Travis Alexander’s Pedophile Letter Handwriting Comparison – (Part 2)

in Latest News by

It’s gotta be said. TA’s handwriting skills were exceedingly piss poor. Typical of the Addams family I guess.

Below is a section of a letter written by TA. I’ve then taken 3 random words (“everything“, “reasons” and “understand“) from the original pedo letter posted yesterday, and put those words next to this alternate letter for comparison purposes.

Now, I’m no handwriting expert by any means – but with the overall “style” & layout of the letter, and the repeated inclusion of lowercase & uppercase letters, I don’t think it necessarily needs an expert to see that both letters were written by the same person. There’s no wonder Kermit didn’t want them admitting into evidence.

To compare the letters side by side, click here to launch a PDF document in a new window.

Check it out for yourself:

travis alexander pedo letter handwriting comparison v2


Here’s the latest TA letter in full:

travis alexander handwriting - letter 2

To compare the letters side by side, click here to launch a PDF document in a new window.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Following on from TA’s drooling over Ryell Hughes, and my May 2013 post — “Child Sex Abuse, Chris Hughes & Soldier Hollow Charter School” — Chris Hughes’ name & mugshot suddenly disappeared from the Soldier Hollow Charter School website after their infamous “breaking news” story on Utah.

Click here (or click the pic below) to read the article & watch the video if you missed my post the first time around…

child sex scandal - Solider Hollow Charter School - Chris Hughes, Vice Chair . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .



Never question it.

Never doubt it.

Prepare for it.

Leave your thoughts & comments below…

Team Jodi #WINNING <<<

Click the banner below to read Jade’s post – “Justice Denied: Why The Jurors Got It Wrong & How The Facts Decimate The State’s Case Against Jodi Arias.”:

Read - Justice Denied - Why The Jurors Got It Wrong & How The Facts Decimate The State's Case Against Jodi Arias
Click the links below to read Jade’s previous posts in the series:

Stephens, Sandbagging & The Six Month Crap-Fest
Corruption, State-Sponsored Murder & Twelve Angry Men

The Immaculate Deception: Exposed

Michael Melendez – Perjury Exposed
The Presumption of Innocence
The Great Mormon Porn Swindle

If you would like to help Jodi by way of a financial donation to the JAA APPELLATE FUND, click the Team Jodi link below for further details. All donations via go directly to the fund for assisting with the legal fees associated with appealing Jodi’s wrongful conviction. is the ONLY website authorized to collect donations.

In addition, please DO NOT, under any circumstances, donate through any other website or Facebook page/group claiming to be “official” and/or acting with Jodi’s approval or authorization. The same applies to any “Jodi Membership Clubs”, groups or fake Trust funds that have been set up. These sites are bogus – they continue to steal money from Jodi – and they should be actively avoided. If you are aware of any such sites, please help Jodi by clicking here and reporting them. Thank you for your ongoing support!

We Are Team Jodi ---- And We Will Be Victorious!.



    • A very good read Justus, I always thought the prosecution never proved anything without a reasonable doubt.
      Congratulations on First!!

      Ray in H-burg Va.

    • (((Justus))) ♥ Your wiki page is brilliant. It shows how hard you have worked. Congrats on first comment!

      (((Ray))) ♥ Congrats on second comment!

    • I’ve been on her side from day one. That prosecutor is just dragging things out and he’s a sore loser. Heaven forbid she gets life or more reasonable, gets off completely. Maybe that would shock him out of practice. One could only hope.

      I studied handwriting when I was younger and having read those letters I am 100% certain they are his. Too many characters match and the lines it was on and the size. I agree that Jodi did kill him but I call it justifiable homicide. Mormons are cracked and the things he did to her were inexcusable. She’s a strong and talented woman and I hope it all works out for her.

      A sidenote – one reason Mitt Romney lost the Presidential election – I think – is because he’s Mormon. May as well say you’re a Jehovah Witness or a Scientologist!

      • I studied handwriting too, Ron, and to me it is indisputably Travis’ writing, which is the reason JM wouldn’t have the letter admitted. Travis’ writing was very distinctive.

      • This was a very interesting read, and I never really knew what to believe about this trial. I haven’t reviewed enough evidence tbh so that’s why i’m at this.. obviously somewhat biased site.. But for just a second could we take a step back and NOT group Jehovah’s witnesses in with mormons and scientologists. I was a jehovah’s witness by birth, consequently had to study the faith rather deeply so i know quite a bit about it. Mormons are pretty out there, Scientologists are either people trying to “troll” their parents, celebs who want more attention, or schyzos, Jehovah’s witnesses are very nice caring people -all be it mainly to those in the faith and those they want to BRING into the faith- and are more like strict christians. For the love of whatever god you beilieve in, don’t group my family in with cultists.

    • I am trying to navigate this site along with others, scouring the posts to find out what the heck is the reason why Chris and Skye Hughes even HAD Travis’ belongings such as his journal and I believe too, his phone, if I read that court paper correctly. The court ordered the couple to give Travis’ journals to Detective Flores. WHY did they even have them and How and When did they acquire them. How did the cops know that the Hughes had them or that they existed? Where might I get these questions answered. I am having difficulty trusting the Hughes for many vague reasons. One specific reason I don’t trust them is what they said when they were promoting that book they wrote about Travis. Chris Hughes said something about he, himself, being the best candidate to write a book about Travis Alexander. I thought, “Wow..why..and how does the family feel about that statement.”

  1. Good morning Justus and Ray. Congrats. Justus on #1.

    Thanks SJ. I have NO doubt what so every that TA wrote that letter. But I like everyone else would like to know where is the original?? So I think it was said that either Sandy or her sister gave the copy to the DT. The rest is history. But I do have a question. How the hell did CH get a hold of it? Seems to me he has been getting a hold of a lot of information that should have not been let out. Like R.Love said yesterday, ” who needed PIOF when you have CH on the case”.

    • Not saying I am the only one who said that CH has been playing ‘chief detective, but that is what I answered in response to Sandra’s post. It is curious to me that he has SO much interest in this case.

      It is curious that he is ‘keeper of the evidence’ that he and his wife have been ‘on call’ in court, . just in case they are ‘needed’.

      It does seem curious that tHEy are more concerned with destroying Jodi than protecting their sons from being destroyed.

      • Why would destroying Jodi be their major concern instead of their children? Jodi Arias was the closest person to Travis Alexander and knew his deepest darkest secrets which included them IMO. They get rid of Jodi then no one would know anything, plus they could profit off of it. I suppose they wish the plea had been accepted about now. What type of person would buy their book of lies or fall for their corrupt deceptive ways? Brainwashed and Brainless. Dare to think for yourselves PEOPLE!!

          • But we have been blessed with common sense plus a brain. There has always been something off concerning the duo. As we have said a thousand times follow the trail of money and we will know the guilty.

        • R. people will believe anything that is shoved down their throat as long as it’s close to their believes. People that hate Jodi will easily believe that she is responsible for global warning if a rumor of that sort would start. Just saying..

        • Not to mention CH wifey slave was jealous of Jodi’s Beauty and free spirit. Also her devious doings to destroy Jodi’s person by polluting minds of others and no doubt Mr Hubby, perhaps she felt threatened?

      • I’ve been thinking about it, and trying to put myself in the Hughes’ shoes. Are they really SO sure they knew Travis inside and out? Can a person vouch for another person to such a degree? Hell, there are times we do not even admit to our own self things or aspects of us we do not like, can the Hughes really look us in the eye and tell us the KNEW Travis’ soul? That they knew him to his core????? Gimema break!

        I’d love to be a fly on their house wall when they first read that letter. Isn’t there a little voice inside Sky demanding she asks her sons if they were ever touched inappropriately by uncle Travis? If she doesn’t have a shred of doubt in her heart and mind, she is NOT a good mother. Can she really say she knew and trusted Travis (who was *just* a friend) so much that she would never even B-O-T-H-E-R to ask her son??? If that is the case, I don’t know how worse my opinion of them can get.

        • If she did not explore this possibility carefully than she was not only not a good mother she was an enabler. What does HE think now that he is a young man, no longer a boy? What questions does HE have now? He is not likely to be isolated from all of this. He has seen his parents be consumed by the trial. Isn’t it likely he asks HIMSELF why???

  2. I’m telling you what really stands out–look at the ” i ‘ s.

    You will see that he always capitalizes the letter if it’s a short word like “if” or it’s or “is”. But then dots the i in the middle of a longer word.

    It’s the same way in the letter Jodi says he wrote. A forger wouldn’t be that cognizant of such a small detail.

    Another thing… in the alleged forgery, in the sentence:

    “I had toys in the attic which is I never let you up there to clean —-The word WHY is missing.

    I’m to believe a forger would not make sure they were at LEAST writing all the words in their sentences that they wanted to make look like somebody else wrote? Don’t they proofread their forgeries ?


    • Jade, I am fixated with his ‘T’ . It’s always written in a manner that can’t be copied easily. It’s slightly italicized in every word it is used and the top part is curbed down a bit.

      Let’s face it, someone would have to be very experienced in forgery to have this type of perfection.

    • What stands out to me, besides the “blue” writing taking off uphill to the right, whereas the black writing is remarkably level, is the capital D’s . I did not detect even one lower case “D” but it would be easy to point out every Capital “D.” The first thing I noticed was their lower left corners were almost always neatly closed. Very few had become overly rounded. Almost as if they held the significance of being special. This was the case with the three black samples as well as the blue sample.

      If sky is the one who had these letters since 2007, she should be in a world of hurt over not reporting them, due to the indication that TA was a danger to children. I am not detecting that she is feeling any special responsibility for the unique situation she found herself in.

      This group has put themselves on such a high pedestal that they have lost all sense of proportion and ethics, and priorities.

      • Not only Jodi….. (though we know she didn’t). Forging someone else’s handwriting is a very very difficult thing to do if you’re not an expert. A signature? Hmmm, possibly. But even forging signatures is a demanding task. But a WHOLE letter? C’mon! Haters claiming it was Jodi doign this or having a friend do it for her is at least laughable.

      • What is said can’t be unsaid, what is done can’t be undone.

        Sorry Alexanders!! What is posted can be deleted but not before it can be copied/pasted and/or SSed 😉


        • Maria, they can’t make everything go away! 😉 I think that their revengeful characters brought all their brother’s anomalies to surface. Jodi asked for a plea deal and they didn’t want that. They wanted to kill her. Well she ain’t dead and their brother’s pedo tendencies are out in the open. Great job travis siblings! You have blackened your brother’s memory. So don’t go blaming anyone for having his dirty laundry hung out for the whole world to see. You are responsible.

          • That is so true Pandora!!!
            If it were my brother, ONCE is too much, but they can’t seem to get enough.
            Then THEY act so disgusted, rolling eyes.

            I would have done anything to keep my brother’s naked body all over the internet
            in the court room, plastered everywhere.

            They can blame themselves.
            Jodi didn’t want it and it didn’t have to be that way.

            Since many of the pictures were taken, on God knows what days,
            WHY was it necessary??? I’ve never understood that,
            Then the truth about his vulger, nasty, mean behavior, plus their so called friends.

            They are the blame for all of it and the sad part IS they’re loving it.

    • Oh D, Tanisha only had an issue was the word “alleged forgery”. GMAFB!!! They can spin it anyway they want doesn’t change a thing. Their brother was a Pedophile. Written in his own words!!

      • … and you can bet your bottom dollar that if TA had been talking his usual BS about Jodi, then that same letter would have been admitted into evidence as genuine. The fact is, you can’t decide on whether or not a letter is a forgery just because you don’t like what’s in it.

        Anyone still refusing to acknowledge TA was a POS pedo either [1] never watched the trial, [2] don’t know the meaning of the word “pedo”, or [3] they’re Mormon.

        Team Jodi #WINNING <<<

        • SJ, You hit the ball over the fence!
          In a court of law you cannot CHOOSE the evidence! It is what it is, LIKE the content or NOT like the content.

          Odd that it really has become more of a BIG DEAL now, when it CAN, HURT both Travis and the boys more. It would have been less read, less notorious, less argued over if it had come into the trial as evidence as it should have!

        • OMFG! SJ, I am so laughing but at the same time shaking my head. How disturbing this cult is. Death, hate, pedo, mind control, manipulation… the list is long. As you said: and they claim coffee and soft drinks are not allowed. Madness. Plain pure madness!

          • Jodi was telling the truth.
            They laughed at what she said!!!
            How pathetic.
            A child is molested and EVEN the media wants to protect the pedophiles.
            They’re all sick.

            The church should start talking.

            The congressman went to check on the Jim Jones cult, too late.
            I guess it’s because the Mormons are much larger and powerful.

        • SJ : That Chad Perkins’ _ Two nights before Christmas business, that was treated with the worn out “Boys will be boys” dismissive attitude is disgusting. Chad and TA were stupid(or ignorant) enough to be bantering that back and forth on social media. Do you remember?: . . .and Travis was cruising the greater Phoenix area looking for underage boys to make his Christmas more cozy . . (Chad should have said “Merrier” instead of “Cozy”: At least it would have rhymed) they were making gay jokes thrown in there. The particular “social media that was bantering back was taking the whole topic entirely too casually, especially for Mormons (no doubt elders, at that.) It reminded me of his “motivational speaker” videos _ TA doing his “Eddie Snell – MARTIAL ARTS take away _ being very gross in front of a room full of squeeling, giggling Mormon virgins. How did his church let him get away with that conduct _ or DID they? Besides the Mormon mafia, there are the Mormon God quads _ Look it up.

      • Looks like they are going to repost it with “vital details” possibly after sentencing. That should be interesting.

  3. Seriously, I’m being to think it’s a acceptable behavior in the Mormon faith.
    I saw a documentary a few months ago about married Mormon men had “special man friends”. It was accepted by the wife’s and the church.

    • This just makes me sick! The lengths that this cult religion has gone to, to murder an innocent woman are bizarre and crminal.

      • R. they are trying to ‘keep face’. Let’s not forget that with travis’s double and fake life being outed, Pandora’s box was opened and what has flown out isn’t pretty.

        You know how it is with cults. They try to keep all their shit private because if the whole world was to actually see their evilness, their ‘followers’ would jump ship and nobody would want to join summing up to losing power and money.

  4. I’m still baffled as to why this was not let in during the first trial. What friggin’ expert said that it was a forgery (per CH), or even that it couldn’t be verified as Travis’ handwriting? What expert absolutely needs the original before he could say, with at least a large degree of certainty, that T was the author? Did it really require 100% certainty to be admitted? They sure didn’t need that kind of certainty to admit the gun theft.
    I agree with SJ: if T has been writing dirt about Jodi it would have been admitted as evidence and the State page would now be singing its praises.

