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Martinez: losing the jury, the plot and the trial…

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Yesterday afternoon, we were treated yet again to another piss poor showboating display of prosecutorial cluelessness by Martinez. In full knowledge that he lost this case a long while ago… and not withstanding his antics with the camera, the autopsy picture stunt and his deliberate withholding of evidence from the defense… his revised strategy now appears to be based around a Wayne Dyer self-help book and the meaning of the word “compassion” (as defined by Websters dictionary).

He also proceeded (again) to question Dr Richard Samuels’ memory problems and his ethics. I think the only person in this scenario with memory issues & ethical problems is Martinez himself… right?

But in the midst of all this, whatever happened to Martinez trying to prove his BS-riddled & overcharged pre meditated murder & felony murder charges in this trial?

For Martinez, that has now become a major issue.

And it’s an issue because it AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN.

He’s lost the jury… he’s lost the plot… and he’s lost the trial. Plain & simple.

Here’s a quote from Vladimir Gagic’s excellent post last week:

“As far as I am concerned, the only issue in the Jodi Arias trial is has the government proven premeditation. That of course, is important because if the government has not proven premeditation, they cannot convict her of murder in the first degree and thus the death penalty is off the table. And while the government has also alleged murder in the first degree by way of felony-murder, that allegation is so specious as not to even warrant a response.

The government has not proven premeditation, and in fact, could not do so under any circumstances. Without direct evidence, either a confession by Ms. Arias that she intended to kill Mr. Alexander, as in “I wanted to kill to him”, or an overt act such as hiring a hit man or waiting in wait in ambush, the government cannot prove premeditation beyond a reasonable doubt. Note that I am not saying she did not intend to kill him or that there is not very good reason to suspect that she intended to kill him, just that the government will not be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. And that has been clear since day one. Someone asked me on twitter a question along the lines of “she lied so she doesn’t get the death penalty?”. My answer, yes, exactly right. To paraphrase Lt. Kaffee from a “Few Good Men”, it doesn’t matter what we know; it only matters what we can prove.

Instead of proving premeditation with direct evidence, the government is trying to do so with circumstantial evidence. So far the attempt has been, with the most charitable interpretation possible, pathetic. While the law does not recognize a distinction between direct and circumstantial evidence, there is a jury instruction that says exactly that, the inference the government wishes the jury to draw from the circumstantial evidence is, dare I say, comically lacking.”

So Forget all the state’s smokescreen BS about gas cans, Walmart receipts & hair dye. What matters is THE EVIDENCE. Some of the more important evidence we have to date are TA’s rape specific text messages – and his 12 year old girl bondage & orgasm fantasies… we’ve seen and heard those already.

As Jose Baez said on last week’s HLN “bathroom re-enactment” show…

“The physical evidence does not lie”

Ain’t that the truth…

Here’s the clip featuring Jose with his view on the order of events:

[hdplay id=127 width=500 height=300]

And here’s a secondary clip of Jose from the end of the program:

[hdplay id=128 width=500 height=300]

And by the way… Jose Baez turned George Anthony inside out on the stand countless times, without ever resorting to bellowing or doing the Harlem Shake.

As for the Travis-Towners & TA fans out there, all they’re really concerned about is hating, retribution & vengeance. “Justice” doesn’t come into it. It never has. That’s not what they’re after.

Take yesterday for example… where 2 trial observers were thrown out of the courtroom after stating multiple times that they wished “Jodi were dead.”. Apparently one of Jodi’s family members complained and security removed the two women.

But at the end of the day… and just a few weeks from now after the “Jodi Arias Reality TV Show” is over, and the relevant dust has finally settled on this trial and the specially built studio sets, mock courtrooms, faux jurors & cardboard bathroom reconstructions… it’ll be largely remembered as the trial Martinez lost. It happens sometimes when you overcharge a case without any conclusive evidence.

Just ask Jeff Ashton… he knows that only too well.

Like I’ve said before…

Armed with very little aside assumption, speculation, hearsay & hot air, it’s ultimately gonna come down to Jodi’s word against Martinez’. And despite the valiant repeated efforts of Martinez to turn this into an ego-driven pissing match — there’s just no way all 12 jurors are gonna be convinced beyond and to the exclusion of all reasonable doubt. He knows that already. He’s known it for a long while. So have we. So has everyone else. Give it up FFS.

So let’s not stress too much over the verdict. Why? Because it’s already been decided. It’s just gonna be a little while longer before it’s “officially” announced.

And if you’re still getting worked up & stressed out every day over NG and her ongoing BS coverage, I have a simple solution for you. Stop watching her. Simple as that. Just shut it out, remove yourself from all negativity completely and quit wasting your energy… whether it’s NG, JVM, VP, some other website, some haters’ comments or anything else. The same applies. Rise above it all.

Stay positive and keep the faith, as always.

Remember… We are Team Jodi – and WE WILL BE VICTORIOUS.

You can mark my words on that.

Have a great Friday!

Onwards…

SJ
Team Jodi

763 Comments

  1. SJ – thank you. Amazing post and positive thoughts.

    Hope all have a peaceful weekend – and Jodi you are in my thoughts and prayers.

  2. Haven’t people learned *anything* from the Casey Anthony trial? I fell into the Casey is guilty vortex myself. I was angry and shocked when she was acquitted of all major charges. I hated Jose Baez and the defense team. I was where the Jodi haters are now only I was open minded enough to learn more about it.
    Then something crazy happened. i read both Jeff Ashton’s and then Jose Baez’s book and that completely changed my opinion on that trial. Jose Baez was David and Jeff Ashton was Goliath. Jose Baez made so much more sense than Ashton it was ridiculous. The jurors made the right call and I will apologize to them here for the thoughts I had toward them.
    Hopefully the jurors in Jodi’s trial are seeing past all of Little Troll Juan Martinez’s bullshit nastiness and disrespectful style. I despise that SOB.

      • Yes I enjoyed the book as well, although I have to confess I have not read the book Mr Ashton wrote, because from what I had seen of him in trial and his appearances on TV.
        I have just finished another great book this week ” long week home” by Laura Caldwell about Jovan Mosely who made a wrongful/forced confession and his trial.

        http://vimeo.com/21652543

    • Thank-you, thank-you, that is exactly what happened to me. The thought that a jury would get harassed like the Anthony jury did is disturbing on so many levels, I felt so sorry for them, and what is really scary is I can’t believe somebody didn’t harm one of the jurors, and someone hasn’t hurt Casey. The foaming at the mouth bunch is alive and well in this trial also.

    • 48 Hours pretty much called it when their mock jury acquitted her. The reason is obvious: the prosecution never could prove how Caylee Anthony died.

      When you don’t even know something as simple as that, how in the hell can you even prosecute a case, much less charge somebody with a capital crime?

  3. I haven’t followed the Arias trial, but I did hear a little of it yesterday — the part where the defense attorney mentioned the victim called Arias a “whore, a slut and a three-hole wonder.”

    Believe me, still today in much of Arizona, had Alexander said that to a woman and she shot him, cut him into little pieces and ate his liver the charge wouldn’t be much more than Misdemeanor Homicide at most.

    In Utah too, perhaps especially in Utah, but in a lot of the West, were Arias from an old LDS family and the victim an out-of-state, eight-dollar-an-hour non-Mormon – say, Jewish, Moslem, or (gulp) Godless, and he treated her the way he did, a deputy sheriff would have gone over and shot him.

    Justice, I guess, has always been situational and based on who you are and when, and Arias is penniless, powerless and uneducated, so the first-degree charge isn’t any surprise. She shouldn’t expect the same soft treatment under the law that Laura Bush got when she and a boyfriend had words and Laura drove her car over him. (Imagine what a Texas lady like Laura would have done to him had he called her “a three-hole wonder.”)

    I guess as that one spectator demonstrated a couple days ago, seeing our legal system in action is liable to bring up your lunch.

    • I’ve reread your comment several times and, as a Jew, I’m trying to ascertain how much of it is tongue-in-cheek. Meh. Probably not worth my time.

      • I’m going to agree (with Jamsion)… Is there something wrong with being a Jew, a Muslim, or an Atheist? And as for someone who doesn’t follow the trial it’s funny that you know that someone threw up 2 days ago (directed at Ken).

        • I think the feeling now is, at least to non-believers like Sam Harris, that the term “atheist” is negative and implies there’s something abnormal about not believing in a god — A = not, Theist = believing in a god, so I used “Godless” in an ironic sense.

          And yes, in the view of the LDS church there is something very wrong about being Jewish or Moslem.

          A few days ago murdered Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl (Jewish while alive) was baptized posthumously as a Mormon in order to save his soul. They mean well (smiley face.)

          • Why does the LDS insist on baptizing dead ppl? And only some rather than all? I say it could have to do with the REASON the deaths occurred in the first place. (like salvation after the favor of death by blood atonement) Obviously, the publicized cause for their deaths will be shown in court as relative to a ‘lone suspect, accused and alleged to be the perpetrator’ who will find NOTHING (available or uncovered by investigation) to even suggest their innocence or the involvement of anyone else to the crime. Why else would multitudes of young men be sent out on their missions?…you can never tell where they are…and they would die to hide the covert actions of the Danites, through whom their right of authority is enforced. [For near 100 years, polygamy took the burden of adultery off the shoulders of the men and placed women in the position equal to livestock]

          • Funny Mormon’s would not like Muslims as the religions really are similar in many ways. I have read Mormon’s being described as An American version of Muslim religion an after reading a lot about the religion how it was formed an the time it was formed I almost agree.

            • Rhonda
              You are right very similar Mohammed and Joseph Smith were both pedophiles
              Modern Mohammedanism has its Mecca at Salt Lake… Clearly the Koran was Joseph Smith’s model, so closely followed as to exclude even the poor pretension of originality in his foul ‘revelations.’ ” (The Women of Mormonism, Frances E. Willard, 1882, Introduction,
              The followers of Muhammad and Joseph Smith both killed innocent “infidel” on the same date of 9/11. On September 11, 1857, Mormon militia massacred about 140 men, women and children under the authority of Brigham Young. However 17 very young children were spared and adopted into Mormon families. They were in fact sold to the highest Mormon family bidder and resold and traded many times afterwords. This event is called “The Mountain Meadows” massacre. Mormon leaders engaged in a deliberate rewriting of history to deny they were behind the murders. On September 11, 2001 Muhammad’s followers, using the Koran as a guide, sent two airplanes into the World Trade Center killing 3000 innocent men, women and children. Muslims today have a PhD in rewriting history and preach in the mosques that Jews were actually driving the planes, not Muslim terrorists.Both were visited by an angel. Joseph Smith was visited by the angel “Moroni” and Muhammad by Gabriel. Galatians 1:6-9 says, “I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you, and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed.”

              http://www.bible.ca/islam/islamic-mormonism-similarities.htm

              • Olivero,

                It is offensive to call Mohammed a pedophile. He was not one. I know the media has trashed Islam, but I think there is one thing we can all agree on, especially based on this case, you cannot trust the media.

                • I think it is the AGE of woman they decide is ok to mate with is what makes people consider them pedophiles. ? I do see a lot of the same ways tho both were started and maybe Joseph Smith read the Koran even to get some ideas. I know both were long after Jesus was here an long after the end of the actual Bible which states Not to Add or Take away.

                  Smith took 30 wives, one a 14-year-old. He planned unsuccessfully to marry a 12-year-old. Mohammed had planned to marry a baby, but died as a result of an attempted poisoning before he could do so. The two men were false prophets, they created their own alleged revelations and they were pedophiles. History does repeat itself.

                • This is not debatable to any Religious Scholar his wife who was 6 years old suffered from mental illness, one cannot deny the Misogyny with Muslims, They use the same phony excuse oh those are Fundamentalist. The Religion was enforced and those who did not follow this Religion were taxed heavily and persecuted. Many people Defended NAZIS National Socialism, as Eisenhower wrote in his Memoirs that the German People would follow Hitler to Hell. Telling the truth is healthy protecting an unhealthy Cult Leader is not. This is not based on the Media but Religious Scholars. Joseph Smith was a pedophile that’s true many Mormons do not debate that.

              • This topic is highly debated among Muslims and Non-Muslims scholars, whether Islam allows Pedophilia or not? We know one thing beyond the shadow of doubt that Muhammad the Prophet of Islam, married Aisha when she was just 6 years old. There are dozens of narration from canonical scriptures of Islam, which proves the above statement. Even Aisha herself accepted that when she was married to Muhammad, she was just 6 years old, and when he (Muhammad) consummated her (Aisha) she was just 9 years old. This is an example of pedophilia, by a man who is worshiped by Muslims
                These rulings, commands, and preaching are inhumane, and against healthy minded people. Any rational being would never accept such a religion which authorizes Pedophilia, and commands to follow a pedophile Prophet. The more people become aware of these facts about Islam, the more nails are added to coffin of Islam. Now its time for Muslims to remove the curtains of blind love for Muhammad and realize that whom they are following as a messenger of God, in reality was a man who suffered from serious psychiatric disorders, and had sex with a child of 9 years, while himself being of 53.Muslims till date practice pedophilia as its is allowed/obligatory for them, and this crime can only end with the end of Islam.

          • This is true, Ken. My daughter went to a mormon girls camp for five days. (We lived in a new town, all my neighbors were mormon so invited my children to go to their after-school groups. I allowed it in order to make friends and even considered joining at the time; until after this camp.) One of the things I did not like, and which also offended a few of her friends who went, was that at one point they made up skits and played them out on stage. The “counselors” who were leading the group did devoted skits to “cutting down” other religions including Catholism, Judaism, Christianity and Buddhism. I only heard about this because my friends’ children who went were actually Catholic and found this offensive so reported it to their mom.

      • I don’t think it’s tongue-in-cheek, to me, he is pointing out locational prejudices that still remain in our country. It all depends on who you are, where you are, whether or not you get prosecuted and what charges you will face. It is does not go according to the facts.

      • Sorry, no offense meant at all, and I can’t see how any could be taken. Well, I guess maybe some Mormons could take offense, and I apologize for that.

        Arias was not Mormon — although she joined the church — and my point is, had positions been reversed, had she been from an old Mormon family and Alexander the outsider, the victim’s behavior would not have been tolerated. I used Jewish, Moslem and Godless because those beliefs are further from Mormonism than are, at least by Mormon thinking, Christian denominations.

        The Mormons feel they are Christian. Some Christian sects, on the other hand, say they are not, so I assume the fathers of the Church of the LSD would be more tolerant of a daughter dating a Christian — at least for a short time until he could convert — than they would a Jewish, Moslem or Non-believing boyfriend.

        I guess I could have used “Pagan, Shinto or Hindu” which are even further from Mormonism than Judaism or Islam. Maybe “Taoist, Maoist or Hippie” would have been even a better contrast to the teaching of Prophet Joseph.

          • Yeah, however she’s a new Mormon — a very new Mormon — and that doesn’t count for much.

            The LDS puts a great deal of importance on how long a family (and I mean counting by generations) has been in the church and how much the family has contributed, and not just in money. At this stage, you can be sure that mostly what Arias has contributed, from the Mormon point of view, is embarrassing publicity.

            It will be very, very surprising if she is still in the church when this is over. It is easy to join the Mormon church and even easier to be excommunicated. Indeed, early on Joseph Smith excommunicated a number of those who helped him found the church.

            Unless you’re privy to secret deliberation of the chosen few at the top of the LDS hierarchy it would be risky to say at this point she is in FACT a member. I’m guessing that as far as the church is concerned, whether it has yet been announced or ever will be, she is in FACT a former member.

            • Ken,

              Jodi has been confirmed a member of the church and as such she has all rights, privileges and opportunities afforded to all members. While I am not claiming to be anything special, I belong to an “Old Mormon Family” and I can absolutely assure you, your opinion is incorrect and outdated. Miss Arias has not been convicted by any judicial system nor any Authority within the church and as I can presume you are not a jury member (as if you were you would not be here discussing anything, as you would be following the law), and I have no basis as to your membership in the church as I do not make general assumptions as you have attempted to de here, you should not be assuming her guilt or innocence for any party. Since you are making vast generalizations and incorrect assumptions all over the place, I would suggest you do some further investigating on all sides before making any farther statements or trying to speak on behalf of the church or any of its members.

              • Huh? I didn’t make any assumptions about innocence or guilt.

                I wouldn’t mind being a juror (Just imagine the prosecutor’s face when the verdict was read, heh-heh.) But I’m not.

                And I certainly can’t yet speak for any Mormons, although as with Pearl, there’s always a chance I could be saved after I’m dead and have lots to say then.

                As for Arias’ standing with the LDS church, let’s wait a little and see how that goes. I’m guessing if she’s able to get out of this jam alive her next faith will be Sokka Gakkai. Mine would be.

                • Ken,

                  Jodi receives visits from an older LDS member who reads scripture with her and prays with her. That tells that she has not been shunned by church.

            • Yep that is exactly what others have been through a CONVERT is not as WORTHY to marry either. But a Established woman within the LDS would hold a HIGHER GROUND for Travis within that CHURCH is like a ladder on going up in that church the better breeding stock you marry the better you will do. Too bad Jodi did not read up on all this before agreeing to join an be Baptized she would have had some doubt I am sure.

            • Ken you said this…”At this stage, you can be sure that mostly what Arias has contributed, from the Mormon point of view, is embarrassing publicity.”

              If it hadn’t been Jodi at Travis’ house that day….eventually it would have been another gullible Mormon girl to fall into Travis’ charismatic charm…

              Marie Hall and the others should count their blessings that they aren’t the ones that “has contributed from the Mormon point of view, is embarrassing publicity”…

              If anyone has been an embarrassment to the Mormon faith…Travis should be held accountable even posthumous…

          • It looks as Ken Nari is pointing that TA is kind of “junior” mormon. Probably the best thing for JA would be to smell the flowers on the other side of the tempel/fence. She should distance herself from everything that reminds her of a black, disturbed past.

        • I thought your first post was offensive, but as I read I gained a better understanding of your point of view. However, I do not believe that name calling, no matter how vulgar, is ever grounds for violence.

          Side note: As a Buddahist, I was surprised to see you group Taoists & Maoists with Hippies. Although, we are all pretty mellow.

          • Don’t add Hippy…it too is not a religion; like Mormonism…better re-classify and educate..FLDS, LDS and Scientology are CULTS but, Hippy-ism is a SOCIAL and CULTURAL
            CHOICE LOL

          • Misty, agree. There’s never any reason for violence (except for defense from violence.) Violence solves nothing and only brings more violence.

            I was pointing out that the way the U.S. legal system punishes violence varies according to social class, and that the primary reason Arias is facing the death penalty is because she has no access to the real power structure.

            Believe me, if the defense could somehow get Dick Cheney to the stand you would see a very polite, obsequious, subdued and highly apologetic cross-examination by the prosecutor. It’s easy to bully and humiliate the downtrodden.

            And just for fun, let’s try to imagine for a moment where this case might have gone had the victim been involved with the former VP’s daughter instead of Arias. (Was there even a police investigation when Cheney shot a man in the face?)

            Well, I might as well admit it, I’m just a Maoist hippy.

    • I heard earlier this morning that the defense has spent over $800,000 on trying to save her. I was a little blown away because she IS penniless, but that just goes to show how many people support because you know the state didn’t give her that money.

      I didn’t follow the trial closely either until I heard the interview with her and she talked about going to see what’s his face hours after Travis died. That’s what pulled me in. I was like- how on earth could she do that, there has to be way more to this. As crazy as that seemed to me at the time it has been the last thing on my mind after everything else that has come out lol.

      Yes she definitely made some mistakes but she has been in jail long enough. I got married to my husband shortly before she was arrested. I feel like I’ve been married longer than I’ve been alive and it’s hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that she has been in jail that long, so to me that’s long enough.

        • I apologize then. I assumed that they didn’t because I asked a few days ago why the jury was not sequestered and someone on here said because the county is broke.

          • The sequestering of the Jury is a legal motion, not the state financial.
            There was a motion to sequester the jury (shown in the court docs) , but it must have been denied. I don’t know why , but maybe they didn’t know at the time that the case would attract the massive media attention — but that’s just speculation. (good grief .. i just said speculation, this trial has gone on toooo long)

        • I am so afraid she will be found guilty On GMA this morning said he did not believe there was any chance that she would not be. I thought alot of the jury questions were very sarcastic toward Dr, Richard. This is my first time posting and I like some of you cannot believe that anyone could not be totally disgusted with Martinez, he is the worst I have ever seen and I don’t understand how a judge can allow for a da to treat witnesses the way he does. I think TA treated Jodi horrible and being a woman who has been abused by a man I find it hard to accept how his friends are on the tv shows saying what a wonderful man he was after hearing the audio of him talking to her. I also donot understand how any judge would not sequester a jury in a high profile trial knowing the HLN network is reporting always horrific information about the defendant. That is not a fair trial–and you know some of those jurors will watch some of that crap. The justce system is a joke with people like Martinez and making this a death penalty case on the first place,
          I wish Jose Baez was Jodi’s attorney

          • I hear you, Louise. As far as his friends believing… my abuser’s friends thought he was the nicest guy and I was the abuser. I didn’t know at the time he spent years not only grooming me for abuse but grooming family and friends into believing the nice guy part. I honestly feel they do this out of fear that one day they will get caught so it is a kind of back-up. They have believed he is good for so long – and followed him; listened to his speeches, followed him as an elder of the church, and if you tell them they have been following/listening to the wrong guy all these years, then you shatter their world. They feel like they have been duped, too, so now, their defense is to not hear the truth even when it is right in front of them. You wouldn’t believe what people from hater sites have emailed me when I say the Travis had problems; rape is a fantasy of a lot of women, women in strip clubs often dress as little girls, if she didn’t want to be treated that way she would have left.

            Our society is not what we want to believe. Women may be able to work and vote – but God forbid, don’t let a man abuse you because if you do, YOU are the one who should die for the man is just doing what is in his nature. (sarcasm)

            • Wow Cindy, so much I relate to … the smear campaign against me, everyone thinking he was the nice guy … and the end part. We’ve come a long way as women, but we have so much further to go. One of the things that bothers me so much is that it’s apparently still okay for a man to sleep around and experiment before he gets married. But a woman who has sex before marriage is still a slut and a whore.

              • Also Abused – so sorry that you have had to deal with being abused. It took years of therapy for me to understand what happened. But the initial shock of “I’m the bad guy?” took a toll on me. The smear campaign (excellent choice of words, btw) is typical of all abusers – preemptive strike for when they are caught. I believe TA was doing this the whole time. Unfortunately, Jodi did not even realize she was being abused and probably would have allowed it to go on (I did for 14 years!) had this horrible situation not happened.

                I pray that someone on the jury understands the nature of abuse from both the victim and abuser’s side. Only then can you recognize the whole picture, which needs to be done before progress for victims is made.

