Retrial Video Replay – Day 8

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Click the following links to read the original post & comments from retrial day 8 — Page 1 / Page 2

Retrial Video Replay – Day 8:

Part 1/4 (Discussion on Motion to dismiss + Defense Witness Dr Miccio-Fonseca testimony):

Part 2/4 (Dr Miccio-Fonseca testimony):

Part 3/4 (Dr Miccio-Fonseca testimony):

Part 4/4 (Dr Miccio-Fonseca testimony):

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The JAA Appellate Fund Matching-gift Campaign ended on August 1st. Thanks to a generous matching donor and all the supporters that donated to the fund, the total currently stands at:


Thank you for your support!

Let’s now be sure to keep the momentum growing so the fund total can push through $100,000, and even closer towards raising sufficient funds to help cover the legal fees associated with appealing Jodi’s wrongful conviction.

All donations via go directly to the fund. It is also the ONLY website authorized to collect donations.

In addition, please DO NOT, under any circumstances, donate through any other website or Facebook page/group claiming to be “official” and/or acting with Jodi’s approval or authorization. The same applies to any “Jodi Membership Clubs”, groups or fake Trust funds that have been set up. These sites are bogus – they continue to steal money from Jodi – and they should be actively avoided. If you are aware of any such sites, please help Jodi by clicking here and reporting them.


we are team jodi - and we will be victorious. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

If you missed any of our previous posts, click on the links below:

“ALEXSCAMMERS, this one’s for you… my compliments” – (by Jade)
“Monumental Incompetence” (a post by Jade)

Today’s BS Hearing, 6/22

The Mysterious Stench of Decomp & BS
My Reply To Kirk Nurmi’s BS

Survivor Day – June 4th – Celebrate The Day!

Sky Hughes – Email Exchange r.e. TA’s Pedo Antics (June 2010)
My current thoughts, forward plans & other stuff

The JAA Appellate Fund $25,000 Matching-gift Campaign

Jennifer Willmott – interviews w/Michael Kiefer & ABC15
Justice For Jodi + Post-sentencing Videos
Chris Hughes – Liar & Pedo-Hugger (trial testimony from 2013)
TA’s Pedophile Letter Handwriting Comparison – (Part 2)
TA’s Pedophile Letter to Jodi Arias – (Part 1)
Juror #17 – We Thank You
Jodi Arias Victorious Verdict Day: Video Coverage
The Jodi Arias Verdict: My Thoughts On “Pedo-Huggers United”

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

If you’d like to send Jodi a letter or postcard, click here for the current address details & guidelines.

To access every court document & motion relating to this trial, click here or click the Court Docs link from the main menu at the top of the page.

In the meantime…


Never question it.

Never doubt it.

Prepare for it.

Leave your thoughts & comments below…

Team Jodi #WINNING <<<

Click the banner below to read Jade’s post – “Justice Denied: Why The Jurors Got It Wrong & How The Facts Decimate The State’s Case Against Jodi Arias.”:

Read - Justice Denied - Why The Jurors Got It Wrong & How The Facts Decimate The State's Case Against Jodi Arias
Click the links below to read Jade’s previous posts in the series:

The Photos Tell The Story (by Jade)
Stephens, Sandbagging & The Six Month Crap-Fest

Corruption, State-Sponsored Murder & Twelve Angry Men

The Immaculate Deception: Exposed

Michael Melendez – Perjury Exposed
The Presumption of Innocence
The Great Mormon Porn Swindle


        • Pickles was extra sour on Day 8 and backed her little buddy up sustaining almost every one of his stupid objections. A unbiased judge would have been royally peed off learning about this computer evidence finally coming to light in her courtroom. Like Nurmi stated, either it was at the very least gross incompetence regarding handling the evidence, or Jodi’s defence was incompetent, but of course, they are innocent of his slanderous accusations.


    • Just not sure I am able to stomach listening to the FROG’s voice or listen to those blatant lies from his giant mouth of lies today. Maybe tomorrow…… Once was One Time Too Many!!!!! 😯

      • RL, I did some checking for the testimony on the dating sites found on TA’s computer. State Detective’s 9-page report (Exhibit 932) of dating sites included one (? Swing) which is listed both with the porn sites and with the dating sites, and Adult Friend Finder which is described on its site as a finder for one-night stands for sex, according to the exhibit. These were installed long before Spybot was iinstalled and was in a different part of the computer. He was accessing these sites the same time that he was dating Lisa and Jodi in Jan 2008. YUCK!!

        • This travis really had alot of real issues! Its a wounder how he didnt spread his STD/AIDS to lisa, Jodi and all the others!!! There is old saying .. U die the way U live ! I would of broke his ass too if I’d caught him sniffing around my Granddaughter. He sounds like the type that would use the mom to get to the young daughter! I did read where a father confronted travis to stay away from and stop, never call his 9 yr old daughter again!!!! This was a father from the church!! I believe this info came from SW site. Its been awhile ago.

          • Travis had e-mailed the 9 year-old girl. The State claimed it was because he was working for PPL, big companies have this mass sending spam e-mails policy or something.

          • He testified at the end of the state’s rebuttal after Dr. F. testified about it as a data point. This man who didn’t know TA, received an email that was TA’s mass ppl work crap, but what bothered this man was the fact that it came addressed to his nine-year old daughter. He sent an email to TA asking him how he got her name and to cease bothering them.

    • Yes, I also wonder if T-Dogg’s name was (and maybe still is) on the Ashley site. …But, if his name is/was on that dumped information from the site, then he would surely have only been a FREE (non-paying) member because he was too cheap with his own money. …Unless he secretly borrowed one of his many girlfriend’s credit cards, not the card, just the #) hahaha. …(IMHO)…
      …And, if they find out who actually got & dumped all that sex seeking info from that site (that Jeff Ashton said, it is NOT ILLEGAL), then they had better check to see if Janeen Demarte’s misplaced laptop computer is also there in the stash of stuff with the crooks!!! …Maybe grand kids from the Watergate bunch of crooks. …Maybe they might also fine Travis’ missing holster for his own personal 25 caliber semi, & his own non Hollowpoint ammo. … …((I am only being hypothetical))….

      • JD misplaced laptop and bm, I mean jm breaking travis camera is proof that they tampered/hidden evidence! Frog broke that camera cuz he knew that camera did NOT have the date/time option on it. THEREFORE PROOF THAT HE TAMPERED!!! BAD BAD FROG!! AND his GOON Jean Demarte! The list just goes on and on !!! I cant wait for every last one of these creeps that was involved for their Judgements Day!!!

            • Dwight, there are two cameras – the one dropped in the courtroom was TA’s and the video camera that was “completely smashed” in Neumeister’s terms was a video camera that was part of the seizure of Jodi’s items. There was no evidence from the video camera except for Neumeister’s testimony of the smashing of it as part of the prosecutorial misconduct of handling of evidence. The camera dropped in court was never tested to see if it worked. The only testimony was that the button for taking pictures was loose. I can’t remember if that was the pre or post dropping by malware kermit.

                • Melendez couldn’t get the door of the camera open so he asked Flores if it would be okay if he damaged it in attempts to get it open, or so the story goes. Neumeister’s description of it being totally destroyed makes on think there was more than just trying to open a sticky door. This was the same time that he testified that the sim cards from all the phones were all missing.

            • According to the Flores report of 08/28/2008, 14:00:53, approved by D. McBride on 09/03/2008, 09:15:21:

              In the report where Flores interviewed Zachary Billings on 6/10/08, 0350 (the night the body was found):

              “The last time he {Zachary Billings] remembered seeing Travis was Thursday [June 5th, 2008] morning. Zach said he was leaving the house about 1130 hours that morning …”

              This is when Travis was at least 12 hours dead according to the state’s case/theory which claims he was dead when the inconclusive, forged, “leg” picture was taken on June 4th, 2008, 5-6PM.

              I know people will say Billings might have confused the day/date, but its just as likely he didn’t and Travis was alive and well 12 hours after the alleged attack occurred.

              I wonder if they even DNA typed the body to make sure it was Travis and not some cadaver from the desert that looked enough like him to pass for him.

      • WLOPEZ, it was quite convenient of DeMorte’s laptop being stolen when it did… Gee, I wonder how State got hold of classified info that was on DeMorte’s laptop…. Just sayin’ .

  1. Additional “24 Questions to Ponder” responses, further demonstrating the inner workings of “confirmation bias” (

    …continued from

    16. If he still had enough energy to travel down the hallway to the bedroom, why didn’t he just use that energy to stop all the stabbing she was supposedly doing during that time period?

    Answer: He was being ATTACKED by Jodi, the wounds on his hands and arms shows that he did defend himself.

    17. Why did Travis have only five relatively minor wounds on his hands, only one on his dominant hand, and none on his lower arms if he was supposedly defending himself against a knife attack for more than a minute and perhaps up to two minutes?

    Answer: Jodi’s intent was to stab him where it could do the most fatal damage, hence the amount of wounds to his back. It is more than likely that he crawled on all fours down the hallway to the bedroom, where he collapsed. It was there, with very little struggle that she slit his throat.

    18. Upon leaving why wouldn’t she have noticed the license plate was upside down while supposedly screwing in those little fasteners? Wouldn’t it be more possible for someone to notice her squatting behind the car thus drawing even greater attention to her presence? Certainly more likely than anyone noticing and remembering a license plate.

    Answer: She placed the plate on long before she got to Arizona, more than likely in the desert to avoid the red light cameras.

    19. Why does she make cell phone calls in Arizona heading north from Kingman toward Hoover Dam, thus negating the supposed reason for borrowing the gas cans and turning off her cell phone?

    Answer: This negates nothing…. Kingman to Nevada border is about 30 minutes. She was at the dam when she began calling Travis to tell him that she would not make it to his house, thus covering her tracks. There is a sign at Hoover dam that tells you that you are entering Nevada, but you dont for another 10 miles.

    20. Why does she fill the cans in Salt Lake City if their purpose was to hide her trip into Arizona? Was she also hiding her trip from her so-called alibi home to Yreka?

    Answer: Having gas cans is not evidence of a crime, it shows evidence of hiding ones presence in the state. Jodi’s intent was to continue with a story that she was in Utah during the time of the killing, that is why the elaborate cover up and phone messages and emails, as well as traveling to Utah and acting as if everything was normal. I believe the flaw in her plan was she stayed too long in AZ. She had to claim she got “lost” on her way to Utah, which didn’t work.

    21. How is it Jodi supposedly came up with the most idiotic murder plan in history (a twelve-year-old could have devised a more intelligent plan than that) but was also apparently able, with all her “caginess”, to fool three experts with more than 90 years of collective experience in their respective fields?

    Answer: Jodi’s plan was very simple: Deny, Deny, Deny. That is what she did, even up until the time that she was interviewed by police. She is not a criminal mastermind, and like most, underestimated the power of a police investigation. DNA, Blood Splatter, Medical Examiners, all those things we see on Television that she thought she could talk herself out of this by saying things like… “of course my fingerprints are all over her house, I was always over there…” and of course when faced with her OWN pictures… “That’s not me!” Jodi, like most idiot’s thought she could get away with murder and didn’t.

    22. If Jodi was planning to lie about the whole thing under oath on the stand, why during those 4+ years didn’t she come up with a reasonable scenario about what happened during those final moments? (I came up with one within about ten minutes of viewing the crime scene. And I wasn’t even there.)

    Answer: Jodi was cut off from information from the police after she was arrested, as she tried to gain information during the initial investigation. She called Detective Flores several times to garner whatever information she could to mold her story. When she finally abandoned her ninja story, she was faced with telling her version of the murder, based upon an assertion by Flores that the shot came first. She created her self defense story based on the shot coming first, but when the detective and prosecutor were corrected by the medical examiner that the shot came last, she couldn’t change her story again and thus showing her that she could not out smart the investigation that had her dead to rights.