    • Very True Justus! Jodi should be a FREE WOMAN!!! Arizona you are wrong again!!!
      Mormon/LDS church needs to be investigated to great depths!!!! S I C K

      • Like I have always said Jodi deserves a Medal of Honor. Not for her part in Travis’s death, IF ANY. Reasonable Doubt there and everywhere. But for her compassion for loving and protecting such a broken sick man.

          • Instead of Ole Cash spending any more money on paying someone to lie about the handwriting authenticity of TA, maybe he should spend his money on therapy for his children or better yet, have some DNA testing on them. That might be worth his money IMO. Just a thought.

            • For me MZ Cash has always be too obsessed with TA. Definitely not normal. Brother and Big sister relationship . . . not buying that story.

            • No R. It’s not just your opinion. I have said that from the beginning. I think TA did something inappropriate to their son. CH or SH sent TA a e-mail…. (the one they had to make sure no one saw). I also am beginning to sounder if Deanna was told and that’s why she left town 2 weeks before TA died. Call me crazy but the more that comes out the more I REALLY believe the intruder story. I think Sky was at TAs house that day. Not sure about CH. You know other then the fact that she let Jodi take the fall for this, I can understand why a mother would kill someone for this!!! I know they threatened Jodi. I could be wrong and I’m willing to admit it…..

              • The way I look at it is either TA did something to one of their boys or they found out he intended on doing it or Mz Cash and TA had a more intimate relationship which might have brought a son into this world and Ole Cash found out about the two had scammed him. She knew TA before she knew Ole Cash for brains. I know it is way out there but we just never know do we?

              • And BTW apparently they enjoy threatening people. Weird characteristic to have unless you need to cover up something.

              • There is no evidence anybody other than Jodi Arias, who admitted to the killing, was responsible for Travis Alexander’s death. WHY in the hell are people still believing the intruder shit?

                That doesn’t mean the Mormon mob tried to cover up for Travis, but come on. Enough is enough with this. It’s making JA supporters look as big a whack jobs as the Mormon crowd.

                WHY is it so hard to believe that she killed him in self-defense? WHY is it so hard to believe that she lied to the police to protect Travis Alexander’s reputation despite his obvious pedophilia and pervert tendencies, just as the Mormon mob threw her under the bus with the stupid stalker narrative?

                Get a clue, folks.

                • TonySam, Hi, my curiosity is absolutely scortched by the high water mark of your responses whenever the topic of “Intruders” comes up.

                  It scares me, actually, because the more our group has been pulling together and collaborating, the closer we are getting to what could be the reality of a “danger zone.” Are you trying to warn us about something that we don’t know? or don’t understand, that could harm Jodi by our actions?

                  I do feel very uneasy about that “JusDa” person. I believe it to be a sinister male (troll?)

    • Well the DT did have a expert look at it. He/she was 80% sure it was TA’s writing.
      So how could ch have a expert that was 100% sure it wasn’t?? You would think the state would have had their own person look at it. Perhaps they did and it wasn’t what JM wanted to hear so then came the it’s a copy B.S.

      • How is it that CH even had a copy for his “expert” to look at? The rest of us didn’t get to see it until now? Did the Alexanders have copies of potential evidence that they then passed on to CH? Seems to me Ch supposedly had an awful lot of insider information. (Or maybe he was just blowing smoke up everybody’s ass.)

                • I don’t know why – they called KN just after they got it, Sky gushing their appreciation that he’d been kind enough to share it with them, saying they knew Travis had issues but not this, asking if KN had any idea of Travis’ preferred age, etc. Y’all really don’t remember all this? It came out during Nurmi’s cross of CH during that evidentiary hearing for prosecutorial misconduct. See Trial day 10 over there -> part 3/3

                • Notice, however, that Sky or Chris Hughes did not say that the handwriting looked forged or that it didn’t look like TA’s handwriting…they would know TA’s handwriting bc they knew TA really the FIRST thing they would have said to KN would be “Hey, this doesn’t look like TA’s handwriting to us” or something to that effect but they did not, they thanked KN for sharing it with them and acknowledging that they knew TA had problems….Did they not worry about their own children at that point when receiving this copy of the letter? or did they ALREADY KNOW ABOUT HIS PEDOPHILIA !!!!

                • Why the FUCK does the Highes name keep popping up everywhere? Why were they so privy to everything the prosecution and the defense did? At the end of the day, I feel like being gagged and the only thing I wanna scream is: who the hell do they Hughes think they are????

                  They are not next of kin, they were not directly involved in the crime, they were JUST his friends ffs!

        • I believe he was PIOF “bestie” during that time. That has been the scam from the beginning. . .smooze right in there with all the “altered and tampered evidence”. Who belongs to the bloody boot print and why has it never been brought up! Seven Years and no one wants to know? W H Y ????

    • Good point, Justus. And let’s see, the engagement ring “theft,” the “stalking,” the “sleeping under the Christmas tree.” They were all allowed but not this letter … and what about the other 9 or 10 letters? I now really want to see them.

    • It seems that every time something was kept from being brought into evidence, the CASHES were always behind this. What is it that they were/are so desperately trying to hide?

      Mormon mafia omertà.

      Definition of omertà:
      (among the Mafia) a code of silence about criminal activity and a refusal to give evidence to the police.
      “loyal to the oath of omertà”

  5. Does anyone find it odd that they choose this time to release the the letter?? Perhaps it’s just my suspicious mind working overtime.

    OK I have a question. I know that all hell is going to brake lose on the 13 with regards to everything we haven’t seen but if something is sealed will we see it?

    • Boy Vicky that came out of the blue… 🙂 I haven’t heard that one. I would think it would be a conflict of interest due to his job.
      But hell why not jump on the band wagon.

    • Hopefully, “Corinna Who Cares About Herself” will help him write that book. Nothing like a little help from a busy body wife!

    • If Esteban Flores (or anyone else, including Chris Hughes) writes a book it will either be complete fiction or an eye-opening expose.
      For instance, if Esteban Flores writes a book, how will he begin his story?
      Will he tell how the ‘crowd’ outside the house all pointed their fingers at Jodi Arias, making his job amazingly simple?
      Then will he reveal all the ‘other people’ he investigated and for what reason they were investigated?
      And, will he say how long and vigorously Jodi Arias denied even being in Mesa at all as he told her over and over that they had ‘everything they needed’ to convict her” and it was ‘all over’?
      And then go on with how he browbeat Jodi Arias into ‘telling a story’ to ‘help the family understand’ and ‘find closure’?
      Will he tell how hard it was for them to fit the ‘evidence’ into Jodi’s story?
      Will he tell how the ‘investigation’ was carried out and prosecuted with ‘falsified evidence’, conjured up with irrational stories, and suggestions of quilt using innuendos?
      If not the book would be more like the old time soap opera or dime novel – and hardly worth one’s time or money.

    • By the sounds of it everyone on travis’s side is writing a book. LOL!

      If people will read all the books, I’m sure they’ll go insane. Each book will be a different version of the ‘travis truth’. I really do hope that they will all be smart enough to exchange notes and keep their story straight!

      It’s going to be a disaster! Maybe the roommates will also write a book. It seems that they were very helpful in knowing what was going on in the house – NOT. But hey, they might just remember things in the name of “cha-ching”!

      Let’s not forget that Nobel winning book JVM wrote. Cause she was there from when Jodi met travis and was in the house on June 4th 2008… smh.

  6. OMG !! Thank you, SJ !! Those words that you highlighted are exactly the same…no doubt that the same person wrote those words….It would be interesting to line up as many words as possible and do that and just list them and then the world will see that this really was TA, The Pedophile, that wrote that letter….these letters – the originals – need to be taken to a top handwriting expert like someone from the FBI and authenticated and then used for appellate issues…..

  7. As Kirk Nurmi has already stated in so many words….this is Debra Milke 2.0…..hopefully Jodi will not have to wait 23 years to get out of prison….Overturn, vacate, remand or dismiss w/prejudice………….

  8. I wonder how many of Travis’ good friends, who have been defending him and characterizing him as a saint all this time, are now secretly wondering if he violated their children. If they are still certain that the letter is a forgery then they are only fooling themselves, possibly at the cost of their own children’s emotional well being.

    • Yes, any parent who allowed their children to be in the unsupervised presence of TA should be wondering and asking questions about what may have happened….

    • If I was a friend of travis’s and had children around him, I would absolutely try my best to learn if he had ‘touched’ my children inappropriately at any time. If I found he had, I would have gone and pissed on his grave, mf.

      Just thinking about a grown man having sexual urges by looking at children is unbearable in my head. Fucking freaks of nature! It’s the one thing that makes me go crazy bitch! CHILDREN ARE OFF LIMITS sickos!

  9. Bishop parker knows a great deal about the Mormon child porn ring and the large pedo rings in that so called church.

    • In most cults pedophilia is a ‘normal’ thing for them. How many times have we heard of the leader marrying 12yr old little girls… And the parents being happy about it too…. SMH.

  10. I also wonder how many in the media are reading this letter, comparing it to his known handwriting and now desperately trying to convince themselves, in any way possible, and against all logic, that it’s a forgery. HA HA!

    • I can almost hear TH mumbling while looking at one print and then back to the other : “No! No! This is not possible” Then picking up a magnifying glass to have a better look and then satisfied yelling “A-ha! FORGED! The period is not the same! – I knew it!” LMFAO! 😆 😆 😆

  11. Does anyone know where we can find videos of testimony from Day 16 and beyond?? I have finished everything up and through Day 15 and there doesn’t seem to be any more on the Crime Time Vids on youtube…..

    • CrimeTimeVids channel owner, journalist David Lohr (he covered the first trial for Huffington Post, also uploaded the interrogation tapes), had to go out of town to cover a story. He said he would resume uploading videos when he returned. That’s the last I heard on the subject.

  12. I think this letter could be one of the biggest appellate issues of all. Unless there’s some legal issue I’m not aware of – because I’m not buying this “copy” crap. Jodi’s whole case rests on this. It not only goes toward her credibility, it factors big time into his motive for attacking her moments before she is leaving to move on with her life. (And, at this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if, in his heightened fear and rage, he actually was trying to kill her.)

    • Justus, the state’s argument against admission of the letters is included in the documents archived here, in the group at the very top called Jodi Arias – Court Documents.

      The issue of the letters being copies and not verifiable as authentic was only one seemingly lesser issue cited in the argument. JM had other arguments as well, along with legal citations. And I’ve not seen the judge’s ruling (think it was still Duncan then) or what *she* cited when she granted the motion to preclude.

      We’ve just only HEARD about “they were copies that couldn’t be authenticated and therefore must have been forged” as the reason they were precluded because that’s what camp Travis wanted the media to say.

      • OK. I read Juan’s conclusion in his motion to preclude:

        “The ten letters purportedly written by victim Travis Alexander and disclosed by defendant are inadmissible for numerous reasons. They are hearsay, and no exception applies; they are irrelevant, or if relevant, are unfairly prejudicial; and they do not qualify as character or other acts evidence. The fact that defendant has changed her strategy to allege self-defense does not make the letters admissible. Therefore the State requests that this court grants its motion to preclude the ten letters.”

        I don’t understand how someone admitting they are a pedophile can be called hearsay. And how, in a self-defense case, the character of the so-called victim (who is not a victim until the jury says so) is not relevant. Is this “Travis’ Law” as proposed by Tanisha, that makes it illegal in a self-defense case to say anything unpleasant about the one who lost the fight?

        In other motions Juan also refers to the letters as “ten forged letters purportedly written by the victim”. How is it he’s allowed to testify regarding the authenticity of the the letters in official court documents? Where’s the proof they are forged?

        • According to wikipedia
          Hearsay evidence is “an out-of-court statement introduced to prove the truth of the matter asserted therein.” In certain courts hearsay evidence is inadmissible (the “Hearsay Evidence Rule”) unless an exception to the Hearsay Rule applies.

          Other sources call it information that cannot be adequately substantiated.

          ^shrug^ with the underlying doubt about the letters’ authenticity, the content of the letters would be information that couldn’t be adequately substantiated. Sucks, but there it is.

          Washington’s words in that FB discussion back in November of 13 suggest that a LOT of Travis’ BS was kept out of the trial because of limitations imposed by Jodi’s claim of self defense. She said that if DT had aimed for M2/heat of passion, ALL of Travis’ crap could have been admitted. So I guess there are some legal ins and outs here that we don’t fully understand, but apparently at least some of the evidence ruled inadmissible was kept out because of DT strategy, instead of just pure underhandedness on the state’s part.

        • TEN LETTERS……Has anyone thought about that? If you are going to forge a letter to substantiate your position in court and to bolster your claims against a defendant WHY IN THE HELL DO YOU NEED TO FORGE TEN !!!!!! LETTERS???? Wouldn’t one or two suffice???? Who would want to try to forge one letter let alone TEN LETTERS !!!! Okay, what they need to do is take the original letters to a top notch expert like an FBI handwriting expert who is beyond reproach and have them authenticated and then use them in the appeals as one of the many appellate issues….Hearsay, smearshay… was PURE HEARSAY that Jodi slashed TA’s tires or that she “stole” her grandpa’s gun and those false accusations were totally prejudicial to Jodi so don’t talk to me about hearsay….there was NO PROOF of those false accusations but here we have 10, count them 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,,10 !!!!!!!!! letters……..nuff said !!

          • AND THESE LETTERS WERE ABSOLUTELY RELEVANT TO THIS CASE……they went to the heart of the matter in this case and that is that TA was an abusive pedophile who got caught by Jodi and she was the woman who knew too much and this put her in mortal danger…..she just got the upper hand on him and survived !!!!!

    • OMG. Just a few hours ago I was talking with Maria Rigadopoulou on the phone and we were actually discussing letters that were not allowed to be admitted as evidence! This is going to be in the appeals.

    • Justice, I do agree with your assessment. The word “betrayal” began cropping up here and there near the end. It was a real flashpoint for TA. I cannot fathom the impossible position Jodi became locked into. When TA backed away from getting the help he needed, Jodi would have been left in the role of harboring and protecting a dangerous fellon.

  13. Gee, I wonder if HLN is going to show the world Travis’ letter and show us all how it’s a forgery. What? Out of respect to the Alexanders and their dear dear Travis, they’re not going to even mention it?

      • Hi Pan. As far as I know they aren’t much covering Jodi anymore (and I’m sure even less now that Travis is being outed). They only cover things that slander Jodi. That’s where the big bucks are.