                • EXCELLENT post Cindy. And I’m soooo sorry also that you were abused. It affects soooooo many women, but yet, it’s a “dirty word” to the general public. I’ve been hushed so many times. Apparently, it makes people uncomfortable to hear about. (UGH!)

                  13 years for me (10 married to him). I didn’t realize during the 3 years before we married, just like Jodi. That’s why I always say, she’s me, and I’m her. Our stories may vary in the details, but we’re basically all telling the same story. It’s as if we were all with the same men.

                  Smear campaign is something I learned about on FB walls about narcissists and sociopaths. It’s truly uncanny how similar their tactics are. It’s as if they have a rule book or something.

              • Yes same here my abusive ex- husband was a deacon in our church and no one believed me when I left due to the abuse. They said they would forgive me if I went back and all told me I was going to hell for leaving him. I met him in church and he too spent many years slowly over time controlling me. Everyone but my family thought he was this amazing giving person and talked like he was a saint. I also think I was some type of “cover” wife to hide his true sexual nature which I will not go into. So I know what it is like not to be able to confide to anyone about the abuse. They didn’t believe me at the end because I had no “proof” other than my own word.

                • AJ – I’m so sorry what you went through. None of us should have to endure that – yet I know that many still are, right now, as we speak.

                  And I am sorry to harp on about this but I believe it is central to the case and a grossly misunderstood subject.

                  People think Jodi is lying about the abuse (as was I, as were you, according to outsiders of the relationship). That is the ‘normal’ thinking; we are lying – or we are exaggerating – or we are just plain, old mean. They do not understand the abuser grooms his friends to love him as much as he grooms the victim to do what he desires; probably without even realizing it.

                  But the problem with that, and this entire case, is that sexual perversion has become the “norm.” Pornography is okay, fantasizing about rape is okay, imagining your sexual partner is a child is okay – everything is okay because it is just fantasy. You see that everyday on the pro-TA sites; “he was just being a man” or “guys have needs.” This lie has taken over with the advancement of modern technology; sex is all over t.v. and internet and it’s okay as long as both adults are (or at least seem to be) consenting.

                  The problem is; the sex acts and behavior is usually not consensual. The ‘victims’ are ‘victims’ because society around us tells us this behavior is okay; we are the ‘off’ ones for not understanding it. So we try to make the partners happy by doing what we think we are supposed to do. We are being ‘good wives’ or partners or girlfriends. What therapists (along with victims as well as those addicted) are learning now is that this type of behavior only feeds the “beast” of sexual addiction. The more they see/feel/encounter, the angrier they get. An addict does not like that part of him/her self so the anger oftentimes is taken out on the partner. This is where a couple of things happen; abuse of the partner or spouse, rape, or drug abuse may even enter the picture. Either way – the behavior escalates for the worse.

                  The road to understanding this type of abuse (or that it even exists) is a long way off. The abuse is not an outright hit, black eye, or public screaming. The abuse is a long, drawn out type of brainwashing (or at least an attempt to in some cases). From the outside, it only looks like two kinky, consenting adults; much like a young girl who is kidnapped and ends up as a stripper or hooker. She is a victim – albeit her abuse has been taken to the extreme. But it’s the same thing; you get brainwashed or b.s.’d into thinking that sick behavior (rape, child fantasies) is normal and you are not (everybody does it, what’s wrong with you?). I think that’s why Jodi would talk to TA on the phone like she did. She even said she desired the attention and the extremely nice way he made her feel (special, like a goddess, etc.) right before they had sex and sometimes right after sex. That’s how a pimp trains his hooker to stay loyal to him, btw.

                  Sorry for the rant – but I truly believe this is a case where the one who died was actually an abuser and the one who lived was a victim. It should not have happened – but if sexual abuse became more spoken about, more women may see it for what it is and have an easier time walking away.

                • Gosh AJ, I’m so sorry. What an awful thing to have to go through. I’m so glad you got out, girl. That’s all I keep saying: at least, we got out alive. They’re all sexual deviants — all these abusers. It’s sick!

                • Exactly! I was reading a book this morning talking of abuse and the victim always isolates themselves. Friends are a thing of the past. You withdraw into that “safe” cocoon where everything is ok. Just a fantasy!

                • Sissy, I’m not certain that we isolate ourselves. I believe the abuser isolates us, but in an insidious manner. For example, my ex initially encouraged my friendships — and I had many. But, over time, he began to “point out” to me why certain of my friends were not good for me, were not good people, or did not have my best interests at heart. Another of his tactics was, for example, to cancel out on plans at the very last moment. He would feign a toothache or headache or stomach-ache or some such other malady. He would suddenly experience this malady about 10 minutes before we were due to leave to meet with my friends. Since this was 1998, it was before the time when everyone had a cell phone. As a result, I would usually have to go to the event to let my friends know. I had a few friends who had cell phones at that point, so I could call them. But the majority of my friends didn’t have cell phones.

                  He would encourage me to go without him and say he didn’t want to spoil my fun. I did have a cell phone, and if I went, he would call me repeatedly, to make sure I arrived there safely, I was doing okay, and to inquire as to what time I would be coming home. This would begin within 10 minutes of me getting there and continue throughout the night. It was problematic for me if the event was a movie premiere. It isn’t cool to get calls during a movie. Sometimes, I wouldn’t hear the phone ring because the event was at a bar or music venue. When I saw the missed calls and responded, he would tell me he was stressed out because I hadn’t answered earlier and was close to calling the police to check on me. This would stress me out. It would also stress my friends out if I told them.

                  I remember one night when I attended a birthday party for a female friend that was a “girls night out”. He, therefore, wasn’t invited. He called me so many times and I was so stressed at the end of the night that one of the girls suggested I not attend the next one, scheduled for a few weeks later. I agreed.

                  I had one male friend who got tickets to prescreenings of movies — before they were released — as he was “in the business”. The tickets were free. We just had to complete a short survey at the end. He had a waiting list of people who wanted to see these movies, after all, it was cool to see a movie before anyone else. I had always gone with him, for many years, and he always gave me the right of first refusal. He was a very close friend, much like the brother I never had. So, when my abuser came into my life, he naturally included him. He even tried to male-bond with him. After about 15 or so last minute cancellations, my friend was a little annoyed with me. He said that he had other people begging for the tickets and he needed to have the surveys completed in order to keep getting as many tickets as he did. I totally understood his point. But my ex “convinced” me that he was more interested in his position in the industry than he was in my health or his health. I guess I had extremely low self esteem because I “saw” his point and was resentful towards my friend.

                  Ultimately, my friendship with that friend was destroyed beyond repair with other things my ex pulled, and even after my ex had moved me to another state. In fact, that destruction took many years because my bond with that friend was so close and had existed for so long. Neither one of us wanted to give up on our friendship. But my ex always found a way to intervene. It sadly came down to a business relationship we had — quite outside of our friendship — that my ex intervened in and communicated with my friend about, making it into something it wasn’t.

                  After my ex convinced me to move away to another state, it was difficult to stay in touch with friends. I immediately started making new friends. We had moved at the end of September, and by the holidays, I had numerous invites for us to various events. My ex then began pulling things like if we were invited to a party, he would tell me he was going to the rest room, but he would leave. I was still pretty social at that point, and would be engaged in conversation, simply nodding at him when he said he was going to the rest room. It would be a while before I realized he had never returned and start looking for him. He didn’t have a cell phone then, so I would call home and sometimes, he would answer saying he had to leave because (a) people were drinking and he couldn’t handle it or (b) I was drinking and he didn’t like it or (c) someone said something that offended him and rather than punch them, he went home. Of course, I would then leave to “soothe” him. Afterwards, the people who invited us would wonder if they had caused problems between my husband and I. They didn’t want to do that.

                  I remember very specifically one time we were invited to watch “The Batchelor” at some people’s house. Apparently, they’d been getting together for a while. My ex absolutely HATED reality shows, so I was surprised he agreed to go along. He pulled one of those “leaving” stunts that time. But before he did, he stood up and made some proclamation about how anyone who watched reality TV was an idiot who didn’t realize how the network was manipulating the viewers and making money from an ignorant public who wanted to see other people break down. Needless to say, it became so quiet in the room that you could have dropped a pin. I was honestly grateful when he went to the rest room. People got back to being “normal” and just laughing at the show. When he didn’t come back, I didn’t notice for a while. I felt relief that he was not there. His presence caused uncomfortable feelings in the others present. But ultimately, I realized I had to get up and walk home to be with him. For one thing, I had to show some sort of solidarity with my husband. For another, I knew that if I didn’t, he would be upset with me, and withdraw his affection from me to “punish” me. Politely, I made my excuses that he was not feeling well. Others remarked that they didn’t understand why he couldn’t just enjoy the social event anyway, seeing as the show only lasted an hour.

                  I was surprised when we were invited the next week. Needless to say, he declined and I wasn’t allowed to go alone. I was told these people were attempting to pollute my mind. While I didn’t agree, I wasn’t sure what to do other than also decline.

                  I’m just citing a very few examples here in my lengthy post. But there were many others. Ultimately, after you have declined invitations repeatedly, you stop getting invited. Although initially, it was his actions that made others feel uncomfortable, he almost always left before making a “scene”. It was me who became visibly nervous, stressed, and uncomfortable in their presence. People remembered that. And when they later bumped into him in the grocery store and inquired about me, and he said I had some “mental ailment” which is why they hadn’t seen me socially for a long time, their sympathies lay with him. Other than his proclamation about the ignorance of others who watched reality TV, most of them had only ever witnessed me shaking, nervous and upset.

                  Another thing he did was to “take over” my friendships. After we moved, since I don’t drive and we lived in an area with no public transportation, I was dependent on him or others for rides. I began volunteering at a cat shelter and he drove me there and back. Then, others offered to do the same. He didn’t like me being with other people, so he said he would drive me. But then, he couldn’t do it at the times I was willing, so he began communicating with the shelter owner to explain my absence. Somehow, that led to him volunteering instead of me. Before I knew it, he had taken over my friendship with the shelter owner, and she was depending on him for other things, like computer support, and I no longer felt I could talk to her.

                  A very similar situation happened with a neighbour I was helping with caring for her cat who was ill, and I had experience with that type of care with my own cat. On a few occasions, I stayed with her after finishing caring for her cat, and talked. We even had a glass of wine one night. He didn’t like me talking to other people at all, at that point. It simply wasn’t allowed. He was, by then, being physically abusive, and he was afraid I might let it slip. Before I knew it, he was doing the care (even though he never did it for my cat) and he was her best friend, and I wasn’t needed. Ultimately, they had an affair — although I didn’t know about that until after he was arrested.

                  All of this led to more and more isolation for me. I was completely alone at the end, and I had been for a very long time — other than a couple of friends I’d met online who I could call after he went to bed or left the house.

                  Yes, it was a “fantasy” in the beginning of some type. The fantasy was that he ever loved me. He didn’t love anyone but himself. He loved controlling me, that’s for sure. But, by the end, it was a living nightmare that I didn’t have any idea how to get out of. I hope this makes sense.

            • I definitely agree with you cindyp. Nobody wanted to believe that my ex was an abuser either because to everyone else he was a charming, responsible, amazing guy. Nobody could believe some of the things he did to me. It was mostly verbal/emotional abuse, but there were a couple instances of sex abuse (if that’s the right term). He once shoved my head down toward his exposed penis after I said I didn’t want to give him oral. Another time I was crying because he had just said some hurtful, berating things to me, and while I was crying, he proceeded to have sex with me. I never said no, but I didn’t want it either. I was just sort of frozen, like I couldn’t talk or move.

              • Darling Brittany,

                I am just so sorry to hear that. It sounds like you may have been a victim of an SA (sex addict). The emotional and verbal abuse is common among addicts (that goes with any type of addicts, though, from sex to drug addicts). They have an internal hatred for themselves and then project that part of themselves on to their victim; therefore the hatred of themselves comes through as abuse to the victim. Unfortunately it is subtle and sneaky. It builds extremely quickly behind closed doors as they learn to be more comfortable with their partner. This is why, although we don’t hear a whole lot of Jodi and TA’s personal conversations, what I do hear, I recognize TA as an abuser and Jodi as a victim/enabler; she thought she was pleasing the one she loved while he was secretly feeding his addiction therefore getting angrier and more violent with her.

                It is not a much discussed area of addictions or abuses. In fact when I first needed help, in all of the Los Angeles area (even as far as Palm Springs) I could find only three therapists that had a great deal of experience in this area. And – That’s why not many people can recognize this in TA or Jodi. I keep praying the “expert” in abuse has at least some knowledge of this area to shed some light.

                And my goodness Brittany, I hope that you are safe and well, now.

              • Britney, I’m sooooo sorry. It’s just amazing how charming they all are to everyone else but us. Have you read Lundy Bancroft’s book “Why Does He Do That?” That was such an eye-opener for me about how they live such a charmed life. And they’re all sexually deviant too. It’s sickening.

    • Wouldn’t it be interesting if the judge could sentence some of these friends to 30 days in an iron maiden for not following instructions.

      • I think if CH is called to the stand, he could be charged with contempt of court, among other things, but he would have to be called and I don’t think the prosecutor is going to do that.

        • But Nurmi can, cant he??? Nurmi’s office needs to be notified of this. CH keeps doing this and his getting away with it!!!

          What’s up with Nurmi’s office anyway? ?? Does he not have assistants or even people working there with interest on this case????? If I worked there (even as the receptionist), i wouls atleast have an ear open for these kinds of things. Actually, id be doing everything possible to help out. Does he not have staff help?

      • would hughes and the alexander family feel different if jodi was their daughter or their sister???or even juan m for that matter?

  4. First let me say your site is very informative. Great job. Like so many others, I have been addicted to this case since I first read about it. It pulls you in and keeps you in. Yesterday was the first day I actually watched the proceedings on tv. I agree with you on many aspects of Martinez. His “little man syndrome” is extremely annoying. He’s uses bullying to cover his obvious lack of skills.
    I really hope his tactics do not take the life of Jodi. I do think she needs to be punished for her actions but I don’t think she premeditated this. I really wish I could defend her. Her attorneys are okay but there are a lot of things I think they are missing. The roommates for example. How did they not smell his decomposing body? How did they not wonder why he left without asking them to care for his dog? I believe one of them had knowledge of this. We all know that TA’s Mormon community are doing all they can to cover up their secrets. They are all over the place making Jodi look like the devil and TA a perfect angel. I saw one of his friends on Dr. Drew last night. I know they watch the trial but they seen to block out the horrible things about him. It’s pretty disgusting. It’s also pretty scary.
    We’ll probably never know the whole truth about what happened that night. I do believe she killed him. I don’t believe she did it by herself. I think she had help and she’s too scared to say anything.

    • I agree with you, and the main reason I can think of for her fear is that TA’s death was church-related. I know that comes across as some crazy conspiracy, but why else would she be so afraid? An organization like the Mormon Church could certainly deliver a swift retribution if Jodi revealed all the details. If Mormonism played a role in TA’s death, then how could Jodi possibly be safe unless she remained tight-lipped about it?

      • Yes Jamison and she also bought a 9mm AFTER what happened to TA. She testified that it was because she was going on a camping trip with a few people she didnt fully trust, so she bought it for protection. She never went on that trip but I blv she bought it because she was scared that these intruders would come after her. Now, doesn’t THAT make a lot more sense? ???

        • There is definitely a ritualistic appearance in this murder, also from scholars who have written about cults it has the look of a cult killing.I just do not know But The Mormon’s have a history of strange behavior many ex Mormons have written about it.. The cult like behavior of Jodi and her worship of Travis resemble a cult leader. The love Bombing and the change in Jodi’s personality. Being Shunned by the group causes enormous amount of depression
          .
          The God Makers is a very revealing story and some of the commentary on this book is truly insightful.
          Comment by Ex Mormon
          Also anyone who goes through the secret rituals of the temple can tell you it’s a very shocking experience, whether you believe in it or not. In the temple among many things, I had to promise secrecy with a bloody oath. I drew my thumb across my throat as if my throat was being slit, and I drew my thumb over my abdomen indicating that my bowels would be cut out. I also was angry to learn that someday when I married, my husband would be my way to the Celestial kingdom. In the 80’s at BYU we were taught that a woman could only go as high as her husband.
          Remember Travis Friend wrote on his My Space about how glad that he was that Travis was coming out???Perhaps the Book Travis was writing was going to reveal certain truths about him, this group, that The Mormons did not want known.

          • About Travis’s writings; why isn’t that evidence? Why is the diary that the Hughes have possesion of not in evidence? Here are two instances of knowledge about Travis that is concelled. Why? Why isn’t that reported in the media? Why hasn’t the media reported that the slashing of tires and threatening emails can’t be traced to Jodi and most likely didn’t come from her? The media is the source that put that out to the public about Jodi being a stalker, tire slasher, email terrorist, etc… but no retraction of false statements. I hope Jodi goes forward to sue these networks for millions.

        • If my lack of trust in a few individuals was so strong I felt the need to bring along a weapon for protection, then I simply wouldn’t go camping with them. But that’s just me.

          I’m still fascinated by the bullet that was found in TA’s cheek, and that no one seems to know if it was a hollow-point or not. Or was that resolved?

      • The proof she was scared for her life to me is she bought a 9mm. She said for a camping trip but I truly believe she was scared for her life.

        I am tired of reading about how Mormon’s are all so great an Christians also. True Christian Soldiers do not act like the ones I have been seeing an reading about. True Christians will not LIE for the CHURCH. Members would not be worrying about a cover up. It is truly disgusting to me.

        I know there are good people born into that Religion an I know a lot that have left it also. Nobody says you have to stay in that for LIFE you chose too same as any other Religion we have choices we are not forced age 18 or even before you can pick your own thoughts if the parents shun you then too bad I say.

    • Ok so let us assume for a minute that she is telling the truth…… she knows she shot him…… after that it is a blank. Maybe she is not covering for anyone…..maybe the amnesia is REAL and she does not know what happened after she left. Maybe there ARE two or more involved but she does NOT know who they are. Couldn’t that be possible if she is indeed telling the truth now?

    • Patti, I blv her attorney’s can’t do much about “other/others” being there or helping Jodi that day because since they didn’t find evidence (well that we know of), then it wouldn’t be relevant to her SD claim. I know….Iits all screwed up!!! And if Jodi now comes out and sais, well the REAL truth IS…. and says she didn’t do it alone or she had help or anything else, they WONT blv her. THEY DONT BLV HER NOW!!! They didnt blv her 2nd story about the intruders. They’ve decided from the beginning, not to blv anything she has to say!!! Why??? Idk. The only thing I can come up with is because they’ve bern hidding something from the start and the ONLY thing they will blv and expect her to say is that SHE did in and that she planned it!!! Nothing other then that, anything else is a lie!!! There is something very wrong here and WE see that!

  5. I have been watching the trial since Jodi took the stand. The defense team has done an ok job trying to save her from condemned row. Samuels seems to have been seriously unprepared and it makes it seem as though he is intentionally being deceptive . Samuels should have been more proactive in his preparation now Martinez is shredding him at every turn . Not looking good at all I guess we’ll have to see what monday brings.

    • I don’t agree with this as we all know that Samuels has had extensive experience in the courtroom. The prosecution is using a “tactic” that is well-known among prosecutors; to jump back and forth in the timeline in order to trip up the witness, get them to say something wrong, then you can go back and attack that detail in order to put their credibility on the line. Samuels worked on this case years ago and has had to refresh his memory. Do you think this is the only case in his life? Chances are – not. Dr. Samuels has hand written notes that he realizes he MUST refer back to; because God forbid if he slips on one details from five years ago, JM will make another mountain out of a mole hill and we’ll spend another freakin’ hour on THAT detail. (What is the definition of COMPASSION???? Get my point?) I’m sure in other trials Samuels has testified in, he has not come across such gross exaggeration, showboating and deception from a prosecutor. Most judges would have their courtrooms under more control than this. However, in this high-profile case, in a mormon community, against a fellow mormon, I’m sure they (judge and prosecutor) are trying to avoid any perception of inadequate council and bias (well at least for the prosecution side).

      • If those are NORMAL PEOPLE on the JURY they can see an hear what I have heard. JM treated JODI the same way back an forth an all over the place. He treated some of his own witnesses this way too. It is how he gets them confused an hopes to make them say something different or something that does not even fit right so he can screw it all around. Like Gus Searcy said he hoped Jodi would see how JM tried to put words in his mouth an he would not let him. This is how that Prosecutor works. He not decisive but a sneaky snake of a man hoping an praying for a slip up daily. Which I think is his job when trying to prove something that is not true he does not care if it is not true or not he wants the DEATH PENALTY just as every person sitting on TRAVIS”S side states DAILY on TV on BLOGS on FB an everywhere DEATH AN NOTHING LESS we want to watch JODI DIE I have read this CRAP ! an I am so sick of the hatred an ugly faces in the court. I hope they pay for the FALSE WITNESS SINS IN FULL !!

        • Sick of them too Rhonda!
          I can’t imagine one person looking at that family and
          not thinking that they are very disrespctful
          to the court. EVEN the judge!
          Is this shown around the world?
          Embarresing

    • “Martinez is shredding him at every turn ”

      That’s the same thing some people thought after JM’s first cross and JW completely rehabilitated him. JW will get her chance this go-around too.

    • No, he’s not shredding him, IMO!
      jaun is just taking over the court,( he thinks ) with his insults and
      yelling. jaun makes himself look like the damn fool that he is.

      • well nobody really stops him from taking over the court. I am kind of worried, has he been elected as a prosecutor?
        A lot of people are talking about the fact that Dr S has not repeated the test, but to me this seems unnecessary since the lying would not change the underlying emotions in my opinion plus Jodi would have known the questions therefore this could have interfered with the results ?????? this is just what my feeling is

    • Stop lying? What do you think she’s still lying about?

      I’ve never seen her family “laugh their asses off ” about anything. Sounds like Travistown hyperbole.

      • I saw that one day on the FB page for Travis, never once did I see her family laugh and carry on, not once, I’m not sure where people are seeing this at.

        • Leah, I think the problem is the people behind JA’s mother, they act like they are at a social event. What people who are watching don’t realize is those people are TA’s supporters not part of JA’s family and friends. Behind the prosecutor it is reserved for TA’s family and the press, no one from the public is allowed to sit there. I have said on previous posts, they are behaving
          inappropriate for court.The court is suppose to be neutral so that both sides have a fair chance at being heard. It is not a place for the public to be cheerleaders for one side or the other.

          • That cheerleading behavior shouldn’t be allowed in any courtroom, the gum chewing also is annoying, but I guess this judge doesn’t care about that. Maybe I expect more and shouldn’t.

            • I believe we what you’re expecting is reasonable … the right to a fair trial. I was reading in Spence’s book that the biggest fear of a judge is that a conviction in their court get overturned. She will never get appointed to higher court. I really don’t understand why she has let things get out of control in and out of the court. I do wonder what the people of Maricopa (?) county think of this judge. Hopefully this will hurt her chances of being re-elected.