    • Okay, here goes again:

      16. He was being attacked by Jodi?? Oh, goodness, I didn’t realize you were an eyewitness….did you come forth and testify to that?? If not, then your view is just another possibility of what happened and in a court of law if there are reasonable alternatives as to what happened then the benefit of the doubt is to go to the defendant…well in this case that didn’t happen and reasonable doubt went out the window in favor of the witch hunt by the press, public, the prosecution, the judge, and the jury…IMHO. He had very few injuries on his hands, and yes I agree that he probably tried to grab the knife from Jodi who was defending herself from HIS ATTACK…this was hand to hand combat and UNLESS YOU WERE THERE AS AN EYE WITNESS then don’t tell me you know that Jodi was attacking him down the hallway..He was attacking her according to her testimony and he had a pattern of abuse with her !!! And she defended herself and this is not a crime. He was chasing her down the hallway bc he was pissed that she had shot him and he was going to get her and probably kill her if she hadn’t defended herself. So you see unless you were there you can NOT say that she was attacking him. The evidence at the scene showed a life and death struggle between two people. Who was the aggressor? Just bc Jodi survived does NOT make her the aggressor and attacker!! Got it??

      17. The world according to the gallactically STUPID !! The back wounds were no where near life threatening, moron…they were shallow slashing wounds that from the evidence shows they were more likely made from the front face to face as she was trying to get TA OFF OF HER so she could get away! The most fatal stab wound in addition to the throat wound was the stab wound to the chest, not the back, you idiot !! It is more than likely he crawled on all fours down the hallway????? REALLY?? HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW??? And since Jodi is this maniac killer I guess she just decided to let him crawl all the way down the hall and do nothing and just watched him do that, right? Then she slit his throat. Right?? Your conjecture and speculation amounts to a pile of dog poo..I’d recommend you read the Richard Speights Essay Innocence: An argument for Jodi Arias but it’s probably too complicated for you to understand.

      18. Again, your speculation is showing…Let me see for the hundred of miles of open highway that Jodi is driving where there are NO RED LIGHT CAMERAS Jodi as smart as she is decides to put the plate on upside down despite probably knowing like most people with a functioning brain that the highway patrol roam the highways and would definitely pull her over for an upside down plate just as she was later on..(if I am not mistaken.) And according to your estimation I guess Jodi was planning on speeding and possibly getting caught by these red light cameras (which by the way are only within the city limits of certain cities and only in certain areas within those cities in the phoenix metropolitan area ….I lived near that area for over 25 years )..pretty smart of her, don’t ya think?? She wants to avoid attention but according to you, Einstein, she better darn well do something to avoid being caught by those darn red light cameras. Right !! And I also guess you think that the red light camera company is too stupid to be able to take a photo of an upside down plate and turn it around and read it???? Am I getting all this right??? Or did I completely misunderstand your stupid comments.

      19. OMG !! For real?? Okay, Jodi makes the most inept plan of all time to kill TA and part of her plan is not to use her cell phone in AZ (not simply that she ran out of battery) so the FIRST THING she does the second she thinks she is over the border is to pull out the cell phone and make a call. Because afterall the tower it is going to ping off of won’t give her positioning away, would it? Nah….Let’s see if she called 10 miles before the border her call would ping off the nearest cell tower and her position would be located in a vicinity around that tower by however many miles. Okay. So she calls 10 miles down the road instead let’s say, then that call would ping off the nearest cell tower and her position would be located in a vicinity around that tower by however many miles. And a side note here : it could be the same damn tower for all I know !!!! Either way, her position as being at or near the border of AZ and Nevada would be known. SO WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR POINT???? That is really not a stealth plan now is it???

      20. Now I almost think you made sense in your first statement here until I read the second part. The first part is so true that HAVING GAS CANS IS NOT EVIDENCE OF A CRIME !!! MAYBE YOU COULD PASS THAT ALONG TO LITTLE JUANITA !!! LOL!!!! Okay, so in your estimation if you are smart enough to carry gas cans through a long desert ride you are just hiding your presence in that state?? Wow, a lot of people I guess are trying to hide their presence?? You’ve got to stop this…I can hardly stop laughing at this point. How about the truth..that she took the gas cans as a safety precaution against running out of gas in the middle of nowhere as she and Darryl did frequently..Is the truth too much for you to handle?? Her plan to go to Utah was in place long before she was persuaded to come to Mesa by none other than TA himself. And yes after TA was killed she was petrified and wanted to make everything appear normal. That’s why it’s called a coverup…get it? The flaw in her plan was staying too long in AZ?? LOL!!! Her mistake was being persuaded to go there in the first place by TA, that was her mistake. And BTW, he was waiting up for her arrival….Hmmm, doesn’t sound like an uninvited guest to me, but that’s another topic. A 6th grader could come up with a more credible plan that this supposed plan that the state put forth in their case.

      21. I think you are denying, denying, denying….the experts I believe that the questioner was referring to was NOT the IDIOT DETECTIVE CLOUSEAU OR THE LITTLE EMPEROR NAPOLEON OR DR. SPECULATOR/EQUIVOCATOR….but the psychiatrist/psychologists that examined Jodi and concluded that she did indeed suffer abuse, etc. (NOTE: Questioner, please correct me if I am wrong on my assumption here) And yes like most people that find themselves in trouble in a police station interview after basically asking for an attorney in so many words which was ignored, people do stupid things like lie to police. Yes, police make a regular habit out of lying to the people they are interrogating in order to make them believe things that aren’t so in order to illicit information from them and when the person being interrogated still doesn’t give them the answers they want to hear they start feeding them information and giving them information and then question them endlessly until they get what they want. Just ask Debra Milke or all the other innocents in prison or on death row. Number one rule if you are brought in for questioning in a police station….KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT AND GET AN ATTORNEY…

      22. UM, I THINK YOU MEANT WHEN THE MEDICAL EXAMINER AND DETECTIVE WERE CORRECTED BY THE PROSECUTOR TO GET THEIR STORIES STRAIGHT TO SAY THE SHOT CAME LAST….IMHO….and why the hell would Jodi ever want to change her story from the shot can first to the shot came last, hello???? The prosecution changed their story after years of claiming that the shot came first ONLY AFTER JODI CHANGED HER DEFENSE TO SELF DEFENSE !!! By claiming that the shot came last they took Jodi’s self defense claim away from her, you idiot, so why would she ever want to agree with that? Do we have a brain??? I have written extensively on the medical examiners equivocations/speculations on the stand with regard to the issue of whether or not the bullet penetrated the brain, etc. So go read it..It will be front and center in the appeals !! IMHO. And the investigation had her “dead to rights?” Really? You mean the same investigation that woke up the computer at the crime scene and destroyed potential exculpatory evidence? You mean the investigation that never installed a write blocker on the computer to protect the evidence? You mean the investigation that about a year later did the same damn thing and then tried to blame the then defense team for deleting exculpatory evidence? You mean the investigation that said over and over and over that there was no porn on TA’s computer when there was so much porn on it that it wasn’t just the “elephant in the room” but it was the “AIRCRAFT CARRIER IN THE ROOM !!” You mean the investigation that threatened witnesses if they dared showed up and testified? You mean the investigation that….I could go on….you mean THAT INVESTIGATION !! Laughing !!!

      NUFF SAID !

      ALL IMHO….

      • I love your answer #16 above BB, to all those Jodi haters who say that Jodi had to be the aggressor & premeditated the entire hand to hand battle because she sustained almost no injuries & the much more powerful Travis is dead.
        …Reasonable doubt in this country goes to the accused defendant, not always to the dead person.
        …I suggest this explanation & It is written from Biblical times: David defeated Goliath ((but I suggest that suppose there were NO WITNESSES))? …No opposing armies, just a small shepherd boy and a giant of a man fully armed who threatened David to the certain death of David.
        …And David ran, but there was no where to go to hide & he certainly could not outrun the giant. …And certainly could not outrun the javelin or spear of Goliath. …Then ((in my illustration)) supposed the next day the opposing armies came & saw the evidence of a small boy David, holding the severed head or Goliath??? ….Remember: David had no sword or knife, but he now had Goliath’s sword & head.
        …Then the Philistines (in this scenario), protested that David should be put to death for killing their “Gentle Goliath Giant”. ….
        …I say that all those who hate Jodi Ann Arias for anything other than her own self defense, be forever labeled as “THE PHILISTINES OF ARIZONA” and all of us who support Jodi, cry out to the world: hold the head or “Goliath” higher an show the world what is a “pro-active-self -defense”. …The mighty Travis was the mighty Goliath. ….(((Arias is forever my David)))… (All in my humble opinion of course).

          • Yeah, these people would have presumed David was the aggressor and that he premeditated a battle with Goliath using a sling shot. After all, David didn’t have any wounds, he didn’t run away and he won the fight. Case closed! Hang him high!

            • And maybe it goes without saying, but I believe T.A was intent upon strangling Jodi, so that would factor into their positions in the struggle, and would leave T.A. less freedom to maneuver because he did not want his hands to be just anywhere___ he wanted his hands on her neck so he could choke her.
              He DID choke her before, so she had every reason to fear he would choke her to death.

              • Amy, I don’t know if you’ve read the following but it is a great eye-opener to what happened and how those flesh wounds occurred on TA’s back:


                Whoever hasn’t read this essay, please take the time to. It’ll be worth your time. It’s well known that TA’s body and wounds tells the truth about what happened. It points out that almost all (except 2 or 3) knife wounds were made by Jodi while defending herself.

                • Hi Pandora. Yes, I read that essay; it is excellent.
                  And the author is drawing from actual experience.
                  And he makes it clear that real life or death struggles often appear very opposite of the sanitized, ‘neat’, even aesthetically ‘pleasing’ versions in the movies.
                  I think too much of the public nowadays believe television and movies more than they accept the much greater complexity of real life.

                • Thank You Pandora for bringing this essay into light! This has given me a burst of hope that Jodi will get her freedom and new born again life !:))) my Thanks goes out to Richard Speights for his knowledge/wisdom and caring enough for a human being that needs the love/support /understanding of the wrongful injustice that has been done to her. You have truly been God Sent ! May Justice Pervail #1 Team Jodi , #FFJ

        • Exactly ! The description of those back wounds fit perfectly into a scenario where Jodi is being attacked from the front face to face and she reaches around the right side of TA and slashes at him with the knife to get him to let go of her or to get off of her….so for the person who wrote the idiotic answer to that question to state that Jodi’s “intent was to stab him where it could do the most fatal damage hence the amount of wounds to his back” was an inane conclusion given the facts that those back wounds were no where near life threatening and were just superficial injuries…ignoring the facts and evidence is something that pretty much everyone has done in this case !

  2. “She felt like an idiot. She said, “You guys aren’t going to respect me.” That was her own fear. I reassured her throughout the conversation that I loved her, and that wouldn’t change. But it wasn’t right for you to do what you were doing – making out with her, but not giving her the commitment that she deserves. You have her total commitment, and that is why you are ok with the situation. Or, were ok with it. I never said she should disown you. My whole thing, that I kept reiterating, was, “We love Travis, and we love you.”

    “She has been hurt …. A lot. And you have made her cry, and I really feel it was not what we did that upset her so much. It was the reality that she loved a person whose actions were not in accordance with how she had hoped he felt. I do feel it is mean to talk about wanting to get married, making out with a person every time you see her, but when she walks into a room full of people, you don’t stop everything to run give her a hug and a warm hello. I saw this at my house. It took too much time for you to even acknowledge her arrival … It was mean.”

    “Jodi is an awesome girl, and whoever she is making out with should be proud to let EVERYONE know. It should show in his relationship with her in public. If you care about her, don’t keep it a secret – for her sake. This causes her a lot of pain, and I told her she doesn’t deserve it. You are being a jerk. This is what I said, and this is how I feel. I know you have crap you are dealing with, and I feel for you Trav, I really do, But don’t put Jodi through emotional turmoil so she can relate better to you. It is unnecessary damage that can be prevented.”

    excerpts from Sky’s email to Travis 31 Jan 2007

      • I saw that video where sky had changed her hair color and was smerking as she walked past Jodi to take the stand. I thought then what a jealous fake she was!!! She must be so proud of herself for her and her creepy husband to be able to manipulate the trial! They sold their souls long ago to the devil!!!

    • Thanks, Carol,
      This is such a sad email in many ways. It sounds like Jodi was committing to a guy who (for whatever reasons) couldn’t commit to her. Travis purposely ignoring Jodi at a party must have been so painful and puzzling to her. If only…

    • And then you have people wondering why we don’t like the hughes… because they are sooo fucking dishonest! And for what? For money!

      Skye is a modern Judas, IMO. She betrayed Jodi in court to get the sympathy of all the haters thus make money off of the book she and her freak of a man husband wrote…

      I wonder: If the tables were turned and travis was hated by the masses, would she still have lied on the stand about Jodi? Or would she have supported and defended Jodi?

      What do you need enemies when you have friends like Sky? Sheesh… Dishonest, money seeking lying bitch.