  14. We,ll S J once again amazing. I wonder if the court had the original bible in that court….oh it was a COPY…well is that case DISMISSED. It,s called a true copy and ALL courts accept such. Now when one has blinders on as in ….OH, he would NEVER do that….well he spoke @ doing 3 TIMES in say 62 sec.s…DUH!If it LOOKS like SMELLS like SOUNDS like….BINGO. BUSTED boy. And the way he was writing talk @ PANIC and FRANTIC…I,m surprised he did,nt break his pen…. NOW WE ALL KNOW WHY the LETTER was not admitted ….THE ALMIGHTY…WIN! And by the way this guy was great….SEE his handwriting……Well he had other uses for them hands besides beating women…his own words PROVE that. OWN it haters!

  15. I just watched Nurmi questioning Chris Hughes about Travis’s letter(s) (TY, Journee). I wonder if CH really did have his own expert examine Travis’s letters? He didn’t mention anything about consulting his own expert when questioned by Nurmi but I don’t suppose he would be allowed to do that in court anyway. So did he consult an expert about Travis’s letters for his own peace of mind, to make sure Travis didn’t have pedophile tendancies? Why seek information you can’t use (except for stating it on blog radio)?
    It’s much more meaningful (to me at least) to look at these videos when one has a lot of other information (mostly from the discussions/analysis from the site) to compare to what witnesses are saying.

    • I think CH’s ‘experts’ are a fiction, just more of the BS he’s spouted to inflate his importance while covering his ass.

      CH has the same motivation for discrediting this letter as Deanna has for insisting Travis was never abusive: the TRUTH would show them BOTH up to be people who had reason to want Travis dead.

    • Whether CH hired an expert or not, it still goes to show his true nature. If he did hire an expert, it means that deep down he believed Travis was capable of sexually harming children thus CH did believe there was a dark side to Travis as a result of his fucked up childhood and the subsequent traumas.
      If he didn’t even bother with those letters again it shows how blinded he is and possibly a lousy father. I mean, didn’t the thought “hey maybe I should look into this on the off-chance that there’s a smidge of truth in those letters” even cross his mind???

  16. Someone from state page claiming to have Jodi’s Perryville mugshots, front and side view, that are supposedly under seal. Is she just goading the justice supporters here or is she really privy to sealed photos and blurting it on a public page for all to see? I have to think she is goading.

    • A) why would Jodi have Perryville mugshots while she is still at Estrella ❓ and
      B) why are a couple of pictures anything that would give anybody bragging rights ❓

      not like it’s big news that Jodi’s headed for Perryville…. these people who hate her can’t wait to see her disappear forever but they’re interested in her mugshots? those people are just weird

    • Sheesh… the things people will say to get some attention. How the hell is Jodi suppose to have mugshots if she’s still not an inmate of Perryville?

  17. News Flash, just in Maricopa County in Baghdad Arizona has been overtaken by the Morman LDS (Love Death Sentences) …..RUN FOR YOUR LIVES !!!!!

  18. Why does it seem like wherever CH goes pedos follow? He’s like the pied piper of pedos. I’ve always had a problem with the things he has said beginning with his statement that the first thing he did when he found out TA was dead, was to go through his email accounts.
    Who does that? Why would your first thought on finding out your “best friend” has died be ” I have to go through his email to find the killer? ” And the rabid dark side never questions this.
    He most certainly is a snake oil salesman, cause what I read about these pedo letters are Jodi was able to forge the letters by stealing his journals and creating a font out of TA’s handwriting. Then she typed out the letters. HUH!!! And the rabid dark side buys this,especially considering the fact that CH states he has the journals. How did that happen? Did EF give him the journals, or was CH really the one who stole them so that TA would blame JA, and that would cause problems between them? Doesn’t all the crap CH comes up with create more questions if you really listen to what he is saying?

    • Chris Hughes : thou doth protest too much.

      I’m sick and tired of the Hughes popping like mushrooms everywhere. I agree with you Infectious, it NEVER sat right with me that forst thing they did upon finding of Travis’ death was to snoop around his e-mails. I mean, WTF????

  19. Something I didn’t know–apparently the motion to admit the letters were made when Jodi was acting as her own attorney (the 1st time) and possibly that the motion wasn’t drafted with the proper case law she needed to support the motion.

    Stephens was the judge at this time already and Jodi had said she wanted to go pro per. She granted the right to represent herself but ordered Nurmi and Victoria (who was her 2nd chair) at that time to stay on in an “advisory” role. It was right after that when the letters admission motion was made.

    A week after the motion was declined, she told Stephens “I’m in over my head” and wanted to have Nurmi and Washington reinstated as her attorneys. I would think they would still have been actively involved in preparation of the motion but who knows since they weren’t officially her attorneys now.

    Those letters should have been admitted. It was a statement against interest and the only thing that needed to be established is if Alexander was the author. This was up to the trier of the facts to decide and both sides could have had their own experts. For Christ sake, they even have dueling experts argue the results of DNA being valid or suspect and DNA is now deemed to be as accurate as fingerprints if not more so.

    There also were letters admitting he knocked her around also among the ten letters, which would have been a crime for which he could have been arrested. Again, if he wrote the letters, it was FAR more probative than prejudicial and she should have been allowed to argue them. Nurmi had made a proffer to the court that he had authenticated them and that should have been enough.

    He cannot make a false proffer and this was a damn death penalty case, of which the letters went directly to the core of her ability to show a secret perverse mentality of Alexander, which she had personal knowledge of and that she had been subjected to physical abuse.

    Martinez said it would tarnish the reputation of the victim. Oh boo hoo hoo. Where is the violin music?

    Stephens didn’t even allow them in as PRE-TRIAL exhibits which doesn’t mean they are admitted to be guaranteed to be shown to the jury. That is the SECOND step in any exhibit. The proper foundation has to laid during the trial for the exhibit to be “published” in front of the jury. I guarantee you she could have laid the foundation for them to be legally admitted. It was error that I believe will be looked at very carefully if the appeal brief is drafted to spell this out.

    Of course this is the judge that asked if the Alexander family minded if the sex tape was played in court. That was another jaw dropping moment for me. A judge let’s the family decide which exhibits are going to be admissible? I knew from that minute on, this judge was an amateur bombastic disaster. And it only got worse from there.

    • Thanks, Jade. Those are the things I wanted to hear. Prejudicial my ass! “Martinez said it would tarnish the reputation of the victim.” Again, how dare he refer to Travis as “the victim”. It is also the job of the trier of the facts (the jury) to decide who the actual victim is in a self-defense case. His very words are prejudicial.

      • Martinez also referred to Travis as “the victim” in his motion, long before the trial. And it grated on me during the first trial whenever he (or anyone else) referred to Travis as “the victim”.

      • You can not protect the reputation of the “victim” /deceased at the expense of the defendant’s constitutional right to a fair trial…..End of story !!

    • Right as usual again. JSS used the concept of “trier of fact” and “credibility” in not taking action on Horn and Melendez’s perjury. But in this case she (or possibly Duncan before her) disallowed the letters based on the State’s expert not being able to determine if they were genuine. As you said, that’s expert testimony and any rebuttal expert automatically negates the first expert opinion.

      But, as I’ve discussed later down this page, I believe there’s more to this story, that just JM’s motion to preclude.

  20. Such GREAT news! Amanda Knox EXONERATED. Better than not guilty for sure.
    They were determined to crucify her and they failed.
    God’s work for sure.

    • Thank goodness. This was another slut-shaming case peddled by a batshit crazy, corrupt prosecutor and an equally batshit European tabloid media. At least our media were much better here, except perhaps for Nancy Grace.

      • I’d contest only one part of you’re statement:
        “At least our media were much better here”

        All sorts of yahoos other than Nancy grace come to mind like all the bozos at HLN, and the Examiner, and Enquirer, and Troy Hayden, and then of course the self proclaimed reporters such as Wild about Trial, and Jen’s trial diaries and such.

    • There we have the Hughes again! They made sure Travis would be ridiculed if he stayed with Jodi! I bet they knew all about Travis and his perversions! I’m sure there is a whole section in LDS that deals with such sins. Travis prolly confessed to them that Jodi knew !!!!

  21. I dont know if it has ever been discussed on here, but I find it very strange and telling that TA needed and even demanded constant compliments and praise from virtually everyone. Seems to be undisputed according to testimony and/or emails. Any thoughts?

  22. Hello everyone.
    Back home from far flung travels.

    So I don’t mean to be a Negative Nancy (or possible Negative Norman given the gender) but there may be a little more to these letters than meets the eye.

    Further to Jade’s little chronology about when the letters were introduced etc. The first thing that Nurmi and Washington did upon being reinstated was actually withdraw their objection to the State’s Motion to preclude:

    To Quote:

    “IT IS FURTHER ORDERED appointing Kirk Nurmi and Victoria Washington to
    represent the Defendant for all further proceedings.
    Counsel for the Defense withdraws their objection to the State’s Motion to Preclude.
    IT IS ORDERED granting the State’s Motion to Preclude the Letters.”

    It seems to me that at some later stage (and I’m still trying to find the minute entry but seem to remember reading it) JM then turned around and wanted to actually introduce the letters and the DT fought to keep them out. (This was during the guilt phase trial).

    Again on 10/16/14 Nurmi argued against introducing these letters.

    starting at about 9:30 into the video. (Actually just heard him say the state wanted to introduce and the Defense filed a motion to preclude on 2/25/13 [ about 10:00] in the above video). That was during Jodi’s time on the stand.

    So it seems to me that after initially trying to keep the letters out JM wanted them in, and it was the DT who kept trying to keep them out (and JSS agreed with the DT).

    So, something isn’t quite right here. To quote the bard “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark” Just saying…….

    Now let the yelling begin.

  23. I guess my last post made it into the proverbial horse barn, so lets try again.

    So there seems to be more to these letters than meets the eye. It seems like initially JM wanted them out. But as soon as Nurmi and Washington got reinstated as attorneys they withdrew the DT’s objection to JM’s motion to preclude (see the minutes 80/20/2011).

    It then turns out JM the later wanted to introduce the letters and on 2/25/2013 the Defense filed a motion to preclude, which was apparently granted.

    Again on 10/16/2014 looks like the state wanted them in, and the defense argued to have them kept out. There’s a video on YouTube for the evidentiary hearing on 10/16/2014 and all this happens starting at about 9:30 into the video.

    So looks like something wasn’t quite right there. Don’t know what it is.

    • If Martinez wanted them in, it was like the magazines – a way to throw shade at Jodi. If, as you say further up there ^^ the letters were precluded because their authenticity couldn’t be proven (I’ve never read the ruling, just the first state’s motion to preclude), then Martinez has the court’s back-up to tell the jury that Jodi tried to submit forgeries into evidence.

      That would be the ONLY reason Martinez would want them in, to say ‘look at all the lies she wanted to tell you about her poor victim.’.

      Good on JSS for making the right decision – because the letters could not be proven as forgeries either.

      • left out a phrase:

        “then Martinez has the court’s back-up to tell the jury that Jodi tried to submit forgeries into evidence.” OR SO HE THINKS! that’s why he suddenly wants them in

      • I have a feeling CH had his nose in there with JM over the letters. I agree the only reason Ratface would want them in was to slander Jodi some more!!

        • Right, but he has to have something to use against her in that regard. If not these letters would be dynamite for the defense.

          • He had no proof at all that she’d stolen her grandfather’s gun, but the jury seems to have believed it anyway.

            The very fact of the DT withdrawing the argument was more innuendo than he needed to use those letters against Jodi.

            And the WORSE the content of those letters, the more the jury would have held them against Jodi.

            • E-xa-c-t-l-y! I was abut to reply to Al’s ^^^^^ post but scrolled down.

              If the frog eventually decided to introduce the letters and the DT fought not to, it was because they (DT) knew Martinez would pull something shady and twisted-around out of his sleeve.

      • You may be right. JM’s original motion to preclude didn’t really harp much on the “authentication” side of things but was based more on technicalities, and the argument that this was hearsay and irrelevant, and if relevant are unduly prejudicial. (the motion is available on the Court Docs page here. Not going to put up the link since that makes the post go into some Tennessee horse barn)

        But, it seems like the arguments became moot as soon as the DT withdrew their opposition to JM’s motion to preclude (this happened in 2011). So it seems like all of a sudden the DT didn’t want them in either. Thereafter JM kept trying to get them in, and Nurmi kept fighting it. There is a telling little phrase in Nurmi’s argument on the 10/16/2014 hearing where he refers to some sort of “simulations” of TA’s handwriting being found in Jodi’s cell or somewhere. And that may be why he wanted them kept out.

        I’m not sure what the “simulations” were, or where they were headed to but I bet JM (just like you said) now wanted to use this as another case of lying. And I’m sure he couldn’t draw a nexus between whatever those simulations were and the letters, which is probably why JSS didn’t allow it – and so, like you said, good for her.

        But the point I’m trying to make is that seeing as how explosive these seem to be, there had to be some really good reason for the DT to fight to keep them out. And whatever the reason for JM wanting them in, had to be, at least from his point of view, equally major – hence his repeated efforts to get them in. Which is why I caution people to view these with a bit of a skeptical eye – because there is something in this whole rat’s nest that is more than what we know, at least right now.

        • It is telling that the DT’s motion to preclude them came on 2/25/2013, which was during Jodi’s testimony. I bet JM was getting ready to fling them in her face alongside whatever the heck those “simulations” were, and Nurmi moved to have them precluded. The fact that they didn’t show up tends to point to JSS not letting them in, (in fact I think Nurmi argued in 2014 that she did so).

          So I think you are right. Which then brings up the question – what the heck are these simulations they’re talking about?

          Wonder if we’ll ever find out.

        • Now I understand what I have been reading on the dark side which is JA stole TA’s journals and from them using a computer was able to create a font of his hand writing and then typed the letters and since the letters were copies this is what JM probably wanted to show with the letters. I’m not computer savy, so could this really be done and how much technical expertise would you need, especially since there is slight variations which everyone has. What kind of a software program would you need in order to do this or is really letting your imagination run wild. Super Jodi, she can do everything and anything.

        • I dunno Al –

          I think the DT – Nurmi and Washington – knew from the get that the letters could do Jodi as much harm as good. Because she couldn’t produce the originals – and perhaps because Jodi had taken pictures of Travis’ writing on her phone (first I heard of that, but obviously the DT knew ages ago). Nurmi and Washington told their client it was unwise to push forward with the letters. So she got righteous and went pro per to get them in. When she realized the tide was against her, she backed down and gave the reins back to them, and they withdrew.

          Even that withdrawal gave JM motivation to try to get them in. So he kept trying. And the DT kept fighting it for the same reason(s) they didn’t want them in to begin with.

          NONE of which means that the letters were ACTUALLY forged. Just that the DT wasn’t likely to be able to prove their authenticity, and they knew that JM would throw all kinds of crap against the wall because they couldn’t.