          • I think the judge is losing control of the courtroom. I think she should give a very clear warning that the room will be cleared of all spectators if any one of them is disrespectful to the court. No snickering, no cackling, no gum chewing, no eyerolling, no making statements either verbal or by wearing ribbons or buttons on lapels. None of that or the courtroom will be cleared and she should make that warning ON THE RECORD. The Appeals people need to know that the HLN madness is in the courtroom.

            • Trying,
              She said in the beginning of the trial that any of that and the person/persons
              would be admonished from the court.
              Very bad judge!

            • Sometimes I think her eyesight must extend up to the laywers’ desks.She seems as if paying no attention whatsoever to the gallery.

      • One day, Jodi’s mom shared a joke or small moment of laughter with her sister. It was a sweet moment if seen with normal eyes. She is a human being, just as Travis’s family is. But of course the talking heads and media made a tremendous deal out of it. The awful double standard needs to stop. Its ok for Travis’s family to laugh and joke (it’s good for them, too) but Jodi and her family deserve the same treatment. Her mother did nothing wrong. She laughed. GOOD for her. She deserves moments of happiness amidst this tragedy also. The talking heads and media do it for ratings. It validates their meager existence…I ignore them or I would be on trial also!

    • Welcome Brad,

      I’ve watched a few trials in my day, and Martinez is not as respected as the media touts. Attorneys out of Phoeniz have noted abuses and disrespect countless times during this trial and other trials. He MAY be FEARED, I can see that, but respected in the sense that his own peer group looks up to him is not the consensus. I respectfully disagree with you about his role as prosecutor. Many prosecutors are just out to win and justice is secondary. Just this morning an innocent man was freed due to an overzealous prosecutor and LE. They actually coached witnesses and withheld testimony.

      Martinez is abusive. The prosecutor in the Conrad Murray trial did not behave like that. The prosecutor in my own case against an ex for domestic battery did not behave that way.

      • I agree JC, JM is not respectful and it doesn’t matter to him what the truth is. If the facts were there to support his case, he wouldn’t need to resort to abuse and ripping everyone to shreds. He is dishonest and uses hysterics to cover up that fact. A court of law is suppose to be about the truth, not how much a prosecutor can manipulate and twist evidence.

      • Thank you Brad and JC, It’s refreshing so many people are interested in the truth. Trust the jury gets it right. Unless you have been in love with an abusive person, it is very hard to understand. It’s like reading the Bible as a non-believer. Only true believers can understand God’s word. Doesn’t make sense. Just as this horrible crime. Praying for Jodi and the Travis Family.

        • Lura Lapp, like your parallels between understanding Abuse and understanding Gods Word. It is hard for a normal mind to wrap its head around the twisted logic that goes along with abuse. You’ve had to have been there, to truly ‘get’ it. One who has been there can smell it from a mile (or even further). Same as Gods word will not reach your soul/spirit to truly grasp it as a casual reader.

      • Martinez can feel strongly about his case but in my opinion he should not be allowed to treat witnesses with such disrespect and angry. I think his methods are mean, very confusing and twisted and how the judge can just keep going with his actions is a mystery to me. Just from the way he ask questions I dont think he wants justice, he wants to win and be in control. He is an angry person and a control freak. I also think Travis was a controlling man. I am very sorry that he was killed and very sorry for his family but I think he made jodi feel like a piece of dirt and with his last attempt to hurt her she lost it thus the stabbing and memory loss of the event. It feels horrible to have a man constantly belittle you and hurt you and when one feels that man is “better than she is” (low self esteem) she will go along with whatever to keep him around and happy. These feelings are a sickness.

      • I do not believe Martinez is out for justice. In fact, when I started watching this case, I just watch the trial on HLN while fast forwarding through the commentary. I thought Jodi may have been guilty, and even that she may be a sociopath. Then when I watched the prosecutor in action – I had to call my daughter in the room to watch as I could not believe his behavior and courtroom antics. My daughter has wanted to be an attorney for a few years now and is going to school in that direction. I have helped her prepare, study, going with our attorney friends to observe court, and never have I heard or seen such outrageous behavior and thought, until this case, that that type of behavior was not allowed in a ‘real’ court of law!

        Moving on, his antics caused me to watch this case closely. Those with any knowledge know that something is not right. And after watching a short while, I realized that the thing that was not right was that the prosecutor has no evidence, no real facts, and is basing his entire case on his speculative theory and hoping that he can convince the jurors to sway to his belief system. He is hoping, in a sense, to brainwash the jury; contort the facts, twist the meanings of words and phrases, ask questions that have only one answer, then USE IT AGAINST THEM. Example; to the Dr. “do you have feelings?” “Yes.” (Note that only sociopaths have no feelings.) “Then you cannot treat Ms. Arias because you have feelings for her!!!” (..not exact words, of course) In that case, a yes or no answer would be bad for the witness. That is just one of many tricks JM uses.

        Under this type of stress, anyone will become confused and disoriented therefore look like they are a “bumbling old man” or whatever label you choose to believe. We can only hope the jury (at least some) see through these tricks by putting themselves in the shoes of the witness. (Unfortunately, we already know that some people may find this type of behavior to be exhilarating.)

        • Yes! Muddy the waters… because even if you hear a thousand positive statements, one negative statement will stick out like a sore thumb! Basic human nature – we all do that, even with every day things. It will be no different with the Jury. Thus the subtly disguised low-blow Q’s from them. I cringed on some of them for the good doc.

          JM is trying to ring bells that cannot be unrung. The Judge is seemingly oblivious to many insinuations from JM that have caused and still causing, perhaps, irreparable damage to the defense of JA.

        • Cindyp,

          Re Your shock at JM lack of court decorum vs. what you and your daughter observe in a cultured environment. Your final word was “exhilarating.” referring to the unfortunate seeking of sensationalism by negative folks.

          It is your post that I find exhilarating!
          BRAVO!!! BRAVO!!!

          (By the way – try as I will, I cannot find a way to cause my comments to occur immediately following the post I am responding to. Help would be welcome.)

    • What people do not realize that are unacquainted with the Law, is that many Prosecutors are only interested in winning their case and will do anything just to win. The State always has many many more resources then any individual including OJ Simpson, This prosecutor resorts to very sleazy behavior with regard to the Arias case ,he twist facts, misquotes and screams incessantly. Martinez has made it glaringly obvious that he is not interested in the truth wants her dead. Every citizen of this country should be very alarmed at the propaganda machine of the Media which is out of control and a courtroom that resembles a low class Bar Room Brawl .The law should be a search for the truth Martinez is not interested in the truth. The reason that the Jury seemed to be asking so many questions that the Prosecutor should have and may have asked is simply due to the fact that Martinez interrupts constantly, does not ask questions in a coherent fashion, and badgers the witness to a point that most sane people find completely unnecessary to say the least. Martinez just screams rants and raves H, he is not clear in his cross examinations ,his questions are monologues, and resemble closing arguments. He has a Johnny one note emotion, RAGE. This rage is understandable if it were presented in its true context, but when it is a constant ingredient with every word he utters it looks phony, just plain uncivilized. As a great Man once said, its fine to be emotionally moved, but humanly impossible to be emotionally moved all the time, you look like a phony. This is an easy case for the Prosecution but Martinez, with the help of a very inexperienced Judge who never was involved with a Capital Case, has turned this into a Circus Freak Show. I do not see the point in Martinez slandering screaming at the Dr. Samuel’s he comes off as a Nasty little man who may be compensating for his lack of height. Also his inferior intellect and verbal skills compared to Dr. Samuel’s will ultimately destroy his eagerness for a Death Penalty. Dr.Samuel;s is not on trial , and from all the remarks made by Anti Jodi Arias people they find the Martinez, too unprofessional and unethical. The cases he won in DP anyone could have won. In short Martinez is a buffoon.

      • Right on!! And you certainly can’t call someone ethical that poses for a photo with a Drew juror. Why does he choose to do that? He must be insecure with the facts. He has to get the media involved with promoting him as the hero. All of this media bullcrap is an autrocity.

      • Well said.Looking and listening to Martinez I can ONLY think that here is a man who OVERcharged a case,didnt accept the plea deal and now,that he literally has NO case to build his premeditated murder theory around,resorts to petty tactics.Even his yelling and overflowing indignation towards witnesses and Jodi herself are mere ACTING skills that he HAS to put on because now all he relies on is the jurors’ GULLIBILITY! I really wish he had admitted he failed as far as charging this case is concerned,at least.Then,the plea deal wouldnt be off the table and Jodi wouldnt have to go through this hell!
        Hey,I dont pretend to know or to have researched anything about the previous cases he has won-and I must admit that during those first trial days I was intimidated by him and at times I even felt admiration,you see his ”fame” and ”power” as Prosecutor were highlithed everywhere-BUT it’s more than obvious that now that we all got to taste a little bit of Martinez’s court strategy,I ‘m more than certain that it was his acting skills and some of those other jurors’ gullibility that must have won him so many court bravos!

        • You are so right, Maria. This case is soooo overcharged, it isn’t even funny. I mean, think about it, even on its surface. Murder one with the death penalty for a woman who may have killed her ex-boyfriend. She’s not a serial killer. She didn’t kill children or police officers. We have evidence that her ex (or was it boyfriend as in friend with benefits?) didn’t exactly treat her well (that’s about as nice as I can say it).

          She offered to plead to murder two — not manslaughter, mind you. That’s really WHAT this case should have been charged as. But the state declined her offer of murder two. Did you get that? I am sure you did, Maria. But it seems the hater sites are unable to comprehend that. The state declined her offer to plea to murder two. The state preferred to waste money with a HUGELY publicized trial.

          • Sure, it´s easy to get it (to use your own words). The haters are incapable of putting two and two together, though.This case was overcharged because of the prosecutors megalomania! He wants to step on this case and take advantage of the fame that will come with it IF he wins. That’s careers are built, by stamping on people who are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty not the other way round!

  6. SarahP says:
    March 22, 2013 at 1:48 am
    I love how during sidebars, Martinez stands there slump-shouldered and with his hands in his pockets like a wetback standing outside a thrift shop waiting for the tamale wagon to roll into town. God help us.

    ————–

    I doubt my post will last long, but I just wanted to congratulate you SarahP on playing your arrogant race card, and sharing it for the world to see.

    How refreshing it is for you to spew your garbage in such a manner. Tell me, does the name ARIAS also fit into this category?

    Oh well, at least your true colors have surfaced. Such a role model.

        • That’s not the first racist statement SarahP has made too! Apologies should be demanded from her right now!!!:-( The word “wetback” is every bit as offensive as the N-word and has no place here!

          • Now I’m a little sorry I joined this site. Ken N. explained his above post somewhat, but Sarah P. has no excuse. Crikey.

    • I don’t approve or agree with the above statement.

      I do disagree with you when you say “only cheerleading” is allowed to be posted here.

      • Seriously I have seen way worse about Nurmi on the haters sites………………..if people do not like some comments why can’t they keep scrolling I DO ! I Why is A OK for the other side to really badger every little movement or physical appearance on Jodi’s side but when it comes back to them OH MY!! just scroll on GEEZ people are such panty waists anymore an one sided it really pisses me off.

        Seriously big deal I have heard worse jokes an seen Mexicans laugh at them at a comedy club !

  7. I’m such a softy I’m already feeling sorry for Martinez.

    He is going to lose badly.

    But maybe he deserves some public humiliation, and he isn’t behaving as I always imagined a prosecutor should. I never watched a televised trial before, so I don’t have good points of reference.

    If there is anyone he has wrongfully convicted, my sympathy will evaporate pretty quickly,

    • Geebee, his won 14 cases, has never lost one. (Thats what iv read). This will HOPEFULLY be his 1st loss. Out of 14 cases, how many do you think he’s wrongly convicted? ?? The way he works, I would have to say, ATLEAST one. Or more, who knows, he’s dirty!

      • been wondering about that myself,LC.Wondering how many people are in prison just because Martinez overcharged!

        • I have been trying to research info about the prosecutor such as ethical violations and motions for prosecutorial conduct etc. I haven’t found anything yet but I don’t think I know how to properly find this information. I think one would have to request the info from the AZ bar? Does anyone have any feedback?

    • Does anyone know KN and JW’s record in winning/losing cases?

      JM’s we all know of course, as his PR team (HLN et, al) have thrown that around constantly.

      I almost expect JM to look at the camera every time he is done with his exams (which probably feels more like a prostate exam for the witnesses 🙂 ) and scream “WINNING!” Charlie Sheen style for all his peeps out there in the wild blue yonder!!

  8. Hi SJ! Great article and great advice for today…”stay away from HLN” I know I have and it’s definitely made a difference. Have a great weekend JA supporters 🙂

    By the way where can I see the entire clip for Jose Baez on VP?

        • Well, it was Alexander not guilty of attacking Jodi, by 9 to 2.
          But the show was a farce really.
          I mean there were a few good points made about the crime scene.

          What I want to know is how the camera got down the hall according to Martinez.
          I think he was hoping Jodi would tell him, now that hasn’t worked, he is up a creek with no paddle.

          [sarcasm]
          Oh, I know! Jodi deliberately drops the camera to start a fight, and then we follow the defence narrative, but it’s cold-blooded murder at the end.
          [/sarcasm]

  9. BtW,
    On one of the better pro jodi FB pages, I tried to tell the admins about two really bad trolls ( meaning they belong to at least 5 other pages that are all about how Jodi better get the DP), and voila… found myself blocked from the page.
    So inexplicable as that was, I like this room to stay open and considerate.

      • The Jodi Arias Overcharged page. It is much like this one, for the most part, it has been very fair and open. I might have been kicked out for pointing that out ( two trolls who just stayed under the radar with what they said.) in a message to both admins. One said I could come back but all my requests have been denied. However, I can believe that they get alot of harassment on FB because they are admins too, I know that one for sure was getting threats, as she/he spoke of it.

        Anyway, this is a great page.

        • Thats kind of strange they would kick you out for that. Maybe they aren’t really pro jodi and couldn’t handle your comments. I would think they should ban the other two people.

          • I was shocked. I have never said anything negative at all. I have said worse things on here yesterday when I was listening to Martinez yelling. I dont know whats up with that. Anyway, it was a very good page, because they behave much like here, and are pretty calm group

            • I’m on that group too,Shan.Lurking mostly but reading every post.I just dont get it,why would they block YOU?Why not the other two??

              • Be very careful everyone when posting on their site especially if you use your regular facebook account.

    • Is it just me, or does Judge Sherry seem very like she leans wayyyy to the side of the prosecution. I mean she overrules … everything from the defense. I think by big Questions start with why was the jury not sequestered? I know its expensive, but we are aleady almost a million bucks into this for the defense anyway… so… why not?

      • Sometimes I think the judge is trying very hard to prove she is not biased to the defense so allows the prosecution to go overboard. Then other times I think she’s actually allowing JM to act like this to help the defense. Then I go back to thinking she is just pro-prosecution. In all honesty, I have never in my life seen such behavior and I pray this is an aberration and NOT the way the courts are becoming due to the extreme emotion of hatred that seems to be taking over our country.

        • I must be riding the same roller coaster as you are, Cindy, in trying to figure it out and rethinking and rethinking again etc…

      • I feel like some days she leans toward the defense, others toward the prosecutor. Even though she overrules stuff for the defense, Martinez still doesn’t get his way, and in a way, it sorta just makes him look aggressive.

  10. Good afternoon Team Jodi family!!

    What an outstanding post SJ. Your brilliant use of words I’m sure would make Webster proud! (wink wink…LOL LOL)

    You know with TAs family sitting in court every day with their blue ribbons, why don’t we get bracelets that say “Jodi Arias Is INNOCENT…FREE JODI” for all of us to wear? I’d wear it proudly!!

    If I want to donate money to Jodi, can I do it with my credit card or do I need to use Paypal? (I don’t have Paypal that’s why I ask)…

    Thank you!!

  11. I am so sick of the “she lied” garbage. There is NO proof at all she has lied on the witness stand, and all of the evidence supports her account. I don’t think she made anything up.

    The unfortunate things she said to Detective Flores early on because she was under stress, as we know, from PTSD, and she didn’t get a lawyer, are not proof of premeditation. Lying to a police officer is not a capital offense and is in fact a common occurence with defendants. I think Flores and Martinez are sorry as hell they EVER listened to Travis’s friends b.s. accounts.

    • I, too, was so sick of the “she lied” crap that I had to say something on a couple of pro-TA sites. I mentioned that her lies were to protect herself. TA lied, too, and especially to his church so that he could continue to be an elder. If they all think lying is grounds for conviction, then they should all agree that TA got what he deserved for lying (not my thoughts, I’m just saying if you think lying is grounds for death penalty). You know what? Nobody could respond to that – so they called me names instead. lol

  12. Anyone out there ever heard that saying: “You shout so loud I cannot hear what you are saying?”
    Since watching Martinez, it has taken on new meanings for me. There are some very nice, well-meaning peeps on other sites spewing hate and nonsense because they sincerely BELIEVE that BECAUSE Martinez is a prosecutor in a Court of Law, that he is honest and that he is working to promote justice. This is, unfortunately, an invalid presumption. Anyone with an objective mind and critical thinking skills can come to no other conclusion if listening to the words that come out of his mouth while observing his manipulative showboat tactics. He PRETENDS to be a zealous hero fighting for the good name of TA and for justice for TA’s family, but this is a farce because if this man truly held these values dear to himself, he woud have allowed JA to plead to murder2 when the defense team asked for consideration. Both families could be on their way toward healing by now if this selfish man had performed his job competently instead of using this case and people close to it for its sensationalism in order to thrust himself into a national spotlight to try to further his useless career. Sadly, family and friends of TA are being USED, as are the blind fanatics who cheer for this drama king without actually LISTENING to the CONTENT of what the man is SAYING. Wake up, peeps, your emperor has no clothes!

    • I agree with most of what you are saying. I’m sure someone here can correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe it was TA’s family who insisted on pursuing the DP instead of accepting a plea bargain.

      I think it shows a sense of responsibility, integrity, honesty and genuine remorse that Jodi offered to plead guilty to 2nd degree. The fact that TA’s family is pushing for her death is, to me, the best illustration of the difference between TA’s family and supporters – and, by extension, TA himself – and Jodi.

      • I heard that too. I was not there, so I do not know all the facts, but if you are willing to humor me, I can tell you something from my own experience to shed some light on where I am coming from… Many years ago, two seventeen-year-old boys, one driving a little orange convertible, the other driving a motorcycle with no helmet. Cycle speeds up to end of an unmarked T-intersection, and without stopping, makes a left turn directly in front of and into the grill of oncoming convertible. Boy on bike died right there. Boy who was driving the car was my older brother. It was an accident. County decided to at least put up a stop sign at the T intersection, but thst doesnt turn back the clock. Two hurting families. Their family tried to sue ours. Didn’t win anything. Family wouldn’t talk to our family a number of years. Finally, other Dad apologized to my Dad and explained how lawyers had urged him on to sue when poor man was in midst of all his fresh grief. My Pa had figured as much, but sure appreciated thattime had allowed some mending to happen. Maybe I am biased, but I suspect Martinez may have “helped” the grieving family come to the decision. jmo.

        • BTW, totally agree with you about Jodi’s willingness to plead demonstrating her integrity, et.al.
          Enjoyed your post!

      • It’s always always always up to the prosecutor. The victim/family in criminal cases can attempt to persuade the prosecutor one way or another, but it’s always the prosecutor’s decision. That being said, Martinez almost NEVER goes for pleas. I’ve read that about him in several articles now.

    • Emerson
      From a essay titled “Social Aims” by Ralph Waldo Emerson, it has been simplified by many people
      Don’t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary.

  13. So my mom has been out of the country for the entire duration of the trial. This morning, HLN was on at the surgery center I was having my tonsils out at, and they were discussing the Jodi Arias trial.

    I told my mom why I thought they were biased, and I told her about how they even brought her babysitter from when she was 4 in effort to make her seem guilty now. My mom laughed and found it ridiculous. I told my mom she couldn’t remember most of the stabbing and my mom agreed she could very well have PTSD.

  14. Martinez Sucks Sorry he is the worst I have ever seen. I am sure he will turn off Jurors with his low class demeanor. He has no decorum. The judge needs to tell him this is a Court Of Law and to comport himself in a manner that is acceptable to civilized human beings. The courtroom is not a place for him to flaunt his monstrous psychological deformities

  15. What J.M. is doing would mess with anybodys head.I see what he’s trying to accomplish,but I think the jury isn’t buying it.You see it on hln how they are discribing his tactic,but note how they describe him.Out like a bulldog,He’s grilling the witness,etc.What he’s doing is acting like a fool,cunfussing the witness,the jury and I think the judge as this is her firt murder case.The only people he is not cunfussing is the defense team.They are doing a good job getting all the facts to the jury by reasking questions that the witness never got to finish anwsering while being qestion by J.M.And I think thats what the jury wants.Don’t you think that when J.M. tryies to confuse the witness that thiers someone on the jury saying to themselves, shut up and let them finish.I think if shes found guilty that they have more then enough of misconduct to give her a new trail or overturn the verdict.

    • ”What J.M. is doing would mess with anybodys head.”
      I pray he only gets to mess other people’s heads,hopefully NOT the jury’s 🙂

  16. SJ – this is an excellent post! Thank you.

    I’ll comment on just one part: if a person knew nothing about this case or trial and were to have tuned in at any time over the last few days, they may not even realize it was a murder case. Martinez is screwing around with a long list of irrelevancies and getting far off the beaten path. Next thing you know, he’ll call Wayne Dyer to the stand. Or some of the porn models whose breasts were on Travis’ computer.

    Or maybe the two gas cans. I’d love to see him flapping around the courtroom trying to get a definitive answer out of either of them.

    I agree with you – I believe Martinez has known for some time he’s lost the case. AND MAKE THIS DISTINCTION: Kirk and Jennifer didn’t win this case. Martinez lost it.

    If I was on the jury, by now I would be so damn confused by all the shit he’s thrown at me. And I would be upset that after all this, he’s no closer to proving premeditation than he was on Day 1 and that he’s never suggested even a semi-plausible motive. If I was a juror, I’d be saying “How can I convict this person on premeditated murder? Because of gas cans and hair dye? Because Travis was going to Cancun without her?”

    Actually, as a juror, by now I would be considering Martinez hostile toward me and blame him for wasting weeks of my time. I bet at least one juror feels the same.

    I look forward to the day when Jodi can come to this site and read all the support we’ve given her.

  17. I’ve heard so much talk and theories about all this that follows, I can’t remember the facts and I don’t know exactly where in the videos of the trial to find them, so somebody help me if you can:

    1. Did an expert testify definitively as to the order of the wounds (i.e., determine as fact)? Gun or knife first? Throat slash last?

    2. Jodi maintains the gun was first, but weren’t there two shots? She said the first shot was “accidental,” but what about the second?