      I rest my case.

  3. Ta Da !! Exactly !! And there’s a lot more of those emails of Sky’s that are so revealing as to their real feelings about TA and who he really was…

    That is of course, before the 2nd act of Macbeth started (aka the trial of Jodi Arias) and all the truth just somehow disappeared !! LOL !!!

    • This is a striking example of the miserable judicial conduct apparently considered acceptable in Arizona. A sitting judge on the Arizona Court of Appeals, Kent Cattani, declares: “Arias’ guilt was never in doubt. The only question in the case was whether she should spend the rest of her life in prison or be executed for her horrific crime.”

      To determine whether Jodi was guilty of any crime, and, if so, of what crime was, of course, the purpose of the penalty phase, as in any trial. She denied committing any homicide crime but claimed instead to have acted in self-defense. In the law of civilized countries, there is a presumption of innocence. Here you see the exact opposite: an appellate judge publicly stating that he himself, like everyone else, decided that Jodi was guilty before the trial began and any defense was offered. Worse still, he makes this statement while an appeal of the conviction — not the sentence, the conviction itself — is pending before the very court on which he sits!

      Cattani’s behavior is a sickening disgrace to the American judicial system. Whatever Kent Cattani is, he certainly is not “honorable.” Instead, he displays public contempt for the most basic principles of Anglo-American law.

      This article should underscore once again how crucial it is that the JAA Appellate Fund raise the rest of the funds to hire a private lawyer. Without a private lawyer, Jodi can never even get her case out of the state of Arizona and into the Federal courts, where there are real judges who, unlike Cattani, understand what due process means in America.

      • Although, Jodi is full of love and compassion for all, I would hope she wouldn’t give either of those corrupt, worthless excuses for humans the time of day. 🙄 Plus, I hope they will be too busy putting on their own pink undies for life.

        • That would be so awesome!!! Pictures on postcards, front page of News Week and on the cover of the Rolling Stones!!! Pink panties on the Frog and ALL the rest of the lie , corruption , dirty dealing individuals!!!!!!;))))

        • Oh R, that would be a sight for sore eyes… green frog in pink undies! 😀

          Mark my words: some day soon, we will hear all those fucks pleading the 5th to avoid giving self-incriminating information. It’ll be a ‘Saldate moment’ all over again… 😉

      • Like so much in this case, the jury was left to their imagination to convict Jodi instead of using the facts and evidence….

        what goes around comes around and when one of these idiot jurors gets into trouble and needs a defense …..well, they’ll get the same back in their stupid faces..

        The weapons were in the home according to Jodi and I believe Jodi..


        • And the fact that Juanita never entered Jodi’s suitcase into evidence tells me that it would have benefited Jodi…the state was expert and hiding, destroying, and altering the evidence…their time is coming…

          • By the time Jodi was arrested, whatever suitcase she had used was already unpacked with nothing inside and probably stored somewhere. Or if she had the same suitcase with her the day they arrived and she was moving, then again the suitcase wouldn’t have been intact and with the same contents as June 4th. So, what’s the point of enetring it intoevidence? I just don’t see it.

              • I have never believed the premeditation theory and the whole she brought the weapon ith her scenario, so these are questions I don’t like dealing with. But, let’s just say I entertain the thought for a second: why does it have to be the suitcase? She’s a girl, she may as well have hid the gun and knife in her purse. Do you know what you can find in a girl’s purse? Anything you can think of, LOL. Sorry, not buying the suitcase theory and if Kermit had brought it up it would make him look like a fool. Even more. 😉

                • Maria, I too agree with you. There was NO premeditated shit. Ever. The knife was already in the bedroom or bathroom area after TA used it to cut some sort of rope for tying Jodi (remember he had fantasies of tying down girls…). As for the gun? Why are we even thinking that the gun was Jodi’s when we have heard that Jodi took the gun out from TA’s walk-in closet (top shelf).

  4. Yep this case/trial was rotten. I do come away with the fact that as much as I do not like Martinez (AND I DON’T) he was very well prepared for this trial and controlled the witnesses (even his own) often by yelling and manipulation but he was 100 % in control. Obnoxious, mean, bullish, nasty, but always in control. I think the Defense was ill-prepared and often time seemed scattered. I remember thinking why are there such long pauses between questions then I realized there have no idea where they are going and what they are doing they seem to be winging it. This really sucks since they had almost 5 years to prepare for trial. A descent Attorney could have at least been on point and better prepared. They almost seemed surprised when evidence was being introduced asking permission to once again approach knowing damn well it would be introduced. I believe these factors influence juries especially looking at her defense as amateur hour. Martinez could have quite possibly stayed home and our Jodi would have been convicted anyway due to her inept defense who could not argue their way out of a paper bag. I am holding out hope for the appeal that Jodi will get a kick ass Attorney invested in her and not intimidated by the State.

    FREE JODI !!!!!!

    • The only time Martinez seemed the slightest bit flustered was when Jodi was on the stand. – She totally twisted him. 🙂

      • Having just listened to the porn hearings, it is striking that this judge shows how annoyed she seems with the defence even having the nerve to bring up this inconvenience to her courtroom. Any judge should have been appalled at the actions of the state, but instead she routes them on all the way.

        Extremely prejudicial. 😡

    • Jennifer Wilmott was much much better than Nurmi.

      And no, I don’t agree. Had the fucking frog stayed at home things would be different, believe me. Martinez is the Devil who orchestrated this charade of a trial – it just so happened that he had an inept sucking-up-to-him Judge and 2-brain-cells jurors buying his lies and watching too much HLN. Just look at Tara Kelly (though an alternate); stupidity is written all over her face!!!! Same goes for the other ones, their interviews were appalling because essentially and in their own words they make it clear how backwards they got everything 🙄

      • Just a figure of speech regarding the frog staying home. – I am re-watching the trial and am amazed by Nurmi speaking sooooooooooo slow and his fascination with his pen, picking his nose URGHHHH. Wilmott seems very scattered and there are a lot of uhmmmms, wait, just a moment please Judge, shuffling papers, and just long delays. These are not polished Attorneys and sadly they do reflect on Jodi.
        Does anyone one have any info on what’s going on with her appeal? I do hope she gets a kick ass Attorney who knows this case and will get this overturned.

        Free Jodi !!!!!!

    • Cat, I disagree on the part that you say that martinez was prepared… He had NOTHING to prepare for! His tactic is to act like a cat in heat (screaming his head off), be aggressive (like a bull being provoked), and prance around in rage (like a dick).

      What I do agree with is that first chair defense atty was indifferent to Jodi’s case & trial. He was a a court-appointed lawyer that did only what needed to be done so he wouldn’t get sanctioned. And again, that was the least of what he could have done. There was no passion, damn; he didn’t even like Jodi for starters. How can an atty win a case when they have no interest and sympathy for their client…

      • Yes Canada Carol, its very strange indeed! Enrique posted about his bad experience with travis entity!!! According to Enrique him and fellow Mormons held a seance to talk to travis amd late that night Enrique received a abusive visit from TA ! Enrique was by himself in his room and was not drinking nor doing drugs. Of course people laughed and made fun of him but for real Enrique was pretty shaken up! He said he was wide awake and knows what happen! I have always said that it was his guilty ****** conscience. But for real CC, if U think I take the teasing to far and in bad taste.. my apology. Its was the stick figures that made me think/feel it was appropriate.

        • No apologies are necessary Pam. I have a curious mind when it comes to séances. So the ghost of T-Dogg came to visit him late one night. Abusive … yup, sounds like T-Dogg.

            • Ha! Even in after life TA is the same abusive dick he was while he was among the living.. just goes to show that the saying “A leopard can’t change its spots” is true!

          • Dwight, I havr always thought that Enrique had a guilty conscience! He seems to not to be able to tell the same story twice! His story forever be changing. Maybe its his boot print in TA blood in bathroom. Maybe he is the one who cleaned carpet because he tracked blood from bottom of his boot. Someone other than Jodi put (200 lbs) travis back in that shower!!! I know that dark side people want to believe thst Jodi had the strength of Wounder Woman but truely was impossible! Jodi drove for hours and sexed with rough ass travis for hours then had a physical fight for her life after travis turned into a butt head, being jealous because Jodi was leaving to have lunch date with a potential new interest. Sorry folks, there was no strength left in Jodi to put travis so neatly back in that shower and for sure not to drag his head completely off! Plus she would of had to know/possess the skill of levitation for there were no scraps or blood on the bottom lip of shower TILL AFTER TA WAS REMOVED and stuffed in body bag!!! Our Jade pointed this out in the original crime scene photos !!! Now on another note… Mormons performing seances!!!! That is one of the biggest taboos in just about all religions!! Its like holding hands with the Devil.! You never know what doors you have opened or what being’s will come through!!!! That and the use of the Quija board can turn into very bad news!!! We all know, even the Bishop said that travis had alot of explaining to do of himself!! TA is NOT in a good place!!! Most likely he’s in purgatory!!! Jodi deserves the second chance that he’s getting! Obviously this whole scene has been compromised/corruption !! Second Degree/time served!! Free Jodi NOW !!!

            • I don’t agree with much that you’ve said there pam holt. If you want to call out Jodi, you better have some proof, not just inklings, and not just your disdain for the other players.

                • one more LITTLE thing. IF Jodi was SO worried that the intruders would HARH her and/or her family, then WHY did she betray the intruders straight out of the box? If Jodi was trying to protect herself and her family Jodi would have taken responsibility right away and forced mesa to find the intruder evidence.

                • Johnm, look at the picture of travis/Jodi at the edge of cliff. Jodi is a tiny girl with skinny arms. No muscle tone at all. I doubt she could load/unload a 60lb dog chow. Look at way chubby travis . People agree to disagree on this subject but we’re talking dead weight! There is reasonable doubt that someone or someones was there during or after Jodi left! The missing puzzle piece that all are having trouble with is “WHY” like why would horn risk his reputation? Why would other professional risk perjury? Jodi has/had memory loss due to shock/traumatized. I don’t recall reading anything about her remembering lifting ta into shower. This trial is very confusing because the state says one thing and it seems to me that Team Jodi has done a great job of debunking their case showing lies, deceit, corruption. If Jodi said she was able to put ta back in shower then I would believe it! it seems that in the early interrogation after det flor did his crime scene investigation he too thought that there was a possibility that other or others were involved. Jodi said the 2 invaders were wearing masks so she wouldn’t know.

                • I believe what Jodi testified to. You obviously do not. And you have not answered my questions for the second time.

              • Johnm, you having bad day? Im not calling out Jodi!!! Im saying a 125lb young woman doesnt have the strength to have all she has supposably done. 190 lbs dead weight?! Its my opinion and yes im entitled just like u are! I have wondered what happen to Carol Handy, Jade and a few others that would make comments on this site, bet u know. I would read on the other side where they were laughing and making fun saying they’re fighting with each other again. Its probably years down the road that Jodi hopefully wins her appeal!!! So, I will leave with this old saying. . When the old horse dies its time to get off !;) one last LITTLE thing , my typo still was understood! I blame my obsolete tablet and that it is a bitch to make it back up to correct. So johm, keep yr dress down!!!

  5. “Which brings me to my next thought. Regardless of what you may think, I am not mean to Jodi. I adore Jodi. In fact I don’t know if it has ever been easier to be nice to someone as it is with Jodi. Has a little of the imperfect Travis came out around Jodi. The answer is you better believe it, but the key word is a little and I don’t think that by any realistic standard can you deem my behavior with Jodi anywhere in the neighborhood of mean. So much so that I can’t believe I feel the need to defend myself on the matter. The next issue is her waiting around for me forever. Hence the name of Deanna being used in vain. Let me point out that I have known Jodi 4 months. I went from intrigued by her to interested in her to caring about her deeply to realizing how lucky I would be to have her as part of my life forever. That has all happened in 4 months. I would say that is pretty normal. I don’t feel that our courtship has been one of her waiting around and wasting her life. Let me reemphasize 4 months ago we didn’t know the other existed. I am scrambling and worrying and receiving extremely intense outside pressure from so many sources to fix myself that I am about to have a nervous break down. I realize what I will lose or more accurately have lost a great person in Jodi, I realize how amazing Jodi is. I am aware of my fear of commitment, I think as Jim Rohn would say I have made measurable progress in a reasonable amount of time. At least as far as my relationship with Jodi is concerned. Does that mean I expect Jodi to wait around for 4 more months or 4 more years so I can figure it all out? No. My selfish side wants her to wait around but I know its not fair to her and believe it or not I do care enough to put someone including a girl above my own selfish desires.”

    from TA’s email to Chris and Sky (1/29/07)

    • CanadaCarol:

      Where are you getting these emails from?

