Jodi Arias Trial – Day 2

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Looks like Juan Martinez has some anger issues of his own today. Shouting down his own witness? What’s next? Some joke about pigs in a blanket?

It gets better every day.

Leave your comments below…


    • Ha, I think it’s the similar hair color and style that does it. Kudos to you for challenging MM in the last thread. What kind of lame ass, good for nothing ‘friend’ does nothing but make excuses for why he can’t help save that friend’s life.

      • Agreed. It had to be done. The stakes cannot be more serious.

        At least he honestly admits his dishonesty…

        Whatever that’s worth.

        • Of course they’d rule him out as reliable for refusing to cooperate, which begs the question – did he really expect that doing basically the same thing here would produce a different outcome? Shaking my head for real.

        • If it were me I couldn’t sleep at night. I could never let someone I care for die. I’m sorry but I don’t think much of this M&M guy.

  1. Is the jury allowed to convict on a charge lesser than first degree murder? Would they be able to submit a guilty verdict for manslaughter or involuntary manslaughter?

    • Depends on AZ law, but I think they can IF the state includes those as possible charges & the judge instructs them about those options b4 deliberation. Failure to include possible lessers can result in an acquittal (think Casey Anthony). Not providing those options usually indicates a lot of confidence (or overconfidence) on the part of the DA.

      • Overconfidence was surely one of the main motivations of Casey’s prosecution team. They thought that Murder 1/DP was a given. Though they did include some lessers (aggravated manslaughter and child abuse), which of course they also failed to prove.

        I agree about MM from the previous post – if he is Jodi’s friend and can testify that Travis abused her in the past, then he should. It’s the right thing to do.

        • Check out the rest of MM’s posts, though. Admitted liars are bad for any case. It makes me doubt the truthfulness of everything MM said. Several posters easily tore MM apart for blatant inconsistencies. To their credit, MM admitted being a liar & quit posting.

      • You guys can check this out –> it talks about what criteria is necessary according to Arizona Law to find someone guilty of first-degree murder and then also to give them the death penalty. The jury instructions could be different from this, but not majorly.
        Also, I couldn’t find anywhere online where they have the indictment up, but I’ve also not read anywhere where there are lesser included charges. There are websites that discuss the different charges of manslaughter, second-degree, and first-degree, but these could be assumptions about charges.

  2. Jodi’s defense also admitted emails of Travis calling Jodi a slut and a whore. Does a nice christian man use such derogatory terms about a woman?

    • Most of the Christians I know don’t act Christ-like at all. I’m NEVER surprised at the hypocrisy of the staunchly religious.

    • On TV they’re reporting that Travis wrote those things in an email to Jodi because he thought she was just using him for sex. Another thing he wrote to her in the same email: “I’m just a dick with a heartbeat to you.”

      It’s clearly not sounding like they were much of a love match.

      • Worse than that was the audio of her phone call to the cop. OUCH! The jury heard her dig for details she later admits to having created. That’s gonna be tough for the D.

        Any theories out there on how to deal w/ this in court?

        • In the immortal words of Ricky Ricardo, “Lucyyy, you’ve got some splainin’ to do.”

          I don’t see how the direction her defense lawyers are apparently taking this will mean much in the end without Jodi taking the stand because she was the only witness for 99.99% of it.

          • I agree. At this point, she needs more than her own words, though. Her credibility is already shot. What they need is something physical like medical records showing a history of injuries consistent w/ abuse. I wonder if they have those.

          • Do you know if the trial will be televised on TruTV when they resume their regular In Session daily program next Monday?

          • I thought live coverage starts on the 7th. However, the trial resumes on Tuesday, so I assume that’s when coverage will start.

          • Never mind, I Googled it and the answer is yes.

            For anyone interested..

            TruTV’s In Session’s live coverage of the Jodi Arias trial begins next Monday, January 7 beginning at 9 a.m.