    3. Was it ever determined (or hypothesized) by an expert at what point during the stabbings did Travis die, if in fact he died during the stabbings? Like did they say that by #15 he had to be dead.

    4. What does Martinez say happened, in order, during the actual killing? Has he ever laid out an exact timeline of events? I’m sure he will in his closing argument, but I don’t know if he’s laid it out already.

    5. Did an expert testify as to the exact cause of death – blood loss, internal injuries from the knife, gun shots?

    I missed chunks of the first few weeks of the trial, so if anybody can fill in these above missing gaps for me I would appreciate it.

        • I agree, SarahP, you might want to apologize for your “wetback” remark. I enjoy the majority of your posts, and I think we all get angry and heated about this and say things… I am not sure if you realized that remark was hurtful. Please apologize and then continue posting 🙂

          • I have not seen that post-in-question – I enjoy the posts I have read from SarahP… this should be asked about or looked into further before jumping all over her, imo. People do get passionate about this subject.

      • Is everyone sure it was really SarahP that posted that?

        SarahP, you have upset some people, but I don’t see the post anywhere. You might want to check in case it wasn’t really your post.

        I choose to ignore posts I don’t approve of..

        • Ditto BeeCee!

          But lets give a person the benefit of the doubt… let’s all choose to believe she meant it is a “positive manner”. At least that is the place I’m jumping off from.

          • “But lets give a person the benefit of the doubt… let’s all choose to believe she meant it is a “positive manner”. ”

            Yes Bella, I try to do this too!

            Just because someone may say something in a negative descriptive manner, I do not immediately assume they are racist.

            I don’t know what the post was, but maybe it was an attempt at humor that went wrong.

            • Her post was:

              “I love how during sidebars, Martinez stands there slump-shouldered and with his hands in his pockets like a wetback standing outside a thrift shop waiting for the tamale wagon to roll into town.”

              • I don’t know what to say about that. That description makes me sad. And yet I also would not have bothered to pay attention to it.

                I still choose to think SarahP, if she really posted it, had a lapse and used poor decriptive terms and was trying to be funny, although I do not find it funny.

                this is exremely complicated because we really can’t joke about anything without someone getting offended. I make fun of Kermit’s size, but that does not mean I am prejudiced against little people..My step grandfather was little and I loved him very much. It doesn’t mean I hate frogs either. It simply means I am choosing to make fun of Martinez.

                I find it interesting that Whadoo, who I thought was banned, has somehow shown up to copy paste her post and publicly bash her.

                • SarahP simply has to woman up and admit her mistake plain and simple. If she cannot she needs to go on over to stromfront.org and post her racist rants there!

                • I didnt want to get into this but, I thought the same thing a out this whadoo person. I thk he/she is wanting to start something and they have. Iv read alot of sarahP comments and none sound like that. And the way it’s worded, it sounds like the person was trying to be funny against Martinez. Give her a break everyone has made fun of shorty. Im Puertorican and make fun of us all the time. But I guess everyone is different. I dont thk they meant any harm, lets move on and whadoo lets not start an argument over a joke.

          • Bella,

            I remember her saying that she writes sometimes in a manner that may seem inflammatory (paraphrased) but she never means to hurt anyone by it. (again paraphrased).

            I agree with you and BeeCee about giving her and others the benefit of the doubt. I’m sure she will address when she comes back online.

            • It may be in the phrasing or words she uses. Her manner may just be brisk and abrupt. I doubt she means it in the actual tone she is coming across in… Just my thoughts though. I write, re-write and then re-write yet again so I don’t come across as a wicked witch!

            • Thanks JC.

              Online communications are VERY different and difficult to accurately interpet at times because people use descriptive words without necessarily subscribing to the collective interpretation of that word, or even applying it to people other than the intended recipient, which is this case is KERMIT/MARTINEZ, NOT ANYONE ON THIS SITE.

              I think several people should look at Bella as a role model for online communications She has handled the anti Mormon posts with grace.

              • I concur about Bella. We are all passionate and get excited. Sometimes my fingers are flying so fast and hit “send” without thinking.

            • Well put, JC.
              Once corrected in a civil society, one always learns from one’s overheated offending mistakes.
              Peace.

        • ME TOO ! an PEOPLE should know it is not HARD to make up a PHONEY POST on these pages an copy an paste which irritates me. But WHY NOT SCROLL ON ??? I DO !

          I am a very defensive person an do not just jump when I see something I do investigate first because I have been in situations where people have said I said something that I did not in fact say nor post. Not here but another place before.

          • maybe I am too European, or maybe I just did not catch the insult within, but I saw no offense in Sarah’s post,
            lets face it worse things have been said here on this page…. for example lots of us have said not so nice things about Mr Martinez……so I am sure that Sarah tried to be funny and overlooked the fact that maybe someone could have felt insulted. Sarah has not addressed anyone else personally besides Mr Martinez in her post.
            Maybe people have been offended by the fact Mr M has been called Kermit here and just went ahead and read over it.
            There is some irony within the fact that something like this would be happening on this page, here where are believing that Jodi is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt..

            • It wasn’t SarahP who made the post, just a hateful troll….

              But “Kermit” is nothing compared to the racist word used in that post. It is the equivalent of the “n” word for a black individual or the “k” word for a Jewish individual. Highly offensive.

            • Its Martinez’s antics and tactics that should be condemned, not his ETHNICITY!! This is 2013 God Damn it and words like “wetback”, “spic”, “nigger”, “kike”, and other slurs have no place being uttered, particularly at a website seeking justice for a innocent woman!

              SarahP should at least have the balls to say she is sorry if she offended anyone but she’s just too inmature and yellow. She ought to go join the Girl Scouts or Brownies because she’s yet to become a woman.

  18. Im curious does anyone have any idea if Mr. Mccartney will be testifying in Jodi’s defense? I think his testimony is her only avenue left to convince the jury not to convict her of 1st degree murder. Confused

    • Hey James, I would be very surprised to see the defense call him. Martinez eluded to MM’s testimony hurting Jodi. The State may just be playing a game of legal ‘chicken’ but it might be a risky move for the defense to call him as a witness. It would be interesting, though!

      • the people on the TA site say he is turning states evidence for testimony. However, they do not “know” this, they “speculate” this.

        • If he does, that would be low as hell considering what he posted here in support of Jodi. If he turns on her, he is a lowlife.

      • Im leaning towards thinking Mr. Mccartney will possibly be a witness for the state because of the hidden messages in the two magazines that were meant for him. Defense should call him as a witness and call Martinez’ bluff if he is indeed bluffing.

        • “hidden messages in the two magazines that were meant for him.”

          I don’t remember seeing this established as fact anywhere that the messages were to him.

          • I don’t either… but little man kept saying “are you SURE Matt would never betray you….”

            which could be a whole lot of bluffing on Martinez’ part, but also kind of felt like a warning…

  19. Has anyone else read this? It’s an interesting look into the minds of the jurors in another of JM’s cases: the famous Mormon Murder Trial a/k/a The Doug Grant case:

    “Julie and the rest of the panel — even the strongest of the first-degree murder adherents — didn’t believe in Juan Martinez’s last-second speculation about what had happened, that Doug Grant had held his drugged-up wife over the edge of the bathtub and forced her head underwater until he thought she was dead.

    She says she told her fellow jurors, “Why at the end of the trial is Mr. Martinez telling us this now, with really nothing to back him up? At a time when no one can ask a question and the defense can’t argue the point. If he thinks he has such a strong case, why now?”

    As days of deliberation slipped away, the jury decided to “focus on was what happened in the bathroom and immediately afterward.”

    Hmmmm … the verdict for Doug Grant, eventually, was manslaugher, which was their compromise. But I found it interesting that they did NOT believe JM’s speculation, suspected his motives at the end, and focused on what really happened — or, at least, what they had evidence of.

    • Did Jodi Arias ever tell anyone she was visiting Travis his Friends hers etc.
      I do not think that Jodi Arias would be so stupid as to steal her Grandfathers Gun, and use it in a murder.Since it was reported missing. What else was taken from her Grandparents home?
      Who had knowledge that her Grandparents had a Gun? She made it clear that she was aware of Photography in reference to retrieving photos, why would she take the Gun The Knife and not the Camera. Lets say on a wild hunch she is set up.by who I can’t say. But the evidence is way too convenient.
      The reason they do not kill her is so she takes the Fall. They manipulate the evidence to make her look guilty. May sound wild but from the comments I have read and the amount of Power Mormon Church has in Mesa. One can’t help but wonder why all the Jodi Trashing by the Media. The Media Blitz is strange the networks calling Dr. Samuel’s “JODI’S SHRINK”

      • So glad someone else feels like I do on this. I feel alone a lot. Thanks Oliviero…………..when I have brought up some things like that some how I get ridiculed about being a conspiracy nut ! an it really pisses me off. As though everything in LIFE is a freaking FAIRY TALE ! right ? NOT…………….as they say regular people start a story off by ONCE UPON A TIME……………….TRUCK DRIVERS (me) Start a story of by YOU AIN”T GOING TO BELIEVE this BS !

        • Rhonda Its strange I vacillate due to Jodi’s Testimony and physical evidence but, Then I recalled F.Lee Baileys ability to disprove evidence not presented and in his cross examination of a Police Officer he asked if they dusted foot prints, that cannot be seen with the naked eye, and also how when detectives etc. Jump to conclusions the evidence can be tainted. Was the Crime Scene Secure? Did they question others? Were there others in the home? You would be surprised how evidence can be tainted etc. I think Travis would have put up a bigger fight she should have been very bruised, They say adrenaline was pumping but so was his. I just do not think she is that stupid. Pictures Left of her there a Hair on the wall, a Bloody Palm Print, seems pretty convenient.
          All she left out was a note saying Jodi was here. Too obvious.

          • Yes I agree with you on all of that too. I went an watched that F. Lee Bailey clip an was thinking the same things. We know that house was not secure by any means an only held on too for 3 DAYS ! that is insane. A scene like that? I simply can’t believe they let it go back to the family that fast. An the photo’s were not as many as some crime scenes I have looked at to me it was under photographed sloppy job because they thought it was a open an shut case I truly believe they thought that.

            • Bailey is great 79 years old but what he did and notice in one of the clips when he questioned the police officer (he was very polite( he brought out that there are foot prints that cannot be seen with the naked eye) his questions were great. Also the Officer didn’t know the police manual and procedure.

    • Another piece here in that Doug G. Jury story (see link above) that caught my eye was re: the CONDUCT OF THE POLICE DETECTIVE – LYING!!

      — Quote…

      One reason, she says, was that “the Gilbert police investigation was horrible. I really didn’t like [lead investigator] Sergeant [Sy] Ray. He lied to a lot of people, and personally, I totally did not like that. The police are our caretakers in society, and we have to be able to trust them. The lying feeds into my feelings about him generally.”

      Julie and the rest of the panel — even the strongest of the first-degree murder adherents — didn’t believe in Juan Martinez’s last-second speculation about what had happened, that Doug Grant had held his drugged-up wife over the edge of the bathtub and forced her head underwater until he thought she was dead.

      She says she told her fellow jurors, “Why at the end of the trial is Mr. Martinez telling us this now, with really nothing to back him up? At a time when no one can ask a question and the defense can’t argue the point. If he thinks he has such a strong case, why now?”

      — Unquote

      In the JA/TA trial, we have FL*RES who has lied!! Were the Jurors present when KN proved that he had committed PERJURY re. the statements on the sequence of events (Gunshot first vs. Knife wounds)? Didn’t Fl*res state on XE that he did it just to help get the case to DP? Well, I think knowing how a past jury reacted to a police officer lying, KN should pound it in!!!

      Pointing out the Prosc’s ulterior motive (which is getting to DP no matter what, even if it meant distorting the facts) and focussing on the physical evidence the way J. Baez had pointed out, everything else (JA’s multiple stories, the good doc’s testimony and JA’s PTSD, etc) would be a moot point.

  20. I wonder when this nightmare will end for Jodi. She has lost so much weight from being in prison for so long, waiting for her trial to start. I hope that when this ends, that Jodi will be victorious and set free. This is the first trial I’ve watched from beginning to end, which in the beginning if you are listening, watching, reading about this case in the media, it looked as if it would be an open and shut case. But as I have followed this trial, I realize the only thing I am certain of is that Jodi is NOT guilty, Travis was one messed up MOFO, and there is a hidden agenda with Juan Martinez. I mean is this what our justice department has become?! A huge field where instead of taking a consideration on who is innocent or guilty but it’s become a political game room of a lot of players (ie lawyers, prosecutors, judges, etc) to see who wields the most power and how that power will get them what they want, or help them up the status ladder. It’s quite sad, that it took the Mesa system five years of Jodi being in jail, when technically, she is being held for a crime that she is innocent of. I hope that the jury have more sense then the JM or Judge Stephens and see this for what it is, see the truth that is staring them in the face and stop this nonsense of these stupid political games.

      • I don’t think it’s fair to play with one’s life that way. For Jodi, this is life or death for her even if she doesn’t get the death penalty! I watched a special at the prison location she is in Mesa County and it’s horrible. And the show was about the female prison, and it was still horrible to watch. When you are innocent like Jodi, I mean how do they expect her to defend for herself in such a place as the county jail she is forced to stay in?!

    • I too worry about her UnderstandingOne.Both her physical and mental health-this thing is wearing her out.

  21. I love JW’s expression in that photo. You can see how fed up she is with JM’s antics!
    Great article, as always, SJ. Have a good weekend, everyone!

      • YES! She seems to be a very ethical attorney and I doubt she has come up against these kinds of antics before. Look at what Dr. Samuels said about being thrown by JM. And he’s had LOTS of experience in courts as an expert witness.

  22. MARTINEZ is the standard unsavory prosecutorial zealot with a grab bag of dirty tricks, enabled by an apparently inexperienced, perhaps “law and order” judge.

    ONE of his dirty tricks is to cast a personal slur on a witness, by frequently and maliciously asserting, without foundation that the witness has a poor memory.
    HE pulls this trick when a witness give any testimony adverse to his swiss cheese narrative. HE uses these unsupported improper psychological attacks simply to rattle a witness, instead of confronting the witness with contrary evidence.
    A skilled, and unbiased judge would have stopped these improper personal slurs cold.

    ANOTHER of this little man’s vindictive “tricks” is ask a question, then interrupt the answer.
    AS soon as the question is asked, the bell has been rung, so the answer must be heard, subject to it remaining relevant etc.

    .ANOTHER of martinez’s dirty tricks, which the judge improperly permits has been to constrain a witness to a yes/no answer, when there was ambiguity in the question This allows the prosecutor to twist, or distort the evidence presented to the jury.

    ANOTHER of martinez’s dirty tricks, or tactics, permitted the judge stephens, is bullying, and yelling at all those giving adverse testimony.

    HER job is, as an independent umpire, neither to favor the prosecution, nor the defense, guided by the law, including the rules of evidence.

    I read an earlier post, which i can’t find, that this is judge stephen’s first murder trial, and that a high proportion of adverse trial verdicts in arizona are overturned on appeal.

    UNFORTUNATELY this is a capital case.
    SUBORDINATE to that, it is also important for justice, for fairness, for due process, for the rule of law, for Arizona, the US, and for the Constitution.

    I know nothing of judge stephens background, and i am not sufficiently knowledgeable to assess all of her rulings, but i see that the prosecutors dirty tricks have been permitted, and that raises the alarm.

    ARIZONA has much to answer in the training of its judges, if this is level of serious prosecutorial abuse and misbehavior is permitted.

    BASED on the evidence i’ve heard, from the telephone call, and large parts of subsequent testimony, i remain unwavering in my conclusion, or verdict:

    I BELIEVE JODI, her account rings true, Jodi justifiably defended herself by killing Travis Alexander, a person who i view as a violent predator, who had previously almost killed her [ choking incident ] [ Did he kill her, then resuscitate her ?]
    SHE DEFENDED HER LIFE.
    SHE WAS JUSTIFIED IN USING DEADLY FORCE.
    IT WAS A JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE.
    Read the two short sections together: 13-404 A. and 13-405
    I believe these are probably the relevant statutory provisions.
    http://www.azleg.gov/arizonarevisedstatutes.asp?title=13

    • My “favorite” JM tactic is the “Isn’t it true that ____?”, when he knows full well that the witness is going to say it isn’t true. He is basically giving testimony here, disguising a statement as a question. The witness must say “No, that isn’t true”, but with no chance to say what IS true. And it puts them in the position of disagreeing with someone – Martinez – who is supposed to be an authority figure – or at least might appear to be one to some of the more gullible jury members. Martinez doesn’t need to have any factual basis for the question, no evidence to back up what, according to his statement, must be true. He does it constantly, and every time it makes me want to poke his eyes out.

      I’d be curious to hear from someone with a legal background about these kinds of things. I’d especially like to know the legal background regarding a lawyer demanding a yes or no answer. How is it that a lawyer can presume to dictate the form of a witness’s answer? If I were on the stand and he did that to me, I would refuse to answer and end up in contempt of court….

      • Oh, that tactic gets on my last nerve!

        “Isn’t it TRUE that dogs can fly?”

        “No, it isn’t true. Dogs can’t…”

        “Just answer the question! YES or NO!!!!”

        • Or you know…the classic example of him making an affirmative statement and adding ”right?” at the end of it! Why on Earth does he do that??Does he really think that if someone on the stand is telling the truth they are going to change their testimony just because he adds that word at the end of an ERRONEOUS statement??
          I’m telling you,JM has ruined the word ”right” for me for good!!

      • Me too, Wes. I think i might just totally shut down or else let my indigation get the better of me so much that id start screaming belligerant sarcastic retorts back at him until the judge was forced to hold me in contempt. Really enjoyed your analysis in this post breaking down and describing the underlying mechanism of this particular tactic of his and how it works.

      • Michael L. on forcing a “yes or no” answer
        the law and material dealing criminal trials in general is vast
        nolo has this brief article on criminal trial procedures
        http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/criminal-trial-procedures-overview-29509.html

        As to the specific question you asked, the closest two answers i found are:

        http://www.paynemitchell.com/objectfiles/PMLG.Web.Data.Publication/6/Cross%20Examination.pdf
        At page 9
        Techniques That Don’t Work
        “Just Answer Yes or No”
        Television, movies, and, unfortunately, some trial skill programs in law school have encouraged trial lawyers to fall back on the command “just answer my question yes or no” as a method of controlling the runaway witness. This is not a valid controlling technique. First, most judges will not permit the lawyer to do that. Most judges will inform the witness that they may explain their answer, at length if necessary.
        Second, and more importantly, this signals the jury that the cross-examiner is not playing fair. The lack of choice given the witness suggests to the jury that the lawyer is trying to “trick” the witness.
        Non-lawyers resent this heavy-handed attempt to strait jacket the witness. To them it appears that the lawyer is attempting to “put word s in the witness’s mouth.” A lawyer resorting to this method lowers both credibility and control. Credibility is the paramount feature of the successful trial lawyer.
        When the trial lawyer loses his or her credibility, the case is lost. Credibility is severely damaged when you utter the words “just answer my question yes or no.” There are no two schools of thought on this issue:
        Don’t do it.

        next,
        http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=LAW+CRIMINAL+CROSS+EXAMINATION+IMPROPRIETY+OF+DEMANDING+YES+NO+ANSWERS&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&ved=0CFMQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.loc.gov%2Frr%2Ffrd%2FMilitary_Law%2Fpdf%2FCrim-Law-Deskbook-Winter_2011-2012_Vol-3.pdf&ei=sNFMUYb1GIXWygG36YHADQ&usg=AFQjCNF41ihMRwjLKFtIxAkUm-nlYZUJpw
        Page 86 under
        WITNESS CHECKLIST
        f. Don’t be bullied into a yes or no answer if the question can’t be answered by yes or no.

        jodi’s lawyers have objected to martinez demands for yes/no answers, and then judge stephens rulings have improperly forced, or only allowed, yes/no answers.

    • Wes,

      You are absolutely right about JM!!!! But how is it that Judge Stephens allows it in her court?! That’s what makes me crazy!!!!!!

    • Great post, Wes, thank you.

      You might be interested in the Lethality Assessment Program developed at John Hopkins in Maryland and now, finally spreading to the rest of the country. When developing this tool, it was found that choking, even more than other signs, is a very serious high risk sign of future lethality. You can see a sample assessment on page 3 of the following link:

      http://www.marylandpatientsafety.org/html/education/solutions/2011/documents/Lethality%20Assessment%20Program_F.pdf

  23. Where can I find a floor plan / drawing of the entire upstairs of Travis’s house? I am curious to see the location of the roommates bedrooms/bathroom in relation to Travis’s bathroom and where he was lying.

    Also, just googling trying to find that photo I went through the crime scene photos again of him in the shower. I’ve always felt like something just wasn’t right with those photos. His poses are not Calvin Klein sexy type photos. It’s almost as if he knew he was going to die and he was washing his body. I don’t know… they have just never seemed “right” to me.

        • scrappydoo, whatever happened to the “rumor” that Travis was doing some kind or protection prayer/ritual? I say rumor, because I never saw that information myself.

          Does anyone know?

          I have thought some of the poses were a bit off too…I do believe he knew she was taking photos.

    • I don’t know…if I knew that I was going to die, I’d be scared shitless and wouldn’t be worried about washing my body.

      • I am kind of with BeeCee that it seemed like some kind of prayer/ritual. His arms crossed over his chest etc. They just don’t seem like “posed” pictures.

        I really want to find a sketch of the floor plan of the whole upstairs. I want to see where the roommates rooms are in relation to where Travis was decomposing.

    • Scrappydoo,

      I agree that those pictures supposedly taken by Jodi, of TA in the shower, do not pass the “smell test,” pun intended.

      I know Jodi was using an unfamiliar camera, but the photographic quality, itself, is so poor as to be worthy of deleting the images as useless for the supposed purpose of documenting TA’s recent accomplishment of toning his physique.

      BTW, his recent body building regime likely might have included supplements that exacerbate rage. Jodi reported that TA’s rampages were in the process of escalating in frequency and force.

      Also, the so-called “crime photos,” what is up with the terrible quality of every single one of them.

      Let alone, as someone else commented, that there are not nearly enough crime scene photos for the investigation to be taken seriously.

      Chelion

      • The poor quality could be because the camera went through the washer. As for quality photography.. I’m not seeing it. It’s just odd. I’ve thought the pictures were odd the first time I saw them.

    • Yep, I posted it above. I wonder if it is to stop people from wearing blue ribbons? I have heard TAs supporters are planning to all wear blue to court Monday as a show of a “sea of Travis support” maybe they want to stop that? I dont know…or maybe it was from those ladies saying to Jodi’s mom that they wish she was dead?

      • I agree with the families wearing of ribbons. I how ever do not agree with the blatant flouting of the Judge’s order. The judge is the ultimate determining factor as to what is or is not a mitigating factor in her court room. I also would like to believe if anyone on Jodi’s team/side chose to wear an open display of support I would hope it would be as agreed upon as the support ribbons for Travis’s side.