        • It’s ridiculous to say there were any exemplars to aid Jodi in remotely attempting any duplication of Travis’ writing. Everything she had was jail house issue and they knew and controlled every single thing she had in the cell. What would she be doing, composing 10 letters of his–to say the least oddball writing style and mixed fonts– from out of her head?

          Then how would she pass them to anybody? I’m telling you the fantasies that take on a life here is so katty-whampus, it makes the Branch Davidians seem sane.

          There are so many moving pieces and players, it’s more complicated than musical chairs. If Victoria Washington had taken over lead counsel, this case would have been light years different from the way it went down.

          She was to have gotten the letters electronically through a third person. That alone is strange. But were they letters from him? That can be counted on to be reliable as a European train.

          • I’m not saying anything of the sort.

            I’m just wondering what the Heck this was all about. I mean you make a persuasive argument. If so why the hell didn’t the DT want them in. I mean, even if they had someone who could say they matched, and JM had someone who said they couldn’t make a certain determination, that should be enough to throw them into the ring. So why back down? That’s my question.

            I mean, how much can we write off to the DT’s miserable incompetence. If these are real – and not getting them in is incompetence, then this isn’t incompetence by omission – this is by commission.

            So, maybe Journee’s theory above has some credence.

            I just don’t know, but doesn’t it seem strange that the DT would be moving to keep this out?

            So far I had always been under the impression that JM was the one trying to keep them out – but now it seems that after that first attempt (on which the DT essentially capitulated – maybe intentionally) it was the DT that kept trying to keep them out.

            All I ask is “what’s up with that”?

            • We don’t know what went on in those bench conferences. We know for a fact how sleazy Martinez is and how he would have been manipulating the evidence. We also should be able to assume that Jodi certainly wouldn’t want them in if she knew they were doctored.

              I don’t think we can put a maximum on how inept the defense was–especially in the guilt phase.

              Why didn’t Nurmi put Fonseca and Pseudonym Smith back on the stand a few weeks ago? Just when he’s about to unload everything Smith had found and put Martinez right in the cross hairs, he capitulates.

              Nothing changed when the motion was denied the first time in my opinion as to the facts. If the letters had been admitted in the original motion, we would have seen testimony that Travis admitted in his own handwriting that he was a sicko and physically abused Jodi. There’s not a doubt in my mind.

              I also don’t underestimate the Utopian sleaze that Martinez is or what he would stoop to.

            • I think that it was Jodi who decided to back down bc undoubtedly JM pitched a raging fit and threatened the person who provided these copies to drag them into court and slap them with contempt, etc….within an inch of their life….Jodi has ALWAYS bent over backwards to help protect her family and friends from this egregious court process…..this is why she insisted that the courtroom be closed for her testimony which was to set up the testimony of the other mitigation witnesses….and when the courts overruled that and they had to open up the courtroom once again, Jodi went back to her protective mode with her friends/family to keep them from all this abuse and misery that JM was dishing out….and all the abuse and misery that the public at large would dish out to these witnesses….Didn’t he threaten Matt McCartney with some charge if he were to step one foot inside the courtroom to testify?? Or am I misremembering this ??? Please correct me if I am wrong on this…..I don’t believe for one second that Jodi had “sample hand writings” or “simulations” in her cell….think about it, just like Jade said, it would be impossible for her to accomplish forging 10 letters…..WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND TRIES TO FORGE 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 !!!!!! LETTERS ???????

                • IMHO you can NOT trust anything that proceeds forth from the corrupt mouth of JM……after watching him spend endless hours on irrelevant smoke and mirrors cross examinations just to confuse the jury and judge and to completely abandon his duty to seek justice and truth…he did everything but……..IMHO

              • What Journee and Al were discussing is most likely the reason Nurmi was arguing against them being admitted NOW because of the boneheaded original ruling of Stephens making them inadmissible.

                As I say we don’t know what sewer level assassination tactics Martinez spouted in the bench conferences. What he was going to do was use the original ruling to ridicule Geffner who relied on the letters in his evaluations.

                If the motion was drafted based on sound case citing precedent, the original request for admission of those letters should have been granted as pre-trial exhibits and given an exhibit number on the basis that were more probative than prejudicial. And on the basis that a proper foundation had to be laid for them to be admitted and made part of the record during trial.

                Once the clod brain denied that request, it created a catch 22 for the pig that wallows in mud where he’s most at home to wallow in his glop. And he was going to use it to impeach Geffner.

                Combine that with how easy Nurmi backs down and there you have it. It’s why the crackerjack attorneys win cases and the public defenders defend the penniless.

            • Oh Al, I just realized why you started you post with “I didn’t say anything of the sort.”

              I didn’t mean to imply whatsoever that YOU were stating fantasies that were katty-whampus.

              I apologize if you even remotely thought that.

              I absolutely hate hate hate hate writing.

              I wish we could all just be in a big group and be having oral conversation.

        • JM has a track record of conjuring up false accusations against anyone he perceives as his opponent…case in point about the June 19, 2009 destruction of evidence when the computers were recklessly and maliciously turned on….the Defense Team did it – was his charge….a laughable and outrageous false accusation….so when he says there are “simulations” in her cell you can be sure that there are none and he is full of it………IMHO

          • My mistake I see you stated that Nurmi mentions these “simulations” ….I will have to re-watch that hearing…..still don’t believe that Jodi had anything to do with the letters as far as forging them….they appear to be very real to me….and they fit all the evidence about TA…

            • Okay after reviewing the hearing video from 10-16-14 with regards to the letters….The accusation regarding some “simulations” in Jodi’s cell that KN mentioned in his argument was made by a state witness – Crydell or Cryell – can’t be for sure of the name – and then KN states sarcastically that he (Crydell) must have “mind reading abilities” in order to dismiss this notion that there was any such thing in Jodi’s cell….KN also stated that the state’s own expert did NOT say that the letters were forged but simply that it couldn’t be determined one way or another due to the “poor copy quality” of the letters….

              Nurmi was arguing that the original court ruling in Aug 2011 should stand due to collateral estoppel which in short means once litigated it can’t be re-litigated….KN was arguing this not bc he didn’t want to bring in the letters (that was a done deal – it had already been litigated and ruled on) but bc JM was trying to bring in the false accusation of the “simulations” supposedly found in Jodi’s cell through his usual sleaze alley……This hearing argument regarding this matter involved JM threatening to use a witness to rebutt the DT’s expert witnesses…… however, KN was arguing that his witnesses did not rely on the letters for their opinions and in fact had never seen the letters and therefore the state’s rebuttal witness was unnecessary and should be precluded…..KN was asserting that JM would propose “hypothetical situations regarding the letters” in his questioning in order to elicit the answers he sought from these defense witnesses and then use that testimony as an excuse to bring in his rebuttal witness with this false accusation that Jodi had “simulations” in her cell and that the letters were forgeries (which his own state expert did NOT say) and that the DT’s witnesses were relying on forged letters and therefore you can’t believe anything the DT’s witnesses stated… other words discredit the DT’s witnesses….so long story short JM wanted to inappropriately try to use this already litigated issue of the letters (through means of questioning about “hypothetical situations regarding the letters”) in order to discredit DT’s witnesses….so it is not that the DT did not want to bring in the letters….they did, but those were precluded in 2011….KN was simply trying to prevent JM from playing his sleaze ball tactics and use testimony elicited through “hypothetical situations” in order to bring in his sleaze ball accusation of “simulations” through his state rebuttal witness and claim the letters were forged in order to discredit the DT witnesses who supposedly relied on those letters (which they did NOT, they hadn’t even seen those letters)…..

              So it is quite a convoluted and complex dance that JM was involved in and KN did his job to protect Jodi from this…..there was no way that they could re-litigate the admissibility of the letters at this point..that was done…it was simply a matter of preventing JM from slithering down his usual slime alley……..(BTW, Kirk Nurmi knew that JM would try this sleaze ball tactic of eliciting testimony through use of “hypothetical situations regarding the letters” bc this is exactly what JM had done previously when interviewing these DT’s witnesses so Kirk knew that this is what he would do during testimony in front of the jury and KN wanted to prevent JM from doing this so he could falsely discredit his expert witnesses) Wow, I hope I wasn’t too confusing !!

              So guaranteed that there was nothing in those letters but TA’s admissions that he was a pedophile and nothing in there that would be detrimental to Jodi….there were no “simulations” – another false accusation by the state….JM has to be the most corrupt prosecutor I have ever seen or hope to ever see in my lifetime….IMHO

              And with regards to the Defense motion to preclude the letters on 2-25-13 I have to assume that it was a similar situation as described herein….that is that JM was trying to use that already litigated issue (knowing full well it could not be re-litigated and they would not be admissible due to the 2011 ruling) to the detriment of Jodi…I can’t find that motion so if someone could tell me where I could find that one I would like to read that one…

              Keep in mind that even the state’s own expert could not say that the letters were forged letters…only that he could not determine due to poor copy quality….KN had an expert state I believe that he was 80%? sure that they were the handwriting of TA….If they had been allowed in as JSS should have allowed we wouldn’t be talking about any of this today and Jodi would probably either already be out or soon to be out of jail with time served on a 2nd degree or manslaughter or not guilty…..

              • Right BB. That’s why JM wanted them in – because he was going to argue that they were forgeries. Hell he was arguing that without any evidence in any case – seems like he has a penchant for stating something as fact without one shred of evidence that it was in fact so. For instance he always referred to Grandpa’s stolen gun as being the gun Jodi stole, without one iota of evidence that such was the case, and in fact did the same thing with the letters – just stating they were forgeries without one scintilla of evidence that they in fact were. He did the same thing about the computer disks – just stated as “fact” that the old defense lawyers deleted stuff.

                I’m glad Nurmi called him out on that. In fact he did the same thing with respect to the hypothetical on whether the defense experts relied on the letter. Asked them a hypothetical, and then stated to JSS that they had in fact relied on the letters.

                Reminds me of the old joke, with a twist.

                “What’s the difference between JM and a carp”

                One is a bottom dwelling scum sucker and the other is a fish.

                But here’s the part I don’t get. The DT moved to get the letters admitted. The state opposed the motion. This was in 2011. At that time the state’s motion was really based on the legalities and weighing probative versus prejudicial value. That’s all OK. In fact his motion itself says very little about forgeries etc – probably because I don’t think his expert could say they were. Of course I have no idea what he said in argument, but I guarantee the chances of JM being straightforward in oral argument are about as good as that of pigs flying out of his butt. However, once the defense withdrew their objection to the state’s objection to preclude, it was all over. They basically conceded the issue to him.

                Now could it have been Jodi trying to protect someone – could be. But heck she introduced the issue when she was acting pro per (or am I wrong about that?). Why change the tune now – unless she didn’t realize that the legalistics would require some chain of custody and foundation setting. (Another reason why they say a person acting pro per has a fool for a client). If not what changed?

                • I agree that JM wouldn’t know the truth if it smacked him in the face, nor does he care…it is all about winning with him at any costs including making up “facts” which really aren’t facts and stating them as if they are facts….it’s called PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT ……IMHO

                  I have always believed that everything Jodi has done or not done in this case was to ultimately protect the reputation of TA whom she had loved greatly….I don’t know how these letters were introduced…I really don’t remember that….it could be that Jodi’s Mom or someone close to her who loved her and was very concerned about the fact that she was being charged with capital murder with a death penalty looming over her head sent them electronically to the DT hoping that this would help to free her from this mess….I don’t know who that was…….Matt, Sandy, etc…?? And I don’t know how they had gotten copies of those letters or when they obtained those copies….perhaps Matt knew exactly where those letters were hidden afterall Jodi still had a cordial friendship with Matt…and he retrieved them and made copies and sent them to the DT….all without Jodi knowing bc he could see that she was willing to go to the death chamber in order to protect TA’s reputation and he probably felt that the likes of TA who abused her was not worth that risk..remember he (Matt) is the one that Jodi showed the abusive marks on her neck to …….I believe that the originals are still hidden somewhere in Yreka and Matt or Sandy or someone close to Jodi knows where they are but isn’t talking….JM threatened Matt if he ever came into court to testify so I believe it was Matt who may have sent the letters to the DT……Just a guess again…..Remember the notes that she wrote on the magazine ? Weren’t those notes going to Matt? Were those notes in reference to Jodi’s anger about Matt “F’ing up” bc she was angry that he had sent the DT copies of those letters? I can’t remember what exactly was said in the magazine notes but probably should go back and read those again if I can find them and review them….Now the defense team on 2-25-13 offered a motion to withdraw the letters (preclude) them….I am guessing that this was a similar situation to the one I described above where JM is inappropriately trying to use the letter issue to damage Jodi when he knows the letter issue was already litigated and ruled on in 2011 and could not be re-litigated or have them admitted….JM wanted to have his cake and eat it to…they (the letters) had been denied admission into court but yet he still wanted to use that issue inappropriately to damage the DT’s witnesses as I described above…I don’t believe that there was anything in those letters other than TA admitting he was a disgusting pedophile…..Jodi has told the truth but no one wanted to believe her bc she had been labeled a liar in part thanks to the Brady violations, prosecutorial misconduct and perjured testimony….this is all my theory on this issue….but it makes the most sense to me….

                • Good Morning Maria 🙂 You are welcome….it is so convoluted you really have to parse it out a word at a time….but this is the corruptness of JM….he has no conscience IMHO…he is souless…

  24. Does anyone know if Travis wrote right-handed or left-handed? By the looks of his handwriting, it looks like he wrote right-handed and both writings are consistent with someone who used their right hand.

  25. If I remember correctly Jodi destroyed the originals of the letters. Courts usually do not accept copies because of the ease of forgery (computer copy/paste ect.) If Jodi had the originals why in the world would she not produce them. Didn’t the State claim Matt McCartney produce the letters? Maybe I am remembering wrong.

    • I believe she safely tucked those away to protect TA…perhaps it was Matt that sent them to DT ?? and this is perhaps why he was threatened by JM to scare him and make him back off – his usual bullying sleazy tactic – I don’t think Jodi would ever destroy those letters (it was a piece of TA) but if she did she did it to protect TA…everything she did was to protect him and his reputation…she loved him…

      If she did destroy them to protect him then why the copies…….it defeats the purpose of destroying the originals….so many questions we have….

      • Travis might have sent Jodi a copy and destroyed the original because he had experience with copies not being allowed as evidence in court. That way he could avoid (in his mind) at least the legal jeaopardy of being prosecuted directly for child abuse due to the letters if one of the children or their parents ever came forward.

  26. I bet JM was going to pull another magazine moment if he fought so hard to get them in. And didn’t he threaten Matt McCartney with charges of purgery if he testified? I think that had to do with these letters. I am with you Al something is not right about the letters.

