Jodi Arias: Has the Government proven Murder One?

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Check out a few excerpts from Vladimir Gagic’s recent post below.

Vladimir hosted an online radio program via Blogtalkradio where Jodi’s trial was discussed. Click here to listen to the recording if you missed it.

Team Jodi

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Jodi Arias: Has the Government proven Murder One?

As far as I am concerned, the only issue in the Jodi Arias trial is has the government proven premeditation. That of course, is important because if the government has not proven premeditation, they cannot convict her of murder in the first degree and thus the death penalty is off the table. And while the government has also alleged murder in the first degree by way of felony-murder, that allegation is so specious as not to even warrant a response.

The government has not proven premeditation, and in fact, could not do so under any circumstances. Without direct evidence, either a confession by Ms. Arias that she intended to kill Mr. Alexander, as in “I wanted to kill to him”, or an overt act such as hiring a hit man or waiting in wait in ambush, the government cannot prove premeditation beyond a reasonable doubt. Note that I am not saying she did not intend to kill him or that there is not very good reason to suspect that she intended to kill him, just that the government will not be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. And that has been clear since day one. Someone asked me on twitter a question along the lines of “she lied so she doesn’t get the death penalty?”. My answer, yes, exactly right. To paraphrase Lt. Kaffee from a “Few Good Men”, it doesn’t matter what we know; it only matters what we can prove.

Instead of proving premeditation with direct evidence, the government is trying to do so with circumstantial evidence. So far the attempt has been, with the most charitable interpretation possible, pathetic. While the law does not recognize a distinction between direct and circumstantial evidence, there is a jury instruction that says exactly that, the inference the government wishes the jury to draw from the circumstantial evidence is, dare I say, comically lacking.

If they could have proven the gun that Ms. Arias used to shoot Mr. Alexander was in fact stolen by Ms. Arias then that would be very good evidence of premeditation. But they have not done so; nor are is the government able to do so. On cross examination, the government has asked her number of questions regarding gas cans. This could be fruitful to the government’s allegation of premeditation, but the prosecution has not closed the loop on this point.

In particular, my assumption is that there trying to prove Ms. Arias used gas cans to avoid being seen in Arizona at a gas station by either a witness or cameras. That, if true, would show planning of at least something. So why then didn’t Mr. Prosecutor flat out ask Mr. Arias if that was her intent? Instead, he avoided asking her that question because of one thing: fear. Mr. Prosecutor is afraid she will have an answer for the question and the jury will believe her. So he is instead doing what trial lawyers have been trained to do, save the ultimate question for closing argument when the other side has no chance to contradict your argument.

Under all circumstances, such a approach is cowardly and craven…

Click here to continue reading this post…


Vladimir hosted an online radio program via Blogtalkradio where Jodi’s trial was discussed. Click here to listen to the recording if you missed it.



    • I agree! Most intelligent, objective thing written on this case that I’ve seen.

      I disagree with him about a few points:

      1) I think he minimizes the importance of the grandparents’ stolen gun in terms of circumstantial evidence. That’s a hell of a coincidence and by far the state’s strongest evidence of premeditation. All the other things — the gas cans, the car rental, the hair color — are so easy to see as perfectly innocent, or even evidence of a lack of planning.

      But that gun…..that’s one hell of a coincidence. But here’s the thing: Coincidences are extremely common. I mean, they’re everyday events. You have multiple coincidences happen every day, it’s just that we don’t pay any attention or assign significance to most of them. I saw some headline about how Vinnie Politan (whoever that is?) said coincidences don’t exist. That’s a droolingly stupid statement.

      Now, that doesn’t mean she didn’t steal the gun. It’s just that it’s hard to get around why, if she stole the gun to kill him, she would do so 10 days in advance by staging a burglary to accomplish…..what? Making sure everyone noticed it so that when Travis was killed with the same thing, everyone would make the connection? It doesn’t take a criminal mastermind to conclude that if you’re planning to off your ex-boyfriend….don’t draw police attention to the murder weapon before you do it.

      2) “As far as whether her testimony is believable, she was not untruthful in the sense she was deliberately testifying falsely. She believes what she is saying. While it may not be in fact what objectively happened, I have no doubt that she either always believed what she is saying since day one, or in the 5 years since Mr. Alexander’s death has convinced herself of what she is saying is true”

      This makes no sense. She believed her own BS when she was lying about it? And now she believes the current story too? If she’s lying now, the whole point would be that she’s changing her story to suit the circumstances, so of course she would not believe it now. It would be purposely deceptive, not self-delusional.

      There may be elements of her story that are self-delusion, but this seems like a cheap attempt to get around the fact that we have little means of knowing whether she’s telling the truth, other than subjective impressions of her testimony and the fact that she’s certainly making more sense now than she did with that masked intruder BS. I do think her reasons for lying previously are plausible, even understandable, albeit morally wrong and, as it turned out, something that would come back to haunt her.

      3) “Once the jury comes back with something less than a conviction for murder one, I hope media will aggressively question the Maricopa County Attorneys’ Office why they wasted so much time and money on a wasted prosecution. I hope they will ask MCAO why did they refuse to accept Ms. Arias’ plea to murder two with the hopes of garnering fame and attention?”

      For one thing, I don’t think it’s any sure thing the jury will not convict on first-degree murder. People are convicted on excessive charges every day. Most of them just don’t get this kind of attention. Let’s not be over-confident. It could happen.

      But the state seeking fame and attention? I’m not buying it. They’re getting some fame now, but it will be short-lived. Considering the sheer amount of work involved for a lawyer in going to trial, it simply wouldn’t be worth it. Even if he wins, Juan Martinez isn’t going to go on Dancing With the Stars (sorry for putting that image in your head…) There isn’t enough fame there to make a trial worth it. All that discovery alone??? Fuggedaboutit. We simply live in a culture where people are very afraid of crime and tend to believe that if someone is accused, they are guilty. Almost every defendant faces that, not just Jodi Arias.

      4) “But the main reason, I suspect, is feminism’s misguided campaign to biologically and psychologically equate men and women. In other words, despite all the evidence to the contrary, radical feminist want us to believe that men and women have the exact same motivation to murder.”

      Hey, don’t blame feminism, dude, ok? This is just post-civil rights mainstream thinking: All races can now commit racism and both sexes can commit sexism. Neither of those things are true because racism and sexism are institutional, but it’s feminists who mostly understand that.

      I’m so tired of the men commentating on this case… I watched some news clip with two guys har-dee-har-har’ing about how, “She who brings the K-Y was she who wanted the sex!” *chuckle-chuckle-doesn’t-my-penis-make-me-clever?*

      I was horrified. They as much as said that a woman who gives ANY indication of wanting sexual contact basically cannot be raped. I remember one time when my husband was questioning why I’m so cavalier about being alone in a parking lot after dark or going for a walk whenever I want to. I pointed out to him that the person statistically most likely to assault, rape, or kill me….is him! (Only statistically, mind you. He is a very respectful, non-abusive person.)

      He was floored. It just doesn’t register with men — because they don’t HAVE to think about it — that women are in far, far more danger BEHIND closed doors. Where no one can see them. Where no one can witness what happened. Where she is often with someone she trusts and often someone she loves.

      5) “Instead of Ms. Arias’ motive being that she was jealous, could it be she was afraid he was going to abandon her?”

      Unlikely, if you believe her testimony. I think she’s probably minimizing the pain and jealousy she felt at the time. But there wasn’t much indication, according to her, that Travis was going anywhere. Immediately after their break-up, that might have been a reasonable speculation. But they continued to have frequent contact and there’s no evidence that had waned prior to his death.

      6) “And it is the reason why men are angry at a wife’s sexual infidelity, while women are angry at a husband’s emotional infidelity.”

      Gee, thanks for telling me what makes me angry. I bet, as a woman, I also suck at driving and cry easily at my time of the month. In reality, every person is different as far as their definition of “infidelity” and their response to it. And every person is different in every relationship.

      7) “She and Mr. Alexander did not have any children, so there was no fear that he was going to abandon their child, which is probably the most common circumstance of a female killing her spouse out of fear of abandonment.”

      Yes, indeed, we all know women’s actions are motivated by the desire to spawn and the desire to protect our spawn….God, I’m so tired of men defining this case…. It would be nice if, just once, they would sit back and listen to women’s experiences, rather than telling us what our experiences are.

      • That was a good post Jess, thanks for sharing your thoughts here.

        I may or may not agree with everything what you said, BUT I haven’t seen you telling anyone else what to think, so I appreciate it.

      • WOW! Do you think it is him? I wish it had his birthday or something on it! If the D.A. left this out and it is legit TA would that be grounds for a mistrial? Hiding evidence or a charge similar? What do think Candie? Could JM get in trouble with this?

        • Absolutely same guy. I have a full report PDF with his DOB and all addresses. 21 pages long.
          Battery on peace officer
          Battery on Emergency Personnel
          Failure to produce evidence
          Battery w/serious bodily injury
          Battery on persons.
          Address 1:
          11428 Queensborough Ave, Mesa, AZ 85212

      • Thanks Candie, I have been waiting for someone to find this. This not only speaks to Travis’ violent nature, but speaks to why he had to get a gun from his degenerate friend, instead of having one of his very own to play with the “big boys” at the range. He couldn’t pass the criminal background check to purchase his own gun.
        Wonder if there is a way to trace if the “friend” ,who is trying to find his 15 minutes of fame with the shooting range video, ever had a .25 caliber that is now missing?

      • Wow – that’s really something! It’s hard to know for sure if it’s the same guy, but it seems highly probably.

        I’m assuming the defense team tried to get this into evidence, but the judge may have deemed it inadmissible. I could see the argument being made that the victim isn’t the one on trial, so his record shouldn’t be a factor.

        But I wonder if some domestic violence cases make an exception, and allow a look at past history of criminality. Anyone know how this works?

        • Same guy. NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER

          Name & Aliases:
          First Name: Travis
          Middle Name: V
          Last Name: Alexander
          Known Alias: Travis V Alexander
          Known Alias: Travis Victor Alexander
          Phone Number: (480) 968-4414

      • The report that comes up using this link shows an arrest 13 years ago with charges filed as shoplifting and battery. Reading further into the report shows that part of the probation involves staying away from Stater Bros (a grocery store) and someone named Fred Lopez (probably an employee there that confronted him). I don’t see any of the other charges that you listed.

    • Hey Guys! SJ- or anyone that can answer- I read an article that stated the 18 jurors would be dwindled down to 12 and the alternates dismissed! Is this true?Does the defense get any say in who is dismissed?What if our 3 or 4 jurors who see the truth are dismissed? So discouraged!! Thanks for any info you guys have on this!

      • Sissy I am wondering the same thing, and how are the final 12 chosen? What if one of the final 12 jurors has to be removed and there are no back ups since the other 6 are dismissed? I’m so confused.(nothing new)

  1. Sj,
    Exerpt from TA Blog:
    I remember my mother emptying a revolver on the car my father was driving and my father subsequently taking an axe to my mother’s belongings and destroying them. I remember being on the other side of the front door when my father kicked it down. The police were called that time along with many others, but I knew what had to be said and knew they would leave us to more of the same. I remember the day I came to the conclusion there was a God. I was 6. I screamed as loud as I could all day long for my near by grand mother to get me and take me for the weekend.

    What if he got and kept his Mothers GUN? He calls it a revolver. Here is the link I been telling everyone about. His mothers gun could have been what he had.
    I hope Nurmi sees this!!

    • Can one actually believe this though?

      Perhaps TA embellished his story with untruths to make him look more successful, as in “Look at how I single-handedly rose from a terrible childhood to being the successful motivational speaker that I am”?

      On the other hand, if it is the truth, coming from an abusive past could lead to his becoming an abuser himself.

      • I agree with you my husbands mom and dad had bad fights and he told the srink we saw after he beat me up that he just thought that was what he knew.

      • Yes, I have considered the same things myself. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

        I’m Agnostic so if I believe something it’s for a good reason, and I’m not inclined to believe Travis whatsoever after all the lies he, the media, and his family have told. It would be one thing if he were just a regular mormon/christian man who was struggling with his beliefs. But he consciously sought out, occupied, and abused positions of power to influence people fraudulently, and to pretend he’s something he’s not. His family has also continued his lies, saying that Jodi was an evil witch with sexual powers that led him astray the righteous path (as if!) so I am not inclined to believe them either.

      • Yep that just proves it! Either he was messed up from his childhood or was a sick greedy person who would do anything to get ahead. Either way I believe this dude had issues.

    • It was previously testified to that it was unlikely the gun fired was a revolver. If it was, there was no reason for there to be a discarded shell on the scene.

      • Yep but maybe TA was a novice with guns. He was just starting to get into them I believe. I think he had his mom’s gun and his friend was like let me show some real guns(that will make your penis look way bigger-JK) ex. the video. So maybe with his lack of prior knowledge of firearms he just assumed all little guns were revolvers. Just a guess!

    • SJ…Thanks for that link to the article that Travis Alexander wrote…Now I have a better understanding of Travis Alexander…He has a lot of deep seated emotional issues himself…just reading what Travis wrote in his own words about how he and his siblings suffered both emotional and physical abuse from their drug addicted parents and especially the abuse from their drug addicted mother for all of his young years…and their living conditions of rotted food, lice, and roaches…

      As a grown man it is evident from his writing that he was still hurting from the parental abuse that he suffered as a young child…Travis Alexander is the one who needed counseling along with all of his siblings…they should all be in long term counseling from that type of abuse they endured as young children…

      With a past like his…no wonder Travis Alexander physically and emotionally abused Jodi Arias…no wonder Jodi has a lot of confusion in her relationship with Travis…at times he was lost to himself…read his writings and see for yourself…he writes like a pendulum that sways back and forth…he needed so much balance in his own life and had a hard time finding it…

      I can relate with Jodi because my ex was physically and emotionally abusive to me also… I found out a few years into our marriage that his own father had been abusive to him when he was a child…this family kept that a “secret” and no one talked about it…after our divorce I went to counseling…the ex should have gone to counseling too…but he never did…those kind of guys never believe that they do anything wrong…

      I believe that the jurors would have seen a different side of Travis Alexander had they heard about the abuse he suffered as a child…there is that tendency for abused children to grow up with abusive tendencies themselves and direct it toward their loved ones…and with proper psychological counseling over a long period of time it can help the grown adult adjust better in relationships at the work place, dating, marriage, and etc…

        • I agree, when I posted the above link (to his blog) about the gun, then after reading his Blog, I was just sick over his childhood, how awful, I am glad the grandma came!

          • The more I sit back and look at everything that we have heard through testimony and coupling it with reading Travis own words describing the emotional and physical abuse he endured as a child…and even he said that it was worse than what he had posted…I am wondering if he was sexually abused as a child too…this might explain his sexual obsession with wanting Jodi to act like a 12 year old girl…and his preferring anal sex to vaginal sex….and all of his other kinky sex orientation…and in his own words during the sex tape he says to Jodi that he wants to make a porn movie…Travis Alexander really needed psychological counseling…

            • I agree! Most children that grow up in a home like that have some kind of psychological scarring. IMO I think he was so embarrassed of his childhood he wanted to prove that he was not a piece of trash. He worked hard at keeping his true self from the public. Jodi got to see the results of all the abuse to lil boy Travis. Out in public he was plastic and fake but behind closed doors I think Jodi was punished for what he had endured! Just my thoughts!

            • I totally agree, Truthseeker. I first thought that the pedo thing was a load of crap and a strategic mistake to bring the issue into the mix, blurring an already convoluted narrative. Then, in response to one of the juror’s questions, I think it was, re why would she sleep with him after she discovered the pedo thing, Jodi said that when Travis had a chance to explain something that had happened to him in the past, she had a great deal of sympathy for him instead of simply being angry or repelled or whatever. My mental alrm sounded, and it really started making sense to me- the whole case; not just the pedo thing…including her tenacity in trying to keep silent, protect Travis’s reputation, inventing and changing her crazy stories, etc. At the next break JVM sensed the same thing I did, although suggested that Jodi brought it up sheerly out of self interest. I think that she is remarkably clever, but I don’t think that anybody could be quite THAT subtle. Just my 2c.

      • I concur with everything you wrote. I believe from seeing TA write how he was 30, not married, and childless compared to his friends, that he was dealing with inner issues of fear of becoming his parents. Jodi and the real things he “desired” were trash in his mind and he worked so hard to put up this front that he had overcome adversity without any emotional problems at all. He was like look at me,I went through this and I am still perfect so you can too. It was all an act unfortunately. While he presented himself wholesome and moral, behind closed doors Jodi felt the wrath of a man with pent up anger and rage for 30 years. He performed all of his sadistic acts on her and played with her mind. She wasn’t good enough for his public image but she was good as a human punching bag and he could say things to her he would never say in front of others. I am sure Jodi knows some of the language his mother often used.

        • Sissy…after reading what you posted….I remembered another thing that Jodi said over and over in her testimony…she kept referring to Travis having to “de-stress” himself with the anal sex or sex…Perhaps the “de-stressing” was still part of that pent up anger from his childhood abuse…
          Travis should have gotten some psychological counseling…it could’ve helped Travis learn to “de-stress” in a more healthier way…

          Why didn’t someone bring up Travis writings in court…it sure would have helped the jurors understand why Travis lived one way in the public image and performed in a highly sexual deviate animalistic type behavior toward Jodi behind those doors…

          One might argue….why did Jodi allow him to keep doing this “de-stressing” to her over and over if she knew it was wrong?…some of sexual things they did together in a loving way she probably enjoyed…while the other part of the sex acts she testified was not enjoyable…

          But one fact remains is that she truly loved Travis Alexander and that love blinded her to a whole lot of things about Travis that was wrong on either a conscious level of her thinking or on an unconscious level of her thinking…the mind is a powerful tool in the human body…

  2. Question — Has Jodi been asked or testified where she got the KNIFE? I don’t keep a knife in my bedroom or bathroom. Wonder how he had it handy for the stabbing? I have only heard how she got the gun, not the knife, thanks!