        • I agree with the ribbons for Travis’ family ONLY, as they are directly affected by his loss and aren’t strangers who are caught up in the public lynch mob. There should be no “sea of blue” allowed and the judge needs to drive that point home.

          • “There should be no “sea of blue” allowed and the judge needs to drive that point home.”

            I agree Kira, because I think it turns the court procedings into a game. That’s what people do for football teams, not for an ongoing in court death penalty case.

          • EXactly, Kira!
            I think this has been brewing for quite awhile, actually, cuz i remember when i first read posts from a travis supporter on WS getting cozy with TAs family and victim advocate when she first started being a spectator in court, and family gave her ribbon to wear and iirc it was pointed out was only legit for family members to wear these due to possibility of inviting appellate issues, then as time went on, more ta supporters joined this person and of course they wanted to wear “victim support” ribbons too, and there were murmurings that oh this might rile defense oh my, maybe they might have to remove their sophomoric little clique member status symbols oh goid gracious no (!) , but the defense team never even seemed to NOTICE their ploy for attention, so i hoped it would just blow over…. IMO they’ve been BAITING the defense team with this for quite a long time and are probably jumping up and down in glee that someone finally took notice of yheir blue ribbons. Sickening.

          • I don’t think there should be any whatever symbolic ribbon anywhere, and no popcorn or gum and whatever else brings ANY DISTRACTION CREATED BY THE AUDIENCE in that courtroom. Okay, so people can fart if it’s not too frequent. Puking apparently stopped the proceedings.

            I hold the judge responsible for not establishing respect in the court.

        • This trial is for justice based on the evidence. Whether or not a victim has a large gallery of supporters should be disregarded by the jury. To do otherwise is to say that someone who is homeless or without supporters deserves less justice. Any distraction to the jury should be disallowed. This is not a football game

            • I agree with joujoubaby! What ”sea of blue”?? The ribbons dont sit well with me either,to be honest! The Jury is supposed to remain undistracted,objective,non sentimental.I cannot see this happening what with the ribbons and now the blue clothing!
              I can understand the pain of the loss but this is a courtroom,evidence and facts are presented.Justice is supposed to be served.When was all this turned into a visual show?Sorry,just my opinion.

  24. SO- I have largely avoided the TA sites, but I see that they are doing some serious hand-wringing about the way this trial is going….

    Now they have no trial things to discuss, so each and every post is nothing more than discussing how Jodi is a whore, a three hole wonder, a slut.

    Obviously, this is a big joke to them.

    WHY do these people hate women? WHY do they hate America and due process?

    WHY do I even ask these questions… they are media minions and just like after the Casey Anthony verdict, when Saint Ashton blew it, they will be eating crow.

    • I have noticed that most of the “kill jodi” supporters are older woman who sit on their couch all day eating twinkies. Go look at their facebook pics you’ll see. Just sayin. They have a vendetta against other woman, lol.

      • I have. Real scary bunch a lot of them. I have noticed that about 90% of the posting is the same 10 or so people.. and their FB profiles look scary. I am waiting to see one threatening death and dismemberment so that I can copy and paste and send to their employer. These fools do not realize they are leaving all that info out to the public. The first time I see a “professional” saying disgusting things, I plan on telling their employer. If they can try to get the doctors license took away, they need to keep their side of the street clean.

        • Renee’

          We do not need to stoop to their level. Karma has her own way of delivering justice, far more devastating and swiftly than we can. We are better than that. We have more compassion, more sense and a far better life than they can imagine. They will have to deal with the fallout weather or not we seek vengeance.

          • I know you’re right, Bella…. but just let me have my revenge fantasies.. I wont actually do anything. I just want them to stop and think about their behavior. And if one of them lurkers here sees that, maybe they will be a little less violent in their public posts.

            • Oh yes it will come back as in to be a JUROR if those things were ever found which is not hard for a snooper to hunt down comments made they will never be on a jury thank GOD for that. An it should be reported if in fact it is a Professional acting like a Lynch Mob.

    • I continue to be completely and utterly appalled by women (even nice women) who say they were victims of domestic violence and yet they can not even relate to Jodi one bit. I just don’t understand this at all.

      • I wonder if some might want to depict themselves as the survivor who suffered the most, yet did not ‘kill’ their attacker, so they can be viewed as a true saint. They may also want to distance themselves from Jodi’s image painted by the media, especially because they perceive the similarities but are afraid of the backlash.
        And perhaps their experience does not quite match the cult-like and love bombing that entrapped Jodi.
        Then again, many of them might be fakers who suffered little or no abuse.
        You might be able to tell which is which by reading their stories of abuse, and how it compares to Jodi’s.

        • I absolutely HATE to say this, but having been a member of several domestic abuse survivors groups on FB over the past couple of years, we have encountered some fakers. We never want to confront them at first because none of us were believed, and we know it’s the WORST feeling in the world. But then, their stories begin to disintegrate and/or they can NOT keep track of their lies. They talk to different people individually telling each person different stories, never thinking we will all get together and compare stories. That usually happens quite innocently where one of us is talking to another and we say “Isn’t that awful, what happened to ….” and the other person says “Oh no, you have it wrong, this is what happened.” And then, we compare a few other things, like whether they live in a mansion or a 2-bedroom apartment, whether they have 3 kids or 2. Stupid little things that they lie about. Or they lie about things we know about from court. They seem to forget that there might be someone in the group who (although they’ve relocated) went through criminal court with their abuser or divorce in the EXACT same area they’re claiming to be going through it in, and when things don’t add up, they just don’t. I’ve kind of figured out that some of them seem to crave attention and getting into a domestic abuse group is a good way to get it.

          There was one woman who claimed to be an attorney (like that isn’t hard to check) and she actually was abused. But she turned into a very abusive person herself and was very mean to other women — not to mention all her lies.

          But then, there are some women who are genuine survivors and yet, for some reason, they just can’t seem to feel any empathy for Jodi, and I don’t understand it at all. I suspect a lot of it is because they were married with kids and the custody battle was absolute hell, so they don’t relate to someone dating an abuser, whereas they were married. I don’t know and it is driving me crazy that some people I have shared a lot with just get into arguments with me on the subject of Jodi.

          • I had a FB conversation with a “kill-Jodi” mentality person, I’ll call her Jane Doe, who claimed she herself had been abused. The thrust of Doe’s argument was that in comparison to what she had been through, Jodi’s experience was minor so Jodi should have just sucked it up because it wasn’t really all that bad. Sort of like an “I can top that story” attitude.

            On another issue, I gave up watching HLN, but had watched for a few days just to be informed of what that side was saying until it became too offensive to listen to anymore. But, I swear at least two of the jury questions for Samuels were almost direct quotes from Nancy Grace. I actually stood up and moved closer to the television. It was stunning.

            • Thank you Rebecca, thank you so much. I’ve had many of the same conversations with women who were abused. I’ve also been told that Jodi could have left, could have ended the relationship, but they (the Jane Does) were married by the time the abuse started and had children, therefore, they had no choice. I never had children with my ex (I wanted kids, but unbeknownst to me, he had a vasectomy before we were married), so I always feel inadequate arguing that point about my own marriage. But the one thing that strikes me is that we all dated them BEFORE we married them. Some of us lived with them. There were red flags that we chose not to see, or glossed over, or ignored, or whatever. Many of us had “abuse” BEFORE we married them (some of us had physical abuse, others mental, emotional, verbal). But we STILL married them.

              I was never choked, which is one of the most egregious forms of abuse, and one of the most lethal. My teeth were never knocked out. My eye was blackened only once, inadvertently when he pushed me into a light switch, but he never punched me in the face. He never split my lip or broke my jaw with a punch. The only bone he broke was in my toe which he stomped on. Does that make my abuse any less than anyone else’s? Should I have waited until he abused me physically even worse than he did? Because if I had, I wouldn’t be here today to speak about it. I’d be dead.

              Some women are abused “worse” physically indeed. Others are abused “worse” emotionally, verbally, financially. It’s all abuse. Do we really need “degrees of abuse”? How can anyone say their story “tops” another? I’ve seen this attitude in abuse survivor groups online. I’ve seen them say “Do you have photos? Here are mine.” And yes, a picture tells a thousand words. But those of us with invisible scars or mostly invisible scars are telling the same story.

              I don’t even have a bent finger, like Jodi. I have a very faint burn scar on my breast, only visible in certain light, from where he put my own curling iron to my breast. And I have a very faint scar above my lip from something he threw at me which hit me there. When I drink red wine or coffee, it tends to settle there if I’m not careful. Otherwise, you’d never notice. I have a hole in my leg from a brown recluse spider bite for which he refused to take me to the doctor and insisted on treating himself, which consisted of multiple and repeated agonizing lancing of the huge swelling, while I screamed, because he really loved draining the green pus and tasting it. That actually turned him on. But my little physical scars could easily be explained away as my own clumsiness.

              Then am I any less abused than a woman with surgical scars and photos of black eyes? Is Jodi? That’s the big question no one seems to want to answer. No one other than those of us here, that is. Those of us who relate. Why is that?

    • Seems like Misogyny is very accepted by this group. The truth is rearing its ugly head. Too much documentation with the same stories and cover ups

      • You’re so right, Oliviero. It’s rampant in our society today. But no one wants to talk about. Because to do so, you need corroboration — unarguable proof. How do you get that?

  25. I don’t like to bash victims of any kind, but these people singing praises to what a wonderful person Travis is kind of makes me nauseous. Travis led a double life. To his friends and family he was this saintly virgin Mormon boy who would never hurt a fly, but in his other life he was a sex addicted abusive man who had no respect for Jodi at all. He kept her as his punching bag when things went wrong in his life. No telling what Travis did that no one knows about. I think Jodi is innocent of first degree murder and I think she should be found innocent, but sadly the media is going to be her downfall. This jury isn’t sequestered and they are watching this unfold on tv and online imo. I just hope they know they have a person’s life in their hands and don’t buy into the media hype.

    • I do not believe all those sisters believe that crap. This type of behavior from a man starts early an within the family. My brother is like that an there is no way I would stand up for him in court an say otherwise. I would in fact stand up for any woman that ever wants me too. As in I know how he is I know an have seen his disturbing ways around previous women in his life. I do not believe all that family thinks he was a Saint they just are too ashamed an want to be perfect. Shame on them for Bearing False Witness which is a SIN !

      • I love love love your posts Rhonda. I always have. Reading your posts here initially, while I lurked, prompted me to post. You’re always so honest, and you shoot from the hip, and I so admire that. I had a little hero worship going on of your posts from my early days here (I still do). I remember the first time you commented back on one of my posts, and I was so happy. I felt accepted because you commented back. Sorry, just had to admit that! 😀

        I really appreciate your honesty about your brother so much. I think that’s the most difficult thing for a family to see about one of their members. I couldn’t understand why my ex’s family NEVER reached out to help me, even when I begged. Since I don’t know a damn thing about family relationships, I had to ask others. I asked one female friend who has 3 brothers. She said she would NEVER EVER believe her brothers had been abusive. They weren’t perfect, she knew that. But ABUSIVE? Pfffft. I asked her if she saw photos, would she believe then. She said no. What if she witnessed abuse? She said she’d still think it was an isolated occurrence. These were her BROTHERS, she told me.

        I asked the same of another friend, my Evangelical Christian friend. She has several brothers. She thinks the world of them. She thinks that her youngest brother, who has never married, is a 46 year old virgin, because sex before marriage is not something her family members would readily engage in. She didn’t. One of her sisters “gave in” the night before her wedding, and told her sisters. Then, my friend said, she had doubts walking down the aisle, as to whether or not her husband was truly a virgin. Her sister also worried that her betrothed would show up. After all, he’d now had the “milk”, so he didn’t need to buy the “cow”. But no, she could not even imagine, in her wildest dreams, that her precious brothers could EVER have been abusive to women. And yet, it seems, she took to heart my lack of understanding about my ex’s family.

        Later, some things one of her brother’s wives said on FB made her start to wonder. She called her and asked her point blank whether or not he had ever abused her. She denied it, whether it’s true or not. She saw the signs of isolation and desperation … the same signs I had shown her, and she dared to ask. But I was very proud of my friend that she actually asked.

  26. One more thing..Does anyone else believe that maybe it is Travis’s family and friends leading this crusade online to destroy Jodi’s credibility? I do. I think they are all over facebook and other sites downing her every chance they get.

      • If it comes to that, so will I. I want someone who loves her(unconditionally) to be there if the absolute worst thing that can ever happen to her does. I want her to see a calm face, a person who holds no malice not ill will toward her. A person who honestly believes she will see her Father in Heaven and HE will welcome her home. If she has to leave this world that way, I will support her to whatever end she meets.

        Please don’t misread this. I pray daily for her Justice. But if the worst happens, I will go with her, as a friend, as a Sister(in the church) and in support of her. I am not morbid or weird, and I will stand next to Travis’s family with no difficulty or fear.

        • I understand what you are saying. That is very big of you. I couldnt handle it myself, it would kill me, But it is comforting to hear that someone kind would be there FOR her at the single worst event of her life–the end of it.

          • I cried too,Kira.Actually I skimmed through all this thread-I refuse to even begin to imagine Jodi on a death row let alone the actual day of….not even gonna write the word.No way!Jodi doesnt deserve and wont receive the DP.Ouch,this really hurts 🙁

        • “I want her to see a calm face, a person who holds no malice not ill will toward her.”

          I hope it never gets to that…

          but I would think you would find a way to tell her you are there in support?? Otherwise she may think you hate her like the rest?

          • I will go and see Jodi when this is all over. Whether or not it is in jail or where ever she calls home. She needs to know there are people who can love her (despite what has happened), from the church, and in general. She deserves love, she needs to know she is worthy of a good and honest love.

            I can say I have deep empathy for Travis’s family. I cannot imagine the pain of losing their brother (or however he was related to each of them). I have lost many people (my father at 15, my mother at 27, my grandfather and so many others) and each one I miss in my own way and for very different reasons. I imagine for Travis’s family it is much the same.

            I can honestly say that if Jodi is found guilty she will most likely be excommunicated. It saddens me to unbelievable extent. Specific doctrine states: “Excommunication is generally reserved for what are seen as the most serious sins, including committing serious crimes like murder or child abuse and incest; committing adultery, polygamy, or homosexual conduct; apostasy, abortion, teaching false doctrines, or openly criticizing LDS leaders”. Unfortunately, this will happen. While I love my church and support it fully, I think that for Jodi, given all of the circumstances contributing to her Baptism and membership, she may wish to be excommunicated. While I believe she is a good person, with a good heart it might be a clean start and a fresh page for her to start writing her new story of her life on.

        • Omg Bella… your such a nice person! !! You’d be there, but you WOULDN’T be there with/for the same purpose others would be there. You know that and I, we know that.

          Tell me something, do you think that if/when Jodi is set free, will she be accepted in the Mormon community or will she be excommunicated? ?? Not what YOU would want to happen, I know what the outcome would be if it was up to you. But the reality, would she be excommunicated? ??

          • Thanks LC. I know you and I didn’t/don’t always see eye to eye, but I do respect you and your posts. LC, you have made me think and ponder more deeply, as many of you here have allowed/made(forced) me to, in both good and not so good ways. I appreciate all of the people here. My world is a bigger and better place as all of you are in it!

    • Definitely, and thats why I just CANT have sympathy for them!!! If the were given the chance without having to pat any consequences, they’d torture Jodi in a heartbeat.

    • The friends, yes, absolutely. Chris Hughes and Dave Hall post on the State vs. Jodi Arias Facebook page with inflammatory comments. I haven’t seen much online from the family except “thanks for your support” type posts.

      • You only have to GOOGLE the sisters name they have posted on BLOGS an went on TV stating they WANT DEATH!

  27. Sick people.It could have been the other way around where Travis were on trail.Would they be wearing blue ribbons then.

  28. I posted this just a bit ago on yesterdays page in response to some folks there, but figured I’d do it here again since this seems to be the current page:

    Cindy

    There are two answers to your question.

    1. The legalistic answer: I have not seen anything provided up as evidence to the contrary. So the only evidence we have is that this was all done by Jodi, and Jodi alone. In fact there is evidence, as provided by Dr. Samuels that given the state she was in she was probably capable of doing this all on her own.

    2. And then there is what I believe. I think she did do this all on her own. I think that the shot came first.I can see the following scenario. TA charged at her and she shot him, just like she testified. She was knocked out and winded. He got up an went to the mirror to inspect the damage, hence the aspirated blood spatter. She came to and went over to look. He started cussing and threatening. She picked up the knife, which was on the bathroom vanity. He came at her and tackled her, she started flailing away with the knife. This accounts for the impact wounds on his head and also on his back. It is supported by the impact blood spatter in that part of the bathroom. I’m sure they tussled on the floor for a bit. I believe the ceiling photo probably happened then. She got up and started moving away back towards the hallway. In fact the “dragging” picture could have happened when she stood up and his upraised arm is TA trying to grab her. I believe this part happened close to the door to the closet. She probably went into the hallway and was probably near the door to the bedroom when he accosted her again. She probably stabbed him in the chest there. He went down on all fours but was still alive and that is when she cut his throat. I believe they both had immense amounts of adrenaline rushing through their systems, which is what kept all this going. That is also what allowed her to drag the body into the shower. The rest of it, washing the body, trying to clean up etc were a case of “Oh my God, what have I done, I gotta fix this.” This probably went on till some part of her subconscious mind said, “get the Hell out of here” and she ran.

    But yes I do believe she did this all on her own. I have heard all these stories about Mormon Atonement rituals etc. I don’t really buy those. While all those may be possible, being scientist has led me to be a firm believer in Occam’s razor. That just says that the simplest hypothesis is the most likely explanation for a problem. In this particular case the most likely scenario, and the simplest to explain is the one I just outlined.

    Here’s my problem with the roommate theory. Let’s assume on of the roommates was involved. They would have had 5 days to clean up the mess, get TAs body out to the desert somewhere and go about their business. When asked why they didn’t notice his absence they would have just said they thought he went to Cancun, and didn’t know any different. If you believe that one of the roommates did it, you also have to believe that they lived in the house for 5 days with the body just lying there, with full knowledge of the fact that the body was there, and if someone came looking it would be found there. That just stretches credibility. I know there is this issue of them living there with the stench. I have no answer for that, other than maybe they are just idiots. All I can say is that if they were in on the act, and the stench started rising, and they were cognizant of the stench they would have taken that body away, or called the cops and pretended. So, no, I don’t buy that. I also don’t buy some big Mormon, PPL conspiracy.

    The thing about conspiracies is that in any event, spread out over a number of days, where evidence is collected by humans and some of that evidence is based on the recollections and reporting of humans, there are always discrepancies and other crossings of fact and assumption that can be used to concoct a conspiracy theory for just about anything. Which is why, in almost every event, there are always one or two explanations that are based on conspiracies of some kind. Its almost like the Kevin Bacon seven degrees of separation syndrome. You could probably take anyone in this world and connect him to any event in this world through just a few stretches of the imagination.

    I think the MEs testimony is a little shaky about the brain etc. At times he claims it was too decomposed to make any sense of it. At other times it seems based on the claims of others, though I didn’t hear it, that there was no blood found in the brain. So I don’t know.

    • Al, I agree with this theory, it it the most plausible. The ME can be impeached by the autopsy report. In the report it says the dura mater is intact!!. This is a thick protective covering surrounding the brain. The bullet could not have entered the brain without first going through the dura mater. Hense no bleeding in the brain, because it was not damaged. The aspirated blood is from the bullet going through the sinsuses. There is no other wound that would have created aspirated blood. Once the vena cava was cut, TA would have only 4 to 10 minutes, depending on how badly it was cut. I think the throat cut came last and my husband showed me how that could happen with TA ontop of JA, because as JA testified he wouldn’t stop and just kept coming after her. Also I wonder how many times JA’s head hit the tile floor. She did say in response to a jury question, the back of her head was hurt. And that could also account for memory loss.

    • Excellent post, Al. I too am a scientist and think in terms of Occam’s Razor, so this may be why your scenario seems most plausible to me.

    • Al, while I see your theory as valid, and I understand the simplistic view, I think that works better in nature than with human beings. There are just too many odd happenings and coincidences such as; why slash his throat? That is extremely out of character with self defense as well as a person that Jodi seems to be; mild mannered, soft spoken, etc. Adrenaline affects the physical – not so much the mental state where your brain would jump to “slash his throat.” The gun and the stab wounds say “stay away from me,” while a slash is more of something that seems would have to be learned or at least thought about. There is nothing at all in Jodi’s background that would indicate this type of behavior.

      I kind of also agree with the theory that there are no coincidences. And there are too many in this – especially the Ashley/Dustin aspect (a coincidence that the woman who told police her ex-husband did it just happens to be dead now). As for the roommates; I’ve been in an apartment building where a man on the third floor had died and his body was found a few days later. I was there a couple months later and I thought the smell was so awful I couldn’t believe people were still living there! So.. I cannot imagine a house, five days later, with the smell being even worse. I have a difficult time believing that it just a coincidence that the two roommates and their girl friends all had problems with their sense of smell or didn’t notice it. Also consider the dog – nobody noticed that, either? And the list goes on…

      So I was just wondering – if any investigator did decide to take this on and found something… could anything be done about it, anyway? Or is it all irrelevant at this point?

      • Cindyp,

        Let’s take your points one at a time. I’m assuming that the slash you’re talking about in the first paragraph refers to the slit throat. A slit throat is an almost universally held maxim for killing someone or dispatching some entity. (BTW what follows may be brutal to some, so skip this if you want).

        Ask any person who has been a hunter, the first time they shot a critter that didn’t die, what was the instinctive reaction – slit its throat. Even though the use of throat slitting may be a ritualistic form of execution it is also universally acknowledged in popular culture as a means of despatch. Hence you see it in the movies, on TV, read about it in books etc. You will also find that it is actually fairly common in the case of rage type killings. Remember, the OJ trial, Nicole Simpson had her throat slashed, So here’s my question. The rest of the knife wounds show definite signs of frenzied behavior on the part of the knife wielder. The throat slash is the only one that has the signs of a deliberate act. Why? Could it be that at some stage TA was so incapacitated, that someone could grab his head, pull it back and slash his throat? That is why that throat wound has always bothered me.

        Now to your issue with coincidences and roommate behavior. I believe that whenever we posit a theory we must question all aspects of it ourselves. So let’s assume that one or more of the roommates and their friends were involved in this killing. Now let us also assume that they were in fact cognizant of the foul stench. The question that arises is what the heck were they planning on doing about it. So let’s assume that on day 1 one of them was involved. Now that person knows that TA is dead and the body is in the bathroom. They also know that at some stage, someone will start looking for this guy. So how long do you wait till you dispose off the body. Remember, the house has an attached garage, so one could pull a car in and remove the body that way. Let’s say the body starts smelling. Do you still do nothing about it? The only people who hang on to the body are the depraved serial killer types where the body or parts thereof are trophies. And then how do you account for Jodi coming to in the desert with blood on her. So if the roommate drove her out there, they could have just as easily taken the body with them.