      Please post a link for them.

      Are there any dated a few days earlier or did this flurry of emails start on 01/29/07?

      Email from Travis to Sky/Chris Hughes, 01/29/07:
      “… I am scrambling and worrying and receiving extremely intense outside pressure from so many sources to fix myself that I am about to have a nervous break down. I realize what I will lose or more accurately have lost a great person in Jodi, I realize how amazing Jodi is. I am aware of my fear of commitment, I think as Jim Rohn would say I have made measurable progress in a reasonable amount of time”

      I noticed this is two days after the date of the “pedo letter” (01/27/07) where Travis admits to sex with boys and hurting boys. If the year is not a mistake (off by a year) and Jodi had read it, this may have sparked the email exchanges we are reading if Jodi had contacted Sky for counsel on the matter.

      I don’t know if Jodi and Sky were talking/texting because most of the emails were between Chris/Sky Hughes and Travis.

      Who is Jim Rohn? Was he possibly a therapist/church elder Travis was seeing about his pedophilia problem unbeknownst to Jodi? Was this what he is referring to by “fix myself”?
      and “measurable progress”?

      • “Emanuel James “Jim” Rohn was an American entrepreneur, author and motivational speaker”. TA and Jodi discussed his works as well. The guy obviously made an impression on him.

        The parts I quoted were from one series of emails, first Travis to them on Jan 29th and their replies back and forth that lasted a couple of more days. Jodi had been visiting the Hughes and the subject of Travis not treating her the way that she should be came up. They referred to as Deanna several times and advised her to move on and not waste her time like Deanna. Sky spoke about how their friend Travis was abusive to women and how his childhood had F’d him up in the head, etc. Jodi then spoke to Travis because she was now doubting her impression of him. Because of the pain that it had caused Jodi and what he considered “irreparable damage” to their relationship caused by what the Hughes had told her, Travis wrote an email to them expressing this pain and his disappointment, to say the least, with his friends the Hughes. Sky first replied back, and then Chris. This series of emails were admitted as evidence and one of the pieces of evidence that the defence experts relied upon, although during the first trial, Objection Juan made sure that very little of it actually was heard by the jury. During the retrial, Dr. F. relied on these emails and we finally got to hear more of what they said. They were released to the press, but with very little circulation. This was what really started their problem with Jodi, because Sky felt she had gone to TA behind her back, and caused their friendship with Travis to be damaged.

  6. “She mentioned that a comment was made that if she continued to associate with me that you both would lose all respect for her. She also mentioned that you were continually calling her Deanna. To some it up the past 3 days you were beating in her head that I am a broken person that is F’d up in the head who needs counciling, that I am extremely abusive to women and the fact that she in interested in me proves that she has her own head problems and needs counciling too. What I find ironic is that your whole basis for all this I am assuming is so that I don’t hurt her. What is also ironic, is that Jodi and I have never had an argument, not one.”

    “What I seriously don’t get is if you are so concerned about Jodi’s feelings did you ever consider what it might do to her feelings when she was a number of times referred to as Deanna, told that your respect for her is contingent on her disowning one of her best friends and the person that introduced her to the church, calling her blind and that she needs counciling. How do you think that effects her feelings. I have never ever heard Jodi cry, not once until I talked to her a few moments ago and all it I heard was tears and fear.”

    from TA’s email to Chris and Sky (1/29/07)

    • “We have had so many conversations about me needing to get married, but than you tell Jodi that I am mean and abusive and a jerk. I suppose you told her that because you like her and you care for her. So who should I marry then? Someone not as good as her. Someone you don’t like or would not have the potential to care about, someone that sucks so bad that she deserves to be abused and wait around indefinitely. If I am as bad as you have depicted me to be then you really believe that I shouldn’t be marrying anybody. So my question to you is am I that bad of a person, or just not good enough for the likes of Jodi? ”

      from TA’s email to Chris & Sky (1/29/07)

      Juror 17 was the only juror with a brain in her head and a beating heart in her chest. IMHO

      • “She respects your opinion so much that you did about as much damage to our relationship with your comments as if I would have by back handing her across her face myself. 3 days ago she thought I was a great guy. Tonight she said that I was “someone with major character flaws” she just hasn’t experienced the severity of them yet. How do you think that made me feel about my good friends Chris and Sky Hughes. Guys I am sorry but while I am trying desperately to overcome my problems so that I don’t lose something great like I have done before. You are kicking me while I am down and ruining any chance that I had. It is one thing if she decides I am not the one based on who I am or what I have done but this is ridiculous. Your remarks have become part of the problem and not the solution. How with such a endorsement am I ever supposed to get married.”

        from TA’s email to Chris & Sky (1/29/07)

        • “….as if I would have by back handing her across her face myself.”

          Again very telling in that what right thinking person would ever make such a statement unless they have back handed a woman before??

          And in this particular email it sounds a lot like TA is wanting or leaning in the direction of wanting to marry Jodi…which backs up Jodi’s story that TA asked her more than once to marry him..I don’t think TA’s family ever bought that story.. they wanted to continue to think that Jodi was the one that wanted TA and not the other way around..

          • Reading these passages makes me wonder: how unlikely do you think it is that the hughes were the reason for TA’s and Jodi’s problems? I think they (sky and chris hughes) were shit stirrers and planted their evilness into both TA and Jodi to make them turn against each other…

      • “From what I know of Jodi, I would take away your free-agency, and make you marry her today. I want you guys to get married, and that is part of why I told her to move on until you are the guy you need to be for her. It wasn’t good for her to be confused and sad the way she was, not for long term success. “

        “You wanted to be made a better, and I have never seen you with anyone that can do that better than Jodi, nor have I ever met anyone that I would put you with more than Jodi. Chris and I have talked about, “What/who is Travis going to marry? I couldn’t come up with the person/personality, until Jodi.”

        Excerpts from email from Sky to Travis 31 Jan 2007

        • Wow, the written word here is powerful…

          “From what I know of Jodi, I would take away your free-agency, and make you marry her today. I want you guys to get married…”

          It is just a shame that none of these emails came out in the criminal trial at least not enough in order to make a difference for the jury to see the truth about who TA really was and how Chris and Sky Hughes thought so highly of Jodi…

          • BB, The words that stand out to me that sky said is “I would take away” AND ” make you” sky thinks she has control over travis. sky the string pulling puppet master!

            • Yes, it seems that both her and Chris seemed to be overseeing and controlling somewhat or trying to control TA’s life and choices, but perhaps they were just trying to help him see what was good for him…don’t know really…they are a puzzle to me…those two…but it is good insight into how they really thought about TA and that they thought Jodi was a good person and should be treated much better by TA…

          • Guys, please remind me, why weren’t all these e-mails introduced as evidence in the trial? Are they the so called ‘forged’ e-mails? If they were part of what the jury had heard, we wouldn’t be here today analyzing them: Jodi would have been set free and enjoying her life.

      • “…someone that sucks so bad that she deserves to be abused…”

        So here we see that TA actually believes that some women deserve to be abused….very telling…the truth is out…

        No right thinking person would ever make a statement like this unless that person believed that some women deserve to be abused…namely an abuser…named TA !!!!

        • From Travis to Chris/Sky Hughes:

          “To some [sic, sum] it up the past 3 days you were beating in her head that I am a broken person that is F’d up in the head who needs counciling, that I am extremely abusive to women and the fact that she in interested in me proves that she has her own head problems and needs counciling too.

          … So who should I marry then? Someone not as good as her. Someone you don’t like or would not have the potential to care about, someone that sucks so bad that she deserves to be abused and wait around indefinitely.”

          Here Travis is hypothesizing about a future woman that would be acceptable to the Hughes and postulating that “,,, someone that sucks so bad that she deserves to be abused …” is all the Hughes will consider him worthy of – lol.

          • Who says that about anyone regardless of whether he is hypothesizing or not?? Most people just don’t talk or think like that…..”someone that sucks so bad that SHE DESERVES TO BE ABUSED…”

            This gives us insight into his mind and what he thinks some women deserve…IMHO…no right thinking person would say something like that….IMHO

    • Wow,…CanadaCarol, all this information of all these people getting shot in the head & into their brain & living, some not even knowing they were shot, proves that Dr Horn ((manipulated the jury)) about the shot to Travis’ face & head would have to have been almost immediately incapacitating to Travis, so he insisted that the shot had to be last. …Oh, so knowingly incorrect. …Oh, so self serving to the state.
      …I was watching a re-play on TV about Andrea Yates who drowned her 5 kids in Texas & found guilty. Then my mind was refreshed as to why she got a new trial. I went to Google & looked up Andrea Yates & clicked on the Wikipedia entry. ….And, I am Paraphrasing: ……..prosecution witness, Dr Park Dietz admitted (((he had given materially false testimony during the trial))). … …The convictions were reversed & she got a new trial. ….She was found not guilty by reason of insanity. ….And this was in Texas!!!

        • I am just wondering if anyone can find out if Dr Horn is “board certified”, as many doctors have to be to perform operations on people that “are alive”, and would he have to answer to a higher authority of doctors (to maintain his board certification) rather than just answer to the higher authority of POLITICAL PERSUASION ???
          …I looked up the basic definition of BOARD CERTIFICATION, and I read that it is a voluntary process, and one that is very different from medical licensure. Obtaining a ((medical license)) sets the ((minimum competency requirements)) to diagnose and treat patients, it is not specialty specific.
          …I know that the courts system would (probably) say that BOARD CERTIFICATION is not necessary for a Medical Examiner because Dr Horn does not operate on “alive patients”, all his clients are dead. …INCORRECT, INCORRECT, Medical Examiners (do operate on alive people) with their “guesswork & opinionated testimony” which could almost always influence a jury towards the death penalty or LWOP of perfectly innocent people.
          …In other words: would Jodi Arias’ Appeals Court Judge (in need of a heart operation) go to a foot doctor (just because he/she is a DOCTOR), or go to a heart surgeon with Board Certification?
          …Same question to all the past & prospective jurors: Would you go to a foot doctor for a heart operation???

  7. What amazed me is if Jodis defense team had done their homework they could of had a slap down on sky AND deanna while they were under oath purging theirself! All it would of took was bringing in the emails! How was sky/deanna so confident that they could take the stand under oath and lie!??! Was the emails hid from the defense till after trial was over ? Would of liked to seen the looks on these she devils after they spewed their lies and then defense would come back at them with the words… really?! Then explain these last conversations you had with ta ! Sure would of helped Jodi prove her self defense! I still get the feeling that sky, deanna and other mormons are behind this . The locked door, the pet gate, the phony pictures, the time/date stamp. TA car, laptop with missing sm cards, phone, ring all in plain sight. Cleaning of the carpets, misst important conference calls but hughes dosnt check up on ta?! Deanna is in town to try to collect some of the hundreds of money ta owes her before he leaves for Cancun. Plus the fact deanna would know code to key pad and highly a house key. PLUS THE FACT there is a stinking dead body in the house for 5 days but nobody notice anything of being wrong!!!! BS!!!

    • This has always been a huge pile of stinky Hughs crap to me. What were the crew doing for so long? what were they trying to clean up and/or hide???

    • Just the fact that TA was dead for 5 days in the middle of the summer (combine heat with corpse), in a house with roommates + girlfriend galavanting in and out and nobody getting WHIFF (pun not intended) of something being bloody (pun not intended again) wrong is mind-boggling to me. I will NEVER let go of that.

      • I too struggle with this. – I think the roommates should have been questioned a bit better and not just cut loose as non-suspects. There is something fishy with these guys running in and out of the house with no investigation on where that smell was coming from. – I also think the police allowed Chris Hughes to collect Travis’s papers and journals which WAS FREAKING EVIDENCE !!!!!! Chris was able to remove all evidence which would have portrayed Travis in a bad light thus hurting Jodi’s claims.

    • Great addition to your site !!!!