    • The knife, according to Jodi, was in the bathroom because Travis had used it earlier. He used it to cut the rope that he tied Jodi to the bed with during sex.

    • she got the knife when travis had tied her up for sex and they cut a rope because it was too long, the knife was left by the bed or bathroom the pictures in camera show the be scene and pictures of the sex, and explicit pictures of her behind.

    • Jodi testified that Travis cut the sex-rope and then left the knife out, either in the bathroom or near the bed.

      This was the only thing she seemed a bit foggy about long before the altercation even started. Why she didn’t just say he’d left the knife in the bathroom is a mystery to me. I’m sure there’s a reason she’s (intentionally?) fuzzy about this.

      • blocking things out isnt necessarily intentional …the subconscious will do that to protect the mind untill it is mature enough to sort things out logically (if ever) …”just seeing it from my own PERSONAL perspective” ….

  3. Found this on one of the hater sites:

    Question- What are the subpoena rules that Travis’ friend D.H. is under right now per the defense? Is posting and commenting on Jodi Arias stuff on FB a problem? He’s making me nervous! We’ve told him to STOP, but he won’t. He just posted a pic and commented on something today… I’d post the picture of it on here, but I can’t figure out how to post from my desktop.
    I’m getting worried that this might cause a mistrial if he keeps this up. Hell, he might have already given them enough to declare one! Am I freaking out for no reason? UGH!!!!!!

    Dave Hall really thinks that the rules don’t apply to him, huh? Hope Nurmi and Willmott are following up on this. Arrogant tool.

    • He is something, in addition to Chris hughes and all the rest of the Liar Gang.

      I think there should be a mistrial based on the media too. I don’t see any possible way for jodi to get a fair trial where they are located now…even if there are a few jurors who were not biased prior to the trial, depending on their self confidence level they may or may not be able to stand up to bullying by other jurors. If the haters are bullying in real life, I can see a hater of lying to become a juror. That is how much faith I put in people…

      While i have learned from watching, I’m just not sure these things, death penalty cases, should be tried in the court of public opinion. There are literally people crawling out of the sewers to get their media time and attempt to cast jodi in a negative light.

      • Hi BeeCee/Kira,
        Overall, it’s a shambles… and Judge Pickles isn’t helping with her Kermit-bias. Had Belvin Perry been the judge, the jurors would have been sequestered, they would have started on time, there would have been way less state BS, and the trial would have been over weeks ago.
        Team Jodi

      • BeeCee, I agree with you and others about how Jodi’s trial is being mishandled. The media should never have been allowed to cover this trial the way they are doing. Even at work, I’m surprised at how many people say Jodi is guilty, based solely on what they are hearing or reading, simply from listening to their daily news stations, reading articles, etc. on the Internet, or watching shows like Dr. Drew or Nancy Grace. I also still find it hard to believe that not one single juror has ever noticed the rolling eyes that Travis’ sister, the one who is a police officer, often makes at times, which is non-compliance, actually, with the judge’s instructions at the start of the trail, or that not even one juror ever comes home and has caught the “news,” or used their computer and even accidently been exposed to the situation outside the courtroom, including the many and repeated opinions and ideas of members of Travis church and pre-paid legal business partners who are a part of the church community as well and defend Travis. I am not saying that the jurors do not take their work seriously, but even at the very least, it is hard to believe that not one person in the jury has talked to a single family member or friend who hasn’t made some kind of reference to what they are seeing and reading about. The cumulative inflence of the media bias and conclusions of guilt and premediatation can significantly affect people on a subjective level much more than we realize, and I’m afraid that not only is Jodi being punished much more than usual suspects who are accused of heinous murder by having to answer the highest number of questions-more than 200 questions and still coming-from the jury, or is she being exposed to a prosecutor, JM, who appears to be an angy and aggressive bully who utilizes a confusing, rapid-fire strategy approach to questioning, or is she being virtually crucified in the media and by a bandwagon of the victim’s friends who are getting national attention, but it appears she may increasingly be replacing Casey Anthony as the most hated woman in America, thanks to how the state of Arizona is allowing this trial to spin ourt of control and become a media circus DURING what was supposed to be a citizen’s right to a fair trial.

        • The judicial system can only limit press access by placing material under seal. The hearing on 2/20 was an in chambers hearing and all materials for that day were placed under seal.

          Under the First Amendment, journalists and the public have right to know what is happening during trials.

          The circus is caused by the public that demands news channels cover trials like this in such a manner. As long as HLN, CNN, FOX, etc keep getting ratings boosts from trials, they will continue to host such circuses.

          Mattie, you raise an interesting point about jurors and accidental exposure to info. IMO, this is why we have large juries of 12 rather than 6. Each juror can work as a check and balance for other jurors. The jurors will also have access to all of the evidence, so they will know what was and what wasn’t presented in court.

      • Exactly! What if it is a mistrial or something of the like and the decide to retry her? How would they find anybody that hasn’t heard of the case? How do they know if the possible juror is telling the truth when they say they haven’t heard of Jodi? Back in the day you never heard of these kinds of cases because we didn’t have HLN! It had to be Dahmer bad for the press to even get wind of it. But now people like Nancy Grace are paid to go on tv and convict inncocent people before proven guilty! This country needs and enema!

    • I think he was told to stay off all media, and FB is considered social media. The problem with Dave Hall and his pack of rabid hyenas is they are saying outrageous things and hoping some how to influence the trial. That kook that says she was intutitive, I don’t think she ever met JA. JA was in california when the kook claims to have dinner with her. The claims seem to get more outrageous and crazier by the day.
      I also lurk on other forums, wouldn’t think of trying to communicate with some of them, but read on WS, another pack of rabid hyenas, that JM(shorty) can prove the purchase was for 3rd gas can because that gas station only sells gas between 1am and 6am? Also that shorty watches HLN looking for new evidence and he has a lot of stuff to impeach JA’s testimony. WTF- this is the most unfair trial I have ever watched.

      • After being kicked out of the court room, and advised not to watch the trial or get involved in any social media, DH promptly posted the news on his FB page. Check out the Feb 25th post with the pic taken from outside courtroom 5c.

        Team Jodi

          • SJ,
            Check this out, he shared this 3/6/2014 also

            People Who Shared This

            Dave Hall shared Huy T. Duong’s photo.

            My buddy Huy sent this to me. Some Catholic Dating site is using Jodi’s picture for their ad. Do you really want to marry a woman who thinks like her? If you do, buy lots of life insurance and put me as the beneficiary.

            18 hours ago · Like · 1..

            Dave Hall She wants to find a soul mate in this life so she can already be hooked up in the next life.

            17 hours ago · Like..

            • Must you be a face book user to see these pages or have they been taken down? When I try to look at the page it is saying the page is no available.

              I hope you guys got screen shots of the info if he’s now removed them. Can you send them to Jodi’s attorney to make sure he is aware of this crap that is going on?

              Also, is it possible to send Jodi a card? If so, does anyone have a mailing address? I would like to send her a note to let her know that not everyone in the universe has ganged up on her.

            • Smooth Move Dave Hall! Must have had a snoop in here because the pages are now suddenly unavailable and I was just on them minutes ago, reading all of their silly babbling about the trial, even though Dave was ordered to shut up!
              Dog, didn’t you have a screen capture of the pages?

        • Is he a witness in this trial? How objective a witness can he be when he is posting a PayPal link, obviously to collect funds for the Alexander family. “A small donation that you will never miss. But it makes such a difference when many people do it. Be one of the many.” Under Comments he (Dave Hall) writes: “Thank you so much for your generosity! The family is overwhelmed by the kindness of so many people who did and even did not know Travis.”

          In the comments section under another post about taking Boy Scouts camping, his friend Garry Scarff writes
          “Regardless of your being away on the scouting trip, I expect Jodi’s slimy attorney, Nurmi, to raise cain about your appearance on the show.. after you were booted from the courtroom & told by the judge to not read or watch about the trial.. your interviewing with Dateline before Monday won’t have any relevance with Nurmi”.

          • Witnesses aren’t expected to be objective. Jurors are expected to be objective.

            Witnesses typically know the people in the case. They cannot be objective. Which is why both sides examine witnesses.

        • Jesus…. The first thing I read on his page under Info > About is this ” For the last 11 years I been a stay at home dad.” How about “I’ve been” or “I have been”, Dave. I have zero tolerance for stupidity from people who act like they’re superior to others.

          • Oh I see… now it makes sense.
            Dave Hall

            I Graduated again! I may not have a High School Diploma, or a College Diploma but I now have 5 Defensive Driving Diplomas. That has got to be the equivalent of a Doctorate Degree for sure. Graduation gifts are now being accepted:) What will you be giving me for this amazing accomplishment in my life?


            • It took Chris Hughes six years to finish high school. Pretty easy to see that PPL isn’t exactly attracting the brightest stars in the sky.

            • Well I guess from this we can presume he is too stupid to drive as well…. Poor guy in his too short, skin tight khakis looking like a fool on all of these talk shows! He figures if he can get 100,000 people to send a dollar he is $100,000.00 richer! Great friend!

          • “I have zero tolerance for stupidity from people who act like they’re superior to others.”

            Me too, Dog! When someone smug and self-satisifed with this own mistaken superiority takes up a crayola crayon in his fist and begins to “write” with it, I want to grab a red pen, like a teacher would, and put a great big “D” on his broken ramblings. I don’t do this–but, boy, the temptation is strong!

          • 5 defensive driving diplomas-aren’t these the classes ordered by the court when you have too many tickets? Could be why he is a stay at home Dad. Just saying

        • Even his friends are telling him to take down the post for fear it will jeopordize the case. I still think this degerate is the one that gave TA the gun.

        • Dave..dave..dave..tisk tisk. So when checking out the face book page and seeing all the talk about the trial, even though he was ORDERED not to watch the trial or discuss the trial, i thought i would send him a friendly message…

          Dave, now, as travis’s friend, you are trying to capitalize on his death? i’m not talking about the fund for the family. when you try to send him a message he is charging $1 to message him if you are not on his friends list! Wow. Wow..wowser..

      • If Martinez needs to watch HLN for information, then he’s REALLY a bad prosecutor. Although the Websleuth harpies like to think that they have all the answers about everything.

        • i think that person meant that they dont sell any snacks, drinks, cigarettes, etc, only gas, between those hours, so that the third purchase for $19+ had to be for gas and gas only.. if that makes sense?

          • That may be true. In my area, you can only pump gas and pay with a debit or credit card late at night. The store part is closed and no cashier is on duty, you pay at the pump with your card.

      • Dave probably couldnt hear the judge because Travis’ magic suits that he insists on wearing… blocked that part of the admonishion.

        ! Dave is a creep, with his little piggy eyes and love of wearing dead people clothing.

      • Where did u get this info from? If true jodi is in bad bad shape. I mean the part where that gas station only sells gas at those times.

      • Exactly! I can’t believe they allow potential witness’ to watch the trial and report back to Juan that Jodi is lying! The prosecution should be held like the jury! No outside contact! So what are we gonna do about it?

      • I also read that — that the Utah gas station goes gas-purchases-only in the wee hours. But my question is, Was this their policy back in 2008?

        And yes, both legal teams have people watching HLN for angles to use.

        — Nurmi saw the video of TA shooting the automatic on JVM’s show. About two days later, he was telling the judge he wanted permission to use it (via TA’s friend who owned the video) in court.

        — Another day, NG aired a montage of pictures of Jodi where her finger looked normal. The next thing we knew, Martinez had one of those pics up on the screen, grilling Jodi about her finger.

        They’re probably reading this site as we speak. 🙂

      • the couple on dr drew saying that travis told them he came home to find “jodi hideing in his closet several times” was news to me….seems like something like that would have come out before now …just saying..

    • Wasn’t he admonished by the judge to not talk about this case to anyone.
      I don’t remember what day that was in court but I think he had to leave and was told by the judge NOT to talk to ANYONE.
      What happens when the judge DOES admonish them and they do it anyway?

        • Not sure, JC
          But If I remember right he was not to even watch the rest of the trial.
          If they’re admonished not to talk to anyone, like the Hughes aren’t why not everywhere, the TV is
          Am I making sense? : )

          • The Hughes were not admonished to not talk to anyone. They were admonished to not watch the trial live or by video.

            Folks are confusing the admonishments for jurors with the admonishments for certain witnesses.

    • I was curious, so I just looked up the video of the court hearing in which Dave Hall’s tv interview regarding TA’s gun ownership was discussed. I didn’t see the FB page that has been discussed, so I can’t speak to that.

      Hall’s tv interview aired on Thur, Feb 21. On Tues, Feb 26 (trial day 22), Nurmi brought up the interview. Hall was in court that day. He was asked to leave the courtroom once JM said he wanted to request that Hall be available as a rebuttal witness.

      The Judge said this:

      “Mr. Hall, in light of the State’s indication that you will be called as a witness during the rebuttal case, I’m going to ask that you leave the courtroom. In addition, I’m going to ask that you not watch anything on the media, uh, television, read anything about the case between now and when you are called as a witness.”

      This is too vague for Facebook to be considered “media”. I do understand that Facebook is referred to as “social media”. However, the Judge wasn’t specific enough. And her response was based on Nurmi’s comments about Hall having watched the trial before his interview.

      This isn’t a big deal. (Let me finish!) The Judge used the term “media” as in reporting by news sources. Facebook is media as in “a form of communication”. And Hall hasn’t been a witness yet.

      Unless Hall has been watching the trial live, watching video of the trial, watching tv news coverage of the trial or reading news articles about the trial, he is technically in compliance with what the Judge instructed him to do. He was not told that he couldn’t discuss the trial with friends or family or that he couldn’t use social media. Our Smartphones are social media. The internet is social media. The Judge was too vague for FB to be an issue.

      That said, Nurmi may be able to get Hall tossed as a potential witness because Hall was on the TA facebook page. Unless Hall received additional instructions that he couldn’t help the family, fundraising won’t be a problem. The Judge is well aware that Hall is a friend of the Alexander family; he was sitting with the family in court that day.

      No, this won’t lead to mistrial. Hall might get tossed as a court witness, but it is possible that JM could enter the video of Hall’s interview on HLN instead (not likely though).

      Trial video: Issue covered during the first 2 mins. Judge’s admonition is at approx 1:50-2:05.

  4. SJ that was a really good article you posted. What has the state proven? Jodi admitted to the murder. I think she’s told her story how she knows it and interpreted it. The defense IMHO has proven Travis was a sexual deviant and manipulative. How this plays in the jurors minds I don’t know. They haven’t proven the pedophile stuff for sure but just Jodi’s word. But I do sense honesty from her so maybe some jurors believe her. We will see….

    • Hi FLNANG,
      Yes, It was a great article by Vladimir Gagic.
      It proves the state have proven nothing, nor will they.
      Team Jodi

    • She did NOT admit to murder… she admitted to KILLING travis. there is a huge difference between killing and murder. ask anyone in the military.

      • Big difference that is why I get so upset with the Haters when they say she is a Cold Blooded murderer or a Serial Killer they have no idea what they are even saying it seems they just say it.

        • Rhonda there are key phrases one has to use to join the Travis-town cult.
          She killed him 3 times over.
          She’s a sociopath.
          She’s narcissistic.
          She’s a stalker.
          you get my drift?

          It might be funny if Jodi’s life wasn’t on the line.
          They parrot each other and don’t bother to fact check anything.

  5. I have no idea why the jury isn’t sequestered, big mistake, I don’t believe for a minute that some of the jurors aren’t on the computer or TV following and getting ideas. May sound silly, but one of my main concerns has been about the jury and being afraid to not find her guilty. After following Casey’s trial, the foaming at the mouth angry mob, they are still not letting the verdict be. They despise her, they despise the jury, and have hatred that for me is unexplainable. If I were on the jury, I would be afraid, I know how some of those sites are, the mob mentality is frightening, those hags are out for blood. I can’t even make comments on my FB, I don’t want any trouble from a couple of women I happen to have talked to years ago.

    • I suspect the main reason the jury wasn’t sequestered is because it’s Maricopa County, and they seem to be incredibly cheap! Jury sequestration is expensive.

      But, there are advantages and disadvantages to sequestration. Jurors often become angry and resentful with one side or the other because they’re forced to be away from their families for so long. In this case, I think they would have been resentful of Jodi/Nurmi for all the days she was on the stand.

      Also, when juries are sequestered, attorneys feel the necessity of keeping testimony as brief as possible In a case where you’re pleading for a beautiful young woman’s life, it’s thought to be helpful to have her on the stand as long as possible so that the jury can get to know her. The rationale behind that is that the jury is less likely to put someone to death who they have developed a bond with during testimony/trial. Additionally, juries often rush deliberations sinced they are, by that time, very anxious to return home to their lives.

      Another important thought against sequestration is that it limits the available jury pool. There are very few potential jurors who *can* agree to be sequestered for a long period of time. People with family concerns or important jobs can rarely agree to that kind of availability. Then again, the same can be said for most jurors in a lengthy trial of this nature.

      In this day and age when it’s hard to escape the media, and with such a high profile case, I’m as surprised as you that sequestration wasn’t ordered. Does anyone know if Nurmi asked for it?