        As to Dustin Thompson, I couldn’t find anything about him in the Flores report.

        But the fact of the matter is this. It is actually completely inconsequential to the trial at hand whether the roommates, Dustin or for that matter Sasquatch had anything to do with these killings. Here’s how things stand:

        1. Jodi was there – by her own admission and the evidence.
        2. Jodi, by her own admission, killed TA.
        3. There is absolutely no evidence that anyone else was involved. No prints, no fibers, no DNA, no nothing.

        The issue at hand is whether or not this was a pre-meditated M1 or a felony murder, or something else. Jodi claims it was self-defense. The DA claims M1. The DA must prove, beyond a reasonable doubt that it was either M1 or felony murder on the part of Jodi. If it was premeditated, but she didn’t finish the job, and someone else did, then it is felony murder. If it was premeditated and she did do the killing then it is M1. So either way, if the DA can prove premeditation, then her goose is cooked. It really doesn’t matter who else was involved, or what someone else’s behavior was or is.

        Which, I believe is why neither the DA, nor the defense has bothered to raise issues with respect to roommates, odors or the strange behavior of the dog. It doesn’t matter. In fact from the point of view of the defense it may be argued that they are better off without any outside involvement. That would reduce the felony murder charge to JM’s ridiculous argument of “she was no longer welcome” after she delivered the first wound.

        So may be there is something to what you say and maybe there isn’t, but it is completely irrelevant to the case at hand. Unless there is some way to show that Jodi had absolutely nothing to do with these acts at all. And that horse has left the barn, based on her own testimony.

  29. http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/03/22/jodi-arias-murder-trial-travis-alexander-family-kim-goldman-ron-goldman-oj-simpson

    I don’t really know what to say about this article. I don’t have a good relationship with what remains of my family and they live in another country. I do feel very sorry for the Alexander family having lost a dear brother and in such a tragic way.

    But I will never quite understand how family members can not handle the truth — that their brother may not be what they thought. I dealt with the same denial from my ex’s family.

    • I can’t even read all that. I never thought OJ did it. He was covering for his eldest son who had a thing with her. The glove would have fit that young man. They just did a sloppy job on the investigation an they did not have the right Simpson on trial period.

      • Rhonda in Alabama
        The problem with the OJ case this study was done, those that watched the Pundits on TV thought he was guilty and those that just watched the Trial thought he was innocent. OJ Simpson suffered from numerous physical injuries do to Football that made it impossible for him to have committed these murders. Brown and Goldman were very very good shape very large that makes no sense. Dr.Henry Lee completed destroyed their physical evidence since the blood came out of a test tube.
        Dr. Lee’s Famous line if you find 1 Roach in the spaghetti you do not continue to eat. Also Dr.Lee was offered more money to testify for the prosecution. F.Lee Bailey who really constructed the whole defense case was the one who was able to prove how OJ was set up. I thought he was innocent so did my Husband I was not an OJ Fan but believe in justice. Whether you like a person or not Factually OJ Simpsons rights were completely violated. A recent Book has proven what Bailey has stated for a long time. Since now we have more sophisticated means of testing evidence. But any Lawyer who defends an unpopular client will suffer immensely.

        • Oliviero……………….Ya I was a big OJ fan way back when also………but I just never felt he did it the whole thing like this case felt off somewhere to me. Gut feeling……I only watched a little bit of the trail not the whole thing but I was glued to it when I could watch it. I still get in arguments today with friends that say he did it ! an my family too say he did it. As on this case almost everyone I know in life is on the other side an I can’t get them to see my side at all. Thank goodness for this site or I would be so depressed right now. I just pray that at least a couple jurors have some common sense not just BOOK SENSE an see an hear what I hear from Jodi an from that tape she recorded.

    • “I just have to push through, I just have to. The jury needs to see us; they need to know their life mattered,” we tell ourselves over and over again.

      I’m sorry but that is the MOST ignorant and small-minded statement I have ever seen. The jury needs to see the facts…the jury decision should not be based on things like the family showing up to court and how much they loved him.

      People like her should never be on a jury. There should not be verdicts based on empathy for the family, the verdicts should be based on facts and real evidence, not twisted, spliced, and diced evidence that Kermit attempts to use.

      As far as OJ, well, I guess Karma is working her deal with him now.

      • Your so right that is scary people may be on a JURY really that do look over there at the FAMILIES an make a decision on that OMG that is scary. As in some of the questions from the JURY were some of the same questions NG an other HLN had said ?? coincidence?? or do we have some jurors doing something they should not be doing ? makes a mind wonder when I heard a few questions exactly the same for the Dr.

        • There is no way under the sun, in today’s day and age when information is so ubiquitous that the Jury hasn’t been exposed to some form of outside stimulus. In days of old when the only form of news was the newspaper, I could believe this. Even when radio came by one could say, yes they just don’t turn on the news. But today, especially in the town where the event occurred every bit of media, print, radio, television, internet etc has to be flooded with nes from the trial. You probably see it on the news at the local bar/restaurant, or any other place that has a TV on the news, which includes things like doctors’ offices, restaurants, waiting rooms at offices, etc. Even the local supermarkets have the news blaring over their PA systems.

          Plus I bet there are 9 gazillion spam e-mail threads dealing with this topic. You couldn’t go to websites like CNN etc, without the days happenings splattered across the home page.

          Plus in any group at least some percentage of the jurors will have a perverse sense of curiosity. The fact that the information is widely and easily available makes it just so much easier for them to violate the rules.

          On the other hand I also believe that a certain number of the jurors will play by the rules. Just like the folks who stop at the stop sign at 2 AM on a deserted road in the countryside.

          At the end of the day the greatest thing about a jury system is that it is a collective process. When you put 12 grown ups in a room, they usually end up doing the right thing, if for no other reason than the peer pressure. (Wouldn’t say the same for 12 teenagers or college kids)

          • Al, I couldn’t agree more. Based on the jury questions of Dr. Samuels, I think that it’s safe to assume a few things:
            1. At least one of the jurors is not very intelligent.
            2. At least one of the jurors is in the pocket of the prosecution.
            3. At least one of the jurors is listening to Nancy Grace.
            4. Not all of the the jurors lack intelligence.
            5. Not all of the jurors have disregarded Jodi’s testimony.
            6. Not all of the jurors have disregarded Dr. Samuels’ testimony.

            My hope is that there is only one, and that the person is one and the same. The person who couldn’t even plagiarize Nancy Grace without paraphrasing her, is clearly not good at covering his/her tracks, and therefore probably not very intelligent. Should Jodi and the process be unfortunate enough that that/those person/s wind(s) up in the final 12, hopefully the other jurors will not be heavily influenced by that person. Should the other jurors be unable to convince that juror to follow the jury instructions and deliberate in good faith, we are looking at a hung jury (win for the defense), a mistrial based on juror misconduct (win for the defense) or a mondo appellate issue (yet another possible win for the defense). Those Travestites can cluck about the juror questions all they want, and we can wring our hands all night long, but I can’t help but see this as all upside for Jodi. Juror miscoduct – possible. Pulling the wool over the eyes of (blind) Lady Justice – not likely in the long haul.

            • I read about a case in AZ where a conviction was appealed because some jurors said they were bullied by the foreman and that he/she wouldn’t allow them to view pieces of evidence. I hope some are going be holdouts using all the evidence to come to their decision and able to stand up to pressure. I think pressure in the deliberations is common, especially when the jurors want to go home.

              About #2, what a makes you think that?

              • I hate reading tea leaves in these jury things, but I’m also not used to trials where the jury can ask questions of each witness. I just think that this stupid person has already made up his mind that Jodi is guilty…not that there has been a payoff or anything like that, I just think that for whatever reason, he is predisposed to her guilt.

        • I noticed that with two juror questions to Samuels. They were almost direct Nancy Grace quotes–I have since stopped watching her spew her vitriol, but I recognized those questions.

      • jurors should only listen to facts, and the trial . but the jury is human and every human has perceptions, feelings etc — right or wrong. They actually hire people to help the defendant dress, act, etc in a way that helps their case. The families of both sides are instructed (by lawyers – not legal) to come to court everyday , so the jury can see your support for defendant or victim etc. They want to show they have families that love them and support them… these are the people who know (or are supposed to know) them better than anyone.

      • Exactly BeeCee and sorry guys I jusy went of, (underneath), I needed to get it out, that article made me upset!!! One, she writes it like, for the jury…. oh feel sorry for us plz but they want the accused to pay for it by getting revenge. Nothing about the facts or the law! !! Second, why is this out for everyone to read, she could’ve privately mailed it to them, it probably would’ve meant more to them. Third, the JURY IS SEEING THIS!!!!

        • I agree, mail to family more personal. And as for the jury.. I will never understand non-sequestor. I wonder if they didn’t realize the amount of public attention it would draw ?

          • They will also see Nasty Graceless’ BREAKING NEWS tonight: Jodi was originally on the Cancun trip and was replaced by MiMi.

            SEQUESTER THAT DAMN JURY!

            • Was Mimi looking for him?
              Wondering why he hadn’t showed up?
              She didn’t try calling him or his roomates. She knew them..
              Did she go on to Cancun anyway?
              I can’t imagine missing someone for 5 days and him supposed to be with her.
              Gus said tey disgusted his text that Travis was dead,
              THey were concerned and had just a jolly great time knowing their friend was dead.

        • Jeez,that article made more than upset!!! Foe examle she says:” hoping that my grief, my loyalty, my loss would somehow impact the jury enough to find him guilty ” (WTF?) ” the morbid fantasies of wanting to watch the killer, Jodi Arias, die a slow painful death. I get it. I get it all.” ‘The lies, the deceit, the private and perhaps embarrassing secrets that could taint his memory; the realization that his life as they knew it would be overshadowed by his killer’s recount of the last day of his young life. ”

          OK.People out there need to realize that the Law is the Law,it is not a cheap soap opera!The Law demands facts,evidence,testimonies,autopsy photos gruesome or not,the Law needs to be obeyed to the letter and needs to have faithful servants who are NOT influenced by emotions,empathy,sympathy,inderstanding of the pain etc etxc…Harsh?Yes.But if we were to convict anyone on the basis of taking the victims’ families reactions sitting in the gallery,then no Justice would ever be served!

          Let me give you an example of a greek murder case.Many years ago,a young boy was viciously raped and then murdered.His body was dumped and later found.The mother,siblings and FATHER were devastated.The father in particular was inconsolable .The entire greek nation watched that tragedy unfold while the father went from channel to channel,weeping his eyes out and I remember reporters saying ”This father needs justice for the hineous murder of his son.The police MUST find the sick killer” GUESS WHAT???A few months later the FATHER HIMSELF confessed to the rape and murder of his own young son.He was brought to justice and commited suicide by hanging himself in the cell.

          When a trial is still taking place,it is better for some people to keep their mouths shut.IMHO.

      • You can say the same for Jodi Arias someone said Karma is a Bitch, But The law must function as an instrument seeking Justice not for individuals who like or don’t like someone to dismiss the criminal actions of Law Enforcement. Everyone whether you nor I like them are entitled to a fair Trial. I agree with probably the greatest Lawyer that ever lived
        “Thomas More: …And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned around on you–where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country’s planted thick with laws from coast to coast–man’s laws, not God’s–and if you cut them down…d’you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I’d give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety’s sake.”

          • LC
            Right many people say Oh I didn’t like OJ so he did it , but his rights were extremely violated.
            and Goldman was a Black Belt he could have massacred OJ Easy. People who watched the Trial on TV thought OJ was innocent and people who listened to media pundits thought he was guilty. Do not forget the Media Trashed him for a Year prior to the Trial. Evidence was planted I could go on and on. I say For My Own Safety sake,

            • A lot of people who watched the trial thought that O.J. was guilty but that the prosecution made some big blunders. I do, in my heart, feel that he is guilty because of his blood being on the scene and the fact that no one else had the motive to attack Nicole in such a personal manner. His smirking when the verdict came down just solidified that for me.

              But I’m not going to debate a nearly 20 year old case :).

              • The Blood was from a test tube he submitted his blood. so Dr.Henry Lee disproved the Blood Brilliantly, I am sure Prosecution was sorry he turned down their offer.The Jury was sequestered, but they did a study and those that watched the trial though OJ was innocent and those who watched the media thought he was guilty. I do not know OJ so I have no opinion on him. The latest is that Jodi Arias is more unpopular then even OJ due to the Massive media blitz. I believe in the 6th amendment and that was my opinion with OJ as is with Arias.

                • I watched every day of the OJ trial, not the pundits, and I think he was guilty. I started watching the Arias trial after watching pundits and assumed she was a guilty horrible person. I watched Jodi’s testimony and gave up pundits and I believe her story. It was not premeditated and I believe Travis attacked her. I read a lot of the posts tonight on a”kill Jodi” site. People there are viscious and close-minded. People here appear to be thinking.

                • That is why we have a Jury system The person who did the Study Jury Versus Media Did not state all but most people who watched the Trial Versus those who’s opinions are of the Media. I believe in the 6th Amendment. The jury spoke and that is that. Whether a commentator on Entertainment Tonight or anyone else. who has not lived like Juries do with the evidence etc. is really not important Personally Jodi Arias Jurors should have been sequestered do to the Media BLITZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • St. Thomas More Not Me and I just learned he was the First in England to be responsible for what we know as Freedom of Speech. A great Movie on this Mans Life where they use his writings is a Man For All Seasons. He was an exceptional Lawyer. But his life was an interesting one for sure. Henry VIII had him beheaded, Thomas More wrote many books, I wonder how he would see this case.

    • See THIS is the kind of things that SHOULD be kept OUT of the media until after the jury comes back eith a verdict! !!!! This is what upsets me! Not wha the article is about, but the fact the its out there now so that the jury can read!!! This can be very influentia, a juror can come across this article, feel bad for the family and make a decision based on just that!!!!

      Kim Goldman goes on to say, “They have to remain stoic, so that the victim is not forgotten.”
      To me, they HAVE NOT remained stoic, they have very much shown they’re feelings of hate and anger with
      the eyerolls, head nodding and smirks.

      Goldman also writes, “I don’t know the relationship between Travis and his family, nor is it any of my business.” No, YOU DONT, you dont know that TA hadn’t spoken to some of them for years and they obviously didn’t, if they didn’t know that there little brother WAS having sex!!!! That tells me they weren’t that close afterall.

      And then she admits to what some of us have been claiming that what they want is REVENGE by saying, “the morbid fantasies of wanting to watch the killer, Jodi Arias, die a slow painful death. I get it. I get it all.  I, too, have shared those thoughts and a very close encounter, finding myself just a mere few feet away from the beast I believe slaughtered my only brother: Him versus me. A secluded parking lot. I had the chance.”

      I mean, I get it, I get it too!!! I know it hurts. I have a sister a year older and a brother a year younger, GOD FORBID anything like that happening to either one of them, that I love so much (very very close). I would refrain, I would pray for strength and I would lv it in Gods hands to do rest and to heal my heart. There are other ways to deal with tragedy NOT, oh you killed my brother, I want to kill you too!!! Really???? And now this stupid article is there for the jury to see??? Why couldn’t she mailed them a private ltr?!!! Because shes another asshole!!!!

      • “There are other ways to deal with tragedy NOT, oh you killed my brother, I want to kill you too!!! Really???? And now this stupid article is there for the jury to see??? Why couldn’t she mailed them a private ltr?!!! Because shes another asshole!!!!:

        You know what LC??? I TOTALLY agree with you.

        And yes, in case anyone decides to ask again, I would feel the same if it were my family member, because I know that no one REALLY knows what their loved ones are capable of…as some of us here know by abusers who are so welled loved in communities and by their families.

        • LC and BeeCee: Totally agree. Private letter could have indicated sincerity. This overt letter is bogus showboating. Based on the lack of real evidence, If Jody is found guilty as charged it can only mean the unsequestered jury as been poisoned by biased media, which would be a travesty of justice.

      • LC
        I heard the Goldman’s are Huge Media Whores, Someone told me how they constantly have sought attention and made huge sums of Money. I remember vaguely Goldman being in The Media a lot I did fell sorry for Him experiencing such a horrible loss but it became constant. So a Friend of mine stated Oh the Goldman’s are back.But it does harm our Judicial System

    • I totally get it . There are a ton of people who believe JA, and a ton of people who believe TA. I don’t see how their families would join their respective sides. In my mind I have yet to see any proof that JA premeditated, or proof that TA was a pedi. A local bar on my town has naughty little school girl night once a year …. and I have some friends who ‘really enjoyed’ fifty shades. Not my bag , but I dont think that they are violent pedi’s … and unless they have someone testify JA talked to them about this before hand … I dont think she premeditated.

      And,, my mom still likes to think of me as a virgin…… never mind the fact I have been married for 10+ yrs and we have 2 kids. No she’s not stupid, she just cant bring herself to think of her little girl ‘like that’ .

    • For me, the worst part of this is what is completely left out: that is not ONE but TWO families that have been devastated by all of this. What about the Arias family? What about her poor father who has cancer and yet, came into court one day ANYWAY?

      I am not saying Jodi is one, or that I believe ANY of the state’s case against her, but even if someone is a monster, a serial killer like Jeffrey Dahmer, they still have family! I remember seeing his father and stepmother on TV and they said they had to use different names when they went out to eat and if they did use their last name, they denied they were “that” Dahmer family. They also said that Jeffrey Dahmer’s brother had changed his name and gone into hiding. The family didn’t know a THING. They didn’t know about the dead animals. He wrote them cards and letters during his adolescence saying how much he loved them. They knew he had problems. They knew he was a drunk. But they’d get him some help, and he’d seem better for a while.

      And then, came that dreadful day …. and their lives were turned upside down, people throwing things at their house, photographers looking in their windows. They talked to the victims’ families and apologized, let them yell and scream and say they wished they were dead. Only one, the sister of a victim, truly accepted them. And when Jeffrey Dahmer was killed, she even attended the service.

      Everyone thinks about what the victim’s family goes through. But what the the family of the accused?

      • Great post…I’ve watched several interviews with Jeffrey Dahmer’s father/stepmother and they seem like very nice people who are hurting greatly.

      • Thank you so much for this AlsoAbused. I have said something similar before, there is an outpouring of sympathy for Travis’ family but almost zero for Jodi’s. I’ve lived in a small town on the west coast, so I know how ugly the harassment can get when the people there think you are a safe target for their aggression. I hope every day that the Arias family are safe, functioning, and haven’t been harassed today. I can’t imagine what it’s like for Jodi’s mother and Aunt (Sandra?) and their family friend, to be outnumbered in the courtroom and treated with such disrespect like from that lady who talked loudly about how Jodi should die.

        I mean sheesh… where’s the compassion for HER family?

      • Beautiful words,Also Abused.I vivdly remember when ”researching” about Dahmer,meaning reading all info I could get and watching every documentary there is out there,what had struck me the most was that his father was by his side,even during an interview.The families of the perpetrators never see their family member as a monster.And God knows,Dahmer really was a monster.at least he was described as such by the media.To put it more mildly,or more psychiatrically correct,he was a very very sick person.Yet his family was there.I wcan only feel sympathy for them.
        Now Jodi is NOT Dahmer.Not even close.Their crimes are not even comparable.Apples and oranges.Yet,noone gives credit or even mentioned sth positive about her family who has tried to be as facially expressionless as possible(poor people how hard this must be),carrying out this ordeal with nothing but dignity.

        • I don’t understand how people can attack the mother saying that the ‘right’ thing to do would be to disown jodi and that’s what THEY would do. I wouldn’t ever be able to disown my child!

        • It is really awful, isn’t it Maria? Dahmer was a serial killer who committed (and admitted to) the most egregious crimes we could even conceptualize. In fact, many of us couldn’t conceptualize them at all. We were disgusted beyond belief that he ate parts of his victims. But it feels like the public has condemned Jodi and her family as if she committed crimes much worse than him.

          I know you’re posting from Europe (Greece) where I grew up. Is there as much coverage of this case there as in the US?

          • No.Nobody knows about this case.Noone has ever heard the name Jodi Arias here.Nor the name Casey Anthony.the media here is so engrossed in the financial crisis we’re dealing with right now that it wouldnt devote ant time on what we would characterize herte as ”a passion crime”. Rarely do they report on crimes from abroad,unless it’s sth huge like the shooting in Finland or American schools. Which is sth really positive because I can research on my own,draw my own conclusions without being brainwashed by any form of media coverage.
            Plus,sometimes when I daydream of Jodi being aquitted and walking a free woman,I say to myself ”Hey if worse comes to worse and she cant even live in that country of hers I can suggest she come and live in Greece for a while where nobody knows her name,until the dust settles there.” It’s a solution that could come in handy,right? 🙂

  30. NOW WOULD BE A REALLY GOOD TIME FOR THE FAMILY AND TRUE FRIENDS OF ASHLEY REED (THOMPSON) TO COME OUT AND REALIZE WE ARE AN ALLY FOR TRUTH AND JUSTICE. HER DEATH WAS RULED A SUICIDE BY MEDICAL EXAMINER, DR. ROBERT LYON, WHO HAS RECENTLY BEEN EXPOSED ON ABC15 ARIZONA FOR A QUESTIONABLE RULING IN ANOTHER CASE THAT HE RULED SUICIDE. THE FAMILY BELIEVES IT WAS MURDER.

    ASHLEY TIPPED POLICE OFF THAT HER HUSBAND, DUSTIN THOMPSON’S BEHAVIOR AROUND THE TIME OF TRAVIS’ DEATH WAS SUSPICIOUS. APPARENTLY, INVESTIGATOR’S NEVER FOLLOWED UP AND TALKED TO DUSTIN. WHY? ASHLEY DIED ON MARCH 3, 2010, A FEW MONTHS AFTER SHE HAD GOTTEN A RESTRAINING ORDER AGAINST DUSTIN.

    THE AUTOPSY REPORT SAYS SHE DIED OF A SINGLE GUNSHOT WOUND TO THE HEAD.

    • I absolutely agree with you 100% on this. I just can not believe Dustin was not questioned. There are so many red flags to this case. I think Jodi is covering up the truth. I think she was either threatened or she knew he had been shot and her handprint was found at the scene so she had to say she did it in self defense. Otherwise it would appear to be a cold blooded murder.

      There is just NO WAY Jodi did this alone. With all of the adrenaline in the world she would not have been able to put his body in the shower. Especially the way it was positioned. It appears to me that two people were dragging / carrying him (one by the arms and one by the ankles) and set him in the shower in that position. I just don’t see how one person could have gotten him in that position.

      • Also to add…. I doubt Ashley’s family will speak and are probably staying as far away as they can from all of this in fear of their own lives.