    • I have a correction to make, in the interest of maintaining accuracy:

      “I was nothing more than a dildo with a heartbeat for you,” Travis Alexander told Arias in a Facebook message, according to Mesa police detective Esteban Flores.

      Flores statement came just hours after the detective told the jury that Alexander had sent emails to Arias calling her a “slut” and a “whore.”

  3. @ the top of the day 2 thread, SJ states that the DA shouted down his own witness. Did I miss it? Can anyone clear this up for me? SJ?

    • I came across an article which I think addresses your question from two perspectives. First, here’s a quote from that article which I’m citing as an example of what could cause friction:

      Alexander had told friends Arias had become too possessive and was acting like a stalker, so he ended their relationship to see other women.

      Mesa police detective Esteban Flores downplayed the stalker description, saying Alexander was inviting Arias to his home and the phone calls between them “were back and forth.”


      Now, down in the reader comments for that article, I noticed this:

      by DaunParadox January 3, 2013 4:48 PM EST

      Will someone please tell the prosecutor in the Arias trial to stop being so aggressive and condescending to his own witnesses? I’m 100% on the side of the prosecution, but the defense attorney is way more ‘likeable’ than the prosecutor, and a lot less spazzy. This guy needs to calm down and think about how he sounds to the jury, and how abrasive his tone and attitude are. I personally think this prosecutor is terrible.

      • Thx 4 that! I wouldn’t call that, “shouting down.” Seems like an exaggeration. Lawyers do get frustrated when their witnesses don’t answer as expected sometimes, & the jury should not be able to tell. Effective witness prep is essential.

          • I saw it as aggressive and it came across as bullying. It appeared he was trying to intimidate his own witnesses, which makes zero sense to me and I’m pretty sure would backfire on any jury.

          • The thing is, they may dislike his style, but what’s far more memorable are the gory crime scene photos ( that’s likely why the DA ended both days on the imagery). Humans are very visual (unless visually impaired, of course). It’s NOT like seeing a movie. They will have those images burned into their brains all weekend. It’s powerful. Especially when their sitting in the same room with TA’s family reacting to the same thing. Some of these folks will experience long-term psych-emo trauma as a result. Judges often offer counseling in these types of cases as a result.

            Much more impact than, “I don’t like his style.”

  4. I’m not convinced she’s either innocent or guilty at this point. I do have some questions though
    – Why would a woman who was abused move to the state of her abuser to be closer to him?
    – Would would a woman who was abused come over to his house to be with him?
    – Why would she not report the slaying right away if she was truly innocent?
    – Why does it take a gun shot, slit throat and 29 stab wounds to defend oneself? The gun shot in and of itself wasn’t enough?
    – It is merely coincidence that JA’s grandparents reported a .25 caliber gun stolen days before the murder?
    – Why would an innocent woman first lie to the police, then to the media, and then give a completely different story altogether when neither of those two versions of events held up?
    – Why was the camera found in the washing machine? Was it to erase the last pictures on it?
    – Was TA ever convicted of a crime against another girlfriend? Are there other girlfriends from his past that report he was abusive towards them?
    This whole situation really doesn’t add up to self defense at all but if it was I hope the truth can and will come out in a court of law.

    • Valid questions @ the core of the state’s case… These are the issues that must be addressed by the Def for the jury.

    • All my same thoughts as well.

      I have not made up my mind as innocent or guilty to Pre mediation, which is the obvious final question. However, i do have 2 major questions that i am hoping to find the answers to as this unravels, as the answers will greatly sway my personal decision.

      1. What was a knife doing in the bathroom in such close proximity to them? I could see if perhaps they had dinner watching TV in the bedroom area (no mention of that yet) but the bathroom? His house seemed very tidy in the pictures. A random out of place very sharp knife makes no sense.

      2. Where did the gun come from, and why did she have it again… in such close proximity.

      If she brought the items with her, in her purse or overnight bag… I may think premeditation due to her knowing about the upcoming Cancun trip. She may have acted like a “booty call” but had a seperate agenda, which is why she lied, and “destroyed” the pics. Jealous people do crazy things. Again, I hope these questions are answered so I can make a better overall judgement.