        • Was there a hearing? Let me guess, Kermit Shorty didn’t want them sequestered? And that lovely judge decided no?

      • I couldn’t find anywhere that either side asked to sequester the jury. Perhaps the judge didn’t find the media attention too overbearing. Most judges like to rarely use sequestration because of cost and a lot of judges have this philosophy that we should trust jurors not to partake in bias. Should this jury have been sequestered? I’m not sure, the media only bothered them once, but we can never be sure if they are really following instructions. The scary thing is I’ve actually heard people say that sequestration is bad because it keeps the jurors away from everyone else. That’s the point!!! I don’t think these types of people realize the impact that a biased media can have on people.
        One of the most cited cases is Casey Anthony, only if the jury had ignored the jury instructions, the evidence, the reasonable doubt, and listened to the media! Outrageous. People think that when jurors go back into the deliberation room that their want to go home makes them acquit people. You know where you get ideas like that Nancy Grace! The facts are people are acquitted a majority of the time because the state didn’t meet their burden, on the other hand people can be convicted on very flimsy evidence. Besides, wanting to go home can be a jury’s motivation to convict an innocent person, but no one cares about that!
        If people would shut out Nancy Grace and listen to people actually involved, like the jury members, they said in interviews that they looked for something to convict her. You know why? They were a capital case jury, inherently pro-prosecution (just like the people who watch the “news”). They allowed the prosecution to run the media’s campaign on them emotionally during the trial. They tried to help the prosecution almost as much as the judge did. It wasn’t dominate voices that wanted to go home drowning out weak people who also wanted to go home. They had an investment in getting the case right, a person’s life was in the balance. This jury actually seemed to want to get it right despite their inclination to lean toward the prosecution emotionally. In the end, they followed the law and used reason. If you actually open your mind up, the questions in that case are too great to ignore. I wish more juries were like this jury, making the right decision even when it is hard.
        People need to pay attention to reality, you should follow the law and common sense not HLN. My hope for the Jodi Arias case is that the jury will in the very least not give her the death penalty. If you believe in the death penalty, there is no way you can say Jodi Arias ranks with worst of the worst.

        • Great post ! It gives us a lot of insight. I for one do think a jury should be kept from “the outside world” there is just too much of this case on the news, internet, ect. I too think that the jury is not rushing through the case to just get it over with. The number of questions I feel shows they are interested in Jodi’s explanation. I feel that they are attempting to get as much info as possible so as not to have to impose the death penalty. Personally I don’t think I could condemn someone to death in their position. I couldn’t do it regardless but based on the facts that JM has put out there I definately feel she deserves a lesser charge!

      • IMO jury should have been sequestered and the trial moved to another county.
        Even though I believe unbiased jury could have been selected in the Mesa area, chances are that they were flooded with so called info about the case, and that there are many Mormon communities in the area that would be biased in favor of the victim against the female new convert, even if they don’t know the church or people of these guys who come out of the woodworks.

        • Great! Also, does anyone know, are Mormons more likely to agree with the death penalty than others? I know several evangelical Christians are like that. But I don’t know if the Book of Mormon has any scriptures to do with “eye for an eye” kind of stuff.

          • The sad thing is to be a juror on a DP case you have to agree that you could apply the DP if the defendant is found guilty. So essentially, you start out with a jury that will, or say they will, vote for the DP.

  6. LOL Someone on facebook just asked me if I am Patty from Jodi Is Innocent???? Omgosh I need to change my name on here, I have a child. But, I said yes. I am against DP, I dont get bashed here. I also like a Pro TA facebook page but the owner is fair and posts great pics and stuff and doesnt allow bashing. Why be a hater?

    • I am right there with you and Leah. This is insane. You can’t even mutter a peep that you think Jodi may be innocent without being pounced on! The thing that gets me the most is these talking heads on HLN or NG or JVM…. some of these people I’m sure have daughters. We all heard the phone conversation where he wanted to tie her to a tree and all the other degrading things he said to her. How would they feel if some guy said that to their daughter? Would they be so quick to defend him also? This is all too crazy.

    • Thats frightening. I have been asked to “friend” people over and over. And in another life I would have done it. But I only have about 55 friends so…there is a reason for that. I keep it real as far as my facebook account. I am thinking I need a fake one to talk to people about any future trials though, I have seen posts of scary hate sent to people privately from being on the pro jodi FB pages… and its very horrible.

      • I was thinking to do this exact same thing. I want to go to a fairer site, but as I have many people on my FB page that knew Travis, and were in that ward with me, I would be crucified if I did, plus the church aspect… Ya I can’t without losing allot on this one

          • Thank you, sometimes it’s easy, other times I have to write, rewrite and then rewrite my statements again. I cannot defame her and praise him just as I can’t defame him and side with her. It is a 2 way street. Both failed, both lied and both are suffering/have suffered.

            • Bella, I also wish to thank you for your bravery and honesty. It was your posts that gave me the courage to express my opinion here.

              I ran across WS first and grew weary of the over the top witch hunt there and on HLN. I found this site which has been what I consider “fair” and what I would hope to see more of out there in the world.

              You summed it up the best: Both failed. Both lied. Both have and will suffer.

              I shall add: Neither deserved this tragic ending due to their lying and human failings.

              You are a bright young lady with a beautiful and intelligent head on her shoulders. I wish you all the best! <3

            • Bella once again I wanted to say thank you for sharing your story with us. I understand that it must be very hard for you to talk about your friend and at the same time feel bad for Jodi. I think that you are a wonderful person. I’m a christian woman and I feel the same way as you sometimes. I don’t like to judge anyone and at the same time have mercy for those who fail, and instead of stepping on them, help them get up and move on. I always ask my self this question: What will Jesus Do? I will keep you in my prayers as well as Jodi and TA’s family.

              May God bless you, and your family always.


        • Hi Bella-
          I again applaud your courage. I actually have been thinking of you and concerned a bit for your safety. After watching video of Travis’ friend’s testimony, viewing his other friends FB pages, as well as seeing the growing depravity of the anti Jodi mob, I am concerned that, as one of the few friends of Travis who has the character to look at this objectively, you may become a target of this crazed behavior. Please be careful and be safe.

  7. Hi Guys,
    I was surprised that the computer forensics DID NOT FIND ANY PORNOGRAPHIC MATERIAL on TA computer. This is near impossible!!
    I am a guy and and can speak on behalf of the rest of the guys in the entire world with access to a computer and internet, there is no way in hell non of us have looked up porn on the internet. Pornography in the US is not blocked or censured and for a sexually active guy like TA not to look at porn on the internet is almost laughable!
    I have a gut feeling that his roommates have done a major cleanup of the crime scene before they reported it, aka cleared the internet history and removed pornographic materials. This reminds me of an episode of the “Man Show” ( a comedy show back a decade ago) where they offer services for recently deceased guys to clean up their apartment from all pornographic materials and replace it with bibles and “KOSHER” items.
    They mentioned that he was using proxy internet access. Why? We know that in the US porn sites are unblocked and protected by freedom of speech. Only child pornography sites are blocked and can be tracked back to whoever access it, thus using a proxy serve is one way of hiding ones’s tracks.

    One more thought I like to leave you with: We have a saying in scientific research that states “Absence of proof is never a proof of absence” .

    NEVER finding porn sites on his computer is tooooooo good to be true. Too much staged! Let me give you an analogy: If you are at a used car dealer and see a car that is obviously dented and run down, but the milage says it has only ran for a couple or 0 miles! Will you think this car is brand new or will you think someone rigged the dashboard to make it look new?

    • There was a computer guy that was testiying, but it was like he was there, then he wasn’t. I haven’t been able to find the rest of his testimony. Can some one fill me in on this. It was like all of a sudden he disappeared as soon as he was going to show penis pics?

    • EXCELLENT point Roak! I have done innocent searches and because of the wording, it brought up porn sites. I find it hard to believe there was no porn on his pc. After all he loved taking nude photos and movies of himself and Jodi. I agree…someone rigged the dashboard.

      • I am no innocent guy :-). I admit I have looked up porn on the internet and deleted it later so my fiance does not find out ;). Then I found out that my fiance looked up some soft core porn as well LOL

        Sexual curiosity is natural and part of us as humans. What is unnatural though is to look up too much porn or become obsessed with it and to look up child porn.


        • I’m not innocent either. Human nature to have that curiosity. I was just pointing out that it’s easy to even accidentally look up porn just because of the wording of a search. Obviously Travis never even accidentally looked it up. LOL More like his buddies tweeked the dashboard.

            • I don’t even like porn and will admit have taken a peek at some of whats out there out of curiosity … and I’m not male and I’m old!

              • Hahaaa lol… yup. I think WE all have. But there’s only one group of people in the word that dont, (Mormons)???

                • Yeah…obviously they make their own porn behind closed doors….or while their girlfriend is tied to a tree in the woods. But they never look it up online.

                • all guilty here of having looked at porn LOL!!By the way,LC and Skywriter I love both your comments…

              • I have too honestly but the few times i have i ended up at some really gross sites. Very over the top shit I wish I could unsee LOL

        • Personally, I prefer to go with actual evidence. This case is crazy enough without assuming that because TA was male and liked kink he must have liked porn.

          Too far down the rabbit hole.

        • If I remember correctly, TA accessed sites unknown through a company that gives you access through their IP and then you can anonymously go to any site.

    • Yeah,
      I dont want to even admit this, but what you say is exact and true. I have even caught my kids (teens) checking out some mild stuff..> there is NO WAY someone as sex minded as Travis… didnt spend alot of time alone because he really had no one to hide his internet usage from at all.

      Thats why I feel there was another computer… its too clean.

      Anything that squeeky is calling out for attention.

    • Thank you for bringing some sanity to the Pornography issue! Pedophiles are sneaky! That is how they are able to abuse children and get away with it. I know first hand, as I have worked with Pedophiles in a professional capacity, and could recount horrific accounts, which involved child porn that had no computer involved. Pedophiles come in all shapes, sizes and of all religous backgrounds. Many use their standing in the church to become involved in activities that will give them access to children.

      • When did this computer virus “conveniently” appear on his computer?
        By the way, when someone uses a proxy to hide their internet activity it will register on the hard drive as scrambled information! They are notoriously difficult to track, hence that’s why many terrorists use them

    • They can delete the internet history and any files, but those things can always be found again…. unless the hard drive is destroyed. Maybe thinking about Jodi was enough for him!

      • Allow me to be a bit explicit here and I truly apologize for what I am about to mention;
        The sexual terms TA used (facial, creme pi,…..) are typical porn search terms!! The vernacular of porn

        • Gosh I never thought about it before but yep his language is strait out of a big bush 80’s porn! Yes I have looked too for research on being amazing! hehe

    • I use a proxy server, a European based one, with multiple VPN’s for my business. Some of these companies keep your information of sites visited. Some companies dump the info every 24 hours or weekly, monthly, yearly. They are all very different in the mode of operation. I would be very curious as to which company he used and whether it was one he paid for or one of the companies that offer free service.
      Anyone here know that information?

    • Travis own words on the sex tape…he is telling Jodi that he wants to make a porn movie…

      Sounds like he has some type knowledge of porn to want to be making a porn movie!!!!

      Maybe he had two computers…a laptop and a desktop???…I have two computers…

  8. I have to comment on the “friends” of TA who keep crawling from under rocks to praise him and put Jodi down. The last I saw was a video of TA and JA at a gathering. TA is going on and on about a near death experience he had as JA is laying her head in his lap. She then sits up and rubs her eyes. BOMBSHELL TONIGHT (some people scream) look at how uninterested JA is as TA goes on and on about some horrific episode he encountered in his life.
    Bombshell my butt…..I wonder how many times JA has heard him tell that story..and other’s about how great he is. Also, most likely it’s late…she’s obviously tired…but TA completely overlooks that or cares because he’s loving being the center of attention. If anything, that video shows how he put his own wants first and she was just supposed to follow along like a lap dog.

    • Personally, I think that the behavior looked odd. Everyone was sitting upright.

      Also, if you will remember, Jodi testified by saying that they did not show affection, publicly, or in front of his friends. So, if the people were not accustomed to seeing them show affection publicly, then what would they have thought if all of the sudden Jodi has her head, on his lap, in front of all of those people??

      Actually, Travis looked comfortable with it. In other words, he could have jokingly said, “Hey Jodi, are you passing out on us, or what?” But, he didn’t. He carried on, business as usual. So, I wonder how much his friends were use to seeing. Also, if Travis felt like his friends disapproved of Jodi, then why would he let her sit like this, in front of all of those people?

      I wonder whether the picture we have seen painted, is the real picture.

      • What does it matter if everyone else was sitting upright? Maybe they weren’t exhausted. I’ve had to lie down in front of friends/family sometimes when I was at the point of exhaustion; thankfully no one judged me for it.

        • OMG! Maybe this was filmed when they were dating seeing how all of his friends thought they had broke up! Surely this is not a couple of months before his death. If they were like this together obviously they were “together”! And Lord forbid she get tired! Why is she not running around serving drinks at 2 am and telling Travis,”You are amazing baby! You got their attention now! Keep going, Great story! PUH-LEEZ!

      • That particular video was taken while they WERE a couple.

        Also, He didnt mind her being there, and it showed.

        As I have stated before, I have sat up near the point of passing out because I was told it was rude for me to leave a group- being young and stupid I did it.

        Of course now I would leave without a care in the world.
        Jodi was NOT at that point in her life.

      • Also, I am certian all other people in the picture were MEN listening to his stupid near death experience story.

        So…. Men do not lay on each other. Women do.

        • Also, guys lets not forget that TA had TWO groups of friends. How much does anyone want to bet that this is the group that knew about Jodi??! So that BS accusation that people are saying that Jodi was lying about the affection TA gave her is crap!!! This group could very much be the group that knew about her, DUH!!!

          • Yes LC and I also keep in mind that after they broke up, they had a secret relationship together that involved Travis calling Jodi a stalker. Of course Travis didn’t want PDA at that time. This video could have been made before the break up, I have no idea when it was actually filmed. It can be posted any time – before or after break up.

            • Someone posted a link to photobucket account (made by the same guy who posted the chicken dance video, bboy something or other)yesterday which contained pictures from that same event .. There was a pretty large group there and it looks as though Travis was wearing pajama pants and sandals. I’m willing to bet it was later in the evening, no one looks uncomfortable with he and Jodi, there was also someone else in the couch.

              • That is Chris Hughes on the couch. Jacob Mefford and Hollie Guptill- Mefford are standing by the chair. They are the couple who were on Dr. Drew with the video of this night. So much for them all being “creeped out” by Jodi and wanting nothing to do with her.

            • Moreover,it’s evident that Jodi is exhausted in that video.She probably must have driven miles and miles(hello?)to get to Travis and eventually to that event!Why cant people see what’s in front of their eyes and immediately start jumping at conclusions?That couple that provided the video to the Media was nothing short of The Stepford couples to me.I mean really really robotic and creepy but obviously full of it!THEY offered an interpretation to the video and that was the one accepted by the majority,Jodi was being rude and not considerate of TA’ a story and the rest of the group.Want me to tell you sth?????I first read a couple of the comments here(on another page when the video was first mentioned a few days ago)and decided that since it was one of his friends’ video i would mute it and wastch it without any Dr Drew screwing my mind.I also asked my sister (who wants nothing to do with the ase,doesnt even know basic stuff)to come watch it with me and tell me what she makes out of it.We both saw a man making exaggerated movements to keep being the center of attention and a tired woman being half asleep.If anything,it was an endearing video to watch,nothing there honestly.I caught myself thinking”oh look how normal and peaceful they look with each other,i wish things had always been like that”
              So once again the haters made a big deal over sth insignificant.

    • Makes one wonder just how much money these networks are paying these so called friends for their one night of fame???


      • probably a lot.or at least enough to explain why they would go to the extend of airing videos like the ones mentioned above,as if they were sth rare and pro pros!
        And ti think that when the jurirs asked Jodi if she got paid for the tv interviews she said no,although one of the inmates had told her to ask for money because she had gotten 50 dollars for her interview.(the other inmate).I mean 50 dollars….I am by no means implying that inmates should get paid for interviews,no.It’s just sad thinking of all the money the Media is making out of Jodi and she gets nothing,even being criticised for selling her drawings,just to have sth extra to eat in there.

      • Exactly and it stands to reason that they are not paying for these accommodations at all. They are middle class with kids. Who has the cash to jump on a flight, BE picked up by a limo, and stay at a resort just to give a 5 min. free interview? RIGHT!!!

    • she shouldnt have to ingratiate herself to a bunch of people who prejudged her the minute they met her anyway.”the group” implys “exclusive” the minute it comes out of your the phone being pointed at her and travis wasnt meant to make her feel uncomfortable either ..I’ve met people like that,I didnt think as highly of them as they did of themselves…lol

  9. Does anyone think that the shot from the gun could have happened in the bathroom, and not in the bedroom? The reason I ask is because Jodi says that she fumbled with the camera, dropped the camera, and Travis came out of the shower and “body slammed” her. Then, she says that she raced to the closet, retrieved the gun, exited the closet, and shot him in the bedroom, just before he dove at her. Do I have this correct?

    What concerns me about this story is that we would have to assume that Jodi is telling the truth, and that the simple act of dropping a camera was enough to cause Travis to come out of a shower, in a rage, and “body slam” a woman. Is it possible? Yes, it is possible. But, I am not sure that it is probable. According to Jodi, this was followed by, “Bitch, I am going to kill you”. Again, we are talking about a digital camera. And, the irony is that this camera was still functioning after all of this, because photos were inadvertently taken, even after Travis was dead.