  31. FOR ANYONE WHO THINKS WHAT THE DEFENSE DOCTOR SAID ABOUT MEMORY NOT WORKING DURING A TRAUMATIC EVENT – THINK AGAIN!

    Today, I was driving my daughter to a friend’s house. On the way, a guy decided to make a left-hand turn without giving the drivers behind him any notice.

    I was about to slam into the person in front of me, but was able to go to the right of them and off onto the shoulder.

    We did not get hit (that I know of – sounds odd, I know), but the people behind me (two cars) were not so lucky.

    I can say this with CERTAINTY. The event, while small compared to what Jodi endured, has every hallmark of the hippocampus (sp?) not recording the memory of what happened in my brain.

    1. I cannot remember what happened from when I went to the side of the road and then stopped (about 5 seconds of memory – gone).

    2. I was on the phone with a friend and don’t remember how I got off the phone with her. I called her back to ask her what I said before we hung up.

    3. I remember calling 911 for the people, but I don’t remember everything that was said.

    4. I can’t remember if my car was “nudged” by the other driver behind me. There’s no evidence of it, but I am really sore in my back and neck.

    5. I drove to my daughter’s friend’s house and I was in a FOG! I had a VERY hard time concentrating. I was VERY freaked out!

    I can only imagine what Jodi went through if I am feeling this way about an accident that didn’t (that I know of) involve me, my daughter, and my car.

    YIKES!!

    • Something similar happened to me while driving too, which is why I also agree with the Dr. I hit something in the middle of the road a couple months ago. I know it was large because of the impact, but after it happened I couldn’t remember what I hit. I also couldn’t remember the location where I hit it.

      • I have to admit something, these types of memory fogs have happened to me a few times as part of PTSD because I seem to react to slight trauma — anything that puts me back in the mind frame of when I was in my abusive marriage — and some days, I get a lot of that at work. I have left work, got on the wrong train (or not got off for my transfer) and ended up somewhere else. This happened just the other night, actually. I remember being at work, being upset as I left. The next thing I remember is getting off at the stop I transfer trains at. So, I completely lost leaving work, going down in the elevator, walking to the train station, going down into the train station, waiting for a train, and getting on a train. That’s about 15 minutes or so and it’s gone. I have this vague memory of thinking when I went to make my transfer to another train (which required another escalator) that something wasn’t quite right.

        Next thing I knew, I was about 6-7 stops on that train, and I kind of “woke up” and said to myself, wow this train is packed. I tried to text my fiance to tell him I was on my way, and actually told him the train I was on. But I wasn’t on that train AT ALL! I had somehow got on a completely different train and had NO clue. I realized I was still underground and my text hadn’t gone through. Then, the conductor announced the name of the next stop and I realized what I’d done. I felt so panicky. I also felt deeply ashamed. Because I’d lost another 20 minutes of time completely.

        The conductor must have announced all the stops I missed but I didn’t hear him. And when I did come out of it, I was sure that I was somewhere else on a different train. The worst part is that I do this commute every weekday of my life, and have been doing it for 14 months now.

        I spoke with a friend, also an abuse survivor, that night and she said the same thing has happened to her while she’s DRIVING! She told me it’s a very common symptom.

    • Great post, Nicole.

      I too, have had direct experience with amnesia.

      In the ’90s my father, who was in his fifties at the time, had an accident in which he fell from a pretty good height and broke his arm badly. Not a terrible accident, but bad enough that the trauma caused him to completely lose his memory. He couldn’t even remember his own name. Over the course of that day, his memories slowly returned, starting with the oldest ones and moving forward up to the present. For example, he suddenly, after a time, remembered who my mother was, and then later who I was, and the later who my younger brother was. But it took several hours, and he still has absolutely no memory of the accident or the events that directly preceded it.

      So, I can say from first hand experience, that amnesia caused by trauma is very real, and anyone who disputes this is, quite simply ignorant. (I’m talking to you, Martinez!)

    • Nicole…I am happy that you, your daughter, and the car didn’t get hurt…

      My mom died 3 years ago…and over the next several years…I did things like….drive to the mall 25 minutes away from my home…and I wouldn’t remember driving there…go other places and not remember how I got there…part of my mind was working and another part was not functioning…
      So I can how Jodi drove and couldn’t remember parts of the driving and getting lost…

      And on my job…I worked perfectly…I felt like two people…it was like I was one person watching the other person work…I can see that in Jodi too…it is like one part of her is functioning and other part is not…

      Then 6 months ago…with the support of my family I went to Hospice grief counseling and it is amazing that all of my symptoms above plus a whole lot more symptoms that I didn’t mention were all consistent with the grief that I experienced at the loss of my mom…

      So yes…I can just imagine what Jodi went through…and she would have experienced grief also for Travis’ because she did love him…

      Shame on JM and maybe one day when karma comes around he will have to experience the same of everything that Jodi had to experience…

      • I’m so sorry Truthseeker. Thank you for sharing that with us. You have really helped me today by doing so. I’m struggling so much with my own “blackouts.” As Jodi said, the only other time I remember having a “blackout” was in college when I drank too much and was the life and soul of a party that I barely remember being at. But these things happen when I’m stone cold sober. I’m so grateful I have been able to watch Dr. Samuels’ testimony and share with all the amazing people here. At least, I don’t feel like a weirdo anymore.

        Again, I’m truly sorry about your Mom. Such a dreadful loss. I know it sounds corny, but I can’t help but think she is looking down and very proud of you today.

        • Thanks Also Abused for your kind comment…

          There are a lot of things about the amazing human mind that experts like Dr. Samuels’ will never completely figure out…I believe everything that he has said and can apply what he has said to my own experiences…I like him and his softness in explaining everything…

          My mom was a wonderful mother…and with the thought of her watching over me has been one key element in my coping…

          Thanks again and God Bless you…

          • Thank you so much Truthseeker. My Dad died when I was 15. He was an amazing father, my best friend too. And he was the only “normal” member of my family. I’m not religious, but I like to think he watches over me too. So, I know exactly what you mean. Bless you for all your kindness, and your willingness to share.

            I like Dr. Samuels too. I’d love for him to be my therapist. I can’t help but wonder if Jodi felt that way.

            • Let’s hope that when this is all over (and soon) that Jodi will be able to avail herself of a healthy, supportive therapeutic situation as it seems that you have. It also sounds like you have not lost your instincts through everything, which is a tremendous testament to your resiliency. Congratulations on getting out, and you have my prayers and best wishes for your continued recovery.

              • Thank you so much JouJou, you are so kind.

                And yes, I really hope so too for Jodi. Even an incarcerated person deserves good therapy, most especially one who has not even been convicted, and it’s clear that she’s not getting that.

    • Gosh, I’m glad you and your family are ok! Yes, the Drs testimony helped me understand a lot of my own life experiences as well. I hope you have a good weekend despite what happened. <3

  32. Take a look at all the tapes of Jodi.. She can never recall any stabbing events, even in her made up stories, the knife and details around the knife are totally missing

    I am impressed with the Good Dr Samuels and want to slap JM for being an idiot to him but that wouldn’t be in the right spirit..

    Jodi really needs to speak out.. I wsh she’s have told JM..

    “I killed him because he was trying to kill me like you are!!!”

    I honestly believe the amnesia, and that PTSD is just an obvious reaction to that.

    I was a lot like Jodi.. sort of a rose colored glasses girl. I ended up with PTSD too.. sigh.. hugs Jodi

    • To all of the “blackout victims” who are coming out of the closet today:

      This just goes to show how much victims keep locked up inside themselves. One person mentioned being ASHAMED of getting on the wrong train and missing several stops. That horrible and unjust word cut right to my heart for that person, and for me – recognizing it as an extension of myself.

      This tells me that a lot of us here are hanging on to every word on this site, and it is because a lot of learning is seeping through in the many intelligent posts.

      They shine an “external” light on what we have experienced. By externalizing our experience, vicariously viewing it through another person having the experience, I know in my case, it helps me accept that what I was put through was real. That I did not cause it, and that I did a very good and courageous thing to leave.

      My ex-husband used words to make himself right and marginalize my every thought or interest. The tone was sarcastic, exasperated, and demeaning. I get a huge headache being exposed to JM’s rantings. My brain scrambles.

      However, I benefit from experiencing what JM is is doing as external to myself, even though it is painful. I can objectively see it for the horrific, damaging, verbal, mental, and emotional abuse that it is.

      It does make me outrageously angry that what he does is actually allowed to take place in the very courts that we were taught in school are there to protect us.

      Back to the “blackout” syndrome. I can remember being kept awake most of the night, crying and sobbing constantly, and being embarrassed having to go go work in the morning with my eyes swollen nearly shut from crying.

      BUT I can remember NOTHING of the content of these so-called “arguments.” I lived with this very same treatment from my single-parent mom, all of my so-called “growing-up” years. I say so-called, because her every tactic was targeted to keep me from growing up. I still do not know what I did to make her so angry, and I am still not “grown up.”

      All this victim stuff this wonderful site has brought out is off-topic in a way. But it does point to a need for us victims to have a support site to turn to 🙂 Any ideas?

      • Thank you so so much Chelion. I believe it was me who talked about my shame at “blacking out” on the train. You are so right about how this trial has brought forth so many of those feelings. Also, this amazing site, with all you wonderful people, has allowed me to talk about such things, without feeling like someone would go after me with a pitchfork. Abuse is, unfortunately, something so poorly understood unless you went through it. Then, it makes sense.

        I think often about what I will do once this trial is over. There will still be emotions I need to process. But I will really miss all the open-minded and accepting people I have come to know here. I’m not sure that SJ realizes just how much this site has enabled so many of us to speak freely and to heal through it. He created this site to expose the injustices of what Jodi was going through. But it has become so so so much more. Thank you SJ!

        Like you, listening to Kermit’s cross, I feel like I can’t function. (I call him Kermit, because it seems like a nice term for someone who is soooooo offensive to me, to my reality, and what I experienced. I don’t quite know how to refer to such a person. I wish I didn’t have to, ever.) In fact, I was catching up on the trial yesterday (I work during the week) and while listening to Ms. Wilmott regarding juror questions, I accidentally left it on for his part — which I’d already begrudgingly heard. I found myself screaming internally, saying no, not again. I was quickly able to turn it off. His intention is to create such a reaction and he plays his role well.

        He reminds me so much of my ex-husband’s attorney, another short aggressive man of about the same age. I’m a very short person, myself. I don’t quite make it to 5′ on measurement. I’m not one to judge another’s height or lack thereof. But I honestly think he (and my ex-husband’s attorney) suffer from a complex about their height. When I read the transcripts of court hearings or the briefs my ex’s attorney submitted on appeal, I was appalled. Even today, I cannot get over some of his words. Appeals are supposed to be civil. There is not room for invective and personal attacks. But, he wrote, for one example,: “The Former Wife … attempts to paint herself as an alleged victim of domestic violence. This is either simply a self-serving portrait of the Wife, or the ravings of a delusional individual, as there is absolutely nothing in the record indicating that she is a victim of domestic abuse.”

        It is now, and always has been, amazing to me that he would write that. Nothing in the record, he claims — except an injunction for protection and a criminal arrest for a felony charge of aggravated battery with a deadly weapon. I guess both of those amount to his interpretation of “nothing”. None of us here would have a difficult time imaging Kermit writing similar words.

  33. Rhonda in Alabama

    “Smith took 30 wives, one a 14-year-old. He planned unsuccessfully to marry a 12-year-old. Mohammed had planned to marry a baby, but died as a result of an attempted poisoning before he could do so. The two men were false prophets, they created their own alleged revelations and they were pedophiles. History does repeat itself.”

    Mohammed did not plan to marry a baby, and he did die because he was poisoned. He died of old age. At the time that the marriage took place, even Christians had an age of consent for 12 years old. He was not a pedophile. It was a consentual marriage. Islamically, you are not allowed to force anyone to get married.

    As far as religion goes, I am going to go ahead and say I am Muslim and so I do not believe Mohammed is a false prophet. I believe in Jesus, he is a very well respected prophet in Islam. September 11 was an act of terrorism, and the people who committed those acts were by no means true Muslims. Muslims are not allowed to harm innocent people. They are not even allowed to destroy nature!!

    This is not the forum for which religion is the correct religion. I don’t think mischaracterizing Mormonism or Islam is the answer. The religion is not the problem, it’s the people. There are good and bad people in all belief systems.

    I know you may not know about Islam. You definitely have been give wrong information. If you do have actual questions, I would be happy to answer any you may have. I would give you my email address if that makes it easier as this is a form for support for Jodi, not for discussing whose religious beliefs are right or wrong.

    • And Olivero, his wife was not mentally ill. She was actually a very active female, she was a female scholar during that time. Very well respected by all.

      • Narrated ‘Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah’s Apostle used to enter they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for ‘Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)
        Narrated Aisha: “The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Alright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s Blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar), Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234)”
        My Fathers Friend is a History Professor From Oxford University among scholars of Religion this is a well known fact. among Religious Scholars Many Muslims I know have also stated that Pedophilia and incest are acceptable NOT ALL BUT SOME
        In a cultic atmosphere no one objects to the despicable deeds of the leader. The cultist becomes befogged and those few who see something is wrong do not dare to question. I have explained this phenomenon with many examples of modern day cults in my book Understanding Muhammad.

          • I do not like Hitler Stalin Mohammed or anyone who is abusive having sex with a 6 year old is just plain sick to most civilized people and the girls hair falling out etc. Is a sure sign of abuse. You will know them by their fruits. There just remains to much documented evidence that contradicts your opinion. I have Muslim Friends so I know what I hear and That is my opinion based on Facts. not Fantasy

            • Modern scholars, such as Sprenger, Noldeke, Weil, Muir, Koelle, Grimme, Margoliouth, give us a more correct and unbiased estimate of Mohammed’s life and character, and substantially agree as to his motives, prophetic call, personal qualifications, and sincerity. The various estimates of several recent critics have been ably collected and summarized by Zwemer, in his “Islam, a Challenge to Faith” (New York, 1907). According to Sir William Muir, Marcus Dods, and some others, Mohammed was at first sincere, but later, carried away by success, he practiced deception wherever it would gain his end. Koelle “finds the key to the first period of Mohammed’s life in Khadija, his first wife”, after whose death he became a prey to his evil passions. Sprenger attributes the alleged revelations to epileptic fits, or to “a paroxysm of cataleptic insanity”.Concerning his moral character and sincerity, contradictory opinions have been expressed by scholars in the last three centuries.
              Luther looked upon him as “a devil and first-born child of Satan”. Spanheim and D’Herbelot characterize him as a “wicked impostor”, and a “dastardly liar”, while Prideaux stamps him as a willful deceiver.
              Zwemer himself goes on to criticize the life of Mohammed by the standards, first, of the Old and New Testaments, both of which Mohammed acknowledged as Divine revelation; second, by the pagan morality of his Arabian compatriots; lastly, by the new law of which he pretended to be the “divinely appointed medium and custodian”. According to this author, the prophet was false even to the ethical traditions of the idolatrous brigands among whom he lived, and grossly violated the easy SEXUAL MORALITY of his own system. After this, it is hardly necessary to say that, in Zwemer’s opinion, Mohammed fell very far short of the most elementary requirements of Scriptural morality. Quoting Johnstone, Zwemer concludes by remarking that the judgment of these modern scholars, however harsh, rests on evidence which “comes all from the lips and the pens of his own devoted adherents. . .And the followers of the prophet can scarcely complain if, even on such evidence, the verdict of history goes against him”.

    • Nk, I don’t want to be judged by the lunatics who profess to practice Christianity (Westboro Baptist Church, anyone?), so I try not to judge an entire faith by its’ newsmaking nutcases who claim to act at the behest of God. My exhusband recently married the loveliest woman you can imagine who happens to be Muslim. Many people in my community have approached me in hushed tones asking about whether I am comfortable with her being around our children because of her religion. I have to laugh (or else I’ll cry). You would think that a nation brought into existence by (among others) a bunch of persecuted religious loonies would have figured out how to live harmoniously with people of other faiths. I guess nothing’s perfect, but it still makes me sad.

      • Thank you joujoubaby! 🙂 Unfortunately, the media really does have incredible ways to spread the worst type of propaganda known to man. It really is sad.

  34. Great! Now HLN is reporting that Jodi was supposedly going to be the one that Travis took to Cancun and at the last minute switched it to Mimi Hall.

    Don’t you just LOVE how this info comes out during the weekend, when they know that jurors will be watching???

    Here is the tape:

    http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/03/22/was-jodi-booked-cancun-trip-travis

    I would LOVE to see the first paper that said she was going and the second paper where he changed it to Mimi Hall.

    Further, if they were flying, wouldn’t Jodi have had a ticket (depending on how far in advance Travis changed it).

    Personally, I think it is BULLSHIT. Travis’ friends hated Jodi. There is no way that he would have taken her.

    What do you all think?

    • I think it is nonsense. I mean, just listen to the recording of Jodi and Travis. They were discussing Cancun, there was no mention of Jodi ever planning to go or Travis ever planning to take her. Travis did say that Jodi would be priority on this trip up the US coast to Oregon though.

      HLN is playing dirty. They are afraid the tide is changing. That is why they are doing whatever they can to convince the general public she is guilty.

      • I know! !! They discuss it on the tape, WE ALL HEARD IT!!! my goodness, what is wrong with them??? I thk they just dont have anything to cover.

      • I know you cannot argue about what we heard coming from his actual mouth. I am so glad that Jodi had that tape. I hate how they say she is dragging him through the mud and killing him again will the tape emails and text. No I think we can all agree he did that to himself with his own behavior and I am just thankful Jodi has this behavior on record. The three hole wonder and 12 year old comments just disgust me the most and I am glad that JW reminded everyone yesterday of the many things he called her.

        • I don’t know, but I really don’t like Mimi. She looks like she’s a jealous girl and that she envies Jodi because she’s so ugly. I like the other girl, the blond one. I think her last name is Andrews, she look more sincere.

          • I think HLN is taking advantage now because after Jodi’s trial is over everyone is gonna have to go get unemployment because they fill out their day only by talking about Jodi. They should be thankful that at least thanks to Jodi’s trial they have a job.

          • Hmmm I didn’t see Mimi on the stand, but I did listen to her testimony. I was only able to find audio. She looked pretty in the still shot that accompanied it. She sounded like a sweet girl to me, and it seemed she was smart enough not to fall for Travis’s BS. I was actually impressed with her testimony because she sounded like a very secure woman. She wasn’t worried about being single at 32 (which seems to be considered “over the hill” in that community). And she was secure enough to tell Travis that he wasn’t right for her and they could just be friends. I haven’t seen her appear on any shows either. Did I miss something?

            I wonder if Bella knows her since Mimi testified to also being in that ward.

            • Yes, I know Mimi. She is a nice lady(girl back when I knew her) she is bright and polite. She has a great sense of humor and laughs easily. This has effected her but she lives her life and has moved past it.

              • Oh thank you so much Bella for confirming. I really really really appreciate all your honesty. From what you said, it seems I read her correctly just by listening to the audio of her testimony. I am sure this must have affected her. I’m so glad to hear she moved past it. I honestly liked her, just from hearing her testimony. She sounded really secure in herself, and actually, very impartial about all of this. I wish her only the very best in life. May she do well always.

            • Well, I was just going for her testimony she made about Jodi When they ask her if she believe Jodi was a stalker and she say yes. I didn’t get to see all of her testimony, but my impression of her was if she was jealous. I didn’t get the same with Lisa Andrews though, but that was just my opinion.

              • I found her quite pretty and together.Like a self sufficient lady.cant say if I like her or not because I cant seem to get past the thing that she was one of the first people to refer to Jodi as a stalker when talking to Florez,”helping” him to form his opinion about Jodi being a crazy jealous ex.I dont blame her,though.That’s the crap she had repeatedly listened coming out from TA ‘s mouth,of course she wopuld believe him instead of a woman she didnt even know.

                • Listening to the 911 call though, it sounded like it was his roommates that told Mimi to say that to Flores. Like, she really didn’t know about it herself.

          • LOL!!
            I like this I thought they were all very plastic and all probably had sex with Travis.
            That I am such a GOOD GIRL makes you really sick. But you may have hit the nail on the head, about ugly and jealous, If i recall The other girl with a straight face states Travis never had sex it was a rumor, I wondered what planet she was on? or was she recently lobotomized?
            These Gals were LYING LIKE RUGS!!!
            These Freaks Crack me up.

            • Wow, really? I honestly did NOT have that impression of Mimi. She’s one person who I would not at all be surprised that she is a 32 year old virgin. She really seemed dedicated to her church, but also, she had a personality, an identity all of her own. I’ve listened to her testimony a couple of times, and she seemed very honest, but also, very impartial. I don’t think she testified to condemn Jodi. She just wanted to tell the truth of her experience, her knowledge. To me, she seemed very very genuine. I honestly liked her.

              • I didn’t think she said or did anything on the stand that condemned Jodi. She provided a lot of background information about the LDS and the singles wards which proved interesting to me.

              • Agree, and I don’t think that either Mimi or Lisa were lying about being virgins while dating Travis. They were the “good girls” that he kept up appearances with.

            • No, Lisa Andrews and Mimi Hall did not have sex with Travis. As a matter of personal account I know of no other girl who was in his life at that point in time that did. Lisa is a married lady now and I know she entered into her marriage without any previous physical relationship experience. Mimi hall is not married as yet, however I believe she is saving that part of her for her marriage. Unfortunately Jodi was the only one to see that particular side of Travis. He had many sides and a wide spectrum of personalities many of his niece Mormon friends( like me at that time) were not privy to. Do not paint all or any of us with this “very plastic” perception. It is presumptuous and incorrect. I am not plastic. I have all of the emotions and a whole range of feelings. I am Mormon, I am a woman, I am a mother and I am a supporter of Jodi.

              • “I am Mormon, I am a woman, I am a mother and I am a supporter of Jodi.”

                Great comment all the way around.

              • Oh Gosh, Bella, you have ALL the emotions we all have. Anyone who says differently, is a complete liar. You are an exemplary Mormon, woman, and mother, and not in that particular order, either. Each one of those things stands alone. Most of all, as I know you from this forum, you are an exemplary human being, one comprised almost entirely, of compassion and love. The minimal anger you ever express is completely understandable. Your compassion for both the Alexander and the Arias family is one we should ALL ascribe for. You are the kind of person I would only hope I could be some day.

                And as unlikely as it seems to those of us who have engaged in and even enjoyed premarital sex, I do believe there are people in this world who conceive of it as a “sin”. I’m engaged to someone who only engaged in it with one other person before me. Having come from a marriage with a man who effed everything that walked, I love this. My fiance is a very normal man. He has the same desires as any other man. He just didn’t indulge in them because he believed they should be saved for someone he loved. He’s a very very good looking man who had a million chances, especially as he worked in a night club. He chose not to. For that, I applaud him.