    • He was trying to discredit the DT’s expert witnesses that’s why he wanted to use this issue of the “simulations” supposedly found in Jodi’s cell so he could claim that the letters were forged (which his own expert did NOT say) and so he could state falsely that the DT’s experts were relying on these “forged” letters and therefore you can not believe anything the expert witnesses have to say….in other words, to discredit the DT’s expert witnesses….there is always a method to JM’s sleaze ball tactics…

      I tried to explain it in detail above…but don’t know if I just confused everyone including myself LOL !!!!

  27. WOW guys!!! Fantastic brainstorming last night! IMHO BB you really did a great job of explaining what the whole mess was about regarding why the DT didn’t want the letters in.
    I’m going to go back to said the night we started talking about the letter. I’m not Journee knew but it’s a maybe could have.
    Perhaps TA wanted the letter back. I thought that she just made a copy of it. But maybe she could have taken a screen shot with her phone? My question is: was it the same phone that Jodi’s aunt found in the truck and turned over to the DT?? I do not believe there is a original to be had. I don’t think Matt had anything to do with the letters/letter. Maybe just maybe BN is the one who extracted everything off from Jodi’s lost phone and got the picture of the letter. I really do not think Jodi had some program on her computer that can forge somebody’s handwriting. 1. I don’t think she could afford it. 2. She was in jail. I also don’t believe she sat in her cell day after day try to duplicate his handwriting. Jodi is left handed and no matter how many times she tried there would be tattletale evidence of it. I honestly think it would take a master who does forgery to duplicate TA’s writingand I would assume they don’t come cheap….
    I do not doubt that Jodi mon after finding out that the letter was not going to get into evidence did try to sell? or give them to the media. I sure would have done the same thing. Oh BTW she didn’t just approach the Enquirer I’m sure that was a last judge effort to get it out in the open.
    So now I do have a question. What is all this about 10 letters?? What are they about? It seems odd that TA wouldn’t just send a email unless they were more omission regarding his paedophilia.

    • Now Cindy that’s a new one I hadn’t heard before and could be true. What if TA wrote the damn things and then asked for them back? Sort of like making her tear pages out her journal.

      I guess she would probably have given them back – seems like she did everything TA wanted in any case – but might have made a copy.

      You might be onto something there Ms Cindy.

      • Yes!! I like cindy’s way of thinking too. Travis had made Jodi do all kinds of stuff, she was never able to stand her ground and just say “Hell, NO!” . For example, tearing up journal pages as you said; or sending that e-mail to Abe and then making her send it to him as well so he could confirm she did do it (thus, exercising his absolute power on her) and so on…. It was a game of control ; Travis always had the upper hand. He may have confessed his sickness to Jodi through those letters BUT he may have threatened her and/or scared the shit outta her so she would give them back to him. And in the course of this argument, Jodi decided to make copies so that she could use them to *make* Travis seek professional help to fight his sick tendencies.

        (Of course, if a hater was to read my last sentence you know what they’d say? “No, she made copies to blackmail him” Okeyyyyyyyyyyyy…… )

    • Good morning Cindy 🙂 If BN or any DT expert had found these letters on the computer or phone or some other electronic device they would have documented that and introduced that as evidence or tried to introduce that as evidence….we would have heard about that….in other words we would have heard the arguments in court about say for example BN had extracted these letters from the computer hard drive or the phones….so I don’t think that happened….and you’re right I don’t believe that Jodi had some computerized copy of his handwriting and made up 10 letters…no way….so this leaves someone else out there sending them to the DT….I just posted above about that….and it is possible that TA wanted those original letters back and she very well may have given them back but apparently she made copies first….the 10 letters are letters where TA admits his problems of pedophilia to Jodi….they may not all be as specific as the one we have been able to see online but I am sure that each one of them has some incriminating evidence against TA that shows his problem with porn/pedophilia…..he certainly would never send an email about this subject bc emails will live forever somewhere online….he could not control that….he could control just sending a letter to one person, Jodi, whom he trusted implicitly at least for a time he trusted her….TA seemed really impulsive to me or rather someone who had ups and downs in his mood and Jodi said he was a people pleaser…so after Jodi discovers this terrible secret of his when she walks in on him he goes into CYA mode and wants to explain and over-explain himself in a series of letters that he probably sent off in fairly quick succession….he had to know that she understood him and that she would not tattle on him to authorities or anybody else….it’s like he had to keep reassuring himself that he could trust her with this secret….and then when she left to go back to CA he could no longer control her as well….that’s why he continued to call her and try to control her over the phone….he was building more and more anxiety about his secret and those letters and was afraid if Jodi moved on to someone else she may tell someone else and his secret would be out and his life ruined…this kind of information is extremely dangerous and I don’t believe that Jodi ever understood how dangerous this information was for her to have….I have always said that she was the woman who knew too much…it can get you killed and often does….it just happens that Jodi got the upper hand and she is the survivor 🙂 the terrible rant that went on for 6 hours via email, text, chat, phone. that Dr. F talked about in testimony I believe had an underlying thread/anger about this subject matter of his secret…you could tell he was desperate to keep her under his control even going so far as to ask her if she was seeing anyone else….the fatal error came when she agreed to come back and visit him again…she simply didn’t realize the trauma he was in over this matter and how that information that she had put her in an extremely dangerous position and it was an explosive situation that exploded….

  28. There was a comment up the thread somewhere (and I can’t find it any more) about some folks claiming she created a font and used that to create the letters! I guess whoever claimed that did it right after they got back from the UFO where the aliens had taken them in order to impregnate them with the seed of silver grey martians or something. Jeez the things these yahoos will say to counter any evidence favorable to the defense seems to know no bounds.

    Creating fonts is not an easy task, though there are software packages you can use. But the biggest thing about those packages is that they work with regular lines and curves, so you don’t get “hinky” shaped lines and curves in your letters. If you do have those, then you must generate the fonts, using your own little lines and curves. Plus each letter can only be of certain sizes (8, 10, 12 pt etc.) anything else you have to create by hand. Lastly when you type the computer tends to lay things out in straight lines with even spacing. In order to get something like those letters, you essentially have to lay out a blank canvas, then place each and every letter down by hand on skewed lines, with uneven spacing. And before you do any of that you have to create each letter, by carefully defining the shape so the computer can get it.

    Can it be done – sure.
    Is it easy – heck no, even for seasoned graphics artists.

    The chances of that being the case are about the same as those of JM making a straight forward truthful argument and of JSS making a prompt decision. Might as well put on ruby slippers and click your heels three times.

    • ” I guess whoever claimed that did it right after they got back from the UFO where the aliens had taken them in order to impregnate them with the seed of silver grey martians or something. ”

      Sounds about right. It’s the story Chris Hughes is peddling.

    • Hey bro thanks for the laugh!! It seems to me this whole trial has been a love fest for all the crazies out there. I’m not sure if what I wrote in my post was even possible but it was more a hypothetical.

      Oh BTW the state side reposted the “Letter”
      with a long letter from Sky… Oh yes she explains how they got a copy of they letter. Hummm. Now I’m not about to believe a stories from people that have told how stories of when they left for Cancun?? She also states what a lying SOB KN was. I just have to lmao about all of what she said. They are doing damage control….

      I still don’t understand why people can not even entertain the thought that Travis might have had a problem after listening to the sex tape.

      • Good morning Cindy

        They can’t entertain the thought because it would be like the little hairline crack on a dam.

      • I don’t think I read a single word which made me change my mind OR think Sky has proven her point. WTF is she talking about? Blah, blah,blah………….

        Hey Sky, next time you look into your son’s eyes, do ALL mothers a favor and fucking act like one please!! LOOK IN YOUR SON’S EYES AND LET THE DAMN THOUGHT CROSS YOUR NUMB MIND : “WHAT IF? WHAT IF? WHAT IF? “

        • Yeah. Apparently just by Sky saying it’s a forgery makes it so and the rest of those sheeple just go along with it. One nitwit even says it doesn’t even look like Travis’ handwriting. And what known writing samples are they looking at? Oh, right, none.

    • Thanks Al, like I said it was the dark side theory on how JA forged the letters, all from her jail cell. I don’t know much about pc’s but even that sounded crazy to me. lol

  29. Folks I have a question that’s a little off topic but maybe someone can help (explanation follows).

    I know there was a 2008 clone/image of the disk and then one done in 2009. Does anyone know when the 2008 image/clone (and I never could figure out which the state gave the defense) was turned over to the defense? I just never could figure that out because we didn’t see the actual testimony during the evidentiary hearing and I haven’t had the time to watch the tapes.

    The reason I ask this is because as I was looking around for the various motions to preclude/include the letters on the plane yesterday, I came across an interesting bit of activity in the minutes about the computer stuff. At one stage the defense was yelling out loud about not having the all the computer stuff (this was pretty late in the game). It seems to me that JM put the onus for that question on Mesa PD (I’m reading between the lines but JSS actions seem to warrant that conclusion). So what JSS did was issue an order for Flores to appear in her chambers the next day. He did, and testified that the Mesa PD had turned over everything. The minutes then go on to say that based on Flores’ testimony JSS rued that the state had turned over everything and denied whatever motion it was that the Defense had made.

    Now of course IF the 2008 image/clone had not been turned over that was clearly a lie. If JM thought he could sneak it in by claiming ignorance and letting the Mesa PD fall on that sword he would be sorely mistaken. In fact, as the Milke appeal showed, the actions of the PD are directly attributable to the prosecutor. From a legal point of view it doesn’t make a hoot of a difference if JM misrepresented or Flores.

  30. OK I just figured this all out. Not only does Jodi have magic powers, but she has mastered the art of being able to copy peoples voices. It was never TA voice on the sex tape it was that crazy Jodi doing her Vudu again. 🙄

  31. The work that would be required to create fonts for this letter is astronomical because one would not only have to create a font for each letter in the alphabet but also for each individual letter in the document, otherwise (unless I am behind in the technology) every letter of the same type would look exactly the same (all A’s would be identical, etc.). I challenge anyone to find any two letters in that document that when laid one on top of the other are exactly identical in every respect. And they are claiming someone did this for ten letters?

    • And then there’s the whole cut & paste argument. But again, unless you want all the same words to look exactly alike you would have to cut out individual letters and then string them all together, or else have a whole plethora of written documents to cut & paste from. Does anyone here believe that could be done without being detectible? Photoshopping creates similar problems. So how anyone can plant in their own minds that this is a forgery is truly mind boggling to anybody who actually thinks.

      • I’m thinking you would have to belong to the “Kool-Aid drinking Cult” to believe this is a forgery. Because they have stated it is, they truly believe people will believe them. 😆 They are really living in their own personal twilight zone.

        • They cannot entertain the idea that they may just be WRONG!! Just a bunch of lazy sheep rounded up and led by the nose.


    10) Number of personal Facebook/Twitter accounts: 1. Number of fake Facebook/Twitter accounts: unlimited.
    9) Got 2 In A Room’s “Wiggle It (Just A Little Bit)” on your iPod.
    8) Enjoy impersonating others albeit badly more than Rich Little.
    7) React to Jodi not getting the death penalty akin to Dave Hall being told there’s no more Ben &
    Jerry’s left in this world.
    6) Your inner circle is filled with squares.
    5) 9 out of 10 days you hate Jodi Arias. The other 1 day? You dislike her.
    4) Your journalistic views are unbalanced much like your mental state.
    3) You think your propensity for fraud makes you an expert in detecting alleged forgery.
    2) You now suffer from triskaidekaphobia: the fear of the number 17.
    1) You hate me right about now.

  33. GOOD SATURDAY TO TEAM JODI!!!!! How wonderful that once again the Cashes are rising above the evil to set everyone straight with their knowledge of crime scenes, computers, trial documents and now forgery. What an amazing duo of knowledge! I’m certainly amazed at their devoted dedication to preserving the memory of a sick, disturbed, perverted abuser. Amazing the lies that they will spin at the misfortune of something that has happened to children and maybe even their own. What if your wrong Mr. and Mrs. Cash, what if? The damage has been done. Nope that is no forgery. Fool yourself, too bad. . .fool the public, NO WAY!!!
    Such a shame to be blinded by the dollars blinking in your eyes. $ $ 🙄

  34. This I offer for Mr. and Mrs. Chris Hughes:

    Proverbs 28:6
    Better is the poor who walks in his integrity Than he who is crooked though he be rich.

    • Save yout breath, my sweet R! The Hughes don’t understand what Religion is all about – which is Love and Forgiveness. Right?
      They are HYPOCRITES! One of Chris’ laters tweets:

      Chris Hughes ‏@cshughes 26 Mar
      @stellabella310 @tarakelley320 @juanstie @CourtPencil @bychristinebswk you know you suck when God rejects you.

      ^^^^ talking about Jodi of course… 🙄

      • Always hoping to show them the light, Maria. It probably is a big waste of time but I can say I gave it a try. . .for what that is worth.
        Those are very strong words coming from a proven liar. He really should be careful who he mocks. God has proven He is with and surrounds Jodi and everything she does or she wouldn’t be able to survive this ordeal. God protects His own. Too bad for the Hughes, they don’t get it. The truth will prevail in this, I never doubt it.

        • Amen R. Love!!

          God will not be mocked, even by the CASHS and the false religions. The wheat and shaft will be separated.

          • Can’t say we never warned them what the future holds.
            Matthew 4:7 Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.

  35. Okay, I just went over to the other site to see what the latest is….so Sky has an explanation about the letters posted today on that site…although I can not take everything she says as truth, I wonder about the dates…the dates of the letters are supposedly all from January through May of 2007 so this is troublesome to me….If Jodi testified that the incident with TA on the bed,etc….happened in January of 2008 and the letter we just all saw online referenced that incident then that incident seals the date of the letter so it should be 2008. Now, I can understand how at the beginning of the year you continue to put the previous year down by accident out of habit, but to do it for all 10 letters over the course of several months is very troublesome…so does anyone here know what the dates of all the letters are? So just when I think I have thought all this out logically, I find something that sends me in a different direction….Give me your thoughts everyone, please…

      • I don’t but in Sky’s letter of explanation that is posted at the other website she states that all of them are dated from January -May of 2007…so this is the question I have as well…..I will need to go back and check the 2011 motions/rulings on the letters if they are available online…if anyone has a link on those please post it….thanks

        • BB, I had just read this yesterday so it was fresh in my mind. Please note the dates of the letters are between NOV 27/2006 and MAY 27/2008 per second paragraph of this motion.

          ( Taken from )
          Filed : 7/23/2010 10:56:56 AM

          I. FACTS

          On July 9, 2008, defendant Jodi Arias was indicted on one count of first degree premeditated murder, or in the alternative, felony murder, for an offense that occurred on or about June 4, 2008. The victim was Travis Alexander, with whom defendant had a relationship. On November 6, 2008, the State filed its amended notice of intent to seek the death penalty and aggravating factors.