    On the other hand, hypothetically speaking, if Jodi had said, “You think you are going to go to Cancun with some other woman? Well, I am going to take all of these nudie photos, of Mr. LSD Mormon, and I am going to dump them all over the place!” Then, I could see Travis getting angry, and maybe jumping out of the shower. But, to say that Travis leaped out of the shower, and “body slammed” Jodi, simply because she dropped his camera, seems to be a bit of a stretch. In otherwords, we would have to believe that all of this anger was unleashed primarily on account of the camera – even though the camera was still functioning, after he was dead.

    Also, I think that if Jodi had fumbled with the camera, and dropped it, Travis would have immediately wanted to inspect the camera, to see whether it was okay, or not. But, this story shifts abruptly from a dropped camera – that still worked – to a life and death fight. I just am not convinced that this scenario is all that probable. Why didn’t Travis first turn his attention to the camera, in order to verify that it was still working?

    The other concern I have is about the gunshot, itself. Originally, it was maintained that the gunshot wound came last. But, according to Jodi, it came first. Only, Jodi said that the gunshot wound came into play, in the bedroom. This would have occurred after Jodi says that she had fled to the closet, found the gun, and then met Travis in the bedroom. Yet, Jodi did admit that the blood splatter on the sink only could have come from Travis, while he was standing up, over the sink. So, where was the bullet casing, from the gunshot, found? It was found in the bathroom – not the bedroom. “A bullet casing is seen lodged in congealed blood in Alexander’s BATHROOM”.

    Jodi claims that she inadvertently shot Travis in the bedroom. Yet, the bullet casing is found in the bathroom, where a spray of his blood is also found on the sink. The question is, if Travis chased Jodi to the bedroom, as she claims, then why are both his spray of blood, and the bullet casing, both found in the bathroom? If this indicates that he was shot in the bathroom, then it completely undermines her story. If she first shot him in the bathroom, and then finished killing him in the hallway, with a knife, she cannot say that he chased her back to the bedroom, where she inadvertently shot him. And, this raises the question: Why would she have shot him in the bathroom, where he was taking a shower? And, why would she lie about it?

    The digital camera, was heavily water damaged, by being run through the washing machine. This occurred after the photos were deleted. Also, as far as I can tell, there was no need to move the body back to the shower. So, why was the body moved? Also, why was water poured all over the floor? Was it to slicken the floor, to move the body, or was it to wash up blood? Also, what happened to the knife? Was it returned to the dishwasher? Or, was it taken? And, if Jodi did not take the knife, or the camera, then why take the gun, and dispose of it? Also, if Jodi did say that she disposed of the gun, her bloody clothes, and washed blood off of her hands, in the desert, then how can she say that she was not sure that Travis was dead, until she got confirmation, a few days later? Where would she have thought that the weapons, and the blood, came from? I mean, even if she claims that she cannot remember the actual event, she cannot say that she does not remember washing her hands, changing her clothes, and ditching the gun, in the desert, because she says that she came to her senses in the desert.

    From what I can see, regarding her testimony, if I was a juror, I would have a real problem with “Jodi A” evolving into “Jodi B”, in the desert, between the “fog” episode, and the “non-fog” episode. The problem is that if she did not remember what had happened, then why would she continue to employ tactics to hide the physical evidence, or to mislead others with false communications? To me, this suggests that she clearly knew what had happened, and her subsequent plan was based on the knowledge of such events.

    Also, while the defense might bring in post traumatic stress syndrome experts, etc, the reality is that if a person suddenly finds himself, or herself, anywhere, while having no recollection of how he or she got there, it is extremely disorienting, and bewildering. Terrifying questions immediately flood the mind: Where am I? How did I get here? How do I get back? Why don’t I remember how I got here?? As far as I can see, the real question is not whether PTSD memory problems are real. The real question is how do people act, immediately after suffering severe short term memory loss? Most people would be extremely bewildered. But, we do not see this with Jodi. We see the continual elimination of evidence, followed by bogus messages to other people, followed by a visit where she seems perfectly normal, etc.

    Let’s say, for example, if Jodi showed up at Ryan’s crying, and she said, “I don’t know what happened. I thought I was coming to Utah. But, I wound up in the desert in Arizona. And, I found myself with blood all over my clothes, a gun in my car, and blood on my hands. I don’t know what happened. Maybe I am going crazy! I don’t even know how I got to Arizona. Maybe someone drugged me and played a joke on me. What should I do??” If any think like this occurred, it would be more believable. In fact, if she had called 911 and reported being lost, bloodied, and extremely disoriented, it would be more believable. But, her “post-fog” account appears to follow the very same script as the “fog” account, in hiding evidence, and being deceptive. Again, if I was a juror, I think that I would have a very hard time with the transition between “Jodi A”, and “Jodi B”, once I saw that the same pattern of behavior was being carried out, in both cases. And, if the jurors stop believing in the fog story, then the whole thing is going to look like a cover-up, carried out on numerous levels, with the “fog” being the final veil over all the other deceptions.

    Also, when the prosecutor reviewed her previous relationships, with males, I think that Jodi’s explanations gave way to the idea that she calls the shots, and has the final say. When he reviewed her relationship with her mother, who came down to help Jodi move, the same idea came out. In other words, when she needed her mother’s help, she was more than happy to receive it. But, when her mother was not happy about some of her choices, it appears that she immediately wanted her mom out of the picture.

    Because of the way that all of this was admitted to, the jurors may have difficulty in seeing Jodi as being a “battered victim”, just as they may have a problem believing in the dropped camera/body slam scenario. Rather, they may see her as being highly controlling, habitually dishonest, and somewhat vindictive. And, if the jurors think that Jodi took the gun to the bathroom, and shot Travis in the head, possibly upon exiting the shower, then they may not see Jodi as being a victim, at all.

    As I almost wrote two days ago, my view is that Jodi has been her own worst enemy in all of this. Prior to making the claim of self defense, there was simply too much dishonest behavior, that was carried out rather aggressively, and even arrogantly, prior to changing the story. And, if the actual account does not hold up, due to the evidence at hand, then the jurors may end up assuming that she is guilty, regardless of what she says. So, I am not all that optimistic, at this point.

    • Maybe I’m wrong but I believe that she testified that she grabbed the gun and as he opened the door to the closet she was standing in the bathroom when she pointed the gun at him. The middle of the bathroom if I’m not mistaken.

      • Also she has testified that she does have some memories of other things that happened during the attack but can’t testify about them because it’s a blur. We don’t know what other impressions she remembers of that day nor when she started having for a lack of a better term “flashbacks”. I have an excellent memory but when it comes to the abuse I suffered as a child I have large holes. She has testified it was the most tramatic moment of her life. As a juror I think I would be able to justify to myself why her brain has edited portions.

        The one thing that did bother me yesterday is I noticed she has an aversion to saying killed. Instead she uses things like I can’t beleive I would do SOMETHING so awful. I didn’t think I was the type of person who could do THAT. She has admitted to killing him in SD but on the stand seemed to avoid saying it yesterday. It could be her avoiding thinking about the awful memories but it stuck out to me.

        • Good point Jaz.
          Jodi has acknowledged she killed him, but using the words “Travis passed away” seems to me that she still hasn’t dealt with the fact that he is dead and that she was involved.
          When I listen to her talk about him, it is almost as though he is still alive.
          I wonder if some of her contradictions with her answers to the jury questions are in part because she still hasn’t completely come to terms with the fact he is dead.
          Which would make sense to me that perhaps she is not as cold blooded as the media are making her out to be.
          A previous poster mentioned that Jodi displayed some Aspbergers behavior.
          I think that is an excellent observation.

          • As a practicing psychologist Jodi doesn’t display any form of Autism of the spectrum disorder.

            Let’s say we all agree she was damaged as a child from discipline or spankings. Which would cause PTSD but would also exhibit depression which goes hand in hand with PTSD. If her mother and father yelled/ screamed at her the shaking would of started long before 2007 as she stated on the stand this week.

            Jumping from relationship to relationship stems from abandonment from her father if her story is true.

            As for the fog, or shaky memory I can see this because of the nature of the murder. Why drive to Utah with bloody clothes and hands and risk being pulled over? Why not take the knife, gun, clothes, camera? If you can think clearly enough to take the gun, rope, etc then you would take the camera. I thought I read somewhere that she took her license plate off when she got to Travis house…. then remembered to put it back on when she left?

            As for dragging the body back to the shower I could see this if she had adrenaline rush which we can assume she did with the nature of the murder. She talks as though he’s still present, very odd behavior. Never states that she was fighting for her life ( self-defense). Never talks bad about him even after everything he did to her. Not showing any emotions on the stand especially for someone she claims to have loved and cared for.

            If the statement above is true about only being able to get gas between those hours, she has some explaining to do….. What would be the reasoning for lying about the third gas can. It would make sense to have three if the car held 15 gallons of gas? Correct?

            She definitely exhibits a personality disorder.

            It would of been cheaper to sequester the jury and have a fair trial then to have a mistrial and have to go through this again. Next time it will be impossible to have a fair trial with the media all over this…. this has become worldwide known murder.

            I am not for the DP unless your a child killer, or Charles Manson ……

            Her attorney’s need to guide her better…. they have had ample time to prepare for this trial. or this is their way to strike famous with all the media coverage? We seen this with the Casey Anthony trial.

            She has more sexual abuse issues then domestic violence issues. She has stated many times on the stand that it only happened four times in the course of two years of knowing each other. I am a survivor of domestic violence and rape. I work with women on a daily bases that have been abused on a daily bases.

            If you are devoted to your faith such as being a Mormon you know not to engage in any form of sex what so ever. All I had to do was one Google search to find the answers to this so his sexual fantasies were to be brought to the church, and not acted upon. Including masturbation, touching yourself in the shower or bed, dressing fully in pajamas. This was/ is a double standard in their relationship.

            • Hi Rachael-
              Just a few questions.

              What criteria are you using for your assertion that she “definately exhibits a personality disorder” ?

              What personality disorder do you think she has?

              Please clarify your statement, that she has more sexual abuse issues than domestic violence issues, and that she states it only happend four times in their two year relationship? Four times of which, sexual or physical abuse?

              As you know, abuse/ violence only has to happen one time to cause trauma. Jodi, as do many victims, does not even have a full understanding of what acts are abusive and or violent. I find it likely that the physical abuse as well as the sexual assaults, which even Travis referred to as rape, happened much more than four times over those years.Jodi just did not recognize them as abuse. I’m certain, that as a victim yourself as well as being a professional working with abused women, you would not wish to give the impression that you are minimizing the extent of Jodi’s abuse or the trauma inflicted, which some of your statement seems to do. I think all of these distinctions may be very critical in her defense of “self defense” and the repeated trauma and instances of abuse leading to her fear that Travis was going to kill her, and she had no choice but to defend her own life.
              Thank you.

              • No one can definitely say that Jodi has a personality disorder unless they’ve met and evaluated her. Most of us exhibit some traits of one disorder or another.

            • Hi Rachel,

              I’m also a psychologist.

              The research on repressed memory doesn’t support Jodi’s story of “fog”. Not at all. While the defense will find experts to disagree with me, the prosecution’s witnesses will have research on their side (I’m not a clinician … I’m research/academic).

              You might find the work of Elizabeth Loftus to be of interest.

              I agree that Jodi shows signs of PDs.

              You state:
              “She has more sexual abuse issues then domestic violence issues.”

              You go too far. There simply isn’t any conclusive evidence that I am aware of from Jodi or others for anyone to make the claim that she is a sexual abuse victim.

              I have read folks here mentioning that TA “raped” JA. That isn’t what I hear in Jodi’s testimony. However, I’m also not touching that issue with a 100 foot pole.

              I have no problem saying that Jodi shows signs of PDs. But sexual abuse? Too far; too much conjecture.

              Kira, you are correct; unless we evaluate Jodi, we don’t know for certain that Jodi has a (or several) PDs. But I certainly see signs of PDs. That’s not the same thing.

              Frankly, over 15% of Americans (some est up to 25%) have a PD.

              • lisa,
                you say ”I have read folks here mentioning that TA “raped” JA. ”
                Maybe you forget that it was Mr Alexander himself that admittet to that in the sex tape.

                • Maria,
                  Jodi herself, on the stand, said that was not what TA meant. She then said the sex was consensual.

              • Listen to the a tape a psychiatrist that was interviewed on COURT TV stated he believed she was an abuse victim and sexual abuse victim. He was very credible not like these silly people appearing on the Trashy TV shows Travis behavior is that of a sexual abuser. Coupled with control he had over her. Her self esteem, the fact that she needed a Man in her life to feel valued Braids, School Girl.. No body hair, 12 year old, rape anal sex when you put that all together it spells Degenerate & Are are considered red flags for a pedophile.
                And then their is his friends GROSS comment!

                Twas two nights before Christmas, and all through the greater Phoenix area, Travis was cruising for underage boys to make his Christmas more cozy. Have fun, just don’t violate the terms of your probation!

      • It happened in the bathroom. Besides Jodi testifying to that, I don’t think the pros has refuted that TA was shot in the bathroom.

    • Ben-
      I appreciate your questions, and think they are indicative of the types of misconception still exist today in regard to Domestic/Partner violence. I would like to suggest that you do some research on Domestic Violence. There is a recent case in NYS where a young woman’s boyfriend beat her to death in her Dorm Room. He told police that he snapped because she had been rude to him earlier in the evening. There was also the case of Yeardly Love, a young women beaten to death in her college apartment by her boyfriend.

      I emplore people to become educated on this topic. It is the only way our society has a chance of preventing these types of tragedies in the future.

      • Hello TR,

        I actually have taken some classes on the subjects of abuse, familial problems, divorce, etc. I am not saying that I am an expert. I am not an expert, by any means. Also, there are actual checklists which are used to identify when something should be considered domestic violence. Domestic violence can involve threats, etc, and other forms of coercion.

        My point, though, is more on a 2+2=4 level. From a strictly objective point of view, the way the story of the camera falling transitions to the immediate “body slam”, and declaration, “Bitch, I am going to kill you”, seems a bit incongruous. To me, the issue is not whether or not Travis had a temper problem. Maybe he did. Maybe he didn’t. Those who knew him would know better. To me, the issue is whether dropping a camera would be the trigger for exiting the shower, body slamming a woman, and then declaring that he is going to kill the woman. If we believe Jodi, then we would have to believe that Travis was near psycho, and even would not even stop to see whether the camera is okay. As I mentioned before, I have dropped my own digital camera – even on concrete. And, my immediate reaction was to grab the camera, and see whether it was still working. On a 2+2 = 4 level, why would Travis launch a murderous attack, rather than to see if the camera was okay? And, if we know that the camera was still functioning, even after he was dead, then we know for sure that the camera could have been okay. On a 2+2=4 level, if this story is in any way true, then I would say that Travis would have made a B-line for the camera, in order to verify whether or not any damage had taken place. If Travis had checked the camera, and he saw that it was okay, then he would have been relieved, rather than angry. Also, while we know that the camera sustained massive water damage, no one has said that it was damaged by the fall that Jodi described. So, what if the camera had never been dropped, at all? This is the whole problem with basing things on what Jodi “says”. If the camera had never actually been dropped, then the whole story could be false, because there would no longer be any reason – at least given by Jodi – for an attack. Also, it is not clear to me whether some of the camera’s pictures were taken in the hallway. If they were, I would find this to be quite disturbing, because in the account that Jodi gave, she dropped the camera, Travis “body slammed” her, and she ran away. If this is what transpired, then I see no reason for camera shots to have been taken in the hallway.

        To me, the first issue is not one of understanding “domestic violence”. The first issue is in trying to sort out whether her stories are true, or not. If the evidence shows that she did shoot Travis in the bathroom, while she says that she shot him in the bedroom, then it could seriously undermine her claim of “self defense”. Shooting him in the bedroom could show that she was in retreat. But, shooting him in the bathroom, possibly as he exited the shower, could show that she was the aggressor, and that she lied, to cover up what had happened.

        At a certain point, a juror may ask, “Why can we not make sense out of the evidence, especially the parts that Jodi says that she cannot remember? Is it because Jodi took so many steps to obfuscate the trail, that it is no longer re-constructable?” If the jurors should end up coming to this conclusion, then they still may see her as being guilty.

        Hello Skywriter,

        Thanks for your comments. I just want to mention that the shower photos were not the only photos that Jodi had. She also had a semi-nude photo of him, on the bed. She had a nude photo of herself, on his bed. And, she had a penis photo, in her computer. So, a few shower shots would have simply been icing on the cake. Hypothetically speaking, she could have said,”Travis, if you go to Cancun without me, these pictures might just show up somewhere. And, I don’t think that you are going to be too happy about it.”.

        Still, beyond anything that was said – or not said – if the evidence shows that Jodi shot him in the bathroom, as soon as he exited the shower, then I do not think that it is going to be good for her. First, it would show that she lied about accidentally shooting him in the bedroom – which means that she would have lied about the “chase”, too. And, second, it could show that she was actually the aggressor. In other words, a few words could have been exchanged in the bathroom, she could have left the room – while he was still showering – and returned with the gun. As soon as he opened the shower door, or stepped out of the shower, she could have shot him in the head, which could have left some splatter on the sink, and this could also explain why the shell was found in the bathroom, and not in the bedroom.

        Also, I think it is possible that the prosecutor may look for every inconsistency, at this point, and then spring all of it, at the end. For example, Jodi did admit that Travis would have to be standing up, near the sink, in order for his blood to be splattered on the sink. So, if the prosecutor dovetails the evidence, with Jodi’s own admission, I think that he could convince the jury that she had lied, and that she actually shot Travis, in the bathroom. But, he may not go very far into this, right now, because he would know that it would give Jodi a chance to come up with another explanation.