      Of course this is assuming all of these events happened in 1.33 minutes… which I find hard to see how they would know that with the extreme decay on the victim.

      • I can address your last point re: the 1:33 minutes. That is the amount of time which elapsed from the last digital camera time-stamped photo of Travis alive to the first showing him deceased.

        At 5:30 p.m., there’s a time-stamped photo of Alexander alive.

        At 5:32 p.m. there’s a time-stamped photo of Alexander’s dead body on the bathroom floor.

  5. I would say if the dafanse can show on the pictures of her coming to have fun with her boyfreind and just 2 minutes latter he is dead on the last picture then it means that something happened in between and she did not come to kill him

      • Still from travis’s side it was abusive and this why he got angry on sher because the relationship was not a lovely one from his side but it was fun from her side don’t the pictures show a fun environment between them?

  6. Also of the dafance can bring an expert the explain the gone shot and 27 wounds and the slitting throat as an action of scare that she was so sceared and want to make sure that he cannot hurt her this would b3 helpful

  7. Hey. I’ve been reading up on the case, and I’ve seen the usual bullshit on HLN, and basically (behind the scenes) this Travis guy was a real bastard to Jodi. A real bastard! He used her, and he abused her whenever he could. He used Jodi as a punch bag too. Ya, I saw a picture of his punch bag in the house photos during the live trial feed the other day, and I thought to myself “ok, so this bastard had 2 punch bags then?”

    So what do I think happened? Well, I wasn’t there (obviously), but I think he got angry with Jodi (again), they started fighting (again), and she defended herself (again)… only this time he pushed her too far, and she opened a can of whoop-ass on the fucca. And even though it was self-defense, I still have no idea how ALL that could have happened in like 90 seconds. I even chatted with my girlfriend about it last night, and she don’t know either. And WHO was holding the top half of his body off the floor in the hallway when the last picture was taken? Also, after all that, why would someone wash him down then start doing the damn laundry and leave the camera in there unless they wanted it to be found?

    Anyways, maybe if she’d not done that, he might have killed her instead, or at least hospitalized her in a bad way. I dunno. But I’m pretty sure she didn’t go there on that day with the intention of killing him. It wasn’t like pre-planned. It just happened. Shyt happens sometimes, don’t it? The jury ain’t gonna buy murder 1 either, and she ain’t gonna get the death penalty for sure, even though that’ll be kinda “disappointing” for a lot of people, including Travis’ skeletal skanky sister. She always makes me puke when I see her btw.

    • You’ve stated the D’s theory in a nutshell. But remember, the D really needs something solid to show a pattern of abuse. If they fought, & it was sd, where are her injuries? That’s a question the jury will be asking. And, why the multiple detailed stories? Why not tell the truth right out of the gate? The D must address these issues if the jury is to acquit.

      • About saying the true I agree its a good question but I think an expert can explain that because nobody wants to be a murderer even for self defends so as long she was not forced to confess on it she was more comfortable to say she was not involved

  8. Did Jodi break up with Travis over his indiscretions? If so, that doesn’t show her to be a stalker type chick to me.

    Where in the evidence does it say without a doubt that Jodi is trying to drag the body away? Does it show her face?

    The body was washed away of blood, but there is a palm print found elsewhere?

    You take the gun, but u dump a camera AND the memory card in a washing machine? WTF? That makes no sense.

    The friends call Arias crazy, b

  9. Continued

    But obviously she’s not crazy enough to prevent him from banging her.

    Allegedly she slashed his tires, but they continue with having sex.

    His Facebook page isn’t littered with her stalker ish ways. Couldn’t a MySpace browsing history be obtained to back this up as well?

    My main issue is, you take the gun but leave behind the money card?

    And the camera gets dropped and takes 2 pics? Huh.

    Correct me if I’m wrong about any of that.