          On June 1, 2010, defendant disclosed to the State copies of ten handwritten letters purportedly written by Mr. Alexander during the period from November 27, 2006, to May 27, 2008. On June 10, 2010, the State filed a motion to preclude the letters, arguing that they were hearsay not covered by any exception and were not relevant evidence in this case.

          On June 18, 2010, the State made an oral motion for disclosure of the original handwritten letters. Defense counsel indicated that Ms. Arias had received copies of the letters electronically from a third person. This court ordered additional briefing on that issue.

          On June 22, defendant filed a Notice of Defenses, noticing that she intended to assert justification defenses under A.R.S. §§ 13-405 and 13-415. Defendant had previously attributed the crime to intruders. She now argues that all of the letters must be admitted to support her domestic violence defense. However, the letters remain hearsay and remain irrelevant, regardless of defendant’s change in defense strategy.

            • BB, I checked out that post that was supposedly Sky through Chatty. The part about the toys and videos in the attic is something that I have never heard before. For me, that is an additional event if Sky and Chatty are telling us some form of the truth. T-Dogg keeps things that he wants private in his attic.

              “In 2010, with these letters, came Jodi’s new story that she had been cleaning Travis’ attic, and came across children’s toys and videos. Which is obviously a far cry from what she testified to under oath during the trial. A picture floating down to her feet and an admission to “raping little boys” is a huge difference. Neither of these stories and what she said happened that day matched her journal, text and phone records. If I remember correctly, the letters about abuse are dated from January to May of 2007. “

                • Missed your comment yesterday……..I agree that there is some truth slipping out…..the new owners of this house turned over some stuff from the attic that was left there….so we now know that they were toys/videos….hmmmm, wonder what those were used for and why were they hidden in the attic???? Oops, are we confirming that TA was a pedophile, perhaps????

      • Exactly. HOW do you/we know the date of all 10 letters? Sky’s word doesn’t count.

        The Hughes say “Good Morning” to you? You gotta run to the window and check if it’s morning time.

        They are incapable of NOT lying. The truth and the Hughes are strangers.

    • She hedged that comment, though, BB – said something like “if I remember correctly”.

      Plus, her name is Sky Hughes, so she’s a liar.

      Unless the other letters are released and we can see those dates for ourselves, what Mrs CASH says is meaningless.

      • Thank you Journee, you are so right she did hedge and in this world words mean everything so now I will still try to verify, but I have more leaning to her not “remembering” correctly… if someone comes up with the 2011 motions/rulings before I do, please post as I would think that these motions would clearly spell out how many letters and the dates of those letters in the motions and the ruling…I believe the ruling was Aug 15, 2011 according the the hearing I listened to last night from 10-16-14….

        • And I have to keep reminding myself of the totality of the evidence even from Sky and Chris’s own mouths when they stated in their email to TA that he “gutted women”…. he abused women…. he was using Jodi as his “booty call” ….. TA calling himself a bit of a “sociopath” …..TA talking about 12 year old girls on the phone sex tape……and on and on….and his own sexual behavior with Jodi… all points to someone who has severe problems with controlling himself….so why if you are going to forge a letter in order to bolster your case or your story would you try to forge not one but 10 letters!! No one would do that…they would forge a letter or two at most just enough to document what you wanted to document but 10 letters, no way….

          I need to stop giving a benefit of the doubt to those who seek to destroy Jodi and hide the truth….

          • I’m just catching up a bit here today, but wanted to comment in response to BB’s remark about “words” because these particular “words” have always bothered me: Booty Call.

            That expression became part of the vernacular in the US during the mid-late 90s in reference to casual sex, usually somewhat clandestine, between people who are not openly dating one another. Referring to a female as a male’s “booty call” is derogatory. It assumes that the female is allowing the male to have casual sex with her. It also assumes that the male is using the female for no other purpose than to fulfill his own sexual needs. I think all of us here at JAII will agree that is exactly what Travis was doing with Jodi.

            The Hughes are Mormons, who portray themselves as very devout Mormons, . Travis was also Mormon. In fact, he had the Melchizedek priesthood conferred upon him. Priesthood is not uncommon in the Mormon church for males, as I understand it. However, it is not conferred unless the recipient meets certain moral standards which would include abstinence from sexual relations outside of the covenant of marriage. Travis portrayed himself as a 30 year old virgin. Most people who knew him assumed that to be true. The only people who knew otherwise were the women he had sexual relations with. Several of his friends and roommates have stated publicly that they believed he was a virgin. Members of his own family have also stated they believed he was a virgin — including his brother that he was very close with.

            So then, why exactly would the Hughes use those words, booty call, in regards to Travis’s relationship with Jodi? The obvious answer is that they were fully aware that Travis was NOT the 30 year old virgin he portrayed himself as. And they were also fully aware that Travis, a priest in the Mormon church, was having sexual relations with Jodi.

            Keep in mind that Jodi was also a Mormon, albeit a convert. Prior to her conversion, Jodi lived with a man. Jodi spent a great deal of time with the Hughes and had frank discussions with them about many things, including her relationship with Travis and her concerns about his commitment level. One can reasonably assume, therefore, that she had disclosed her prior relationship to them. Therefore, they would not have assumed that Jodi was a virgin.

            But, if they did not know that Travis and Jodi were having sexual relations, why did they accuse him of using Jodi as his booty call? Why would they use those particular words?

            Even more interesting is that they allowed and apparently, encouraged Travis and Jodi to meet at their house on multiple occasions and stay overnight. While I haven’t read the entire email chain they wrote to Travis, I don’t recall them saying they were angry that Travis used their home as the venue for these booty calls. Does anyone have knowledge of that ever being said?

            I’ve known many devout Christians who discovered that their children or their friends had sexual relations in their homes and they were livid, feeling their homes had been desecrated. And yet, the Hughes never appeared to have been angry about their home, in which their children live, being desecrated by Travis engaging in sexual relations there with Jodi. How many other women had Travis brought to their home and stayed overnight to engage in sexual relations? Why was that not a problem for them? Did they not mind that Travis, a priest in their faith, was having sexual relations with women?

            • You are exactly right….I believe that the Hughes knew very well that TA was not a virgin and they allowed him to have his little “booty calls” at their home…….you would never use a term like “booty calls” unless you knew what was going on bc the term is so vulgar as you stated……so much for the laws of chastity or whatever…..The reputation of the Mormon church is what has driven the narrative on this story and this case from the beginning….everything and anything for the sake of preserving the almighty righteous reputation of the Mormon church…this is the height of hypocrisy and lies….IMHO….and this IMHO is why all the coverup and destruction/hiding/tampering of exculpatory evidence in this case….it all must come out for the sake of Jodi and for the sake of justice….

              • Right BB. The Hughes are in their 40s, so pretty much my generation (I’m 49). My fiance is 39 (yeah, i know I’m a cougar). I provide our ages for reference purposes. “Booty call” is a term that neither I nor my fiance grew up with (I did not grow up in the US, but have been here since age 20) and he’s lived here all his life. I can’t even remember now what we used to refer to a “booty call” when I was a young adult in the US. I think we just said “Girl, he’s using you for sex.” Or, “Dude, you’re just using her for sex.” We also didn’t have the term “friends with benefits,” back then. So, if the male or female responded to us that it was acceptable, they would just say something like “Yeah, we have an arrangement. We just have sex, and it’s all good between us.” Whereas, today, someone would say “Yeah, we’re friends with benefits” and everyone would have the same inference.

                But we’re not Mormon and so, having sex before marriage is not something those in our social circles found objectionable or something to be ashamed of. In fact, it would be considered “strange” in the social circles we’ve lived in for a couple NOT to have sex before marriage. So, we’re quite the opposites of these Mormons, aren’t we?

                But there is no other meaning of “booty call” that I can even come up with. I can’t even imagine that it has some other meaning in Mormon social circles. It is ALWAYS a reference that has sexual connotations.

                To even compare it fairly, I have to think about a 10 year old who comes home and says “Mum, I’m dating someone I go to school with. Can you drive us to get ice cream on Saturday?” “Dating” for little kids is not sexual (well, hopefully not anyway). You wouldn’t tell a 10 year old who was “dating” 3 girls in his class “Dude, you’re just using her for a booty call.”

                So, I have NO other understanding of this other than, the Hughes knew Travis has sex with women. By the very fact that they used this term, presumably, they knew Jodi was NOT his first sexual partner. In fact, I’d have to say that because they used this term, they were fully aware that she was also NOT the first woman he had used as a “booty call.” And they knew a lot more about him and his sexual liaisons than they’ve been admitting in their multiple interviews, comments, tweets, etc.

                It’s weird for me to even talk about this in a way. I actually only know one person (a very devout Evangelical Christian) who would even have considered that adults could date without having sex. She is 100% convinced that her younger brother is a 40 year old virgin. She was shocked beyond belief when her older widowed brother moved in with his new girlfriend (which, to her (and everyone else), implied that they were having sex) but had decided not to marry. I mean, even my fiance’s parents (who are in their very late 60s, early 70s) realize that we have sex. Sex is natural, normal.

                So, sure, it would be very normal for someone in my social circles to accuse a guy of using someone for a “booty call” and thereby, hurting her on an emotional level because she assumed there was more between them than just sex.

                But that isn’t the “norm” in these Mormon social circles at all because you’re not supposed to have sex before marriage (in fact, not even with yourself). So them using that term means they were aware, fully aware, that Travis did not abide by all the Mormon rules. And, in fact, they even condoned him using their home as the venue for his “booty calls.” Well, as long as he intended to (or thought there was a possibility that he might) marry the woman later, apparently. If they could be so adamantly against that rule, a basic facet of being Mormon, and support his unmarried sexual proclivities with women so far as to allow him to conduct them in their own home where their children live, how can we EVER believe anything else they say? How can anyone?

                • You can not believe anything they say as far as I’m concerned as they have shown themselves clearly to be covering up for TA even though they know the truth….again protecting that almighty reputation of the Mormon Church……it is the “club” mentality…they all belong to the “club” ………..

                • Like I mentioned before some one should consider getting Child and Family Service involved. If these people are not more interested in the abuse that has happened to their young men, then some thing needs to change. They are all sick! Sick Sick Sick!!! Lying For The Lord? Ignorant Morons!

  36. Okay if you want to see the verification on these letters go to court docs above and look at the 7-23-2010 filing by the state “Reply to Defendant’s Response; Motion to Preclude Letters Purportedly Written by Travis Alexander to Defendant” In this motion it states that the 10 letters were disclosed to the state on June 1, 2010 and that these ten letters were written between the time frame of : (And these were letters written by TA to Jodi):

    November 27, 2006 – May 27, 2008

    So there you have it….It certainly is possible now that I see this that the 10 letters (some of which were written in the January – May period of 2008) did indeed cover the time period commencing with the January 2008 discovery by Jodi of TA masturbating to the photo of a male child…..

    So once again we have half truths or flat out lies by the other side to try to quell the uproar and to deceive the public about these letters and their authenticity……

    I try to give all sides a fair shake with the evidence and if it points to something I am bothered by I will state that….but I like the TRUTH PLEASE ! AND GIVE ME NO LIES !!!

    • This whole case, both sides, are LIES.
      Certainly with more passage of time and leaks here and there, miss-steps here and there, the TRUTH WILL
      become apparent.

          • It IS spring time Justus, there are floods coming and unlike the Dutch boy, we can handle the floods, and will go with the flow holding on to each and every drip and drop that comes our way.
            Let everyone of those involved in these muddy waters we call NO justice in Mesa come clean with the TRUTH.

      • ” This whole case, both sides, are LIES. ”

        Carol, I’m a bit confused or probably am reading worng what you ‘re saying. What do you mean?

        • Maria
          To me, and probably a few others, I found the defense’s attempt to make this a ‘domestic violence ase’, it doesn’t ring true to me. It was ‘a defense’ they were familiar with and thought they could defend. But an abused woman, having successfully walked away from her abuser, doesn’t travel a very long way to see him. Sure, Travis wasn’t a great guy as is obvious now. Jodi would never wanted to kill him. She prided herself on being able to continue a ‘being friends’ with her old boyfriends. I thoroughly understand that many supporters of Jodi have been in abusive relationships, and I have sincere sympathy for all they went through. I just don’t believe anything about the story that Jodi killed Travis. I believe, after giving much thought and careful analysis to what happened during her long, long interrogation, that she was led to believe the only way out of her ‘interrogation’ hell was to give out a story, still protecting her innocence, but involving others. She had repeatedly said she wasn’t there, she said she had been successful in avoiding the ‘guilting’ to go there. But faced with ‘everyone of his friends’ implicating her. and the two detectives prodding her, she capitulated. It would be hard not to do, given the persistence by Flores that they had everything they needed to convict her.
          The defense attorneys were use to dealing with guilty clients, they thought they were doing the right thing. My own personal opinion is that the did not help her, they should have believed her and defended her innocence above all else. They did not. The jury was told he didn’t like her, he didn’t maker her in the least a likeable person. Those are the defense attorney;s LIES.
          The prosecutors LIES are monumental. No time of death, instead a convenient date that could have Jodi at Travis’ home. No fingerprints, and there should have been many. No weapons, and if she took the knife there would have been blood somewhere on the rental car, as she suggested to Flores. But there was no blood in or on the rental car: NONE not even a minute speck.
          The defense LIED and the prosecution LIED.
          I could go on, and on, and on. I know this is not a ‘popular’ view of the case, I wish it was.

          • It rings far, far more true to me than the nutball notion there were invaders in the middle of the daytime, right in suburbia. The chaos of the scene PROVES there was no premeditation. You clearly never followed this case from the beginning.

            This was a domestic violence case. You are calling Jodi Arias a liar under oath.

            • No tonysam, the truth is what she spoke for days and days hour upon hour. She wasn’t there.
              She did not kill Travis.

              • Of course she was there You don’t belong on this site at all.

                I am done with you forever. You think she is making the whole thing up, and you have nothing to do support it.

                • Tonysam, hi. You don’t get to decide who is on this site and who isn’t. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. As long as there’s mutual respect among each other, each person is entitled to their opinion.

                  We would appreciate if you respected everyone posting here. If you don’t like what they have to say, just move on and don’t reply. We don’t do infighting and drama here.

                  This is a one time warning.