      Bc a lot of people have no clue that some of the key testimony of Dr. Horn was just speculation on his part about TA’s condition in order to appease and support the state’s phony theory of what happened…IMHO. Dr. Horn was balancing on a tight wire in that he could NOT come out and definitively state things in black and white terms like for example stating that the bullet did penetrate the brain so he was left with his pathetic answers like “IT MUST HAVE” and on and on and on….these answers he gave are equivocations and speculations that are not sufficient in legal terms and were only given in order to sway or influence the jury into believing he was stating something that he actually was not…IMHO….his testimony about the condition of TA’s body had to be within a reasonable medical probability and those speculative answers appear to be far from reasonable medical probability and they had absolutely no evidence to back them up…On the other hand Dr. Horn’s original autopsy report and the state’s original theory that they maintained for years and years that the gunshot was first and that it did not incapacitate TA has ALL THE EVIDENCE SUPPORTING IT!!!

      All of this robbed Jodi Ann Arias of a fair trial…it needs a remedy from the appellate court..and they have seen this scenario before and so hopefully will be reminded that yet again they need to remedy this error…

      My question is what was in it for Dr. Horn?? He had no motivation on his own to equivocate and speculate and influence the jury one way or the other…Who did? Only the state had the motivation…so my question is what was in it for Dr. Horn???

      Just asking….

      All IMHO

      • I sure don’t know. It’s a real head scratcher. Maybe Martinez has something on him. I wouldn’t be surprised if Horn has a few vulnerabilities or that Martinez might threaten him with them. Horn sure had to work hard to say something without saying anything. That takes a lot of energy.

        • It’s sure an interesting way to testify. If Horn’s ever called on the carpet for it, he can certainly say he didn’t perjure himself. He didn’t say that Travis’ brain was penetrated or Travis’ lung was nicked. And if the jury happened to think that’s what he was saying, well, he can hardly help that.

          • “The attorneys said they are particularly concerned about the tests the Medical Examiner’s Office will not be performing.

            Raynak said Medical Examiner Dr. Kevin Horn told the attorneys’ investigator that they would not be testing for gunshot residue, powder burns or stippling — evidence that would indicate the placement of Brisbon’s hands when the shooting occurred.

            The cover-up begins,” Raynak said. “Any claim of transparency is a hollow phrase. Rumain, his mother and his children deserve better.”

            Raynak, who has been a criminal defense attorney for almost 30 years and has been involved in dozens of gunshot-wound cases, said he has never known a case where the medical examiner declines to check for gunshot residue, gun power or stippling.

            Gerchick said the Medical Examiner’s Office has the statutory authority to investigate cause and manner of death, as well as the responsibly to decide what needs to be evaluated.

            “You could go testing for all sorts of things that could be totally irrelevant,” she said. “We’re really looking at what is of interest and significance, and what is scientifically significant in the forensic pathologist’s opinion.”


            • Gee, where have we heard that name before?? Dr. Horn..They would NOT be testing for gunshot residue, powder burns or stippling? For real?? I wonder how many times his name has come up in appellate issues on cases?? Just asking…

              Oh, gosh no, we don’t want to know whether there was any gunshot residue, powder burns or stippling, do we? Afterall that may lead us to the truth !!!


              • What they are looking for is what supports the prosecutor/state’s position. If there was one thing that Horn should be interested in this case is the hands of the deceased. I believe this answers the question posed as to why Horn would change his testimony. He is one with the men in blue and the bossy, crooked prosecutors in that city.

                • Perhaps and it sure looks that way, but my question is still WHY ??? What would be in it for him in order for him to want to set aside his moral, ehtical, and legal duties????

          • Yes, but in the eyes of the appellate judges I hope they would find that to be a distinction without a difference for the sake of justice !!!

            • The jury was obviously swayed and influenced to believe that the gunshot did penetrate the brain and thus would have incapacitated TA and therefore the gunshot could not have been first…. swaying or influencing the jury to believe something that never was with speculative opinions and equivocations that were no where near being a reasonable medical probability with no evidence to back up those speculations/equivocations….IMHO. The appellate judges could easily find that was error and it robbed Jodi of her constitutional right to a fair trial and reverse, remand, or dismiss with prejudice..

              As far as Dr. Horn goes, I really don’t know what the ramifications would be to him personally if any if the appellate judges decided he did indeed sway or influence the jury into believing something that has no evidence to back it up and although maybe he did not technically perjure himself, nonetheless the jury was swayed and the damage done to Jodi. I guess it would depend on whether or not the judges concluded (and I don’t know how this would be done) that the state suborned perjury with regards to the testimony of Det Flores and Dr. Horn…and this is where the distinction without a difference would come in perhaps…the end result was the same, the jury was influenced into believing
              something that never happened…

              All IMHO

  8. The person who answered the questions has also given us their definition of “reasonable doubt”:

    “Reasonable Doubt – This means that the proposition being presented by the prosecution must be proven to the extent that there could be no “reasonable doubt” in the mind of a “reasonable person” that the defendant is guilty. There can still be a doubt, but only to the extent that it would not affect a reasonable person’s belief regarding whether or not the defendant is guilty. A jury or 12 people believed that Jodi committed this crime as the prosecution presented it. The believed it was premeditated and exceptionally cruel. Not one of those 12 had a reasonable doubt in their mind as to her guilt. No evidence presented in Jodi’s defense that bared out any of her her allegations, just theories and the retelling of her stories. Putting the victim on trial is an old defense trick that is used everyday in our court system. Right after that is self defense. If you were her lawyer, what other defense could you provide her? Jodi painted herself into a corner, and they went with the best that they could.”

    And here’s my response:

    “There are several problems with your analysis. To begin with you state “No evidence presented in Jodi’s defense that bared out any of her allegations, just theories and the retelling of her stories.” For the umpteenth time, it is not the job of the defendant to prove her defense; it is the job of the State to prove it could not have happened the way she said it did and the only thing the State proved was that she lied to the police. They proved nothing else, absolutely nothing else. As to putting the “victim” on trial, this was a self-defense case and in a self-defense case we don’t know who the victim is until the trial is over so to say the “victim” was put on trial is ridiculous. But it sounds like you must be in the same camp as Tanisha who wants a law passed called “Travis’ Law” whereby in a self-defense case, nothing unpleasant can be said about the person who lost the fight. Good luck with that if you ever have to defend yourself and end up winning. As to 12 people believing that Jodi was guilty of premeditated murder based purely on the fact that she lied to the police, that means nothing to me other than they weren’t paying attention, or like you folks, believed Jodi was required to prove her innocence. God help our justice system!”

      • The conversation continued:


        “I said that Jodi didn’t provide any evidence that collaborated her allegations against Travis. Lets assume that Jodi didnt lie before trial, why would you just automatically believe her? You wouldn’t. You would ask for evidence, which she never provided.”

        My astonished response:

        “WHY WOULD I AUTOMATICALLY BELIEVE HER??? Exactly because that’s what the law requires!!! In Arizona and 23 other states (such as Florida), in a self-defense case the burden is on the State to prove that it WAS NOT self-defense. In Jodi’s case, the burden of proof was unfairly reversed (by you and folks like you) and it fell upon her shoulders to prove that it WAS self-defense. And, in spite of everything that you choose to ignore, there was plenty of circumstantial evidence that Travis was the abusive one in the relationship. Where, pray tell, is the proof that he wasn’t?”

    • And btw,

      “A jury or {of} 12 people believed that Jodi committed this crime as the prosecution presented it.”

      Just bc I am a person who is a stickler for details this is NOT true. SEVEN OF THE JURORS VOTED FOR FELONY MURDER !!! Hello? Do we know what a felony murder is ???? A felony murder is one that is NOT PREMEDITATED !!!! And the fact that the felony murder charge was allowed by IDIOT JSS may be another possible issue on appeal.

      Let me explain…well many may ask well why would that be wrong to include a felony murder charge? Well normally it wouldn’t be but in this case here is what the state was claiming in order to include this charge:

      Here is what I know of this matter as I understand it….In the original indictment by the grand jury, Jodi was charged with premeditated 1st degree murder or IN THE ALTERNATIVE felony murder. Stated exactly as follows:


      JODI ANN ARIAS, on or about the 4th day of June, 2008, acting either alone or with one or more other persons, committed or attempted to commit Burglary, Second Degree, and in the course of and in furtherance of such offense, or immediate flight from such offense, JODI ANN ARIAS or another person caused the death of TRAVIS V. ALEXANDER, in violation of $$ 13-1105, 13-1101, 13-702, 13-703, 13-703.01 and 13-801.

      The State of Arizona further alleges that the offense charged in this count is a dangerous”


      Now the felony murder is a murder that occurs during the course of a felony and in this case that felony was stated to be a “burglary, second degree”

      Now in the state of AZ, a burglary doesn’t necessarily mean you are committing a theft (leave it to AZ to decide that will you !!) It is defined as follows:

      “The crime of Burglary in the Second Degree requires proof that

      the defendant: Entered or remained unlawfully in or on a residential

      structure; and Did so with the intent to commit any theft or felony therein.”

      Okay so the state argued that Jodi committed 2nd degree burglary bc she remained unlawfully in or on a residential structure and did so with the intent to commit any theft or felony therein…

      Question: What was Jodi’s “intent to commit any theft or felony therein?” In other words, it was Jodi’s intent to commit WHAT THEFT OR FELONY THEREIN????

      Another question: At what point does TA revoke his permission for Jodi to be there in his home? Well, I believe the state’s position was that at the point Jodi allegedly starts to attack TA with the knife..the prosecutor argued that he himself would guess that TA if he could have he would have revoked his permission for Jodi to be there in his home at the point she starts to attack him…

      So another question: At the point that Jodi allegedly starts to attack TA with the knife and has NOW just committed 2nd degree burglary according to the state’s assertion (bc prior to that the evidence presented showed that Jodi was welcomed into the home by TA having sex, etc…for hours on end…) what “theft or felony therein” did she intend to commit?

      Well, the prosecutor argued that it was the “assault” the stabbings themselves that formed the felony therein.

      However, as I see it this is a HUGE PROBLEM FOR THE STATE bc nowhere in the statute does the state of AZ list “assault” as one of the predicate felonies for felony murder. Burglary is listed, but not assault. The state argues that the “assault” was the felony therein committed required by the 2nd degree burglary by remaining unlawfully on or in TA’s property.

      The state is arguing that Jodi became an unwelcome guest (committing 2nd degree burglary) the second she began her premeditated murder of TA.

      IMHO…the state is trying to HAVE THEIR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO ! !!! I don’t believe that the appellate courts will fall for this twisted logic that the state is serving up.

      There is a rule called the merger rule which in essence says that the underlying felony in a felony murder can NOT be “assault.” Why? Bc EVERY MURDER INCLUDES ASSAULT !! And if you allow “assault” to be the underlying predicate felony in felony murder you then obliterate the distinction between murder and assault and you further obliterate any distinction between 2nd degree murder and first degree murder….in other words you would no longer have any degree of distinction between murders and every murder would be considered a felony murder. If you could count “assault” as the underlying predicate for felony murder then EVERY MURDER WOULD BE A FELONY MURDER..and there would no longer be any distinction between degrees of murder.

      First degree felony murder requires an underlying predicate felony that is DIFFERENT from the murder itself (this is why “assault” can not be the underlying predicate as every murder involves an assault.) This is different than 2nd degree murder which requires a depraved indifference or recklessness, etc. with no underlying predicate felony, as I understand it. Both first degree felony murder and second degree murder do NOT include premeditation. And in the original indictment, Jodi was charged with first degree premeditated murder and in the ALTERNATIVE, felony murder based on a 2nd degree burglary.

      So question: Why would Juanita want to include this felony murder charge when the state’s entire case was based on the supposed premeditation of the murder of TA?

      Well, as far as I can see, it was done to ensure that the jury would come back with a first degree murder conviction and it to ensure that NO second degree or manslaughter charge would ever be considered. IT WAS UNFAIR and I believe it was in error. This could be a question that gets to the SCOTUS (Supreme court of the United States.)

      The state prosecution can not have it rigged so that a defendant is deprived of the opportunity to have the jurors consider a lesser degree of conviction, which is exactly what happened in this case bc of the felony murder charge.

      The Five jurors that only voted for first degree premeditated murder weren’t having any of the nonsense about the felony murder charge. However, the Seven jurors that voted for both the Felony murder charge and the first degree premeditated charged were IMHO confused. They were confused by the convoluted arguments by the state on this matter and confused by the jury instructions allowing them to vote for both Felony murder and premeditated murder.