    • You would think she would take the camera too. Maybe, someone is trying to frame Jodi. One of Travis’s ex’s or friends. It just makes no sense like you said.

    • – Travis broke up with Jodi to date other women.

      – Jodi and Travis were the only persons there at the time this occurred.

      – Jodi’s bloody palm print containing a mixture of both her and Travis’ blood and DNA was found in the bathroom.

      – Any Facebook and MySpace comments are dwarfed by the 10s of thousands (literally) of email exchanges between Travis and Jodi.

      – Presumably, throwing the camera in the wash with the bloody towel and Travis’ bedding was a follow up to manually deleting the photos to insure their destruction, or else it got inadvertently mixed in.

      – Digital cameras are sensitive to both sudden extreme movement and the force of being dropped, either of which could easily cause it to take unintended snaps. It was also a brand new camera that Travis had just bought, so Jodi was unfamiliar with it.

    • Don’t forget: she did delete the pics (but they were recovered). The cam was put in a washer w/ the door to the memory card broken off. Then it was washed w/ bleach in the wash ( the towels had bleach on them in the same wash). I would’ve thought that’d destroy the mem card myself. Anyone who’s accidentally washed anything electronic knows what happens…

      Smacks of an attempt to destroy evidence.

      • I’m amazed the photos survived too. I attribute it to high quality technological advancement (must have been a very good camera) combined with high tech forensic retrieval methodology.

      • Maybe, But we weren’t there. I think this site is about looking at things from another angle. I get she LOOKS very guilty according to prosecution’s evidence. Prosecutors have excluded important evidence before, falsified evidence etc..

  10. Looking at the autopsy diagrams, I am finding it more and more difficult to believe that this was self defense. The majority of the wounds appear to be in his back. It’s not exactly self-defense to repeatedly stab someone in the back…..
    I think it is more likely she killed him in an angry rage.

    • As best I can recall, here is the sequence of events that led up to Travis’ back wounds:

      There were 10 stab wounds to the upper back area out of a total of 27 (or 29 if you count the defensive wounds to his hands). The first stab wound was inflicted on Travis while he sat in the shower, entering his heart through the chest and was fatal according to the coroner’s report. It took some time for the accumulated blood loss to cause a loss of consciousness, allowing Travis opportunity to stand and struggle with Jodi. During that struggle, Jodi inflicted additional stab wounds to Travis’ chest and stomach. As increasing weakness began to overtake Travis, he grabbed the front of the sink to support himself, during which time Jodi inflicted the back wounds.

        • This is what I do not get… If all these stab wounds plus the slit throat plus the gunshot all happened within a minute and thirty two seconds, would it not take more than one person to be doing the stabbing?

          • Jodi retracted her intruders story and took total responsibility for Travis’ death herself.

            So far at least, it appears to me to have been a crime of passion, carried out in a heightened adrenalin state. Put another way, you could almost say she was in a temporary altered state bordering on insanity.

        • A lot can happen in 1:32. Can you touch someone 30 times in a minute and a half? One stab every 3 seconds on average… That’s SLOW folks. Even one stab per second is slow for an average person in a fight. It may seem like a lot of activity in 1:32, but, if you think about it, in the heat of passion, it’s not. 29 stab wounds could’ve been inflicted in less than 15 seconds. If TA was bleeding from the heart, he’d become weak immediately and bleed out in less than a minute. 1:32 is enough time to do it all including the gunshot to the head.

      • Thanks for explaining that, foxfire. It explained a lot. I wonder how the defense will explain her stabbing him while he was sitting in the shower? That seems a difficult task.

      • Ah, thanks for clearing up that the defensive wounds make 29. I was wondering why some sources said 27 wounds and other said 29.

      • You’re both very welcome. I had so many unanswered questions myself, that I watched last week’s courtroom proceedings broadcast on TruTv today. Glad I did too, because it gave me a starting point to process the rest. TV commentators are typically so busy trying to talk all over each other in high profile cases like this, that they confuse the crap out of me.