        Actually, I do not know anything about legal proceedings. But, my feeling is that he will spring a bunch of stuff, right at the end. And, if he does this, I suspect that he will use her own admissions against her. In some cases, Jodi’s defense has been that she “does not remember’. But, the prosecutor worked around this, by pointing out that she was the only one there, and that dead Travis could not have gotten up and walked around, in order to create certain effects. So, I think that his conclusion, at the end, will be that the evidence tells a different story, than what Jodi claims. And, if he gets this far with the jurors, then they may end up agreeing that she is guilty, at least of lying. And, from there, they might assume that she is guilty of murder. But, they might not be able to “prove” that she is guilty of pre-meditated murder. They may see it as a “passion” type of murder. If it was a passion type of murder, then I still see room for some degree of sympathy. I would have far less sympathy for a law enforcement agent who shoots up an unarmed suspect, just for target practice.

        • Ben, please get your facts straight. She never said she shot him in the bedroom. She said she shot him inadvertently in the bathroom. I think you need to review the video of Day 25 before you state that “she lied about accidentally shooting him in the bedroom “. I hope the jurors are paying better attention then you are.

        • Ben, Jodi shot TA in the bathroom. About the camera, I think someone that has spent $100 on a camera wouldn’t get as upset as someone that has spent $1400 on a camera. Thats a big difference. Now can you see why TA or anyone would be at least a little upset about there brand new expensive camera. I understand your 2+2=4 strategy about the reaction of what normally happens when someone drops a camera. We dont know, jodi doesnt know if TA looked at the camera. On yesterday’s jury question, one was exactly that. “Could TA have gaven you time to run in the closet n reach for the gun, while he looked at the camera?” (something like that). Jodi answered, he could’ve possibly, but she wasnt certain, she didnt look back, she just ran to the closet. So, that could’ve been very possible, that TA while looking at the camera, jodi had a few more seconds to reach for the gun. Then he was right behind her as she ran through the bathroom door because the other door was closed. Now, if Jodi wanted to be a lier, she could’ve easy asnswered YES to that question. Or if Jodi wanted to make her story more believable she could’ve said that while taking pictures of TA in the shower, she decided to be honest with him n told him she was on her way to see Ryan Burns when she left, TA got angry, jelouse, outraged and csme out for her. BUT she didnt. She told us the stupid camera fell. As stupid as it sounds, I blv shes telling the truth and just for that very same reason. Because its so simple, mshe could’ve came up with something so much better, believable and she didn’t. Maybe because THAT is the truth.

          Well, thats my opinion about the camera story.

          • Well said, LC! Yes there’s a lot of ways Jodi could have taken this story, if she were lying, but no she is telling the truth. The truth just isn’t as glamorous and entertaining as people want it to be. I swear, sometimes I wonder if people are watching this trial like it’s a movie.

            • Thx MB. Where have you been, I miss your comments. I need to read more of your comments, they keep my faith up!! ; ))

          • Is it possible too that if he picked up the camera to inspect it, while she ran to the closet that he inadvertently took the pic of the ceiling? And he ran with the camera down the hall? Then somehow she picked it up?

        • I have to admit I have a problem with the camera also. She said it fell off to the right of the shower…by the tub. From the house layout, the door to the hall/bathroom appears to be straight off from the shower. The picture of him laying in the hall looks as though it was taken directly in front of the door straight down the hall. You can actually see his foot off in the distance down the hall. How can that picture be so obviously straight on down the hall, when the camera landed way to the right of that door. I am guessing that is why they are paying so much attention to where the camera landed….
          As for the nude pictures she had of Travis laying in the bed nude….for all we know HE deleted them right away. If she is out for proof of his failed morman, I doubt she’d care about the nudes of herself btw.
          The ones of him in the shower are from waist up. Hey he could say he had swim trunks on. The one of him sitting in the shower, although it shows his nude does not show his face…just his body. The penis ones she had can’t prove that’s his.
          If we are assuming she needed photos to “out” him as a fake mormon….she’d need in the shower ..fully nude.. with his face as well as lower portion in it. There are none. With that in mind…this could have been really like she said…a photo shoot.
          True she could have made a comment about if these got in the wrong hands…and that enraged him. Let’s face it…she could have taken the camera and ran out with it. He’s naked and can’t chase her.
          Overall, I read Travis’ blog. He came from a terrible childhood with domestic violence. Sometimes as much as they hate it, they tend to turn out a domestic abuser themselves because it is so familiar to them.
          Gus Searcy said he did witness Jodi coward down to travis on the phone… her whole demeanor changed when Travis called. He had alot of control over her through her love for him. That to me is clear. She was in love… but he had a booty call that would keep it secret for him.
          One thing I am very clear on….. I heard the phone call. No man should ever talk to a woman that way. Or do the things he did and wanted to do to her. Tie her to a tree ??? Whatever happened, Travis was not innocent in this either.

          • You are right sky…after reading the writing of Travis own words about the emotional and physical abuse they all endured as children from their drug addicted parents…it would not be uncommon for them to have been sexually abused too…possibly this would explain Travis sexual obsession to wanting Jodi to act like a 12 year old girl and for him to prefer anal sex over vaginal sex…and for all of his kinky sexual orientation…Travis Alexander really needed to psychological counseling…it is a shame that he didn’t seek professional help…

          • Sky,

            Thanks for the additional information. I also was troubled by the idea that the camera was found down the hall, at one point. If Jodi dropped the camera, was body slammed, and fled, then I see no reason for the camera to ever be down the hall.

        • Ben-
          I appreciate your desire to understand this case and the evidence. I’m also glad that you have taken some courses in the Social Sciences. I will assume you took them by choice which would be indicitive of an interest in such important topics as Domestic Violence.

          I in no way claim to be an expert, but I am a former Social Worker with 30 plus years of experience, in which I garnered knowledge from first hand information, and training about these issues.

          That being said, this case is about Premeditated Murder and a Self Defense defense. I continue to assert that there is reasonable doubt and clear and convincing evidence that Jodi acted in self defense. Please don’t be fooled about this type of violence. Many women have been murdered by thier significant others, for far less agregious “offenses” than dropping a brand new camera that the man was excited about using on his upcoming trip to Mexico.

          I caution you to not summarily dismiss the idea that Jodi having photos and taped phone calls that could be used against him as another reason that he attacked her.

          THEORY ONLY:
          Jodi may in fact have been thinking of exposing him as a fraud in the Morman Church, with the taped phone call and photos. Possibly Jodi was getting wind of the horrible things his friends were saying about her and she had proof otherwise, and was prepared to use it. Jodi did not have any intention of killing him, just slipped up and gave herself away. After all she does have a way of giving lots of information! ( I know, much like I am giving too much info) Travis would have gone into a complete and ferocious rage. Jodi would not testify to this as she would be terrified that it would be misconstrued, as everything else has been, as premeditation.

          I use this as an example to encourage you to not dismiss valid ideas from someone like Skywriter, and encourage you to not draw conclusions without taking a look at all of the critical information, and possible scenarios.

          • He was in a pissy mood before the camera was dropped. People once again forget those nagging little details.

          • Hello TB,

            While I might be dismissive of an idea, I do not intend to be dismissive of people. I hope that makes sense. I am not convinced that Jodi left Yreka with a plan to kill Travis. But, I also am not convinced that the incident was entirely one of self defense.

            • Well the prosecution’s case is that JA left Yreka planning to kill Travis. If you’re not convinced of that then you are in agreement with the majority of us here that Jodi is innocent.

              Bottomline, this case was overcharged.

        • No, they won’t because they have nothing to prove premeditation or motive.

          You are reading far more into this than there is.

          • tonysam,

            I admire your conviction that is the case. Did you listen to the testimony of the jury questions? Listening to them really made me feel depressed and they are leaning towards the state’s theory. Not to mention it was left the way it was left all throughout this long weekend for them to think.

    • Good points. I have given this thought from every angle as well. Worst case …let’s say Jodi was fed up. Let’s say he had used her as a sex toy for years…but would not commit to her. He was about to go to Cancun with another woman. Jodi felt like a used piece of trash. Like he lived out his twisted sexual fantasies on her…and is going off to look for an angel to wear his wedding band. So she gets her grandfather’s gun, fills some gas tanks and heads off to kill Travis. Let’s say she held the gun on him and gave him the photo shoot of his life since he wants to tie her to a tree and video it. Really look at the photo of him looking at the camera. Could look like a man who’s scared, mad and trying to figure how to get out of this. Let’s say as you pointed out she maybe is just going to take the pictures and show everyone what a fake mormon he is. She’s out for payback. I’ve thought of all of this.
      Only one problem. The photo’s of him are all from the waist up. If she was out to get pic’s of him to use against him….I’d think she’d have taken full nudity ones.
      However, I think you make a good point. She could have made a comment about showing the pics to others and he charged her. The gun goes off but does not kill him. It’s a very small caliber weapon and the path it took most likely avoided serious damage. But it was loud and she did not want to fire it again, so she gets the knife.

      • All of the above, and she was naked too, with some pretty explicit shots of her bottom parts. So… blackmail makes no sense – IMO. Just IMO.

        • She was naked in the photos. But, if she edited the photo a bit, she could have threatened to circulate it, while still showing that she was in Travis’ bedroom.

          Also, she never claimed to be a “virgin”. Nowadays, it appears that minors are even engaging in such behavior, with their cell phone cameras. So, I cannot assume that she was worried about people seeing it. Otherwise, if she was worried, then why take the photos in the first place? She did say on the stand that she would not write everything in her journal, because it could one day fall into the wrong hands. So, by that line of reasoning, what would be the purpose of taking nude photos, unless she did not care whether people found out? In fact, if she did make “sex videos” with Travis, then there would always be something that she could use against Travis, down the road. Yet, I believe that she said that it was his idea. Suppose they did make sex videos, and down the road, Travis ended up marrying someone else. Then, what would stop Jodi from potentially destroying the marriage, by “allowing the sex videos to fall into the wrong hands”?

          From what I can see, the stories that keep coming out, in this case, seem harder and harder to fit together. Maybe it is just me though.

        • Yeah…I don’t think for a minute that she’d threaten to blackmail Travis with nude photos considering the ones of her that were taken. They were VERY detailed. Virgin or not, no one would want those types of photos of themselves out for public view. She must be so humiliated now that they were shown during the trial.

      • Only thing about blackmailing him with the pics, it was his camera. So unless she planned to run off with the camera or card. How would she get the pics out of him to use this against him. I agree it is hard to fit together. And if we are having a hard time understanding, imagine being on the jury and not being able to talk to anyone about it.

    • “What concerns me about this story is that we would have to assume that Jodi is telling the truth, and that the simple act of dropping a camera was enough to cause Travis to come out of a shower, in a rage, and “body slam” a woman. Is it possible? Yes, it is possible. But, I am not sure that it is probable.”

      Hi Ben, I hope you won’t mind if I answer this from the perspective of a domestic violence victim. First, I want to state that I am 100% convinced, without a doubt in my mind, that Travis Alexander was an abusive man. I am also 100% convinced that he abused Jodi, emotionally, spiritually and physically, and perhaps even financially.

      Now, to you (and most other people), it may seem completely outrageous that the “simple act of dropping a camera” would make a man fly into such an outrageous state of rage. So if I may, let me give you some examples from my own life, and let’s see if I can provide any edification about abusers. How about putting away the cat food cans but failing to arrange them in the order my ex-husband wanted? Does that seem like something that should cause him to fly into a rage and toss all the cans in the pantry cupboard onto my head? Or, let’s see … how about putting away the milk, but because I’m so incredibly stupid, not realizing that, even though both liters had the same expiration date, one was ever-so-slightly colder than the other, and therefore, the warmer one should have been place towards the front of the shelf in the fridge? Does that seem like a “mistake” that would justify opening a cabinet door and banging it against my head repeatedly, telling me that he was going to effing kill me? Or, how about, I was crying because he was 4 hours late picking me up from an appointment and I had no way to get home. I didn’t dare complain, but couldn’t hide my tears. That resulted in me being body slammed into a door and my shoulder being pushed. I vomited on the floor and, while cleaning it up, I got kicked. Then, there was the time he washed his precious $10 cloths he bought to “shine” his Corvette, and put them in the dryer without realizing there was already a towel in there, which he claimed I must have left in the dryer. That resulted in me being pushed down the stairs.

      Okay, I could go on and on and on and give you example after example. There is no reason WHY abusive men fly into rages, but they do.

      “According to Jodi, this was followed by, “Bitch, I am going to kill you”. Again, we are talking about a digital camera.”

      See my example above about $10 cloths to shine his Corvette with.

      “But, to say that Travis leaped out of the shower, and “body slammed” Jodi, simply because she dropped his camera, seems to be a bit of a stretch. In otherwords, we would have to believe that all of this anger was unleashed primarily on account of the camera – even though the camera was still functioning, after he was dead.”

      Or just because he was an abuser and felt like knocking the “bitch” down a peg or two. After all, she was getting ready to leave. It could be a while before he had another chance.

      “Also, I think that if Jodi had fumbled with the camera, and dropped it, Travis would have immediately wanted to inspect the camera, to see whether it was okay, or not.”

      Maybe … but it might have been more fun for him, an abuser, to have a go at Jodi FIRST. My ex had a go at me BEFORE he figured out he could have me pick off the towel fluff and his lovely chamois cloths would work just fine again.

      “I just am not convinced that this scenario is all that probable. Why didn’t Travis first turn his attention to the camera, in order to verify that it was still working?”

      And that’s exactly why most of us that are abused don’t try to explain it to anyone or report it. It just doesn’t make sense. How do I explain that because I stepped on the creaky step while he was allegedly trying to concentrate, I disturbed him so much that he chased me into my bedroom (I wasn’t allowed to sleep in his, even though we were married), broke down the door when I tried to lock it, then when I hid in the closet, he broke that too, and threatened me with a hammer to my skull, while I crouched in the fetal position begging him not to kill me? All that over a creak on the stairs? OMG, a dropped camera would certainly have gotten me killed 20 times over!

      “The problem is that if she did not remember what had happened, then why would she continue to employ tactics to hide the physical evidence, or to mislead others with false communications? To me, this suggests that she clearly knew what had happened, and her subsequent plan was based on the knowledge of such events.”

      Or, she was just acting in a “trained way”. This is also very difficult to explain to anyone who hasn’t been abused. I blew a fuse in my apartment. Flipping the circuit on the box in my apartment didn’t work. I had to call maintenance. BEFORE I called them, I had to clean, clean, clean. I was in a panic attack. You see, I’d blown a fuse before while living with my ex, and it had gotten me hurt. Plus, any time anything happened and someone had to come by, he told me I had to make everything look perfect. This applied to the house, the car, a hotel room, anywhere …

      “But, we do not see this with Jodi. We see the continual elimination of evidence, followed by bogus messages to other people, followed by a visit where she seems perfectly normal, etc.”

      Again, she acts as if on remote control. See my example above. I could recite countless examples of me just doing things and not knowing I did them throughout my life.

      “But, her “post-fog” account appears to follow the very same script as the “fog” account, in hiding evidence, and being deceptive. Again, if I was a juror, I think that I would have a very hard time with the transition between “Jodi A”, and “Jodi B”, once I saw that the same pattern of behavior was being carried out, in both cases. And, if the jurors stop believing in the fog story, then the whole thing is going to look like a cover-up, carried out on numerous levels, with the “fog” being the final veil over all the other deceptions.”

      I agree with you that is quite probably how the jury will see it. But I don’t. Yet, I can’t even explain it well enough to get you to understand, I’d imagine.

      “Also, when the prosecutor reviewed her previous relationships, with males, I think that Jodi’s explanations gave way to the idea that she calls the shots, and has the final say. ”

      I would say that would fit with a review of my other relationships also, or at least, they were 50/50.

      “Rather, they may see her as being highly controlling, habitually dishonest, and somewhat vindictive.”

      It’s not at all unusual for battered women to be highly controlling and habitually dishonest. I was definitely like that while stuck in the abuse, definitely definitely definitely. I couldn’t control anything at home. I couldn’t control my life. So, if there was ANYTHING I could control, I sure as heck did. I work with someone currently who’s an abuse victim. She’s away from her abuser, but hasn’t gotten any help. She is a total control freak at work and it was worse during her divorce. She reminds me of how I was. She was like this before she got away from her abuser too. She has control at work. She had none at home, and still hasn’t gotten help to deal with her emotions, so she doesn’t realize it. Again, this is soooo hard to explain. It’s as if you develop some of the traits of the abuser yourself and actually inflict them on others. You’re such an emotional disaster. I wish I could explain, but you would have to experienced it, and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.

      “So, I am not all that optimistic, at this point.”

      Me either. But I’m hoping she doesn’t get the death penalty and I don’t see how they can do that since premeditation has not been proven.

      • Also Abused-
        You explained abuse and it’s effects better than I ever could. Thank you. I am so sorry that you were so victimized by that vile man, and that he has been given appropriate consequence by the Legal system. I also hope that you have found support and counseling that has brought you healing.