      This could be a question that could go to the Supreme Court of the United States to answer and clarify bc it seems to me that AZ is obviously out of the mainstream on their ambiguous statutes related to felony murder, specifically as regards to 2nd degree burglary as the underlying felony in felony murder.

      In this case, the state argues that Jodi committed 2nd degree burglary by remaining on the property of TA unlawfully the second she starts her attack on him with the knife and it is that act of starting her premeditated killing of TA (which the state argued vehemently throughout the trial – that Jodi premeditated this killing) that is the felony that is committed herein required within the 2nd degree burglary charge as well as the required killing in the course of a felony that is required for felony murder….This can NOT be. There is no distinction between her starting the supposed premeditated killing of TA (the assault – which the state argued is the predicate felony herein in the 2nd degree burglary charge) to supposedly qualify it as a felony murder (which by definition is NOT a premeditated killing) and the premeditated murder charge.

      The state is literally arguing in a circle….around and around…chasing it’s own tail !!

      Goodness, I am sure I have confused people, but I’m trying my best to explain carefully…

      Bottom line is that KN was exactly correct when he said that the felony murder charge made no sense and that is was made out of fear…it was there to ensure a conviction on first degree murder, period, and in the process it took away Jodi’s chance with a jury of finding her guilty of some lesser degree…


      • Also how can the state say that TA revoked his permission??? When was he to have done that.? Oh yeah, when he had her tied to the bed… silly me!;)) the state and det flor has said it more than once that someone or someones was with Jodi!????! Makes me think/feel that masked people did come in and invade! They let Jodi live so they could set her up (scape goat) to take the fall for the murder of travis alexander. They tried to put her to death “twice” but when that failed they made it were she will be in prison for the rest of her life! 🙁 the mormons couldnt just kill ta without alot of messy loose ends. Someone had to take the fall who better to do that than Jodi. Fact is travis and Jodi could not would notstay away from each other. TA being with Jodi again had to really piss off sky! Hughes were alwayd up in TA personal business. They laid in his bed with him behind a closed door while Jodi was a invited guest!!! How weird is that!! But yet hughes never check up on TA when he missed a very important conference call and has basically fell off the radar for 5 days. And lets not leave out TA journals that hughes some how came into possession of and was made by court order to hand them over!!???! Jodi was in shock and still is. She is afraid for herself/family!

        • Little Juanita stated in argument to the judge that if TA could have he would have revoked his permission…little Juanita was just sure of it !!! LOL!!!! So we now have the prosecutor inserting himself into the case and testifying for TA…saying positively that TA would have revoked his permission for her to be there if he only could have….

      • BB:
        Do you have a link or copy of the guilty phase juror forms?

        I keep hearing about this “felony murder” charge but there is no such charge in the Arizona criminal statutes. There is only 1st and 2nd degree murder.

        • Look further on what constitutes 1st degree murder.

          It’s murder in the 1st degree IF –

          the murder is premeditated
          someone dies during the commission of another felony

          • Journee:
            Can you refer me to the statute that describes “felony murder”? I get no result when I search for that phrase in the Arizona Statutes.

              • Journee:

                The Arizona Statute please. I am well versed in “the law” and don’t need any “legal definitions. I have a legal dictionary.

                I’m claiming that there is no such “Arizona Statute”. Your definition is “legal slang”.
                If you can find one (in the Arizona Statutes), please post the section, chapter and verse. When I search “The Revised Arizona Statutes ( for “Murder” I find no such phrase as “felony murder” and it looks like there is only Murder I and Murder II.

                • The section is 13.1105A.2, quoted below. It doesn’t use the term ‘felony murder’, but that’s what everyone, including lawyers, calls it.

                • And I told you to look at the statute that explains first degree murder. Felony murder is described there.

                • At the top of this JAII page, click “Court Docs” and you will find a copy of the Final Jury Instructions from 2013, which uses the term “felony murder.”

                • I quote from Revised Arizona Statutes:

                  “13-1105. First degree murder; classification
                  “A. A person commits first degree murder if:
                  1.Intending or knowing that the person’s conduct will cause death, the person causes the death of another person, including an unborn child, with premeditation or, as a result of causing the death of another person with premeditation, causes the death of an unborn child.
                  [implied or omitted]
                  2. Acting either alone or with one or more other persons the person commits or attempts to commit … [various other crimes]”

                  The above section is merely a listing of things which constitute “First Degree Murder” which is the actual offense. It is listed in the classification section and is not a separate and distinct offense.

                  As I said, there is no such crime as “felony murder” in the Arizona statutes.
                  [end of transmission]

                • I guess we better alert Jodi’s appellate attorney that the jury instructions were defective. No such crime as rape in Arizona, either, let alone statutory rape, by the same test.

                  The reason 13.1105A.2 doesn’t use the term “felony murder” is that not every kind of felony can support such a charge, but only the specifically enumerated offenses in that section. Originally in English law, any felony could support a felony murder charge. Later there was a trend to restrict it to dangerous felonies, and nowadays, as the Arizona provision illustrates, the felonies that qualify may be specifically enumerated in the statute. For an excellent discussion of this or almost any topic in substantive criminal law, see Wayne LaFave, CRIMINAL LAW. It is my favorite of the various criminal-law texts I’ve seen.

                • Alan:

                  “I guess we better alert Jodi’s appellate attorney that the jury instructions were defective. No such crime as rape in Arizona, either, let alone statutory rape, by the same test.”

                  True. Its a red state. They like rape there – lol.

                  Seriously, though most jurisdictions use the term “sexual assault” not rape, for example:
                  13-1406 – Sexual assault; classification; increased punishment.

                  “The reason 13.1105A.2 doesn’t use the term “felony murder” is that not every kind of felony can support such a charge, but only the specifically enumerated offenses in that section.”

                  And those other crimes it enumerates are still not referred to as “felony murder”.

                  I would not be surprised if some that it enumerates are actually not felonies since the difference between a felony and a misdemeanor is arbitrary.

                  Maybe that’s why it doesn’t use the term felony murder. The offenses listed are those which escalate an otherwise indeterminate killing to “First Degree Murder”. They do not make the crime which has now been escalated to “First Degree Murder” a separate/different crime (i.e. felony murder).

      • BB, I agree with a lot of that, but would dispute you on four points. (1) “Or” can be inclusive (A or B or both) as well as exclusive. As far as I know (but I do not have time to go to the library to check), juries can vote for both of two charges “in the alternative.” In this case, JSS specifically said they could. (2) As of 2003, anyway, the “majority view,” according to a standard textbook (Wayne LaFave, CRIMINAL LAW, 4th ed, 2003, p. 762) is that “a burglary committed with intent to engage in an aggravated battery” can indeed be the predicate for felony murder, and one of the cases it cites is from Arizona: State v. Miller, 110 Ariz. 489, 520 P.2d 1113 ((1974). I have not looked at more recent textbooks. You and many others may think this is bad policy, but it may be OK under Arizona law. (3) Anyway, as late as his closing argument JM mentioned gun theft as a possible predicate for burglary, not just assault. (4) I’d think that to an appeals court, everything about felony murder is at worst “harmless error,” since there was unanimity for premeditated murder. So I doubt that any of this is an appellate issue.

        • Good points.

          The gun as a possible theft goes nowhere. Jodi got rid of the gun so how is it that she killed TA to get the gun?? Makes no sense and that was thrown out immediately as a possibility by KN. And further the entire state’s case was based on this supposed gun theft from Jodi’s grandfather…also no evidence for that either but the state was allowed to argue that throughout the case.

          I don’t know if we can pre-suppose that the seven jurors would have voted the same way had they been forced to either convict on premeditated murder or felony murder, not both. We just don’t know but the point is here that the prosecution is getting way too creative with the felony murder statute in my opinion and many others in order to all but guarantee she would be convicted on first degree murder and take away her opportunity to have the jurors find her guilty on something less. Let the legislature make the laws, not the state prosecutor’s office. Every aspect of the premeditated murder was found in the felony murder…there was no distinction and no separation whatsoever. This is a problem.

          Frankly, I believe that the Felony murder charge should never have been allowed once the state firmly planted their position that the murder was premeditated. Why have a felony murder charge?? What is is there for???

          And again, think about it, the Felony murder is a murder that is NOT premeditated. How can a person be convicted of a non premeditated murder and at the same time be convicted of a premeditated murder?? This is a question for the appellate courts and possibly the SCOTUS to clarity for AZ. It is not a fair statute the way it is being implemented in AZ and there are legal minds that agree.

          You make good points but there are two sides and this should be settled by the courts in order to clarify the statute and give defendants a fair trial.

          It should not be a heads I win and tails you lose scenario which is what it was here.

          • And also when it states OR IN THE ALTERNATIVE, I believe that means one or the other, but not both or it should have stated something like IN ADDITION she is being charged with….

            “Or in the alternative” as I understand it means the one or the other of two or more choices..

          • I had a part backwards and mean to say that every aspect of the Felony murder was included and found in the first degree premeditated murder…..

            • Yes, I agree, Dwight. The gun was TA’s and she retrieved it from his shelf in the closet.

              What I was referring to was the prosecutor’s false scenario IMHO that he presented to the jury as a possibility for the intended felony under the felony murder charge. I was pointing out that in order for that charge to stick under the felony murder charge, Jodi would NOT have thrown the gun away and gotten rid of it….In other words, under the state’s position for the felony murder charge the state was stating that Jodi:

              1) committed burglary by remaining on TA’s property after she supposedly started attacking him bc TA would have revoked his permission for her to be there if he could have
              2) once she started attacking TA her intended felony was A) “assault” or B) “stealing the gun from TA”
              3) In furtherance of the intended felony she killed him

              This was their argument for the felony murder charge. However, under B) “stealing the gun from TA” this went nowhere and would never have been accepted bc if under the felony murder charge she had intended to steal TA’s gun and in furtherance of that intended felony she killed him, she never would have thrown the gun away. In other words if she was sooooo bent on stealing and getting TA’s gun that she would go to the length of killing him in order to steal it why would she ever throw it away? This position was outright rejected by JSS I believe and of course KN dismissed it out of hand as well.

              And IMHO under A) “assault” as the intended felony this does NOT work either….

              The whole felony murder charge was in error IMHO…for several reasons. I believe it is in error bc of the following:

              1) Under the felony murder rule the felony must be separate and distinct from the murder….In this case it was not…it was the state’s position that the “assault” was the intended felony
              2) “assault” “killing” murder” can NOT be the felony in felony murder and under the AZ statute it is NOT one of the 16 listed dangerous felonies that qualify as a felony can NOT be the felony involved in felony murder bc EVERY MURDER INVOLVES “ASSAULT” and therefore if “assault” was the felony involved in felony murder, then every murder would be a felony murder and you would obliterate the distinction between 1st degree and 2nd degree murder and there would be no lesser degrees of murder
              3) there is a “merger rule” that says that the felony within the felony murder charge must be separate and distinct from the murder…it can not be the “assault” or the “murder” itself…it must be different

              What little Juanita did IMHO was to creatively pervert the felony murder rule in order to all but guarantee that Jodi would be convicted on a first degree murder charge which of course carries a much higher and severe sentence…It took Jodi’s opportunity away that would have allowed her to be convicted on some lesser degree of murder. The jury was confused on this felony murder charge and it showed by the split vote on that charge. The state used this charge as a vehicle for a first degree murder conviction. IMHO


              How can Jodi be convicted of a NON-premeditated murder and at the same time be convicted of Premeditated murder…

              Well, the jury was confused and was told that they could find her guilty of both by the state but IMHO this was an error to even allow the felony murder charge to be there bc THERE WAS NO FELONY, PERIOD !!!! None of the 16 dangerous felonies under the felony murder rule applied to this case, IMHO…

              The state was desperate and tweaked and twisted and turned and recreated the felony murder rule to try to make it fit this case…IMHO

              The state said the “assault” – the killing – is the reason for the burglary charge and the “assault” – the killing – was also the intended felony and the “assault” – the killing was also the murder committed in the course of the burglary.

              WRONG !!! The predicate felony, the intended felony, and the murder CAN NOT BE THE SAME THING !! There must be a distinction and separation between them, otherwise it is NOT a felony murder.

              And in this case it was NOT a felony murder. It was as KN said…either Jodi was there to kill TA or she wasn’t..that’s it…the felony murder charge was just there to assure and all but guarantee that she would be convicted of a first degree murder charge. It was NOT applied correctly IMHO and it is NOT just harmless error.