          • Nancy is a female banshee. I feel sorry for her kids. If she was my mother, I’d have run away from home and never looked back.

          • I can’t stand that Jane Velez-Mitchell either. I was flipping through channels today and heard her shrieking about the Arias trial today. “THE DEFENSE IS PRACTICALLY PUTTING THE VICTIM ON TRIAL!!!!!!” Uh, what does she expect the defense to do? They have to present a case for their side. Idiot.

  11. I wonder if the defense is going to bring in a bishop from his ward to testify to either travis approaching him about repenting or that he never did. There must be a reason for all the questions to the first witness about mormon doctrine.

    • Thanks for that Debbie. I recall hearing somewhere that Travis’ parents were drug addicts who treated their kids poorly. He and his siblings were fortunate to be able to rise above that because many children of drug addicts turn into addicts themselves, a cycle that too often perpetuates itself.

      I’m not ready to brand Travis an abusive person himself based on just that though. Had he turned out like his parents, perhaps, but he didn’t. I haven’t reached conclusions about any aspect of the case at this point.

      I can assure you though, if the defense produces just one former girlfriend, or anyone for that matter, who testifies that Travis mistreated them, I’ll be all ears.

      • I am glad I found this site – it’s nice to see others who haven’t made up their minds in a rush to judgment against Jodi Arias (or Travis Alexander!). Like foxfire, I will wait until more – MUCH more – is revealed.

        The thing that is intriguing and puzzling about this case, in my opinion, is the fact that both parties have already proven themselves to be untrustworthy. Obviously, JA lied repeatedly, both before and after the killing. TA was at least being secretive beforehand, if not outright lying. That being the case, we can’t believe much of anything that either of them has said to friends, family, or law enforcement. But, at the same time, assessing their characters is going to be vital to reaching a verdict.

        I don’t think there is a snowball’s chance in hell of JA taking the stand. And I also don’t put much stock in expert interpretations of their behavior – everyone is different, and behaves differently no matter what their emotions. That’s going to leave us and the jury precious little to go on. I’m going to be anxious to hear/read the recordings and transcripts of their phone calls, emails, texts, and chats. I suspect it is only there that we will be able to get an idea of what was really going on in their heads.

        That said – and I realize I’m coming close to contradicting myself here – I’m also anxious to hear from the friends that JA visited after leaving the scene. Not because of their assessment of her behavior, though. One would think that she would have some obvious cuts or bruises sustained during abuse or the actual killing. (I have heard of the bandages on her fingers afterwards, but I can’t help but think there must have been more.) I’d like to hear if that was the case.

        I’m no expert, but my guess is that, if it were indeed self-defense, TA initially left the shower and pursued JA, and that once beyond the bathroom she was able to pick up the knife from somewhere. Once she began fighting back they both fell back towards the bathroom again. Being a big guy, I would guess Travis fought back and a panicked Jodi just kept on stabbing, and finished by cutting his throat and getting the gun and shooting him in the head to make sure he would stop moving.

        Of course, I could be completely wrong! That’s just my theory du jour. 🙂 Looking forward to testimony resuming tomorrow.

        • If it was self-defense, I think that your theory is very plausible. Maybe Jodi took the picture of Travis in the shower, then dropped the camera…he got angry and left the shower to argue with her, and a fight broke out.

          • At the moment, it makes sense to me. I find it very difficult to picture a scenario in which Arias takes photos of Travis, then just picks up a knife and starts stabbing, totally unprovoked.

            I also suspect that she intended to take the camera with her, but in her panic it got mixed up with the bed linens – which I’m assuming she washed in an effort to remove the dna evidence that she undoubtedly left behind.

      • No problem foxfire. It seems that TA was also involved with PPL (prepaid legal services) which I consider a scam. From what I have gathered about the prepaid legal services is you pay so much a month and that gets you stuff that you could get for free and anything above that you have to pay the company, such as a will, or one letter written off to a company. I think his friends were way to quick to judge Ms Arias on slashing his tires, since he was involved with something like that… it could have been anyone that did it.