              • Bella, I would like to reiterate my appreciation for your contributions to this discourse. I know that you have been put in an impossible situation (sometimes by me, and I thank you very much for navigating the rock and the hard place for the benefit of my enlightenment) in speaking for your entire community, your entire faith, etc. You are so bright, and so measured, and so uniquely situated, that our entire conversation is immeasurably better because of your participation.

              • I agree Bella! You know them, so I have no doubt you are right. I never thought they slept with Travis. I also didn’t think he pushed it with them as much since he wanted to actually get married to them.

                That does not mean that Travis did not have physical relationships with girls before he moved to Mesa or with girls that were not part of the Mormon church. I do not believe Jodi was his first or that she tempted him.

              • I do believe you Bella when you said that non of them had sex with Travis. I know a few Mormons and I know how they are with their convictions. I really admire when women value them selves and wait until marriage to have intimacy. the only thing about Mimi that I didn’t like was what I have mentioned before, when she was ask if she believe that Jodi was a stalker and she said yes. this off course I saw it on HLN and that’s probably why I got that impression of her. But than again, that was just my opinion.

                • Mimi was reiterating the information she was presented with. I believe she had no first hand knowledge of Jodi. So when asked her opinion and for information diring her questioning, she had no basis to go on of her own, first hand. She simply had to regurgitate information Travis would have stated to her. Since he was “wooing” Mimi it’s doubtful he would have painted Jodi in a great light. Or at least that is my simpleminded synopsis.

    • I agree, I think they’re spreading false information to try and set Jodi up for premeditation based on jealousy.

    • I wonder though, is that what the motion for protective order is about? Because, if this is true, it would be EXTREMELY prejudicial to the jury.

    • Nicole…just relax..I keep telling myself to relax to when I heard this nonsense from HLN…everyone in their right mind knows how HLN operates on their twisting of the truth to make that splash of sensationalism news on their banner board each night….

      RATINGS…when more viewers tune into their television station and watch the nonsense…this produces HIGHER RATINGS FOR THEIR NETWORK….and the HIGHER THEIR RATINGS…the more money the network gets…

    • BULLSHIT. Plain and simple. The sex tape shows that Jodi knew Travis was going to Cancun without her, and they were making plans for after the fact.

      Yeah, I totally agree about them “releasing” this “new!” information during the weekend, when they think the jury will be watching. Is it possible for HLN to be slapped with a gag order? If it is, what are they waiting for?

      • MB…I feel this to be true from watching HLN as they kept doing the Mock Trial each night…they got more aggressive with the mock trial night after night and only covered key elements that they seemed to be wanting to reinforce to the viewing audience…

        I feel they are really doing the MOCK TRIAL each night just for the benefit of the jurors who are watching…jurors are human…and I feel they are watching…

        Watch how Vinnie Politan and the others look directly into the camera as they foolishly act out the crime scene in their own way….it’s like by looking directly into the camera they are reiterating to the jurors their subliminal messages…”This is the way that it happened and she is guilty”

        POSSIBLY HLN has already done too much harm for Jodi Arias at this time of the trial…even if a gag order was possible…

    • I was on my way home from work yesterday listening to satellite radio when they played this song. It could have been written about HLN.

      Don Henley Dirty Laundry

      I make my living off the Evening News
      Just give me something-something I can use
      People love it when you lose,
      They love dirty laundry

      Well, I coulda been an actor, but I wound up here
      I just have to look good, I don’t have to be clear
      Come and whisper in my ear
      Give us dirty laundry

      Kick ’em when they’re up
      Kick ’em when they’re down
      Kick ’em when they’re up
      Kick ’em when they’re down
      Kick ’em when they’re up
      Kick ’em when they’re down
      Kick ’em when they’re up
      Kick ’em all around

      We got the bubble-headed-bleach-blonde who
      Comes on at five
      She can tell you ’bout the plane crash with a gleam
      In her eye
      It’s interesting when people die-
      Give us dirty laundry

      Can we film the operation?
      Is the head dead yet?
      You know, the boys in the newsroom got a
      Running bet
      Get the widow on the set!
      We need dirty laundry

      You don’t really need to find out what’s going on
      You don’t really want to know just how far it’s gone
      Just leave well enough love
      Eat your dirty laundry

      Kick ’em when they’re up
      Kick ’em when they’re down
      Kick ’em when they’re up
      Kick ’em when they’re down

      Kick ’em when they’re up
      Kick ’em when they’re down
      Kick ’em when they’re stiff
      Kick ’em all around

      Dirty little secrets
      Dirty little lies
      We got our dirty little fingers in everybody’s pie
      We love to cut you down to size
      We love dirty laundry

      We can do “The Innuendo”
      We can dance and sing
      When it’s said and done we haven’t told you a thing
      We all know that Crap is King
      Give us dirty laundry!

  35. I’ve been regularly reading up on this case and watching the trial. I am team jodi, in the sense that I do not believe she deserves the DP. Simply it cannot be substantiated. Travis lived a double life, as others have already stated here over and over again.

    Two things. 1.) someone was wondering why Chris Hughes was allowed to be on the talking head shows…this might be why: http://wildabouttrial.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Aria-Response-to-Motion-to-Exclude-Witnesses.pdf. I’m not sure if the court ok’d this or not.

    2.) someone asked about the 2nd degree plea, maybe this can help: http://wildabouttrial.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/jodi_arias-Plea-Bargain-document-2011.pdf. This plea bargain was turned down because the fam def wants DP as we all know.

    I’m sure the docs have been brought up here but found them last night and while I was reading this blog I saw a few people elude to these questions. So I thought I’d jump in.

    IMO this is a crime of passion. I’m too tired to go into my total thought process, and besides my opinions overall are parallel to most here already posting. ~~~rooting for jodi’s life and vindication~~~

    • HI Bebe

      I have made a site explaining the case here:

      http://jodi-arias.wikispaces.com/home

      It really is a self-defence case, not a crime of passion. Alexander was abusing and controlling Jodi, he once strangled her until she blacked out. She kept forgiving him, but on the day of the murder he got mad because there was a computer virus on his computer. She calmed him down, but then they went upstairs, and she accidentally dropped his camera. Then he chased her around the apartment, and she was really scared, so she got his gun down from a shelf and pointed it at him to keep him away. But he kept coming the gun went off, he was shot, and he then threatened her life. we don’t know what happened after that, because poor Jodi was so terrified she doesn’t remember, that’s what can happen when you are really, really terrified. And also, you act on instinct, you don’t have make normal decisions. So Jodi ended up killing Travis, even though she loved him.

  36. Does anyone think that the jurors are believing her? The smart ass questions they asked yesterday really made me nervous and judging by the content of some, I don’t think they are buying her story and I don’t think they believe the Dr. Do you think that the way JM is acting will influence them in any way? Also, these questions lead me to believe that they are watching the media coverage and are asking questions based on what they are hearing. I’m not a legal expert lol so if these questions seem dumb, please forgive me 🙂

    • Your questions are not dumb at all. I tweeted Vladimir Gigac. He said you cannot tell anything from the questions. Anyone who claims otherwise is just making assumptions.

      • Thank you, Nk. I think I have been listening to too many haters and they have gotten me a little nervous. There is really nowhere to go, other than this site, for unbiased information about the trial. Every news outlet crucifies the poor girl on a daily basis. I would just like to hear an unbiased expert’s opinion about how they think the trial is going. I swear, this trial has consumed my life lol it’s a good thing that I have the luxury of not having to work so I can watch it every day!

      • EXACTLY! Mr. Gagic is right on the money. It’s been a long time since I’ve been involved in trials on a regular basis. But, what I can tell you is that you absolutely can NOT judge what a jury is thinking. Now, when I worked for a law firm that did a lot of trials, we did not have juror questions after every witness. But after they went into deliberation, they could ask questions or ask for evidence, or whatever they needed. I remember many many nights where we were called back at 8, 9, 10, 11 p.m., and once when they wanted to deliberate all night, and were called back at 3 a.m., to answer them.

        I will actually never forget that night in particular. It had been a 6 week trial (which was long for us) and we had all been working sooooo many hours. Then, the jury went into deliberation and it was this big letdown. We really thought we’d won our case and it would be a slam dunk. But there were a few jurors who had looked at our client with sour puss on their faces.

        Then the jurors took 2 weeks to deliberate. The judge was becoming very impatient because they still couldn’t reach a verdict and he was about to call a hung jury. That night, they asked 3 things at 3 a.m. And we all left extremely discouraged. We were certain that we had lost the case, by what they asked for. We were certain they did not believe our experts or our client. We had no doubt. In fact, we were basically begging the other side for a settlement. They were offering us crap just to save the cost of an appeal, basically, because they were also certain we had lost. They left there triumphant.

        At 4 a.m., we got word that the jury had retired for a few hours but were extremely close to a verdict and wanted to start again at 9 a.m. I bit all my nails off, as did everyone in our office. And then, at 9:25 a.m., we got the dreaded call. They had reached a verdict. When we got to the court, we were all on the verge of tears. We just wanted it to be over. Lo and behold, the jury came back with an unprecedented $150 million dollar total verdict award. What had “hung” them up (which was not something they asked about) was how much to award for pain and suffering. And the look on the faces of the other side was priceless. They HATED us that morning.

        The other interesting thing was that the juror we were most worried about was the one who wanted to award even more! And the juror we thought we had in our pocket was the one who was in doubt almost the whole way through during deliberation.

        The moral of the story is: with a jury, you just never know until you know.

        • I agree that with a jury, you never know until you know but I’ve never witnessed a trial where jurors got to ask questions. I did find some of them worrisome.

        • AlsoAbused,

          I love your post. It so vividly takes me into a world of experience I would never have known – into the back room scene of awaiting the jury verdict.

          I never would have guessed that legal staff could be compelled to remain on hand to serve the need to provide answers for the jury 24/7.

          You carefully crafted a spell-binder up to the very end. It gives me goose bumps!

          Thank you, Chelion

          • Thanks Chelion. Behind every good lawyer, there’s a support staff like you wouldn’t believe … from messengers to receptionists to secretaries to paralegals to law clerks to junior associate lawyers.

            With so much available online today, I always wonder how we accomplished anything back in the day when we had to hit the actual books to do research. There are still sleepless nights where it’s all hands on deck during a trial or important hearing though. And I still wonder how attorneys show up in court looking so polished after so many sleepless nights in a row.

        • thanx for the insight Also Abused,posts like this make me feel more relieved because by nature I tend to be really pessimistic,to the point I was almost crying when listening to the Jurors’ questions.I need people like you to keep up my faith in a positive outcome for our Jodi!

    • I find the questions a bit worrisome as well. What makes me mad is all these people saying the doctor is full of crap. What do they know? Are they professionals? Are they trained in this field? No, but Dr. Samuels is. Therefore, he obviously knows what he’s talking about. I am tired of all the people who seem to think they know more than the doctor. I hope the jury doesn’t feel that way.

      • Well, what I would like to ask the “experts” on HLN is were they actually in the bathroom the day this all went down? If not, then they need to STFU and stop automatically assuming that they know what really happened. It is very sad that someone lost their life, but as we all have seen, this person was FAR from perfect and it seems as though he may not have been physically abusive to her all the time, but he definitely was emotionally, mentally and verbally abusive and I believe she just snapped.

      • I honestly believe that the #1 factor working against Jodi is that the jury wasn’t sequestered. I don’t mean to be negative, but it just astounds me.

        • Oh, I totally agree with you. A jury that is on a trial that is so high profile like this one should have been sequestered. I can’t figure out why they didn’t sequester them. You know damn well these people are watching every bit of the coverage.

          • Exactly, and how can they possibly arrive at an impartial conclusion? In the “court of public opinion”, Jodi’s guilty. Every news site that I read is clearly biased and highly skeptical of any conclusion other than pre-meditated murder. I think it will take a strong jury to filter out all the media hype and focus solely on the evidence, or lack thereof.

            • Jamison….what you said is the very reason that I believe that HLN…Vinnie Politan and others are so insistent that they do the MOCK TRIAL each night…

              I feel they are really doing the MOCK TRIAL each night just for the benefit of the jurors who are watching…jurors are human…and I feel they are watching…

              Watch how Vinnie Politan and the others look directly into the camera as they foolishly act out the crime scene in their own way….it’s like by looking directly into the camera they are reiterating to the jurors their subliminal messages…”This is the way that it happened and she is guilty”

    • Some of the questions did come off as smart-assed (the bad haircut one for example), but I wonder if maybe the juror just has an odd sense of humor that came off wrong on paper. It’s hard to know.

    • I’ll be honest Leanne, I am not thrilled with the jurors questions either. BUT – I just remind myself that these questions might be coming from one or two that might not make it to the actual jury room. They could be alternates.

      There is hope, and it takes only one…

      • MB,
        Have you noticed that some of the questions are the same and worded the same. I assume that ONE peson had to put the same question in there 2 or 3 times.
        I think a juror probably would ask it and another one similiar, but especially in Jodi’snd now doing the same to Dr. Samuels.

        When a question is asked from the juror, don’t they have the NUMBER of the juror and if it’s asked twice from the same one, toss one OR there are jurors talking and asking the same question in the same wording.
        Do I make sense as to what I’ trying to say? : )

          • joujou,
            One of the talking heads said that 2 of the jurors had become close and when they came in
            kind of rolled their eyes, like what are we getting today??
            They aren’t supposed to do that either, right?

            • Are you serious? The jurors are NOT supposed to talk about the case with one another. That is really really wrong. I’m sure jurors end up chatting on coffee/smoke breaks. But they really really really should NOT be talking about the case with one another until deliberation. If the talking heads are saying this, someone needs to tell the lawyers so they can bring it to the attention of the judge.

              • Yes, I heard this on HLN too. This was mentioned on Nancy Grace. They are not supposed to be talking about the trial, but if they are clearly forming a “mutual understanding” then they have communicated enough to know where one another stands.

                Not to mention, how HLN folks have said “the juror questions are our questions too!” Now wouldn’t that cast doubt that some of the jurors are respecting the judge’s admonishment to ignore the media? I think so.

        • Sorry, I forgot to check this thread (happens a lot, hard for me to keep track)

          Yes, I have noticed some of the questions are worded the same. Isn’t it interesting that HLN has NOT specified which jurors are handing in the most questions? Perhaps it’s because it’s the same one or two jurors and HLN doesn’t want the folks at home to know that the anti-Jodi sentiment is in fact not the prevailing opinion in the jury box? Quite possibly!

  37. Do you all think the defense protective order might be to get the jury sequestered now? I mean, the judge did question the jurors a lot before they left yesterday.

    Hmmmm.

    • That would be a different type of motion. I am more worried that it’s to suppress this evidence that Jodi was originally going to be going to Cancun. Of course, that could have been a year in advance. I think I remember someone saying (one of his friends) that the trip was planned that far in advance?? Anyone else remember that? I have a difficult time listening to his friends about anything, so I tend to forget what they say.

      • Yes, I definitely read that the Cancun trip was planned one year in advance. No big surprise that it was coming up. Further, Jodi was not taken by surprise that Travis planned to take Mimi.

        Cancun may sound romantic, but I would bet that Jodi would not relish being stuck with all those PPL and Mormon “friends” who made is a very subtle point that they looked down on her.

        She also had to experience Travis acting like he was ashamed of her when his friends were around. How abusive, humiliating, and degrading.

        I pray that when Jodi gets beyond this mess that she can start her life in a fresh direction, free from the influence of control groups.

      • Didnt Mimi Hall testified on the stand that her ticket was already booked quite in advance and couldnt change it and NOT go even after telling TA that she had no romantic interest in him??

        • I don’t remember that, to be honest. I remember her saying she hesitated before agreeing to go. When she found out that she would be staying with a Mormon family and girls/guys would not be together, she felt more comfortable about going. Also, I believe she said she had been there before.

  38. I ponder on how much the media circus is stirring the pot on the hatred that is brewing. I will admit that though I was not a Casey Anthony hater I just did not follow the trial back then. I will be honest and say I just saw clips from the news and perhaps thought she might have been guilty. But when people were calling on the death threats for the Jury in the CA case I had to really question my own stupidity here. I looked at the case w/o the media goggles and saw that the State overcharged her and did not prove their case. Why all the hate for a jury that make the correct decision based on the evidence in front of them. The blame if any should lie on the State IMO.

    I came into this case late but knew not to listen to the media anymore. Lesson learned here. I actually was not watching the news channels on this case and did not even know about the trial or case until 2 weeks ago I think. I tend to Tivo most of the shows I watch so that is probably why I knew nothing on this case. However when I saw the 48 hours show one night nothing on that show set rght with me, Nothing really made sense in the charges nor some of the shady information surrounding this case. Honestly it still does not. When I looked into some evidence on the net and found that tape in TA’s own words that is all it took for me to support Jodi here. I saw and heard from his own mouth the abuse he had inflicted on her. I learned early on those other sites just rip you apart and I find it refreshing to come here and see such insightful well thought out comments. As much as I try to avoid the hatred they disgust me with the snarky comments about Jodi and post stupid pictures on twitter of things photo shopped about Jodi. That are just as sick as some of the things TA said. I know he is not here but he left so much media that speaks to who he really was and not them person they parade around on any talk show they can find. I still say there is some cover up on a lot of things and we may never know sadly.

    • Beautiful post, AJ thank you for sharing. I did follow the CA trial, but did not know there was a web site for support or I would have been there too. I do not post to any other site but this one, and I make a point not to go to the hater sites because all they offer is a bunch of abusive bullshit.

  39. I have never seen religious bigotry the likes of this! All of you need to visit a Mormon church. I have known Mormons and they are good, industrious people. We need to quit thinking of other people’s religions as cults. I guarantee all of you that no other Mormons are involved in this other than Jodi and the one dead. I do agree with Jose however when he says that every reasonable theory of innocence should be excluded before we convict. The standard has not been met here, not for first or second degree murder.

    • All churches are different, even though the same donomination, some are stricter.

      Also they preach a tone of greatness and eveyone should be like that, some take it seriously, others don’t.

      I’ve seen like maybe a group of any church take off and try to do their own and become a cult OR
      like I said SOME are seriously thinking they’re going to hell, where other’s in the SAME church aren’t as
      concerned. They say it, but don’t act it.

      I personally don’t like any organized religion and allof them are I am just fine with that.
      AND I don’t believe there is a hell.
      To each their own, but O do know that brainwashing is worse than drugs.

    • Drew Hensley says:
      March 22, 2013 at 8:36 pm

      “I have never seen religious bigotry the likes of this! All of you need to visit a Mormon church.”

      Chelion:
      Based on links I have followed, due to the open thinking and researching on this site, I have learned that there are specific, objective criteria that characterize whether an organization (not simply religions orgs) might be a cult.

      Drew:
      “I have NEVER seen religious BIGOTRY the likes of this! ALL of you NEED to . . .”

      Chelion:
      Decide for yourselves:
      “ALL of you NEED to”

      • Chelion,

        What characteristics define an organization or group as being a cult? I understanding brainwashing does. What else?

        • JC – Team Jodi Admin, thank you for asking this question:
          I found out this topic can be extremely involved. I finally chose a simple 13 point list.

          http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/uploads/CultCharacteristics.htm#Cult%20Information%20Centre

          The URL should bring up more than you want to know. I breaks down all of the segments and explains them in detail.

          As a concise list, I like the 13 points below.

          
          Carol Giambalvo (13 Characteristics)

          1. Authoritarian in their power structure.

          2. Totalitarian in their control of the behavior of their members.

          3. Pyramidal structure.

          4. Uses thought reform techniques.

          5. Isolation of members (physical and/or psychological isolation) from society.

          6. Uses deception in recruiting and/or fund raising.

          7. Promotes dependence of the members on the group.

          8. Totalitarian in their world view.

          9. Uses mind altering techniques (chanting, meditation, hypnosis and various forms of repetitive actions) to stop normal critical thinking.

          10. Appear exclusive and innovative.

          11. Charismatic or messianic leader who is self-appointed and has a special mission in life.

          12. Controls the flow of information.

          13. Instills a fear of leaving the group.

  40. Any idea where Willmott is heading with how the raw data was acquired?

    I read something in a previous days posts about a HIPAA violation.
    Can anyone who knows more about this please explain it in detail?

    Slightly confused…

    • Candie,

      Another poster said, “Actually I’m in my senior year of a bachelor degree in Criminal and IT security and HIPPA laws do not encompass criminal proceedings as long as the courts, law enforcement , laywers all obtained the informaiton following evidentiary rules. Which basically means anyone being prosecuted in criminal cases really have no rights when it comes to HIPPA violations”

      I agree. HIPPA ( I’m fairly sure has to do with the release of information to insurers and doctor to doctor.) I don’t think it has to do with anything in this case but i could be wrong. 🙂

      • No, you are correct. HIPAA is the Health Information Portability and Privacy Act, and it has to do with patient’s rights regarding the confidentiality of their healthcare. I think the Patriot Act attempted to chip away at this somewhat – I remember having to sign a form at my OB-GYN office, as if whatever contraception I’m using is indicative of whether or not I’m a domestic terrorist. :b

      • I thought it had to do with the fact that Demarte released that information and not Samuels. Why didnt the defense have a copy then?

    • I missed this bit. But wasn’t there something about Dr. Samuels turning over a copy, not the original? Or, did he have a copy?

    • Someone here asked the following: “Any idea where Willmott is heading with how the raw data was acquired?”

      The release of “raw data” from the psychologist ( for the pros) is a serious beech of code of ethics .

      Dr. Samuels only provided the raw data to the psychologist for the prosecution . If she then turned this raw data over to JM … This is a breech in the professional code if ethics under both the Az state licensing board as well as Ethical Principles of Psychologists and Code of Conduct.

      If JM wants to call into question Dr. Samuels professional ethics on a completely unrelated case , then let
      The defense show the blatant ethical offence of the psychologist for the prosecution in this case.
      This psychologist will likely have a review by licensing board of examiners for this .
      http://www.psychboard.az.gov/agency/formDoc.asp?theType=0&section=3&Go=Go

      Board of statutes
      Psychologists Rules (continuous PDF)

      TITLE 4. PROFESSIONS AND OCCUPATIONS CHAPTER 26. BOARD OF PSYCHOLOGIST EXAMINERS

      ARTICLE 3. REGULATION
      R4-26-301. Rules of Professional Conduct
      A psychologist shall practice psychology in accordance with the ethical standards contained in standards 1.01 through 10.10 of the “Ethical Principles of Psyhologists and Code of Conduct” adopted by the American Psychological Association

      Ethical Principles of Psychologists and Code of Conduct

      2. Evaluation, assessment, OR intervention
      2.01 Evaluation, diagnosis, and interventions in professional context

      (b) Psychologists refrain from misuse of assessment techniques, interventions, results, and interpretations and take reasonable steps to prevent others from misusing the information these tech- niques provide. This includes refraining from releasing raw test results or raw data to persons, other than to patients or clients as appropriate, who are not qualified to use such information. (See also Standards 1.02, Relationship of Ethics and Law, and 1.04, Boundaries of Competence.)