        • Thank you TR. I spent about a year and a half in counseling specific to domestic violence and it really helped a great deal. I moved away to a new state with nothing, very little money, barely knowing only a couple of people here. I began working, which helped me to heal also and rebuild self esteem. It was a very very slow process, made even worse because of a long drawn out nasty divorce. We’re divorced now, but it’s on appeal by me because even though he took everything, he also got a financial award against me, fraudulently. (Long story, but essentially, the judge ordered me to give him my new home address and work address as part of discovery, even though I’m in an address confidentiality program and have an injunction for protection against him. When I refused, she struck my pleadings and prohibited me from participating in my own divorce. He therefore got a default judgment for whatever he wanted which gives him yet another legal avenue to track me down if he domesticates the judgment here and garnishes my wages and bank accounts.) His lawyer has played every game in the book and I couldn’t afford a lawyer. I took some power back when I filed my appeal and wrote my own briefs. (My only real goal is to protect my address. I could care less about the money. I want NO ties to him.) The state I live in now got behind me on this and filed as amicus curiae in the appeal.

          As for him, on his criminal felony charges, he refused to take a plea bargain and demanded a trial. The case was reassigned to a different prosecutor who didn’t think it was winnable “enough” and would be expensive with me in another state, and so, she dropped the charges. He attempted to batter his mistress, and she threw him out and contacted me, and we had some good chats, which were healing. After that, I don’t know and don’t care. He’s a narcissistic sociopath. He almost got away with killing me. I found out he had a former ex-wife who had a restraining order against him, another former wife who died “under mysterious circumstances” and a girlfriend or wife who has been missing for a long time. He also had a felony conviction. It’s amazing that you can know someone for so long and not know a damn thing about them.

          Today, I have have an incredible guy in my life who treats me really really well. I have gotten glowing reviews at my job. I’ve found my voice again and slowly but surely, I’m getting back to being me. Life is good and I’m happy. I still have stuff to work on and the PTSD is still lurking around the corner, but I’ve come a long way, and I’m proud.

      • Hi Also Abused,

        Your words are so thoughtfully put together and coming from a place that only one who has been there knows… I know! Its hard to fully convey to another (even as empathetic as they may be) the irrationality of all of it, and for a normal mind to wrap itself around it to truly and fully comprehend the magnitude, depth, and again the irrationality of characteristics of abusive patterns.

        Even long after the abused has left the scene, the abusers voice still echoes in their mind, reverberating at even seemingly fleeting things that act as triggers. And they will find that the effects permeate almost every area and aspect of their life henceforth, never to fully recover with the echoes of it still lingering… And so the questions from others will always be there: ‘why didn’t you leave?’, along with the skepticism that almost always follows. So yes, most times, being already weary and with their spirit broken, its easier to just let others keep throwing stones. Because otherwise we could keep explaining till we are blue in the face, and yet never be fully validated for the experience.

        Much kudos to you for putting words to the sheer insanity of it all. I have tried and failed plenty, even with those who saw my personality radically change from who I was, to who I am now, right in front of their eyes. The old me is no more (and I still miss her and grieve for her). The new me, is a stranger even to myself. I know deep within my soul that I will never be fully believed by those that I needed to believe, for the reality of what I endured, so I don’t offer explanations anymore. It is a sobering thought for me.

        • Also Abused,

          I’m sure this post will make sense to you. Reading a snippet of your story completely freaks me out. It brings back too many painful moments. Reading the few examples you gave to explain to another poster of things that would set him off make me feel terrified. The things I thought I had pushed out of my mind came flooding back.

    • Hello Rb,

      I may have it backwards. Maybe she is saying that she entered the closet, from the bedroom, and re-emerged, in the bathroom, after retrieving the gun. I am reviewing this, again.

        • Rage following her dropping of his new camera is typical, does not surprise me a bit for someone who has a habit of abusing her for so long.

          She said that she chose to run into the closet because he could have caught her as he did in previous occasion if she ran out, and knew it to be a better chance to run in the closet since it has another exit door. It seems true that a smaller woman would have a better chance to escape by running around closet/bathroom circle than heading to the door and opening it, especially if the big guy has wet feet and won’t manage the corners as well.

          • Ben,

            Agree with others you have yr information wrong on the bedroom shooting. She was in the middle of the “bathroom”.

  10. SJ
    Thank you for establishing this web site, where people with critical thinking skills are able to discuss this case and provide valuable information that can be used in Jodi’s defense. I only recently found this site and am now going back to read your older posts and watch previous video of the trial that I missed.

    Yesterday, I read your post about Travis’ “friend”, Chris Hughes, and watched video of his testimony. Hughes and his cronies are clearly interfering in this case, and doing everything possible to insure that Jodi does not recieve a fair trial. It is beyond me why the Court System nor the DA’s office is doing anything to stop this. They are still obligated to insure that a defendant recieve a fair trial, no matter how much media attention they are deriving.

    I also read the post from Jodi’s young sister, where she recounted that Travis supporters have made threats to her and called her two year old child a C***. This is only one example of the depravity of those who are not looking for Truth and Justice, but vengence.

    I whole hearedly believe that this young women is being rail roaded. The trial should have stopped and she should have been found not guilty as soon as the jury heard Travis A. in the taped phone call say he raped Jodi when she was miserable. I know I have harped on this in my recent posts, but that alone creates reasonable doubt for premeditation. You would have to be living under a rock if you don’t know that Rape is a violent act not a sex act. The victim does not need to see it as rape, only the perpetrator. Travis revealed himself as a violent person, so one would not even have to believe Jodi’s accounts of his violence, to know that he was violent toward Jodi. Not such a leap to believe that on the day of his death, he was once again violent toward her.

    I suggest that Travis’ friends, like Mr. Hughes, be very careful about their blind support of Travis. Mr. Hughes is a family man with a young daughter if I understand correctly. There will be a day that his daughter will be looking for her “Morman Mr. Right”, and I pray that she does not find someone like TA who is living a double life and would so callously “Rape her when she was miserable.” (Travis’ words) If it was his child going through this, I would be just as vocal in my support of her!!

    Enough of my thoughts for now……

    However, I am wondering if you know, if Jodi’s family is being provided police protection, and if Law Enforment is investigating these threats? With the growing Mob that are spewing such hate and violence, I am concerned for the family’s safety and particularly the daughter of Jodi’s sister.

    Thanks SJ,

    • Hi TR,

      On the vengeance side, it reminds me of Casey’s trial to a degree, where a lot of people stated THEY just “needed” to have SOMEONE found guilty. Sad really.

      I can’t comment on your last question.

      Team Jodi

      • Thanks for responding SJ. I understand that you are not able to comment. I am hopeful that even though they have so much on their plate, Jodi’s defense team is insuring that Law enforcement is following up and protecting the family. Just so sickened by this.

    • Oh my gosh TR, I didn’t hear that on the tape that Travis raped her. Why didn’t she tell the jury Travis did that to her? Rape is a crime. Travis should have gone to jail.

      • That was covered in the trial, Travis says it on the tape, “Even though you were miserable I raped you anyway.” (my paraphrase)
        She tried to downplay it because god love her, even with her life on the line, she seems absolutely Loathe to say he was a bit of a pig.

      • YEP! TA freely admits raping her. guess HE finds that hot. rape is violence, remember?
        AND the 12 yr. old comment AMONG other things. just that whole phone sex thing is bizarre, imo. i kno it goes on, but… to ME shows what a creep he REALL was in private

        re: the gun. it’s a problem BUT even if she stole and bought w/ her, could b for protection on the road.

        re: gas cans, they say so she wouldnt b noticed, etc. BUT didnt jodi stop along the way anyway?
        thats my recollection. that they have GAS RECEIPTS, she went to walmart, etc.?!


        lil marti makin hay outa the cans Has the jury blving it, i think. so hope nurmi rebutts well.

        • She had a paper trail everywhere she went. The gas cans were there because there is a lot of lonely stretches of road in Nevada and in Utah.

          Any fool would know that.

          • I hope her former boyfriend Daryl is called to the stand to testify that he and Jodi always filled gas cans when taking a trip in the desert, to verify her testimony on that topic. We know Jodi pretty much always did what the men in her life told her to do.

            • Daryl has already taken the stand. He didn’t say they’ve taken gas cans on road trips (but he wasn’t asked either) something Nurmi shouldve asked. And he was nerver asked about teaching jodi the basics of a gun. But I blv he can be called back, not sure.

            • Great point. Jodi did seem to give herself completely to her boyfriends. Sad really…because I think had Travis returned her love, he would have had a wife that would have been totally devoted to him and his needs. After all she hid his dirty little secrets for him and let him still play innocent temple leader. Instead, he chose to twist it up in some abusive sexual fantasy trip.
              I just wonder if there are other women out there keeping his secrets. Mormon women would not come forward and say he did the same thing to them. The mormon community would come down on them for losing their virginity and not keeping the law of chastity…and they’d be punished or outcast. Think about it.

              • Come on you guys. He was using the word creatively. Jodi WOULD have said he “raped” her if he did. Its a bonafide fact that many men and women fantasize about “rape” in their consensual sex fantasies. Not that it IS actual rape. They just mean aggressive raunchy sex. Believe me, had Travis actually raped her, this would have come up. And if not by Jodi than certainly by Mr Nurmi. He would never have allowed that to go by without repeating it clearly for the jury to understand. All the critical testimony about Travis and abuse has been reiterated by Mr Nurmi. Actually a lot of the abuse has primarily been made clear through Mr Nurmi, not Jodi.

                • Wow. Actually Amelia, it did come up and not by Mr. Nurmi. It was made clear by Travis. If you listen to the tape, his statement about rape was not foreplay. I give up! Can’t actually believe that in 2013 folks still don’t have an understanding of rape.

                • It did come up repeatedly Amelia, through the tape itself, and through a written transcription to go along with the tape. If that sentence was the only “iffy”, creepy thing he had said, then maybe it wouldn’t be a stretch to think he was just using the term “creatively”, but when you add it to his love for the thought of 12 year old girls having their 1st big O, and tying people to trees, while ramming them up the a**, admittedly masturbating like how many times a day? (among other things), the statement tends to become a little more significant, don’t you think?

                • Well, don’t forget that one of his text messages said “You will feel as though you’ve been raped.” He had a fascination with the subject whether he meant it “creatively” or not.

                • Well given the context of that phone conversation, I cannot draw the conclusion that Travis was actually talking about a real rape. Real rape being an uninvited sexual attack against an unwilling partner. Jodi was not an unwilling partner and was very much participating and chuckling in the call. Didn’t you hear where she was at times the one to start or encourage a certain sexual fantasy discussion? Let me be clear too, I do NOT think there was anything wrong with that! The people who try to make Jodi sound like a slut and Travis like a virgin are insane and not paying attention to the facts of this case. But to make Jodi out as a complete innocent sexually and that every single thing sexually was Travis making her do certain things, I think that is pretty obviously wrong. Lots of people, have ‘rape’ fantasies in their sexual play. But INNOCENT rape play. This Is NOT to condone aggressive, violent true rape and there is a difference. There is a saying that goes “Keep your fights clean and your sex dirty and it will be good for the relationship”. Please do not try and take this out of context.

          • Tom Sam, or someone – Please tell me what it is that the State is trying to imply with this stupid gas can issue? Like who cares? I don’t get it? Is he trying to say that if she had 5 more gallons, then she must have planned to murder TA? It just boggles my mind. Someone being all shady about gas cans and gas purchases, isn’t going to keep receipts so I figure the whole issue is just moronic, but if someone knows what the Prosecution is trying to imply, could you please fill me in?
            So weird……Is that the best they’ve got? Really? Am I missing something?

    • the only problem is that Jodi admits that TA did not rape her… it was just fantasy. I certainly hope that people come to their senses and quit with the hostile comments. Let the justice system do its job and quit with all the threats – that’s terrible!

      • Not really a problem Katrina. Travis said it himself. The perpetrator himself admitted raping her. Jodi, as an abused woman, may have not recongnized it as Rape.

        • Jodi admitted that he raped her on the stand but stated ” not as it’s define by the law” was her justification. In my eyes rape is rape, but she consented to having sex which is not rape. Maybe her attorney needs to ask for clarification and her definition

          Also I have never been in a court room where they allowed people to be on their cell phones
          That is prohibited in our courts and you will be asked to leave the court room.

          Please give her a fair trial. .

          • It would seem that if she really wanted to make him look bad, she could have said, he meant rape as defined by law in those conversations, but she didn’t. She actually told the jury and the public that he didn’t mean it that way. (And it did look bad for him because he was caught saying it on tape).

      • Rachel, re cell phones. Most in the courtroom are friends and family. Those with cell phones are media members with permission to tweet about the trial.

        The Judge has done a reasonable good job of maintaining order in her courtroom.

      • JA also says that when TA grabbed her by the arms, or pushed her to the floor, she didn’t consider that abuse because it didn’t hurt. Doesn’t make it “innocent abuse”.

      • Thank you MB. I appreciate it.

        I was just having the thought that, although no one has said so, people may be tired of my posts. Plus I thought i should really get a hobby. At this time, I’m home recovering from surgery on injuries I sustained from a hit and run Auto Accident, so hobbies are limited. 🙂 (Oh, I should clarify, I was the victim not the runner!)

        I really can’t find the words, despite my attempts, to fully describe how completely deplorable I find this trial, the media’s coverage of it, the behavior of Travis’ friends, the justification and acceptance of Travis’ behavior by so many, and the sheer ignorance that exists in our society that creates lynch mobs that harken back to the Salem Witch Trials.

        I am also fearful of the long term negative societal implications this will have. I fear more than ever, for the future of our most vulnerable citizens; women and children. Makes me want to scream, which is not healthy for my current condition. 🙂

        Thank you for what you and the rest of Team Jodi are doing. Keep up the good fight.

        • Oh gees TR, I hope your recovery goes well. This whole thing is quite sickening, there is no doubt about it, and I am shocked at most of what I am hearing. They’re downplaying EVERYTHING (sexual abuse, physical abuse, possible pedophilia issues, abuse of authority, etc.). If it helps, just know that we’re all here feeling that worry and disgust, and if need be, we can scream for you. I will never be sick of your posts. They are always enlightening. Get better!

          • Thanks so much for the well wishes Jess.

            You are so correct about the downplaying of serious these issues that directly relate to Jodi’s self defense against and attack by TA.

            Thanks for being willing to scream for me. Keep up the good fight for Truth and Justice!

  11. I know how vicious attacks get on other websites, but calling a two girl old a name like that, that is very sick. Some people just won’t accept that the family of someone who has committed a crime, are also victims, they did nothing wrong. I don’t know in this case, but in Casey’s case it was getting so bad, that at least one noose/somebody hanging from it, popped up on almost every page. The hate just gets worse and worse, and frankly I’m scared what is going to happen with the G Zimmerman case, the hate really will be out.

    • I agree Leah and what really scares me about that case is someone has already advertised a bounty. This is bad and LE hasn’t done anything about it.

    • Yeah, and that one goes to trial on June 10th. HLN will barely get a break after this trial before they start foaming at the mouth again.

    • I agree completely. Sociey is very sick. Makes you hold your kids just a little tighter, and protect them more fiercely. I am glad for this website, as it gives me hope that there are still reasonable people out there.

  12. A lot of people in article comments are still clinging to that ridiculous Cancun theory for premeditated murder. Have they considered that Travis knew by June 4th that Mimi did not want to date him? She had already told him that and they agreed to go as friends. So why would Travis tell Jodi “Sorry, I’m with Mimi now and we’re off to Cancun!”? He wouldn’t have.

    • well, he STILL wasn’t gonna take JODI. thats what they’d say…

      it CAN b a trigger point for a woman (or man), when something like that happens. but didn’t jodi know by then they were sorta seeing others?

      • The sex tape proves she wasn’t mad over it. Their relationship was “friends with benefits,” which isn’t unheard of.

    • The sex tape cleared that up anyway. Jodi knew about his Cancun trip and was looking forward to Travis going to northern California after the trip so they could travel in southern Oregon.

      • Here’s my biggest problem with this whole case. We all know after JA being on the stand for 16 days that she is no dummy. If she was premediting TA murder, than why would she do it in AZ – a death penalty state? Why not just wait for him to visit her after he came back from Cancun as he mentioned he intended to do on the taped call. Since he told everyone JA and him were done and she was just an annoying stalker no one suspect when he went missing or dead somewhere in CA that he was visiting JA. And in CA she would have been safe from the death penality. To me the Cancun trip and TA’s statment on the tape that he was coming to visit her after it blows the premeditation to kill him out of the water.

    • Yes Kira, and just to echo tonysam’s point; the sex tape debunked that theory WEEKS ago. They were making plans after the fact! So there’s NO REASON in the world to believe that Jodi was so jealous about the Cancun trip she attacked Travis. That’s just… stupid.

      I do not normally talk about my own experiences with abuse; it is still too painful – BUT I can honestly say that it is NOT a coincidence that Travis started getting seriously physically abusive around the time he developed an interest with Mimi.

        • I would have to agree, whoeheartedly. Also, it’s not at all unusual that his physical abuse was escalating as Jodi was separating more and more from him, had moved away, and was to the point of going on a trip to Utah on her own. He had to have known something was up with that. She was becoming very independent. He convinced her to stop by Mesa, but who knows how much he knew about what she was doing. He was losing control her her, and I believe he was fully aware of it. They will only give a victim so much rope … (pardon the pun).

          • Exactly! Lets also remember this girl could ruin his lie of a life. If she was sincere in the Mormon religion….she could even seek guidance and confess Travis’ behavior sexually.. and that could destroy him in the religion. From what I have read about it, the church would either dismiss him or punish him. Either way, he’d lose his “temple leader” stance.
            He had to keep close contact with her… keep her in check.