                • tonysam,
                  I do not agree with the intruders story either but I ask questions in a respectful manner or I read everything and choose not to comment. I do not go around verbally attacking my fellow posters and losing my temper just like you usually do when you see intruder story posts. I’ve known you for a long time and I know you’ve been here supporting Jodi since 2013 (if memory serves me right). But lately I feel like asking you: How does this behavior make you any different than the hating bullies?
                  Take Rasna Admin’s advice, if you don’t like some of the posts scroll down. 😉

          • Carol, I really respect a lot of what you have to say — even in parts of this comment. But you don’t know many abused women, obviously, and you don’t really understand what it’s like. And that’s part of the problem in our society with understanding domestic violence, basically, because we, the abused women, do things that are idiotic, almost suicidal at times. And it it doesn’t make ANY sense. Things I put up with, things I did, they don’t make ANY sense to me 4 years later. I used to say I was the walking dead. Now, I look back and I’m so totally ashamed of shit I went along with and how I didn’t see it was abuse even before I married the bastard. All the signs were there, for crying out loud. I just didn’t know because no one ever told me what the “signs were — and to be fair, if they had, I might not have believed them anyway.

            And yes, you’re partially right, once an abused woman *realizes* that she’s been in a domestic violence relationship, she usually doesn’t travel to see the abuser again. The key word there is “realizes.” But sometimes, even after that, even after an abuser has been convicted and imprisoned for his abuse of, and even attempts to murder, a woman, that woman will STILL take him back. And my God, I am so annoyed sometimes at women who do that that I’ve spent a great deal of time talking to. I can’t even tell you how much it annoys me. I can’t even describe how much I want to end my friendship with women who do that and tell them that they’re only setting themselves up for another incident. When it happens with women who have kids, and the bastard has also abused their kids, I get sooo angry sometimes. How can they be so stupid? Don’t they realize that they’re taking the bastard back to set up another situation where they might not make it out of and their kids might end up getting raised by the bastard and without a mother?

            There’s a woman I consider a friend who’s doing that right now. She has been in a shelter with one of her kids, while he was in jail for beating her so badly. She took him back and had another child with him. Her kids are having major problems in school because of all the abuse. She got balls last year and threw him out, but claimed no one could watch her kids while she worked — that was true — so he kept his hooks in her. Then, he faked a stroke and she took him back. And he just beat the living crap out of her again and she didn’t call the damn police.

            Or the women who keep going back to the assholes who are abusing them but haven’t hit them “much” and they wonder “Well, maybe he just needs someone to love him.” Or “well, he pushed me once, that’s not REAL abuse.” There’s a woman I know who recently got on a freaking plane to fly to England from IN to see her on-again, off-again abusive sorta-ex. Why? It doesn’t make logical sense to me anymore either. But I know the draw of these damn relationships. I know what it’s like. I did the same stupid stuff too — not identical, but I can relate.

            I can’t stop being there for these women because maybe, just maybe, some day, they’ll have had enough. And everyone else deserts them. And I see the patterns, what they’re falling for, but they don’t yet. So I cry and I scream and I get angry — not at them. But because I understand. I get it. I’ve been there, done that.

            These are all things that it’s easy for me to say now, 4+ years after I left my abusive ex. It’s easy because I’m in a very loving supportive relationship. I’ve been through a LOT of therapy. But listen again to the “sex tape” with Travis and Jodi. Listen to her go along with things, put up with things, agree with him. Just listen with an open mind.

            I don’t have a good argument for whether or not there were intruders. Sometimes, I think there were. Sometimes, I think there weren’t. Jodi doesn’t remember much of that day. So, she hasn’t told me what really happened. But one thing I’m very clear about is that this relationship WAS abusive. We, as a society, need to say that. We need to be very clear that this is not RIGHT. For our sisters, our friends, our daughters, our sons. We need to stop saying shit like “An abused woman wouldn’t do …” Because unless and until (which I don’t wish) you’ve been abused, you really don’t know what you’ll do in that situation. You might have been the most emotionally healthy person in the world prior to meeting the abuser. And what you do, what you go along with, it doesn’t make sense — and wouldn’t have made sense to you yourself BEFORE you got into that relationship. But it can literally happen to ANYONE and it does. And you’re just not YOU anymore. You’re some irrational version of yourself that you don’t recognize.

            Jodi was traveling a long distance ANYWAY. That’s what Jodi did at her age then. Screw it, ask yourself this: why was SHE traveling to see Ryan? Why wasn’t Ryan traveling to see her? Why wasn’t he paying for her gas or helping her out financially, knowing that she was financially struggling? Because she had very low self esteem. That’s why. Gorgeous as Jodi was back then, the kind of sexy woman EVERY man wanted to bed, she didn’t see it; she didn’t feel it.

        • She doesn’t believe this was a domestic violence case. She is calling Jodi Arias a liar whether she admits it or not when JA said under oath this was an abuse case and that she killed him, so therefore Carol thinks JA committed perjury, and I have to ask why she is here on a JA support site. She is calling people like Alyce LaViolette a liar, and AL is adamant this was domestic abuse. So were the other defense witnesses.

          She believes in the totally idiotic idea there were intruders in the middle of the day, where they can be seen.

          I don’t have a lot of use for conspiracy crap. It

          • Right! I am calling Jodi Arias Innocent; and that she lied to Detective Flores at HIS insistence, and that she followed her ATTORNEY’S advice to claim domestic violence self-defense.
            Which as it turned out, was a losing strategy for Jodi.

          • And for your information, since no medical expert said how long Travis had been dead, I have no idea when he died. Not whether it was daytime or nighttime. I do not believe the so-called ‘intruder story’ but I do understand why she told that story…she was tired, scared, intimidated. And, yes she LIED.

    • Thanks BB !! Excellent..

      Amazing that Sky Hughes thinks she can tell her tail of cover up and be believed by so many! Over and over again people swallow all of the sanctimonious lies told by the group.

  37. Did we ever learn how and why Sky Hughes had Travis Alexander’s journals? I assume Travis’s journals were in his house when he died and that police took possession of them. But, in these Court Minutes of 06/18/2010, it states on Page 4:
    “It is ordered that after Sky Hughes deposition is complete, Sky Hughes shall turn over the victim’s journals to Detective Flores.”
    Were they “loaned” to her by the police for her deposition (?????) or had she had them since shortly after Travis’s death and if so, how and when did she get possession of them?

          • Just strikes me as a possibility, is all.

            Don’t know why she’d have had them.

            Weren’t THEY saying that Jodi had stolen some of Travis’ journals? Or was that one of the other morons? oops, mormons?

            Guess she might have even taken them on Jun 4.

            • I think Chris Hughes said something about the journals on that blog radio interview but I could be wrong. I don’t know if guys write about women (seductions, etc.) in their journals or not. In fact, I was under the impression that not many guys kept journals but I suppose it depends on the purpose of the journal. It also depends what was in the journal to know if he might have given to someone else for safe-keeping or whatever. Just seems odd to me. Not the first thing that seems odd in this case though.

              • another damn 404 error

                Mormons are encouraged to journal. Not sure what they’re supposed to journal about, though.

              • Well we know that he only wanted positive things written in Jodi’s journals so we can assume the same for him as he was good at lying to everyone about himself so he should have been an expert at lying to himself……..

            • Journee,
              I went right by your comment about Sky taking the journals on June 4. 😆 You could be right. She would look good in a mask, too.

            • In May didn’t Travis complain that his journals were stolen, didn’t he accuse Jodi – which naturally she denied?
              Everyone is always so quick to blame Jodi!! :shocked:

                • Perhaps is right. They will keep talking and squirming and soon the World will know. Personally, I can’t wait. I am so ready for Justice to be served. I know one day Jodi Arias will be a free woman again. She has nothing to be ashamed of. There are so many different ways this all could have happened. . .how ever it happened she was completely innocent in my eyes. Jodi deserves a Medal!

              • And also I believe your right, he did say his journals were missing. Might someone have been reading them without permission? uh oh

                • Hmmm, I dont remember that part where the bastard, ooops I meant Travis said his journals were missing. Now, lemme make that shocked emoticon, I’ve never tried before 😯

              • Now don’t forget the time Deanna showed up and Jodi was cooking cookies she could have grabbed his journal she was looking for something went upstairs then went to his office said she was there to see the dog hummmm the biggest think she said on HLN was I used my key to get in 🙄

                • How would we ever know. . .Everyone always Lying for the Lord!
                  Knowing what a wonderful story teller TA was Deanna would have had a albeit. . .Jodi did it. I swear no one will own their own crap will they. Everyone and everybody threw Jodi under the bus. It has been too easy for them.

    • You know the more we learn about the Hughes the more I question about how deep they are involved in this case and what they really may have done to any exculpatory evidence in this case that they were able to get their hands on….I don’t trust them and the Mesa PD should not have either and should have investigated them thoroughly….it is unusual for a grown man to leave his journals with others….really? isn’t that just strange and frankly I don’t buy it….one of the first things they do after TA is killed is go through his emails….really? that is strange….then they somehow have possession of his private writings….really? Way too many coincidences and I have said this before I DON’T BELIEVE IN COINCIDENCES… law enforcement there is no such thing as a coincidence……

    • Sky Hughes never turned those journals over, as far as I can figure out. They surely would have been mentioned somewhere if she had.

      The Sky’s excuse for her letter to Travis scolding him for not treating Jodi right was because Jodi fabricated it all, but it is contradicted by Travis’ angry response to Sky almost admitting she was right about his treatment of Jodi and calling himself a sort of ‘sociopath’.
      Had their scolding not been on target that would not have been his response!

      This had to be at least a part of Jodi’s decision to get out of Mesa and return to California. She had learned too much.

        • And certainly Sky was recounting TA’s history before Jodi ever came on the scene…..she wasn’t just talking about the way he treated Jodi she was also talking about the way he treated other women in the past and Deanna…….so did Jodi fabricated stuff up about women she didn’t even know….are you going to blame her for your rant about other women as well????…Sky, Sky, Sky………you can do better that that can’t you, now come on, make up something more plausible…if you can…..

  38. Respect one another’s point of view for sure, even try to understand, which I like everyone else, try to do.
    The best part of all, at THIS site we do have those like Jade and Justus who investigate, investigate and have investigated some more, bringing out some if not all the errors in the case.
    None of my points of view have gone without revisions due these investigators, and I thank them for so much, as I am sure Jodi must also.
    Always, there are the ones too numerous to name, and you all know who you are, who stay on track and keep us on track with so many, many facts; so many that I forget them at times, and I appreciate revisiting them.
    We may not solve the mysteries, but we will try.
    And eventually, maybe we will see some Justice for the innocent people and the guilty people in the case.

  39. When Journee wrote @ 2:28pm “She may have had them before he was killed,” suggesting that Sky Hughes may have had Travis’s journals BEFORE he was killed, and then Carol Handy wrote @ 3:58 pm: “In May didn’t Travis complain that his journals were stolen…,” it gave me an idea. 🙄 What if Sky Hughes or Chris Hughes had stolen Travis’s journals because they suspected him of something and wanted to go through his journals to see if they could prove or disprove something they thought about him? They may have found what they were looking for or not. But, once he was dead, they saw an opportunity to continue their search by going through his Gmail to get more information or to delete information (don’t know if this was possible) related to what they had found in the journals or just to continue their search for information about Travis (not Jodi as they stated). At least, this would provide an explanation why they would risk searching a dead person’s Gmail (not knowing if he was a murder victim or not at that point).

  40. Darn, another comment taking the “scenic route.”
    While I’m waiting, I have some questions for everyone but I’d especially like to hear from tonysam and johnm.

    When Jodi gets another trial, do you think her new lawyer(s) will present a self-defense case? Will an experienced lawyer be able to present a better self-defense argument? Or, should the lawyers(s) present a “provocation” defense or “temporary loss of control” type defense?

    • Jodi’s problem is/was her known willingness to plead to M2.
      So the only thing that would benefit Jodi, in her next trial, is NEW, REAL proJodi evidence, and superior lawyering. Self-defense all the way!

      • Thanks, John. It will be interesting how her case is presented since so many people *know* her case or think they know it. With HLN & haters speading lies, lies and more lies & the damage done by biased media, her jury will probably start convinced she’s guilty of 1st degree murder. How will they ever find an impartial jury that will give her a chance at a fair trial?

        • coldcase53,( we) Jodi need intervention. I use a lot of God and Lord and prayer talk, but I’m really not religious. Our experience of Jodi’s persecution needed to have juror 17 in it or we all would be unable to have confidence in Jodi’s future. If Jodi was on death row, she would certainly have a chance, but my faith would be diminished. Let’s face it, except for US here at JAII,this world is replete with some seriously unmoral people. Jodi would have a trial, but it could go south too. What we NEED, what Jodi NEEDS is real evidence, not circumstantial evidence, but something that can’t be interpreted ambiguously. If we can get that and a moral circuit judge to PUBLICALLY BLAST pickles and frog then we will have a jury.

    • CC53,

      Here’s how I see this issue. The biggest hurdle any defense attorney is going to have in any future trial is overcoming the issue of conflicting stories between what was told to Flores and her first trial. The problem with a self defense case where there are no witnesses is that the defendant has to be believed by the jury. I know people yelled at me the last time I said this but I will reiterate. As noticed in some of the motions posted further up this thread the defense at some stage the defense presented to the court of a notice of a self defense argument. AZ is sort of strange in that the prosecution has a requirement to disprove self defense beyond a reasonable doubt. This is different to other states where self-defense is an affirmative defense – that means the defense must prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. But here’s how my logic goes. The DT says self-defense. The present a notice to the court that they are going to claim self defense. The judge allows that defense (if that didn’t happen then every defendant would just say it was self defense – now state prove it wasn’t). Once you are past that hurdle through a proffer to the judge you get to the jury. So the defendant (or some witnesses) say it was self-defense. If there are no other witnesses the defendant has to get up on the stand and say it was self defense. Now if the state can make the jury question the defendant’s credibility, I believe, that’s the end of the game. I don’t care what other requirement there may or may not be – if the jury questions the credibility of the person raising the self defense claim, in reality the game is over.

      Now, let’s assume we leave the defendant (in this case Jodi) out of the picture – i.e. she doesn’t testify at all. What can a DT do? Well, here’s what I believe they can do:

      1. They can use the forensic evidence to show what the situation there was – basically a fight, and the way the fight unfolded.

      2. They can make the same argument that KN made in his closing (and only his closing unfortunately) that if this was M1 the time and activities between Jodi’s arrival and the supposed time of demise just don’t add up to M1.

      3. This time the defense can bring up all of the state’s perjury in the first trial and throw their credibility for a loop.

      4. They can, and should bring in all the stuff about TA’s behavior to show that he in fact had a temperament that could lead to some sort of violence. Couple this with the evidence of abuse and attempts to control, and you have the makings of an explosive situation – one way or another.

      5. They should be able to show that at some stage, in cases like this, one of two things inevitably happen – either the abusive person kills the abused or the abused person, for reasons that are beyond my pay grade to understand (and the experts can enunciate that) finally says enough is enough and tries to protect themselves and now the abuser ends up at the wrong end of the stick.