              Why? A lot of people will say it is harmless error bc the 7 jurors that voted for the felony murder charge also voted for the 1st degree premeditated murder charge. However, you can not presume what the results would have been had the jurors been forced to decide either she was there to kill TA in a premeditated fashion or she wasn’t.

              The seven jurors OBVIOUSLY BELIEVED that Jodi was invited into the home and was welcome there – they had sex for hours on end, etc… – but they believed that something happened and in that instant Jodi (supposedly) started to attack TA for some reason. The jurors were also told that premeditation can occur very quickly in just a second of thought, etc. These 7 jurors showed that they believed that the premeditation occurred sometime AFTER the attack began otherwise they would have never have voted for the felony murder. (The state’s argument is stated above)

              And bc the jurors were told by the instructions and by the state that they could vote for both and that both would apply they did just that and they voted for both thinking that bc Jodi started attacking TA at some point and then she formed the premeditation to kill TA they then could justifiably vote for both.

              And the reason they made this mistake and were confused IMHO is exactly bc the state was allowed to pervert and creatively distort the felony murder rule and the state was allowed to erroneously say that the “assault” was the intended felony (WHEN IN REALITY THERE WAS NO FELONY!! involved for a felony murder charge !!) and then of course the jurors concluded that Jodi formed a premeditation at some point after the attack began and therefore she is guilty of both. The state was erroneously allowed to use the felony murder rule as a vehicle to a first degree murder conviction.

              But what they are missing is that a felony murder is ONLY a murder that occurs in the course of a felony and is NOT PREMEDITATED, PERIOD !!!! At no point during a legitimate felony murder is there any premeditation. But what the jurors did was to mistakenly vote for both thinking that both charges were warranted. I believe that those 7 jurors felt justified in convicting Jodi on both bc at some point after the attack began the jurors concluded that she formed a premeditation to kill TA and therefore the Felony murder charge is justified as well as the 1st degree murder charge. This is error IMHO and the appellate courts will hopefully be reviewing this aspect.

              If this creative perversion of the murder rule (IMHO) is allowed to stand, then the state of AZ is setting an extremely dangerous PRECEDENT that will serve to deprive some defendants of their constitutional rights to a fair trial and deny them opportunities to be found guilty on a lesser degree of murder. You can not allow “assault” to serve as the predicate felony, the intended felony, and the murder committed in the course of burglary..this is NOT felony murder !!!

              it violates the merger rule and would destroy and obliterate the lesser degrees of murder.

              This is why it is not harmless.

              All IMHO

              • And although it probably doesn’t need repeating, the state’s theory of premeditation throughout the entire trial was the Jodi premeditated this weeks before the killing with the stolen gun from her grandfather, renting the car in a different town, the gas cans, the hair color, the supposed stealth drive through AZ, etc…All of which IMHO is just pure conjecture and speculation with NO EVIDENCE to back it up…

                (and for those of you howling right now, yes, Jodi did rent a car further south from her home to save money and get a better deal and her brother was with her and she used her own name and her own credit card !!! , and yes, she had gas cans which she borrowed from Darryl not trying to hide anything !!! , and yes, she had changed the color of her hair BEFORE SHE MOVED BACK TO CA !!!, and yes, her battery on her cell phone died!!! )

                And this is why if you were one of the 7 jurors and you voted for the felony murder charge then you were in fact rejecting the state’s theory of the premeditation…otherwise you never would have voted for the felony murder which is a murder which occurs in the course of a felony with NO premeditation…these 7 jurors obviously concluded that Jodi’s premeditation occurred after the attack began…and then mistakenly believed that they could vote for both bc both were warranted.

                If they had believed the state’s theory of premeditation then she is guilty of first degree premeditated murder, period !!! Felony murder has no role in it whatsoever…the seven jurors were confused bc the state IMHO wrongly applied the felony murder charge in this case in order to guarantee a first degree conviction.

                ERROR !!


                • And as regards to the gun theft from Jodi’s grandfather…NEVER ANY EVIDENCE TO SHOW THAT JODI HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THAT…a Yreka police detective testified that there had been many thefts in that area during that same time period…

                  just conjecture and speculation

                  SO CONGRATULATIONS, JURORS !!! You convicted Jodi on nothing more than speculation and conjecture..

                  SELF DEFENSE IS NOT A CRIME, GET IT????

            • Dwight, I agree that the gun belonged to travis for the simple fact that one of his email conversations with sky he expressed how he wanted to shoot himself in the head due to all his issues he was having with others.. Travis had alot of troubles! Didnt he lose $250.000 somewhere!??? Didnt he contemplate suicide?? He told sky in email that the stress/pressure was getting to him and felt like blowing his own head off?.. So, I think that was ta gun and nobody knew of it because in his mind he would one day take his own life! He was very weak / wicked and he knew it ! I truly believe Jodi is lucky to be alive cuz travis could of very easily turned this into a murder suicide !! FREE JODI!!! SELF DEFENSE IS NOT A CRIME

  9. Premeditation is not an element of felony murder. But that is not to say absence of premeditation is part of its definition. Here, for example, is Arizona’s definition of felony murder (A.2):

    13-1105. First degree murder; classification

    A. A person commits first degree murder if:

    1. Intending or knowing that the person’s conduct will cause death, the person causes the death of another person, including an unborn child, with premeditation or, as a result of causing the death of another person with premeditation, causes the death of an unborn child.

    2. Acting either alone or with one or more other persons the person commits or attempts to commit sexual conduct with a minor under section 13-1405, sexual assault under section 13-1406, molestation of a child under section 13-1410, terrorism under section 13-2308.01, marijuana offenses under section 13-3405, subsection A, paragraph 4, dangerous drug offenses under section 13-3407, subsection A, paragraphs 4 and 7, narcotics offenses under section 13-3408, subsection A, paragraph 7 that equal or exceed the statutory threshold amount for each offense or combination of offenses, involving or using minors in drug offenses under section 13-3409, drive by shooting under section 13-1209, kidnapping under section 13-1304, burglary under section 13-1506, 13-1507 or 13-1508, arson under section 13-1703 or 13-1704, robbery under section 13-1902, 13-1903 or 13-1904, escape under section 13-2503 or 13-2504, child abuse under section 13-3623, subsection A, paragraph 1 or unlawful flight from a pursuing law enforcement vehicle under section 28-622.01 and, in the course of and in furtherance of the offense or immediate flight from the offense, the person or another person causes the death of any person.

    3. Intending or knowing that the person’s conduct will cause death to a law enforcement officer, the person causes the death of a law enforcement officer who is in the line of duty.

    B. Homicide, as prescribed in subsection A, paragraph 2 of this section, requires no specific mental state other than what is required for the commission of any of the enumerated felonies.

    • Understood but there is a huge distinction..Felony murder is an intent to commit a felony and in the process of committing that felony a death occurs…

      Big difference between that and a premeditation to kill someone..

      Johnny intends to rob the local market and does but in the process he shoots the clerk who started to fight with him…Felony Murder

      Johnny intends to kill the clerk at the local market bc he cheated with his girlfriend..he kills him..1st degree premeditated murder….

      huge difference

      • the word premeditation doesn’t exist in the felony murder statute…but the word “intent” to commit a felony does…

      • Regarding Felony Murder…

        And the felony that the criminal intends to commit can not be a murder and must be separate and distinct from the murder that occurs in the course of committing that predicate felony…

        • Further regarding felony murder…

          When you allow the “assault” to qualify as the predicate felony in felony murder, then this wipes out and obliterates the distinction between first degreee and 2nd degree murder…you literally would have no more lesser degrees of murder…bc every murder involves assault and every murder would be a felony murder…..

    • “Convictions are often reversed because a prosecutor, either deliberately or recklessly, has violated the rules.”

      “The Commission on Prosecutorial Conduct is modeled after state commissions on judicial conduct, which exist in every state to review complaints of misconduct by judges and impose discipline.”

      Good article. Thank you my sweet sister.


    • Great article, Maria !! 🙂

      I vote for getting rid of the “harmless error” rule as well bc all it does is encourage corrupt prosecutors to play the odds that that they will get away with their egregious misconduct believing that they will be rescued by this rule….

      • Right ! It seems to me that loop hole widens with the Cops, Prosecutors, Judges and Private Prisons all in collusion for $.

        Fact.. Jodi should have been charged with manslaughter AND with her plea of self defense been sentenced to time served.

  10. Since I’ve been censored twice today, I just want it known to you all, I made comments to pam holt. I have not had anyone explain to me why it’s O.K. for anyone to intimate that Jodi is lying. It sets me seething when I’m accused of the responsibility of Carol Handy, Ali or others leaving. That’s redik. If they want to fight for their opinions let em. They just got over me trying to pigeon hole their opinions.
    I say, if you say someone else besides Jodi is responsible for ta’s death, then you are calling Jodi out or a liar. Now you can skirt it any way you want but without evidence you got nothing more than musings. Musings about how f*dup ta’s family and associates am/is/are/was/were MAY fill up the main page but it has ZERO bearing on Jodi’s testimony or wishes at this time. So what we have is everyone wants to add in their two cents with NO evidence. That two cents equals calling Jodi out, in my case today.
    I get over reading it, and it just seems like it boils down to the main page filler comments trumps JODI’S RIGHTS to be supported for her testimony. Who really gives a sht how f*ded up all ta’s friends are? That’s not evidence of anything. The friends set hormone,sadistic,brutalizer, sexist, MF ta,over the edge. So fricken what! He’s gone, and Jodi owned it. I wish she had not owned it, but she did, so I’m with Jodi and F the Handys AND ANYMORE that thinks Jodi should “bloom where she’s planted”

    • Hey there Johnm, I think you’re misunderstanding Pam’s point of view. You know that I too believe Jodi’s sworn testimony 100%. But I also – as Pam does – question the way travis ended up in the shower. If memory serves me correctly, Jodi NEVER said that she dragged travis down the hall and placed him in the shower. That was the prosecutor’s mumbo jumbo.

      As I have said in the past, we don’t know what went on AFTER Jodi left travis’ house and up to the day his so called friends found him. For all I know, someone else went into travis’ room, finished the job and put him in the shower. It’s all speculation – just like the state’s theory is…

      So yeah, I have to agree with Pam regarding how travis ended up in the shower.

      If you go back and read comments from 2013-14, there was a lot of discussion about the way travis was ‘set’ in the shower: a firefighter’s carry technique sets a person that way (a fireman’s carry or fireman’s lift is a technique allowing one person to carry another person without assistance, by placing the carried person across the shoulders of the carrier). To do so, it would need a very strong and very ‘big’ person. Jodi couldn’t pull that off.

      I think your heart is at the right place, defending Jodi’s testimony but we can’t be 100% what happened after Jodi left and for the remaining days before travis was found. If Jodi ever says that she dragged and put him in the shower herself, then I will rest my case. Until then, it’ll be another unanswered question (just like the smell of decay that nobody noticed for 5 days, the mysterious boot print that nobody care to bring up during the trial and so many other things that reek of reasonable doubt).


      • I guess you missed the intrruders part that pam discusses.. You fill in the blanks as you see fit, but that is NOT testimony either. If you want to ask Jodi how ta got in the shower, I’m sure she’ll give you a answer. I have MY answer.There was no one else. My cup holds water the same way.

  11. johnm et al:

    “I say, if you say someone else besides Jodi is responsible for ta’s death, then you are calling Jodi out or a liar.”

    I agree, however, Jodi may have lied when she said she killed Travis. She may not in fact know whether she did or not. Imagine you have told the truth yet no one believes you. Then you are convicted of something you did not do. All the while you are made out to be a pathological liar and you are sure that the court (and public) do not believe the truth you have told. You now have two options regarding sentencing. Do you

    (1) maintain the truth which the court and the public “know” is false and therefore incur more wrath for not only “committing” the crime, but “lying” about it.


    (2) go along with the court’s and the public’s lie in an attempt to mitigate further anger/wrath and reduce your sentence?

    Honestly, tell me what you would do – any of you in this group or anywhere else for that matter.

    In my own life, I would (and have) gone along with their lie(s) in order to reduce the punishment which is after all the most important thing – regaining my freedom as soon as possible. It is not my responsibility to maintain my innocence in hopes of possibly exposing the court’s dishonesty/crime. It is the court’s responsibility to be honest in the first place.

    It is the same reasoning you use when accepting a plea bargain where you agree to accept a guilty conviction for something you did not do in exchange for the surety of a lesser punishment /sentence.

