I was reading their sites day after day after day…. It only upset me. Then SJ really shook my shoulders and I realized that they were not important. They were getting in the way of what really matters: Jodi. I HAD lost focus. I don’t know them – they don’t know me! SO, I decided that if I wanted to be respected I should be respectful. How could I stop haters from hating Jodi, and her supporters? By starting a verbal war (who can be more bitchy and insulting?)? A he said/ she said kinda thing? A pissing contest? What good would that be to Jodi?

      I just ask that as I am staying in my playground, they stay in theirs! No fuss – no foul play. 😉 We are all grown ups here! We might disagree on Jodi but I am sure in other cases we are totally in sync (e.g. Baby Teghan case)…

      • P.S. Farmer, I am glad they didn’t ‘break’ you and you are strong enough to continue supporting Jodi and commenting here! You are always welcome here.

        • Happy to have you and your wife back! I, too, had the gremlins in my computer to the point HP sent me a new one. (still under warranty)! Whatever was happening . . . it will not keep us from supporting Jodi~! She needs our prayers and any kind of strength we may channel to her! I do believe that one day she will be free. . .the sooner the better!

        • Thank you. It’s feels good to be welcomed back. My wife doesn’t complain about me being here. She knows its important to me. She brings me water bottles, snacks, and sometimes meals. I don’t always post but I read as many of the comments as I can.

          • It is always good to hear other peoples thoughts on what they believe could have happened with this crazy trial! I have believed Jodi innocent from day one of this trial. Jodi could not and would not have done all the things that she has been accused of. Jodi loved Travis and would have done anything for him even though he treated her in the end like trash. She did make many mistakes in the beginning and should have kept her mouth shut but there is no crime in that. There are many unanswered questions that we all have and many of us have given our views but there is always room for more. The one thing we all agree on is Jodi should be free and she is only guilty of protecting herself from an awful abusive ex boyfriend. The autopsy was botched, the Medical examiner changed his findings to suit the Prosecution, the detective work was shoddy, people have committed suicide (3), Travis’s friends were two-face and devious, Travis’s computers were cleaned up of any evidence (except for pictures of Jodi and Travis, Travis’s friends and family have made money off of all of this, the Blind Judge is missing the point of her job, the Defense is working with a handicap (they were not prepared enough), the Prosecutor is a raving self-absorbed liar, HLN network and commentators are profiting from this, HLN is also guilty of presenting the verdict before the trial even started so on and on we go marching ever so faithful that one day the truth will come out and Justice will be served to the ones that are guilty and Jodi will be set free.

            We have been called crazies but we are everyday hardworking people who are tired of seeing the innocent suffer while the evil doers of this world try to take over. Everyone should be upset by the way Jodi’s trial has been mishandled in the state of Arizona! No justice in this Circus Trial!

            • And Arizona’s Governor Jan Brewer set a bad example of “leadership” for its citizens and for the entire world by declaring, in a death penalty case that Jodi was probably guilty DURING jury deliberations in the guilt phase of the trial.

  26. Happy Friday cyber family, team Jodi!
    It’s good to be back at work. Finally the end of week 2.

    Food for thought ; We will not stop. We will not quit, We will not fail.
    We will be victorious. We will be here for Jodi. We will fight for Jodi
    until hell freezes over, then we will fight on ice. We are Team Jodi.
    We will see Jodi a free woman again.

    Ray in H-burg Va.

    • YES!!!!!!!!!
      THAT’S THE SPIRIT!
      Jodi has been betrayed way too many times by people she thought loved her and cared about her; life has repeatedly failed her miserably. She now needs people who understand what ”being LOYAL to someone” means! She doesn’t need people who get over excited for a short period of time and then suddenly lose interest.This battle may take years even decades, we had better realize this! Being a supporter in cases like this one,means fighting till the end. I often think of Darlie Routier’s and Debra Milke’s supporters, I truly ADMIRE them for standing by these women for decades!

  27. Pandora, and Maria, More food for thought as said by Sonny Barger, someone who I really look up to.
    “My definition of family is someone who will do anything for you, anytime, anywhere, without regard for their own health and safety” S. Barger

    Family doesn’t necessarily mean blood
    (((((Jodi))))) ♥
    (((((PANDORA))))) ♥
    (((((MARIA))))) ♥

    Ray in Harrisonburg, Virginia.

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