  12. How does a little girl like Jodi drag a big guy like Travis across the floor? Travis is twice her weight. I also agree with Michael that Jodi could have been in a panic after the attack and stabbed him so many times to make sure he was dead.

  13. I think It’s a shame we can’ believe whats in the news anymore. What happened to presenting us with facts not biased opinions? I don’t need to be told what to think. There is more truth to the national enquirer than whats in out news.

    • Jon you really never could believe what was in the news. 40 years ago I had a set of twin cousins that got burned in a fire. Nothing that was reported was fact. They didn’t even have their names or ages right. I have never trusted the news to be true. Much of the news is sensationalism.

      • My condolences Debbie, the least the news can do, if they are going to report what happened to make money, is get it right for the victims. If they can’t get minor stuff like ages right, how can we trust they will get complicated stuff like forensics or the law right? It is just ridiculous. The media has always had lying problems, look at what happened between Carnegie and Rockefeller in the papers during the late 1800s or the Lizzie Borden sensationalism, also in the late 1800s. It used to be called yellow journalism now its called expert opinion. What happened to the days of Bob Woodward and Deep Throat? Real investigations, uncovering corruption, informing the public, transparent government, right to know, innocent until proven guilty? At least there are bright spots like NPR, PBS, ProPublica, and some specials like documentaries on CurrentTV or MSNBC, or shows like I Didn’t Do It on ID. There are still some ways to avoid sensationalism. One great way is to self insert the word alleged into articles as you read them, it helps you keep in mind what’s important and what’s at stake, amidst the pro-prosecution/automatic guilt media reporting.

        • News is subjective, reporting is akin to investigating a crime. You piece together what facts are available, and draw conclusions based on probability, and logic. Same as the detectives will do. On a crime such as this, the news could not possibly get all the facts, as much of what they report comes directly for the police departments CID unit. They have drawn conclusions based on what physical evidence was available. When dealing with socio/psycho paths, true details, facts, motivation are always hazy. It really is typical. If she is convicted expect the story to change a couple more times. The only reason she is sticking with this story is that she has no other choice until the trial is over.

  14. The idiot friend of Travis’s, Taylor Searle, is on the NG show. I guess he is not going to be a witness in the trial since he is on the NG show. He claimed on tonight’s show that he warned Travis shortly before he was killed that Jodi might be dangerous. NG then asked him what did Travis say to that, and he could not say specifically what Travis’s reply was. He said he didn’t remember what Travis’s reply was. If this was true i’m sure that conversation would be burned into his memory. Taylor just wants to be on TV and NG is a disgrace for having this liar on her show to make stuff up.

    • Sounds like he just wants his 15 minutes of fame, much like all of the hangers-on who crawled out of the woodwork to give interviews about Casey.

    • He might still be a witness, look at Jesse Grund in the Casey Anthony case. He went on to Nancy Grace several times, including in December of 2008 and in March 2011 right before the trial. Now I know he didn’t actually testify because he was challenged by the prosecution and the judge disapproved of his testimony after his proffer, but he was going to, he knew he could. It’s funny though, when you follow his interviews and watch them, he seems to talk very positively and agree with the other prosecution witnesses about Casey Anthony being a nice person and a great mother. He is very consistent with his reports to police originally. He even made some appearances with his father, where they both agreed that Casey Anthony would be lost without Caylee because she measured her self-worth by her daughter. Then, after the verdict, he is outraged and “seething” on Nancy Grace? Wonder why? Oh that’s right, he wanted to sell a book about how dysfunctional the family was and how they changed Casey Anthony from when he originally met her to when they got back together, but no one was interested. Guess he thought he had to change to the media’s viewpoint in order to sell more copies, didn’t work out though. Reminds me of those photographers who went on Nancy Grace to share the Fusian photos, they were paid by Grace’s show to appear and to license their photos.

      I don’t know if you guys saw this, but here are some evidence photos from the Arias trial –>

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