            • That could be part of it, but seeing as she was living in a different ward in another state, I’m honestly not so sure that would bother him as much as losing control over something he considered “his” possession to do with as he pleased. Then again, she was involved in PPL with all his friends, so on second thoughts, yeah, he couldn’t risk not having control over her. In fact, he may have even wanted to marry her off to someone else … didn’t one of his friends actually suggest the connection between her and Ryan Burns?

        • If you listen to the very beginning of their taped phone call where he asks her why she is going on her trip, what I hear if anything at all is him sounding insecure, and possibly jealous, but trying to sound like he’s not. I don’t know if anyone else can make this out, but that’s how it sounded to me.

  13. I’ve said it before, ill say it again.
    IF THEY BRING UP JODI MOST LIKELY SUFFERED A CONCUSSION after he slammed her onto TILE, this would EXPLAIN A LOT! the fog, spotty memory, etc.

    I’ve had at least 2 concussions. the symptoms are very SLY.
    u can suffer a concussion, BUT STILL function. almost like auto-pilot if no one around to say otherwise. even IF others around, u can seem ‘normal’.

    i HOPE perhaps an expert introduces this. I’m shocked, SHOCKED! that the defense has NOT.

    • If they bring this up – about having amnesia – then it could raise another question. What was a person with amnesia doing discarding a gun in the desert, washing bloody hands, and changing bloody clothes, after the amnesia had cleared up? She does remember all of this, after arriving in the desert. And, the pattern of behavior is actually the same as before the amnesia, when evidence was removed, or discarded, at the house.

      I think that the defense realizes that talking about this alleged “transition”, in the desert, could produce a series of doubts, because the same pattern of behavior continued, both before and after the “transition”. This may be why they do not want to talk about her amnesia.

      Suppose a person burglarizes a jewelry store. And, he removes jewelry from the store, which he later hides. But, when he is asked about the burglary itself, he says that he cannot remember, because of a memory problem. Then, he is asked why he hid the jewelry, after it was removed from the store? The obvious answer is because he knew that it was stolen. But, what if the burglar says, “Well, I did not know that it was stolen, until I saw the heist on the news, a few days later.” Then, the next question would be, “Well, if you did not know that the jewelry was stolen, then why were you hiding it????” In other words, the fact that the burglar was busy hiding the jewelry suggests that he knew that the jewelry was stolen. If this is where the prosecutor is at, with Ms. Arias, then I think that the jurors may pick up on it. And, this may be why the defense is leaving the subject alone.

      • It’s different though because she has blood all over her and there’s a gun in her car. In other words, she wouldn’t need to remember much to realize that something really bad had happened and get scared enough to toss the items. Your burglar has no trigger telling him he robbed a store. Now make your burglar come to with a gym bag full of jewelry and a gun in his hand, and I think he would be able to jump to the conclusion rather quickly, especially if his initial memories of entering the store with a weapon were in tact, as Jodi’s initial memories of being at TA’s house, and him slamming her down were in tact.
        Her coming to and realizing something scary and bad has happened, is actually more logical than your burglar.

  14. Why, after knowing Travis for that long would she just all of a sudden want to kill him? Did she wake up one morning with the road trip in her mind that she would veer off to Arizona to kill him? Did she decide she would be rather sloppy covering her tracks? I’ll just spend the day with him and then kill him? It doesn’t compute in my brain, no matter how hard I look at this I can’t see premeditation. What would have possibly have happened, minus that stupid trip, she would decide to kill him? If I had planned to go and kill someone, the last thing I would do is steal a gun from my grandparents, and borrow gas cans from a friend. Maybe I’m just stupid, but it just doesn’t make sense.

    • Yes. Just like you wouldn’t wake up one morning and decide it was a good day to kill your daughter.

      Team Jodi

    • they’ll say “all killers make mistakes” … that they don’t take into account the adrenaline, etc.
      thats what i always here in ID!!!

      but i So agree. HOW trax can u leave? come on.

    • Oh and use your crc to rent a car n make purchases along the way. And then KEEP the receipt. AND don’t forget get your nails done right before.

      • And just in case it’s still too hard for the cops to figure it out, make sure you pose in some really embarrassing nude photos with the date and time stamped on them and leave the camera and memory card behind, because you know, if the cops can’t figure it out, then you might have to stay free for the rest of your life and stuff, and you wouldn’t want that!
        Next thing you know, the motive will be that she purposely murdered him in order to purposely get caught so that she could be on 48 hours……twice…….for no money.

    • It doesn’t make sense. But, it also doesn’t make sense that Jodi – given the facts – would get on national television, and give the presentation that she gave. Out of 100 people, I cannot think of anyone who would have done that. And, she did.

      Also, I do not think that she was truly angry with him, or had truly been hurt by him, because she still shows to much love for him. There is more love than bitterness. People who are hurt badly, by others, tend to become bitter – even after the abuser is dead. I do not see her as being bitter against Travis.

      Also, when they get to the subject of the actual death, she can barely deal with it. In my opinion, I think that she is probably reliving the entire event, in vivid detail, with great regret.

      If we were talking about “normal” people, or a “normal” person, I do not think that any of this would have happened. In my opinion, much of it is outside the realm of “normal”.

      • “People who are hurt badly, by others, tend to become bitter – even after the abuser is dead. I do not see her as being bitter against Travis.”

        It does seem like Jodi takes up for travis a lot but to me that’s a symptom of being abused. I think it’s due to her not being treated for the abuse. She probably understands it intellectually but hasn’t felt it yet. I think she’s been in survival mode this entire time which would not give her time to sort through what felt like abuse and didn’t.

        About the interviews – I think she did sound angry or bitter when she made the statement, “mark my words, no jury will convict me”. They way she said it…

      • I know of a lot of people who *would* run to the media actually. People seem to still believe they are fair. I happen to know better. I don’t think Jodi did.

  15. Excellent. He has said what I have been saying all along.

    If that jury somehow loses its marbles and actually buys the prosecution’s nonsense narrative, it will be they almost certainly were watching the media reports, and the conviction should be thrown out on appeal.

      • I’m actually really concerned about that. I don’t understand how a non-sequestered jury is going to have, what is it now……..6 days off from jury duty and not see or hear anything about the case? How is that even possible? I don’t think it is.

  16. I don’t understand why some things haven’t been brought out, but I hope Nurmi will do so at some stage.

    1. The fact that Jodi filled the gas cans in Salt Lake on her way back to Yreka shows that she had genuine concerns about the gas/desert situation. Remember she has no reason to hide this part of the trip. That can then answer why she had the gas cans in the first place.

    2. So now we have this third charge at the station in SLC. I worked at a small retail store when I was in grad school. The cash register would keep a duplicate of the customer receipt on a separate roll of tape. When the spool was done we would store them in the back. The owner told us that he had to keep the tapes going back at least 5 years for the IRS. If so the gas station should have the roll for June 2008. Why hasn’t someone checked to see what the 19.65 charge is for? If it s for gas then I can’t believe JM hasn’t thrown it on the table to show there was an extra 5 gallons of gas bought. If it wasn’t for gas, but something else then Nurmi should get it and put it out there.

    3. Matt McCartney: What’s the scoop here. If Jodi claims he saw the bruises and he has acknowledged that in public why isn’t someone getting him up on the stand. If he has told Flores something different then JM should have put him on the stand. If not then Nurmi should. It really doesn’t matter if he has other issues. So does every jail house snitch.

    • There are lots and lots of lonely stretches of road on that trip. It doesn’t matter which way she went. I didn’t catch which way she went back home, but I assume she went on I-80 west from SLC to Reno and then the “shortcut” by driving on highway 395 north through Susanville, California, and cut through the Lassen National Forest via highways 44 and 89 to hit I-5 at Mount Shasta City going north to Yreka. The alternative route would be if she went on Highway 50 from Utah to Reno, Nevada, which is legendary for being the “loneliest highway” in the United States and north from US highway 395 and through 44 and 89 to I-5 north. I have been on all of those roads, especially highways 89 and 44 in California, and you don’t want to be stranded there. You don’t want to be stranded on Highway 50, or I80, either. I don’t think she took I-80 to Sacramento and went north on I5 because that would be wasting many, many more hours than taking 395 north to Susanville, etc.

      The point is she was wise to have gas cans just in case. I never did because I never thought of taking them all of the years I went north from Reno to southern Oregon and back.

    • I picked up on your number one last night also and wondered if anyone else had picked up on the fact that Jodi filled up cans for extra gas on the way home from Salt Lake. This to me is monumental.

    • Jodi said on the stand recently that Matt was once an ally, insinuating he is no longer?? Does anyone know if he is on the witness list for either side?

  17. What is Jodi’s explanation for the 3rd transaction at Tesoro in SLC that according to the prosecutor came to 5.09 gallons of gas ?

    • No ones asked her. Martinez used a hypothetical like if you take the charge and divide it into the cost of gas you get close to 5 gallons? Right (yes or no)

      And her answer to that question was something like (if the math says so yes).

      The next question should be, well was that charge for gas?

      But of course that wasn’t asked. So all we are left with is inuendo.

    • Well, really if you think about it there is no way it could have been for gas. Jodi would have kept the receipt if it was for gas. She wanted the gas receipts for tax deduction purposes. She kept the receipt for the filling of the two gas cans. So why wouldn’t she keep the receipt if there was a 3rd can? Remember, at the time she wouldn’t have known there would be this big issue of a third gas can years later. So it would make no sense to say she’s hiding or throwing away a gas receipt, because at the time there would have been no reason to think that. But she did keep the receipt for the 2 gas cans. Why would she keep the receipt for the 2 cans and not the third? Answer: There wasn’t a third gas can.

      • 🙂 Good point.
        I’m sure that the ‘TORCHERS’ crowd such as NG would explain that the nonexisting third can had to be concealed because it was the one gas can that was meant and labeled to ‘premeditate the torching of untorched Travis’ while the other two cans yes were just for the road trip, so she should be convicted on premeditation anyway even if she did not torch anything with the pre-dedicated gas can.

      • I think this is a great point. When looking at her actions through the lens of what happened, things can look way more suspicious. She admitted to having two gas cans so why lie about a third? It’s not like three suddenly tips the scales!

  18. I was reading all this about sequestering the jury. So I got to thinking is there a possible good side to not sequestering the jury and maybe have some of them access the internet. So on the glass half full side maybe one or more of them will read something about 25 ACP bullets and their lack of power, or people with gun shots to the head functioning after the fact, or domestic violence, or sexual predation, or PTSD and the fact that it is not related to just combat but any traumatic event, or the fact that people can repress memories, sometimes for years, or the way victims of abuse will deny it and continue to defend the abuser (just as Jodi seems to continue to do) or any one of the myriad of other mitigating circumstances in this case.

    Hey, some of them may even find this page, and we may get through to one or more of those folks. I don’t think the haters can sway anyone who is not already leaning that way.

  19. I need your opinion. I am interested in knowing your perception of this text:

    “If you can master the art of public speaking and story telling… if you can learn to move the hearts and minds of your audience, with authenticity and integrity, you can write your own checks in this business.”

    • My interpretation of this is, if you’re proficient at lying, you can make a lot of money off the people you’re lying to.

    • Thank you both of you

      Now, I do not want to hurt someones feelings nor do I want to being insensitive or disrespectful.

      According to this site, where the cover of the Time Magazine shows a photoshopped Travis cover – without any remarks that the cover is a fake. At first I got the impression that Travis made it to Times cover for real. I find this cover very misleading but in the same time it makes sense with Travis friends interviews that described him as succesful and a rising star in the field of a business where one can only needs to be a…….. mastermind.
      This is my understanding.

      “If you can master the art of public speaking and story telling… if you can learn to move the hearts and minds of your audience, with authenticity and integrity, you can write your own checks in this business.”

      Most jobs give us kind of a mechanical use in everyday life, the skills acquired through the exercise of a profession. It is hard, specially with trainings as salesman to draw a line every day and define the profesional and private enviroments. Also being under training, one would overdo things even with friends, family, girlfriend, etc.

      Could Travis master the art of public speach and story telling? Checked.
      Could Travis move hearts and minds? Checked.
      Could Travis display authenticity and integrity? Checked.

      And so Jodi was written on the check as a sex toy.

      • I have to add that Jodi before meeting Travis, she had a low self esteem and that became a bigger issue during her relation with Travis, she worked as a waitress, long hours, 2 jobs and no money leftovers after paying the bills. She was in a few long-term monogamous relationships, with little or no conflicts.

        Jodi wanted a family. Her own family. She wanted to be a wife, a mother, a friend, and a provider for her family. She always had decent and respectable jobs. All of a sudden she accepts to be a girlfriend that gets paid to clean up in the house, to be used as a sextoy stress relief, disrespected and humiliated by her own bf and his friends.

        She met Travis. She became a mormon in a very short periode of time. She seems to agree somehow to a different kind of relation than she had in past. In brief: she seemed to be mind controlled.

        • She even appeared to be mind controlled for a couple years after she killed Travis. She seemed totally zombiefied in her media interviews and with the interview with the detective.

        • And other from the group also looked zombified, i.e in the video of Travis the leader with attractive Jodi across his lap nonchalantly telling his tall tale while all others are listening, nodding and admiring.
          Same impression in the ‘motivation’ video when he is wearing the wig, looking totally ridiculous, and yet the troops (many young women giggling with excitement) are captivated by his talk.
          It looks like they also had been recruited into the group and zombified already, but that Jodi like you said was selected as the preferred sex toy.

          • Absolutely NO offense to Mormons is meant by this … but the Christmas before last, my boyfriend and I went by the Mormon temple near DC where they have this fabulous display and amazing lights. And well, the folks who greeted us and offered us literature … they were all in that sort of zombie mind-control state as well. It really freaked us out. One girl’s face looked bad as if someone had just beat the living crap out of her. It was soooo weird.

        • You put this perfectly. This has been boggling my mind. Here’s Travis who obviously is good at lying to people to get them into this Prepaid Legal scam. Only 30 yrs old and going on all of these trips! That seemed to be his life. Trips cost money. Or maybe he was also smart with tax write offs. Just mention Prepaid legal and you can write it off as a business expense. He wasn’t quite in the 100,000 club to get that ring…but he made around 90,000 that year they said. Why on earth would he need to borrow money from a waitress if you made 90,000!!!??? It’s like using someone who has less than you so you can have more.
          Yet…here was Jodi who as you said worked long hours as a waitress. Making an honest living….She’s pulled into his life and he uses her to clean his house, to repay a loan of her buying his junk car. He probably even sold it to her for far more than he would have gotten selling it outright. He’s using her to fulfill his twisted sex fantasies..etc. All he did was use her and treat her like she was beneath him.
          He was just good at using people to get what he wanted.

  20. To all the posts….wow this is definitely a thinking group. Excellents points made. I never even caught that the prosecutor didn’t ask her what that $19 sale was. It could have been $19 worth of snacks! Also, the person who posted about stores keep a detail tape. Yes they do. After each person’s shift…they pull that tape and date it. They don’t do that just for the FBI. They also do it for each employee…. in case of employee theft. I use to be a store manager.

    • And another thing. The prosecutor said “Would it surprise you that Walmart has no record of a gas can being returned that day?” First of all he never said positively that Walmart didn’t have a record of it.. he said “would it surprise you”……..and secondly she should have asked him “Where’s your proof of this?” lol

      • Unfortunately, she’s not allowed to ask the great prosecutor, Mr. Martinez (as the weirdo calls himself) questions, though!

  21. Thats such a great article! !! Gived me more hope and wish that at least ONE juror is strong enough to stick up for jodi and the law.

  22. In reply to Ben above:

    I think there’s more to that day than just the dropping of the camera. Remember it started in his office when he couldn’t view the pictures on the CD. That led to TA, and not to put too fine a point on it, bending her over the desk and RAPING her. She testified that she then cleaned up and once again took him upstairs because sex calmed him down. So we already have one instance of rage followed by violence (I’ assuming that bending someone over a desk, pulling down their pants and essentially raping them counts as violence, but what do I know).

    The last picture of him staring into the camera is not the image of a calm man. That looks angry to me, but again what do I know from angry.

    What’s with the duct tape around his arm? That’s just a BTW

    Lastly cameras don’t just drop out of one’s hands. Something makes that happen. Did he try grab the camera and did that make it fall? Did Jodi make a comment about one of the pictures that made him madder than he already was. Not to stretch this too far, but apparently the reason for taking these shower pictures was to show off his body. Most of them are from the waist up with him stretching that will hide flab, but the last one with him sitting in the shower, shows the love handles. Did she make some comment about that? That would set a narcissistic person off.

    On the other hand if he was on steroids as some have suggested anything could set off a ‘roid rage.

      • No he wasn’t tested by anything other than what is considered drugs of abuse-opiates are heroin, morphine, codeine, hydrocodone, cocaine, methamphetamines- crystal meth, benzodiapenes- valium, xanax, barbituates-sediatitves. In laboratory testing only substances tested for are found. Autopsies don’t usually test for other substances unless there is reason to. They did not in this case so we will never know if he was taking other types of substances.

    • The duct tape on his arm was some little gizmo he wore that monitored his body for weight loss. Jodi spoke about that in court.

      • Yes, she said he wore a Body Bugg as a diet aid to count calories. It looks like one on his right arm in his naked photo.

        However, in the evidence photos, there’s a piece of tape on the bathroom floor that definitely looks like duct tape. Don’t know if this has any bearing on it, but here’s an interesting article on “Duct Tape Analogy for Chastity”

    • Al
      In answer to your question, seems to me you know a lot. Yet another instance of Rape/violence. This time in the office.
      I’m wondering if they still have any specimens left that they could still test for steroids? (I don’t know if a blood or body fluid specimen would even be kept this long or be viable at this point.