      There may be more but you get the general drift. But what you do is show that firstly this wasn’t M1, secondly that anything and everything the state says is tainted because of a complete lack of credibility, and nefarious acts on the part of their personnel. Lastly you knit all of the other circumstances together to show that it doesn’t matter what the defendant says – just look at the evidence that is not based on anything she has to say.

      Then just go for the sudden quarrel heat of passion argument. I know that some would say – well she’s going to have to cop to something she didn’t do. My answer is well when you’re caught between the devil and the deep blue sea, you have to make a choice. In this case the deep blue sea is one where you can see the shore on the other side – just go for it.

      Look she’s already spent almost 7 years in jail. Plus by the time the appeals are done and a new trial is done, its probably going to be a few more years. AZ treats manslaughter with SQHP as a class 2 felony. That means the minimum sentence with no priors is 7 years, the presumptive 10 years and the maximum is 25 years. I may be wrong (and I’m sure someone will correct me, but I think an SQHP case is qualified for good time earned credit of up to 15%). Either way she’s out of there almost immediately given the time already served.

      If state manages to get an M2 verdict she’s looking at a minimum of 10 years and a presumptive of 16 years for a first offense. So given the possible earned credit time she could have to serve a minimum of 8.5 years (which will probably be done my any retrial) or 13.6 years which would mean a few years.

      Now what’s the down side – well she may have to settle for a sentence for something she didn’t do. Well if she manages to get a manslaughter she walks immediately. If she gets M2 she could walk immediately or be out in a few years. Of course as a convicted felon there are somethings she can’t do: she can’t vote, she can’t own a firearm, she can’t serve on a jury, she can’t consort with other felons, she probably has a hard time finding a good job. Well other than voting and owning a gun, in all reality the rest of that is a given regardless of what happens.

      So me, I would advise her to skip the self defense argument, fight this on a manslaughter basis. Under the current circumstances that would probably be the best self-defense.

      But that’s my opinion, and I’m just Monday morning quarterbacking. So what do I know.

        • Thanks, Al. Well thought out, rational approach as always. I worry about the self defense argument, too. Although we know it isn’t true, Jodi has been labelled a liar over & over by Martinez, HLN hacks and the hater ghouls. That’s going to be a difficult reputation to shake. Of all the states for this to happen, Arizona is one of the worst due to all the corruption and I expect the average IQ of the citizens rates near the bottom, too. Proof = Sheriff Joe. I did like some of your scenarios though (MS, 2nd Degree) with an immediate or short release time. Something to hope for.

  41. Someone may be able to help me here with a question…..did someone once state somewhere that TA was dating a woman from Show Low, AZ?? Does anyone know if this is true? And if so do we know her name and anything about her? Thanks for your help……..I’m just going back over some details on some things…

    • Confession is good for the soul….maybe a few people will unburden their souls regarding this case and let the truth come out and the chips fall where they may….that’s all we want….the full truth….no lies, deceit, tricks, hiding evidence, destroying evidence, tampering with evidence, no word games, no smoke and mirrors, etc….just the plain old truth…then everyone can live with themselves and justice will be served….are you listening JM, DF, MM, KH, and others involved… you think you can hide the truth from God? You will answer, for God is not mocked, whatsoever a man soweth that shall he reap…..

      • Listen to the regret in that prosecutor’s voice…it speaks volumes and tells me that if he had to do it all over again he would have sought justice rather than a win….a man’s life was ruined bc of the decisions he made……..

    • If we walk together, little children
      We won’t ever have to worry
      Through this world of trouble
      We’ve got to love one another
      Let us take our fellow man by the hand
      Try to help him to understand
      We can all be together
      For ever and ever
      When we make it to the promised land

    • Thinking R Love – and all, but especially R – would especially like the first verse

      I want to say to my sisters and my brothers
      Keep the faith
      When the storm flies and the wind blows
      Go on at a steady pace
      When the battle is fought and the victory’s won
      We can all shout together, we have overcome
      We’ll talk to the Father and the Son
      When we make it to the promised land

      ~~~~And what the heck, let’s sing that chorus again!~~~~

      If we walk together, little children
      We won’t ever have to worry
      Through this world of trouble
      We’ve got to love one another
      Let us take our fellow man by the hand
      Try to help him to understand
      We can all be together
      For ever and ever
      When we make it to the promised land

  42. I have a question. In one email Travis wrote to another woman on 2/22/2007 (while officially dating Jodi), he claimed he had been stabbed in the chest and had been in 7 car accidents (among other of his “claims to fame”). He also said he was the only man in his family never to have gone to jail. Wait, I thought he was a good clean living Mormon boy?

    • well, he’s the only male in his family who never went to jail – just how good a mormon boy do you want him to be?

      Actually, StillOutThere – I didn’t get to respond to your post the other night about the Appellate Fund Movie. By the time I sat down to reply it was on the ‘old’ page. I seem to have that problem often (ha, watch it happen again with his post).

      Anyway, I wanted to thank you for your kind words. The text was actually composed as a fundraising letter, for people here who wanted to send it to whomever they thought might help. Eh, initially it was composed for a particular charitable organization, but because of the way it was sent and signed, we’ll never know whether they donated or not.

      But yes, I thought it would have a broader appeal if it focused on protecting OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM. There are things that happened in this trial that need to be addressed by SCOTUS – social media was used to intimidate witnesses (and dammit I want the instigators prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, lol) – that if I pointed out everything that was wrong with the TRIAL, people who were otherwise neutral might take an interest.

      So thank you for recognizing my intent.

      • I had to snicker at your first sentence there Journee. Real good Mormons indeed, and all the males go to jail. I don’t even know anyone who has spent time in jail. If I do, they’re certainly not bragging about it. And yet, in my social circles, we have sex outside of marriage, so apparently, we’re sluts and whores — the females. Well, that’s just like the point I was making earlier today about the Hughes. They were also real good Mormons who thought it was potentially “incorrect” for Travis to use Jodi as a “booty call” in their home — the same home that their children lived in — but they didn’t have a problem with him having sex in their home, even if they were booty calls. Their problem was with him using Jodi as a booty call.

        I’m glad you saw my remarks about the video. I thought they got lost in the volume of posts here. It was really amazing and you guys did an amazing job. I assume you wrote all the text and it was incredible. I was very impressed and it did bring me to tears, so BRAVO!

      • ha – Justus, never heard that phrase before, did you make that up yourself?

        yah, I never heard of Steven going to jail before either
        wouldn’t be surprised, tho – to quote someone we know and love: ‘there’s something not quite right about that boy’

        as Cindy pointed out while we were waiting for verdict, Steven seems to have some rage issues of his own

        • Journee, I wish I could take credit for that phrase, but alas, no. I heard it many years ago but I have thought about it a great deal recently while watching Napoleonic Martinez at work.

      • Um that’s how I took it. Travis said in an email that he was THE only male in his family who NEVER went to jail. So …. um … wait, did Steven have a sex change? Was he originally Stevie (as in Stevie Nicks)? If not, then yes, Steven went to jail too. For what, I don’t know. But Travis was 100% truthful, wasn’t he? The only liar in the case was well, Jodi. So I’ll let you form your own conclusions as you wish. Travis said it. It must be Gospel Truth.

      • Steven, being the youngest male in the family (nine years younger than Travis), was only twenty when Travis wrote that email. Maybe T just wasn’t yet counting Steven among the adult males in his family. (I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.)

        • OMG so you’re saying Travis lied about his young brother? But wait, Travis lied? I’ll ask that again. Travis lied? Really?

  43. Dr. Geffner testified that Travis’s *preferred* form of sexual contact was anal, based on everything he read (all his emails, texts, g-chats, etc.). He did engage in oral and some vaginal sex too, but anal was his preferred “method.” Take that and re-read what he said to Jodi in this letter about not wanting to be labeled a “fag.” This guy had MAJOR sexual issues in my non-expert opinion, even more than I realized before.

    Also, it’s interesting to hear how Lisa felt about Jodi. All we ever previously heard was that Jodi was obsessed with Travis. But, it seems Travis was equally as obsessed with Jodi — to the point of non-stop talking about her when he’s with Lisa (remember, Lisa — according to Travis’s journals, is the “one who got away) — according to emails Lisa wrote to him. Lisa was telling him she’s “sick” of him talking about Jodi (along with his repeated unwanted and unwelcomed sexual advances towards her — Lisa) and “good luck with her” (Jodi). Lisa also told him that she loved him, but wasn’t ready to get married, and definitely wasn’t ready for his intense sexual advances towards her. She’d talked to her bishop and her parents and essentially decided that they had no future. She was a strong woman with good boundaries, although she was so much younger than him. But she almost crossed a line with him based on his pushing her, even long after she’d identified that he wasn’t “the one” for her. Damn, this guy was persuasive.

    • I just threw up in my mouth before I finished that. According to him if he’d attended my court hearings, I’m not a “real” victim of domestic violence either. So, like, then PLEASE don’t support me. Don’t launch any balloons for me, you piece of crap. They don’t do me any good anyway. Ugh, people like this really annoy me. Sorry.

        • They’re under the impression Travis went to heaven or maybe Kolob. How long before the Church of Travis is established? Chris & Sky Hughes will start a fundraiser on April 14, 2015. As least there were a couple of women hassling the commenters over & over about the damage balloons do to marine life.
          I see Paul Sanders, a juror on the Marissa DeVault trial, has written a book which he’s plugging besides his article. He’s kind of a Chris Hughes-lite character who believes he’s on a God inspired mission to fleece the flock of Travis worshippers. No morals and less talent.

    • That is as laughable as CH’s candle light vigil outside the court house for TA after the jury came back. It was reported a half dozen people attended. I was trying to think #1 CH #2 SH #3Cane Lady. . .oh well. . .couldn’t think of the other 3.

      • hmmm well there would be the spangled jeans lady that JSS threw out of court, and that 13th juror dude who hangs out with spangled jeans and cane lady… I’m betting on unimportant, insignificant original #17 would round out the half dozen

    • I thought of TA the environmentalist when I saw what they are planning. One of the most offensive things that you can do to the creatures and environment is letting off all that trash into the air.

  44. Journee,

    Thanks for the info on when that 2008 image/clone was turned over to the defense. I thought that’s what I had heard, but wasn’t sure. So once again Flores was lying through his teeth when he said that all computer stuff had been turned over.

    Now for a follow up for anyone who might know.

    We know stuff was wiped off the disc in 2009. Did anyone ever talk about the differences between the two versions – the 2008 clone/image and the 2009 version?

    Just trying to figure out what the heck was on that 2008 version that they were trying to secret away.

  45. Good Sunday morning!!! Well I’m lost on the computer stuff. Sorry…

    I have to tell you Al I thought about you yesterday. When I got home yesterday I notices I had left a cupboard door open!! I never do that. I just started laughing….. and thought of you.

  46. My wife was on a baking mission yesterday because she had stuff in the fridge and pantry that needed to be used up.

    She made a 3 layer chocolate walnut cake with a chocolate cream filling and a dark chocolate ganache icing. I am now having a slice (or maybe a slab) for breakfast.

    Life is goooooooood.

  47. In comparing these two letters the eyes have it…for me…I noticed the capital i is consistent throughout BOTH handwriting samples. Also the angle of the top of the capital i and capital t is consistent, left to right angles (they go at a slant from lower on left to upward on right)
    AND WOW…that letter to Jodi is, speaking of eyes, EYE OPENING to say the least. I wonder if there is a victim of TA’s pedophilia out there somewhere who might verify the context of that letter’s validity. All I can say is OMFG! In SO many ways this letter PROVES Jodi’s testimony was TRUTH! JM and the media REPEATEDLY called her a liar! On the stand, UNDER OATH, Jodi DID NOT LIE AT ALL.

  48. Thanks for that Al…just when I have FINALLY started my exercise and healthy diet YOU JUST HAD TO MENTION CHOCOLATE CAKE! 😯 that is THE thing that throws me off the wagon. I will have to try and pretend that I didn’t read your comment. 😉 Enjoy an extra piece for me.

      • I got it. Though chocolate cake is the thing ain’t it. I sort of turn into the Hulk around chocolate cake:

        “Yum, chocolate cake good. Al want more”

        • Last tempting comment:

          On my bucket list is the ability to get a chocolate cake and only eat the edges, you know where the icing is on the top and the sides. That way you minimize the adulterative impact of too much cake and not enough icing.

    • You got it, though I have to do it quick and remove all evidence before my wife comes down or all hell will break loose.

      Gonna happen in any case, but later on it gets easier to look dumb as all get up and so survive.

  49. I have a question for the legal beagles around here.

    It seems like the defense has the right, or ability, to ask the trial court to throw out a verdict, or reduce it based on insufficiency of evidence, or other factors such as prosecutorial misconduct etc, even at this stage. I know KN has done this repeatedly, but a lot of other stuff became evident after the retrial.

    Does the DT need to file yet another motion about this issue – even though JSS isn’t going to do squat, just to preserve the record?

    • Al, all the new exposure of evidence during the sentencing phase has me confused about that as well. You may have to repost your comment when a new page goes up. This page it SO loaded with commens your question may get lost by the way side.

    • Yup.

      When you look at all the new emails, and Secret Witness #1’s testimony, and the computer snafu, and put it all together, in its totality, it suddenly shows that the whole state’s case was based on suppositions, and lies and misdirection.

      When you go back and look at it all as one – the first guilt phase trial and the retrial you suddenly realize that there is stuff that came out that would have, or could have, or should have made a difference to the original trial.

      Now, normally that becomes an appellate issue. But in reality the case isn’t over till the sentencing is done – so this case is completely open and still in JSS’s hands. That’s why the appeals court wouldn’t accept jurisdiction on KNs appeal for the Chronis hearing and the Horn/Flores perjury. Since the case is still open at this stage does that mean KN still has a chance to make a motion to JSS, and if so do all the various motions he’s already made count or does he need to make another one?


    10) You’re innocent until proven guilty in America.
    9) Travis Alexander, it is one thing to love kids, but it’s another to LOVE kids.
    8) We need another reenactment of Travis Alexander’s murder on HLN about as much as Lara Flynn
    Boyle needs more work done on her face.
    7) Wouldn’t Travis’s family rather have Jodi go to prison right away than to spend years and years on
    death row awaiting appeals?
    6) And now on HLN we bring you an opposing viewpoint from someone who knows and believes Jodi
    5) Good evening. I’m Nancy Grace. And I’d like to apologize tonight to anyone I might have offended.
    4) Disagreeing with a verdict doesn’t give you carte blanche to harass, intimidate and threaten the
    juror(s) whose decision resulted in said verdict.
    3) Is it just me or does Juan Martinez sound like Kermit The Frog?
    2) “Jodi Arias Is Innocent” is a great website.
    1) The verdict was right.

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