    “… Who really gives a sht how f*ded up all ta’s friends are? That’s not evidence of anything.”

    I disagree. It is evidence of the pressure on Travis and the likelihood he would have been stressed and frustrated enough to “snap” when Jodi dropped the camera and attack her instigating her fight for her life (self-defense). Obviously Jodi’s knowledge of Travis’s aberrant behavior (physical abuse, pedophilia, etc…) and her ability to socially and legally blackmail him with it were probably the main source of his stress, but the pressure and interference of his so called friends was also a contributor.

    The jeopardy for Jodi possibly perjuring herself and claiming to have murdered Travis when she wasn’t sure is much less than that for Murder I. She was already looking at death at worst and LWOP at best, so she had nothing to lose if she perjured herself. She might have just tried to “roll the dice” and hope they would believe she was finally “admitting” to killing Travis in hopes the jury/judge would see it as the first step towards a “remorse” that she had been heretofore deemed incapable of feeling or showing even though she was in fact remorseful and you had to be comatose to not notice it during the trial.

    • It’s not our book to write in. We can surmise ad infintum but Jodi has the last word. At this point, Jodi had two opportunities to bail after her failed plea bargain. Both times in pro se Jodi chose to keep course. Now, you have your opinion, I choose Jodi’s, until such time as Jodi modifies her opinion, and I reserve the right, like everyone to alter mine. If no one toes the line for Jodi we are all questioning Jodi, and I don’t, so fill in your blanks and express yourself how you wish here, but I won’t relent standing up for Jodi’s testimony. Your attitude regarding the legal potentialities Jodi faced, are no different than anyones.

  12. Susan Sarandon & Dr. Phil Fight to Save Richard Glossip From Death Row – I apologize for going off topic, but this man is scheduled to be executed next month and Susan and Sister Helen are convinced of his innocence. He was convicted on the testimony of a 19-yr old in order to escape the death penalty himself. His daughter wrote a letter indicating her father’s guilt in this false testimony. Susan is only asking for a stay but the Governor says she is going to go ahead and carry out this barbarism.

    • Dr. Phil and Susan reported the shocking statistic that of the executions carried out the US, over 2% of them are carried out on innocent people, which amounts to hundreds every year.

      • Carol, the U.S. executed an average of about 40 people per year (which is 40 people too many) over the last 10 years; and 2 percent of that would only be about one innocent person per year. Why “hundreds” you say?

      • CC, what a terrible image of the US you Canadians must have! There have not been even 100 executions in the US in any single year since at least 1976. For example, there were 39 in 2013 and 35 in 2014. See statistics here: That is not to dispute the 2% figure, however, nor the seriousness of the problem of executing the innocent.

        • Sorry, Alan I must have got the time period wrong – but still even if it’s over years instead of one – they were still talking about more than two hundred people. The stats you provided do help, but I’m still stressed out about the innocent people that are receiving the ultimate punishment.

    • Carol,
      Thanks for posting this petition for Richard Glossip. I haven’t checked his case in any depth but what I have read about it is shocking. A guy confesses to the murder. The confessed killer avoids the death penalty by saying the murder was Glossip’s idea. So they put Glossip on death row (after 2 trials) on the killer’s word. If there was any real evidence against Glossip, I haven’t seen it. He’s to be executed 2 weeks from today on September 16, 2015. Governor Mary Fallin seems determined to go ahead with the execution.

      • I don’t know how that governor can disregard the letter the confessed killer wrote to his daughter expressing his regret without any investigation. It’s just plain wrong!!

  13. I’ve added a new page to the Reasonable Doubt site. It’s linked off the page entitled “Travis’ Documented History of Abusive Behavior” ( I added to this page the following quotes from Sky to Travis:

    “Women are fragile, and you have shattered a lot of them”.

    “When she told me what you were saying, I did say, ‘That isn’t right. It’s abusive. He is not nice to girls. He is mean, and if he is talking to you like this now, it would be worse when you get married, and you have kids to think about'”.

    Immediately after these new quotes I provide the link to the source, namely the full email exchange between Travis and the Hughes on 1/29/07 and 1/31/07.

        • From 1/31/07 – C.S. Hughes email to Travis:

          “First of all lets look at what I know about the T and his lady situation. And know that this is not being critical, its just stating the facts.

          *In the 5 years I have known you, you have never committed to one woman, yet you have had dozens of woman who would have loved just that.

          *In those 5 years, the one constant has been Deanna. But she has been in a constant state of I don’t even know what since I have known her. I have heard you tell her you love her on many occasions, yet there is no commitment, yet the relationship, whatever it is, continues.

          *Dude, again, not being critical, but you are the biggest flirt this side of the Mississippi. I don’t know anyone else that trumps your flirting ability. You say it yourself, “The T-dogg pulls chicks.”

          And you do. I have never before gotten involved in your love life, but it has both saddened me and concerned me how you have hooked up with the ladies and gotten into their hearts only to prove disinterested in the end. But this is none of my business. So I never said anything, I just laughed because the emotional turmoil these girls go through aside, it is kind of funny. : )

          So this was the context that our conversation with Jodi was held. I just thought she was another girl on your speed dial. I had no idea your feelings for her ran so deep. None of what I did was justified, but had I known you were seriously interested in her, I would have never said the things I said. I really, really believed that she was your next victim and for her benefit and yours, I was doing all that I could to get her to move on.

          T-dogg, you add all that up … and what would you think? My thoughts were that this was just another girl that you were playing with and who would end up heart broken like so many others. For example … Brandi. She was another girl that you called to flirt with recently. She was going to NY with friends. You call her in the middle of the night and talk her into going to Sup Saturday which she did, and you didn’t even throw her a bone. Now that’s funny and all, until that girl is sitting in your living room confused as all hell, pouring her heart out to you, expressing her love for the guy who when you add it all up, in m mind anyway, couldn’t give a rat’s about her. Now I have since learned that you do give a rat’s about Jodi, but with all that you had given us, I had no way to tell. So yes, I did tell her to get out quick. We did cross the line. I don’t know why I did it. I’ve never done it before, with all the girls you’ve left spell bound and depressed, why now? I guess because she was here in my home. I could look in her eyes, and see perfect love for you mixed with pain and confusion. I guess I just snapped.”

          • And why ever would C.S. Hughes think that women “in turmoil” and “confused” is funny.

            You can know who a person is by what he laughs at.

            • Actually, to be fair to Chris, what he actually said was “I just laughed because, the emotional turmoil these girls go through *aside*, it is kind of funny.” It’s vague but he seems to be saying that if we set the emotional turmoil *aside*, then it’s kinda funny. I don’t agree that any of it is funny but I don’t think he meant that the emotional turmoil is funny.

              But what really sets me back on my heels is his dismissal of abuse, sugar-coating it with a euphemistic phrase, namely that Travis is just a little “rough around the edges”. I’m so reminded of DeMarte’s reference to T.’s abusive language as merely “unhealthy communication patterns”. Bullshit! Abuse is abuse no matter what you want to call it.

              • Dr. Typo was used to exaggerate the damage to the exterior of TA’s brain and Dr. Totdoc was used to minimize the interior damage – both death-qualified doctors in a death-qualified state.

                I have never heard a single abused woman who didn’t claim that the emotional abuse was worse than the physical.

    • As always, GREAT JOB JUSTUS!!!!!! Thank you for all of your endless work to help get the REAL TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH OUT FOR THE WORLD TO READ !!!!!

  14. Reading all the e-mails between travis and the hughes’ it only becomes clearer of the PIG travis was.

    He used, manipulated, abused, took advantage of and then stomped on the hearts of all women that he led on. I’m guessing it was his M.O. to fill his disgusting ego that he was ‘THE MAN’…. uhmmm… NEWS FLASH: That doesn’t make him a man; it makes him a PIG, a dick and a piece of shit, in my book… a dead one, that is.

    I’m sure that all those women (that he broke their hearts) are silently happy. I just wish they’d step up and speak about his true colors.

    On behalf of all women that respect themselves and were saved by Jodi’s action from being travis’ next ‘game’: THANK YOU JODI.

    Karma really is a bitch… not even sweet-talkers can get away from her grip 😉

    As for the hughes? No wonder they got hold of travis’ computer and e-mail accounts: they wanted to delete all those e-mails (make sure none of them were saved on the hard drive). How the hell would they have made money off a book if those e-mails were brought into evidence? I hope they can sleep well at night knowing that they were part of the reason an abused woman got life for defending herself… Was it worth it HUGHES??? I’m glad their kids are boys. Now they’re sure that they won’t stumble upon a ‘travis’ in their lives as adults… but there are always the female travis’ around… just sayin’.

    SKY HUGHES: You are a disgrace to all females. You’re a fucking cunt. The end.

    • BAM BABY !!

      Why the hell was all these emails allowed to be hidden from the criminal trial jury?? Really?? Hearsay?? There was hearsay allowed throughout the stinking trial what with the allegation that Jodi stole a gun from her grandfather and all the rest of it that was put out there for the jury to swallow without ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE…JUST SPECULATION AND CONJECTURE !!! Then you had Dr. Speculator and Equivocator bringing up the rear !!! LOL !!!!

      But these emails went directly to the character of TA…they were completely relevant to show the jury who TA really was from his very best friends who knew him well and knew of specific details of things he had done to other women !!!!

    • Wow Pandora !!!! Tell it like it is Sister. – I agree with 100 % of what you said. Shame on the Hughes’s shame on them both. – I do hope that somehow someway these emails can make it into her appeal. This Bastard needs to be exposed for who and what he was.

  15. t-dog….as in THE DOG…..cause he acted like one. No matter how they cry n scream what a great one he was his truth will set him free……………going………………….DOWN. hotter then az. and just as evil! do the USES own Az. or just justice in Az.? How did they get EVIDENCE to DESTROY and why…$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. JUST who handed it over to them….AMAZING what all We know that the dog really was a dog. his very own EVIL words prove his EVIL…only the EVIL or IDIOTS or …..BOTH would ever defend such actions. Now LDS has a real problem……they were on the wrong side and must take blame for that SHOWTRIAL….own it. As I was headed to the mailbox ( LOL ) I saw the bishop headed my way and I would have given him a nod….but like a fool he turned his head back 3 fucking times pretending not to see me…for FUCKS sake man I.m 6,2 an 225 lbs and I,m called GRIZ for a good reason……..or maybe it was the shame he felt for wanting an innocent put to death…after all they (LDS) must protect the church……Oh LORD smite that idiot or just give him the runs as he,s got a lot of baggage…him and his so called church…well maybe it,s not the church,s fault…..most if not all have creeps running em….MEN! I,ve been asked do I fear the cult of t-dog….DUH!…a GRIZ fearing a dog…LOL! I would have loved to have t-dog in my unit (recon) we always needed a point…….keep your head down boy…oh I forgot he did that…opps! Hate him I hate that he was a him…this is the type that makes ALL men look bad. GRIZ…out.

  16. RRM: I saw your post and may send you a pseudonymous email if you put up an address in your group. I have had bad luck recently with FB aliases, though I guess that could change.

    • Yes, I agree. Gagic’s piece was the first thing I read that clarified the issue for me. It’s still excellent after all this time.

    • However, there is also a very interesting post that discusses a lot of the Arizona case law on felony murder: If you are interested in the FM charge, to make up your mind you should read that, as well as the posts it is responding to, and then read the opinions themselves in the cases mentioned. And, as always, I recommend the two textbooks/treatises by Wayne LaFave: CRIMINAL LAW and CRIMINAL PROCEDURE, available in any law library.

  17. Has anyone noticed the story about the AZ governor being upset over people using her picture for advertising purposes on the internet? Wonder how she would feel if people wrongly accused and convicted her of defending herself from a known abuser? I don’t know, it just made me wonder…….

  18. Thanks R. Love….and as for the ex. gov. that,s being a two face…a very common illness in az….and speaking of two faces what was up with that so called det.and that look of ….Hell did I just messa myself….oh tiny juan .But then We see that oh so SICK grin…or was he thinking? I can,t believe we got away with it…really! Well they know how to stick to a story don,t they…and all for the win at any cost…..FOR NOW…THANKS appeals judge for your truth…JODY,S(duh!) guilt was never in DOUBT….now that is a …WTF…moment..HELL NO BIAS in az. My how they can,t hide their hate and with that their INJUSTICE…..hope to see all in a FED.court… to work for JODI and JUSTICE. GRIZ out.

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