    • Thanks for responding,

      The thing is, we can only believe that the first part is true, if we assume that Jodi is telling the truth. But, now that you bring it up, this is another example of the type of thing that I do not find to be very well fitted. He could not view CDs. So, he becomes angry and rapes Jodi. I don’t know. I don’t see these two scenarios as dovetailing very well. Normally, men want to have sex, because men want to have sex. It is not like men want to have sex because something they got a flat tire. As a male, I think that this description seems a little “weird”, maybe even somewhat improbable.

      Also, now that I have thought about it further, I can see that Travis may have been angry, in the last face shot, in the shower. Or, he may have been emotional. I think that his eyes look a bit red, and maybe even puffy. So, maybe something else was going on that Jodi is not telling us.

      Also, I do not think that we know that the camera ever “fell”. We know that Jodi says that the camera fell. And, we know that the camera was still working after Travis was dead. But, do we know that the camera actually fell from Jodi’s hands? If the camera did not ever fall from her hands, then either Travis did not launch the attack as Jodi claims, or he launched an attack for some other reason.

      Also, the problem with the shower shoots – or any similar shoots – is that Travis is supposed to be a Mormon, keeping the law of chastity. Given his social circle, it would be hugely damaging if the shower shots had ever become known as the work of Jodi Arias.

      I don’t know. If I was a juror, I would probably have an immense list of questions, by this point, in the trial.

      • Rape and sex are not the same thing. You really can’t view this from the viewpoint of a normal person who has normal relationships because Jodi/Travis was not a normal relationship.

    • “Did he try grab the camera and did that make it fall?”

      I have wondered this myself. The last picture she took of him, IMO he looks mad. I don’t know, I guess people will see different things in the photo; but he looks pissed off to me. I almost expected her to testify that he he knocked it out of her hands.

      • That picture. His expression is not neutral or relaxed. It’s either a pose–sexy-smouldering–or it’s smouldering-angry. There’s no surprise in it; no sadness. His eyebrows are pulled down and straight across and his mouth is closed and hard.

        I don’t think this is completely junk-science, analyzing facial expressions. We can be mistaken, sure, but it’s our social intelligence that helps us to understand what others are feeling by their faces. I agree, MB, that he looks angry, pissed-off.

        What ever happened, it probably started to happen while she was taking pictures. There was a trigger, but it may have not been a sudden one. There may have been some back-and-forth before it escalated into physical violence.

        • My ex-husband used that sort of look when he was trying to be sexy. I’ve seen other abusive men do the same (in pictures their wives and exes have shown me.) Perhaps to a freaking narcissistic psychopath, that’s a manly sexy look?

          • I took this oneline test and you had to guess what the person was feeling by looking at their eyes. It was a really interesting test. Anyway, the didn’t show the entire face of the person. Just their eyes. And I did well on that test. So, I covered the rest of travis face, so that i was only looking at his eyes. I see intent, or calm and focused as the primary emotions/feelings. If your bored or curious, I’m curious to see if your opinion changes when you cover the rest of his face and just try and see his emotions by the way his eye looks.

            • JC–that’s the way I looked at that photo of Travis: first I covered most of his face, and looked only at his eyes. Then, I covered his eyes, to look at the mouth and the rest of his face. Then, his whole face.

              You think he looks calm and focussed? Or intent? Perhaps you are better than most in reading faces.

              But, I guess the problem for all of us is that we know that something terrible happened after that photo was taken. You can’t un-know what you know. I’d like to hear the opinion of someone who knows nothing about this case, and who has never seen Travis before. That would be interesting!

              • Me too! Good idea. But Pique? what was your perception when you covered his eyes. I don’t remember reading that post and I want to know what you saw? I’m no expert. I’m curious and only just became interest in this aspect:-)

                • When I covered his eyes? Well, just that his face is “set”–you know, there’s no animation in it–and that his mouth is closed and hard. That’s why I was thinking “well, it’s a pose” but also, “he could be becoming angry.”

                  I do think, when it comes to faces, that the mouth is as expressive as the eyes/eyebrows. His mouth is more relaxed, softer, in the other poses where he isn’t looking at the photographer.

                  Sigh. I don’t know. But, I do see a face that is somehow closed–that’s not open in any way that could be interpreted as a vulnerable emotion.

                • Awesome analysis! I can see vulnerable now that you say it and irritated. Some people see terror and I don’t see that at all. The eyebrows are perplexing. I think i can see this through everyone else’s eyes too. Interesting. Like you said before, it would be fun to pour over pictures in a room together!

                • Okay, so all those years I was with my ex, and there was something I never noticed. A friend that I reconnected with and was able to talk to by phone as he worked nights was looking through my FB pictures and noticed this first: That my ex’s eyes were never expressing what was really going on. That they were dead holes. His face could be VERY expressive. Well, a few months later, my ex really makes an attempt to kill me and is arrested. He gets out on bond a couple of days later and goes straight to one of the mistress’s house. And the following day, he’s living it up at a party with his mistress. I knew who she was and was very concerned for her safety. I told a friend of mine who somehow managed to friend her on FB. (Now, I know I sound like some sort of stalker saying this, but my friend did this without my knowledge.) Apparently, the mistress posted pictures of her and him together, first, at a party in a restaurant. And a few days later, she posted pictures of them together at a party at her place for a little housewarming thing she threw since he had moved in with her. (This was all occurring within a couple of weeks of his arrest, by the way, while he turned off water in the house, stole the business which was my only source of income, and looted everything he could from my bank accounts and charged to my credit cards. He was such a winner!)

                  So, my friend told me about the pictures and I asked to see them. My first thought was that he looked so happy with her in ways he had never looked with me. I actually thought perhaps it was all my fault. Perhaps he abused me because I made him unhappy (after all, he’d told me that enough times over the years). I felt sad, but also happy, that maybe he had now found the woman who would actually make him happy. But something still bothered me … I just couldn’t put my finger on it.

                  Painfully, I dug out the old photo albums from 13 years before and started comparing photos of us then and the 3 photos of them my friend had emailed me. And that’s when I realized something I’d never noticed before. For one thing, he rarely smiled in photos (much like Travis Alexander and multiple other abusers — check it out). On the few occasions that he did smile, his mouth smiled, the skin around his eyes smiled, his forehead smiled. But damn it, his eyes never did. I took the photos in Photoshop and blacked out everything BUT his eyes. I also took old photos of us and did the same. And there it was, right in front of my eyes. A certain darkness, devoid of empathy, devoid of conscience, cold eyes, hard eyes. His expression in the rest of his face was perfect. But his eyes weren’t feeling what his face said he was.

                  If you have never seen this, you just don’t notice it. Your mind doesn’t make sense of it. But once you see it, you can always see it in any other person who has it. Having looked at countless photos of abusers since then sent to me by the women they abused, I see it every single time.

                  I saw my ex only once after that in criminal court. He was staring me down as I was in the back of the court room. I was trying not to look at him, but I did glance up once quickly. He was amused, but there were those cold eyes. The prosecutor called me up during the hearing, briefly. As I went to walk away, he made sure to cross my path. Our eyes met, only for a brief second, and he held up his fist to me. And there were those cold eyes.

                  Now, take a look at Travis Alexander in that shower photo again. Forget everything but his eyes. Then, look at EVERY other photo of him you can find on Google, alone or with Jodi. Again, don’t look at ANYTHING but his eyes. Keep looking. Look from photo to photo to photo, only looking at his eyes. You will see it. His eyes are ALWAYS like that. It doesn’t matter what setting he’s in. It doesn’t matter who he’s with, or what he’s doing. It’s always there.

                  And once you’ve seen it, you will see it for the rest of your life in any person who is like that. You will learn to look people in the eyes. You will learn not to have your mind tricked by their facial expressions, words, anything. Trust me on this! This is something we should all know. It’s something children should be taught too. I had always heard the eyes are the window to the soul. Now, I know it’s true.

                • That’s fascinating, AA, the way the camera captured that certain something–or that certain nothing–in your ex’s eyes. I know we should be careful about throwing around psychological terms (look at what the media is doing right now, with this case!) but your ex really does sound sociopathic. Showing you his fist in court? That just gave me shivers.

                  I haven’t been involved with men who have sociopathic traits, but I’ve known 2 with malignant narcissistic traits. Unforgettable. Something you wrote really struck me:

                  “So, my friend told me about the pictures and I asked to see them. My first thought was that he looked so happy with her in ways he had never looked with me. I actually thought perhaps it was all my fault. Perhaps he abused me because I made him unhappy (after all, he’d told me that enough times over the years).”

                  I know EXACTLY what you’re talking about here. One thing I’ve learned is that a lot of abusers don’t fit that profile of never letting go of their victims–of being controlling stalker-types. When they are done with you, they’re really done, whether you’re the one to break it off or not. They move on to the next adventure quite easily. And, they look happy when they do it! In their minds, you ARE the problem they’ve left behind. It takes time for their inner-tension to build up in the new relationship (and this new woman is a foil for your supposed deficiencies) so it really does seem like it must have been you who had “the problem.” And you can bet that the new girlfriend believes this, too!

                  I think it was you who mentioned the Lundy Bancroft book? I read that, too, but the one book that really explained things so well for me–how the victim always appears to be crazier than the predator–is called “Stalking the Soul.” It’s out of print, but I was lucky to find a used copy. My hands shook while I was reading it!


      • The first time I saw that photo, I got the impression that he was in that “split second, just before exploding” mode. Kind of like a “WTF did you just say to me?” type look , I didn’t see calm and I definitely didn’t see sexy. Just scary to me.

  23. I just watched Day 3 of the trial. I can’t rationalize the ME saying Travis would be almost immediately incapacitated by the bullet in his brain with Jodie’s events. If she used the knife first, why didn’t she just say that? 🙁 It could still be self-defense?! She may still be innocent of pre-med if she used the knife first, but I just don’t understand why she would lie about that. I just don’t get it. 🙁

    • That’s not true. It was a .25 cal gun. I’ve talked with my significant other about this case and he mentioned that a 25 cal gun doesn’t do anything. He told me a story about a guy in the news that got shot 4 times with a 25 cal gun and beat up his shooter almost to the point of killing him. So don’t think that’s an accurate assessment from the ME.

        • You can also find stories all over the internet saying this idea that a 9mm as an ineffective firearm is not true at all. There is a cop blog somewhere I read awhile back you can google where a bunch of police officers were discussing this topic and saying that 9mms can be ineffective depending on shot placement but the same is true for a 357 or 45. It said overall the only place a 9mm is ineffective is on the internet. They were even joking saying that no one they had shot and killed with a 9mm had come back from the dead to their knowledge. They were also discussing how the 9mm is the gun of choice of many gang members.

          But you can also google on youtube medical examiners discussing 9mm gunshot wounds to head. They back up a lot of what Kevin Horn said. I found him to be pretty credible myself.

    • We went over and over this on previous posts, why it was possible he wasn’t incapacitated by this. Also ME and Flores changed their stories about the sequence of wounds. To me it sounds more like premed by admitting gunshot first. My husband is a pretty big man, no way would I attempt to stab him first if I was thinking along those lines.

      • Can you please summarize your findings? I can’t find them. 🙁 I really want to know more about this.

        • From personal experience working in an inner city trauma center and working with some well known pathologists, I don’t believe the ME. ME stated expanding gases causing concussion effect. However no expanding gases entered his brain because the gases come from the proplusion of the bullet and dissipate rapildly. No soot or gunshot residue was found around the bullet entrance. In order for gasses to enter the brain, the gun would have to be much closer to the entrance and gunshot residue would be found not only around the wound but also in the brain itself. Gunshot residue would still be seen in the brain even if the brain was decomposed. As to the small amount of blood seen in the cranial cavity-My theory-path of the gunshot wound went through the sinuses and ended in his cheek, so it is possible the blood drained out the nose and down the throat, hense the coughing blood splatter around the sink. Ever have a cold and the mucus draining down your throat? The coughing blood splatter around the sink did not come from the stab wound in the stomach. None of these stab wounds punctured the lungs. The blood from those stab wounds would drain internally in the abdominal cavity or out the wounds themselves. Also according to the autopsy report the entrance wound was only 1/8th of an inch in diameter. Look at a tape measure-very small hole.
          I have seen personally cases where people have come into the er with bullet wounds to the head and are alive and awake and have survived. How much brain damage depends on path of bullet. People do survive gunshot wounds to the head depending what part of the brain is damaged. Back in the day they would lobotomize mentally ill patients in order to control them better.

          • Also I have searched and searched for the x-ray pics to show the hole in the skull that the bullet made-can’t find any. This could mean the bullet never went through the brain at all. Hmmmm. This makes me suspicious, it could be possible the skull deflected the bullet through the sinsuses. Where the bullet ended up looks like it is in front of the cheek bone but there is not hole in the cheek bone.

            • Yes TB! the autopsy report was hard to read and actually determine if there was a bonafide entrance hole with penetration into the skull.

            • This is good info TB. Iv asked this Q but havent read an answer. Experienced in a trauma ctr, maybe you can. When a person is shot like this, with a small .25, about how long would it take for blood to come out of THIS area??? In one part of the testimony Jodi said she didn’t see blood (from the shot). Can it be possible that he didnt bleed through this area for a while? Or even at all, idk. Im guessing with all the stab wounds n the slit throat, especially after the slit throat, blood would stop circulating to that area. Idk Do I make sense????

              • LC,

                Bullet entry wounds from hard bullets are notoriously poor bleeders. It’s normally the exit wound that bleeds like crazy. However in the case of cranial wounds even a minor cut can bleed like crazy. TA had a bunch of cuts on his head so the blood on the head could be from anywhere.

                It is quite possible that Jodi saw no blood immediately after the shot. However based on the autopsy report the bullet went right behind his nasal area, which may be the cause of the exhaled blood spatter at the sink

                • This could be a stupid question, but would the fact that Travis was still wet from the shower have changed anything with the blood? How about if the shower was still running when he got back into it (whether he got back in or someone put him back in)?

              • Could have started to bleed immediately, but it was going down his throat. so not noticed right away and then JA blacks out after the lunge by TA. Could have hit her head again. And we have to remember events happened very fast and not much time to think or notice anything. I noticed on the autopsy report, the stomach contents were not checked for blood and I think they should have been.

              • And decomposition of the brain wouldn’t allow for 100% certainty that it passed through the brain. I think this was a big point of contention between the defense and the ME.

          • “No soot or gunshot residue was found around the bullet entrance.”

            But doesn’t that prove that JA did NOT shoot TA when he lunged at her?? According to Jody’s story the gun “went off” in close proximity to Travis’ head as he was attacking her. What explains the lack of gunshot residue? This is worrisome to me…..

      • “To me it sounds more like premed by admitting gunshot first.”

        I understand what you mean, TB. That, if planned, she would think to use a weapon that would overpower him quickly–a gun.

        One reason she may be lying about using the gun first, though, is that she can then distance herself from the killing by saying it began accidentally. I.e., “I didn’t mean it … I just wanted to threaten him to make him to stop … I pointed the gun and it just went off.”

        Guns DO go off accidentally–all the time. Knives don’t. There is nothing accidental about stabbing someone. So, she says that this gun, which went off accidentally, didn’t stop him. Now she’s allowed to defend herself in earnest, by picking up the knife.

    • “I can’t rationalize the ME saying Travis would be almost immediately incapacitated by the bullet in his brain with Jodie’s events.”

      I can’t either. I’d have to hear a convincing argument, from another experienced medical examiner, that Travis could’ve continued attacking Jodi after that type of gunshot wound. It just doesn’t sound possible that Travis would’ve formulated the words “kill you, bitch” after taking a bullet to his frontal lobe.

      • “It just doesn’t sound possible that Travis would’ve formulated the words “kill you, bitch” after taking a bullet to his frontal lobe.”

        I can kinda see that, but I will say that it was a traumatic time and she could have the order of when he said it a bit off. The problem is that people are looking for any tiny way to catch her in a evidenced by the gas can fiasco.

        likewaise, if she tried to remember the stabbing part and it didn’t fit their version, they would crucify her over that too.

        • I can. I can see him mumbling, “kill you bitch” he was aleary shot. Thats probably the reason he couldn’t get the whole statement, “IM GOING TO kill you bitch”

          • Yeah LC, I can see that too! That’s why I don’t think the order of where that statement is should be so important.

            He could have been grunting that out.

        • “I can kinda see that, but I will say that it was a traumatic time and she could have the order of when he said it a bit off.”

          That’s true, BeeCee, and it makes complete sense that in a traumatic situation like that everything would seem to be happening simultaneously. Who could account for every split second? I sure couldn’t!

          But, to justify the stabbings after the gunshot wound, we have to be able to believe that Travis continued to threaten her life AFTER he was shot. Jodi is trying to provide evidence that he continued to be a threat, by testifying that he both tackled her physically and uttered a threat. So, I don’t think that she’s just mixed up when she places the verbal threat as coming after the gunshot. It’s an important part of her defense that he threatened her at that exact point. In my opinion, it’s not a tiny detail.

          Of course, the argument could be that she was, due to mortal terror, mixed up about everything that happened in the seconds before and after the gunshot. That she perceived he was still a threat to her, when in fact, he was thrashing around reflexively because he had been shot in the head. OK. But, remember, that there’s other evidence that he wasn’t shot first: no blood in the brain, defensive wounds to his hands, and a bullet casing on top of blood. That’s too many details to have to explain away when there is a simpler explanation.

          • Isn’t it wierd and iv bern thinking about this…. jodi said she didn’t see blood when she shot him. Would blood start coming out as soom as the shot went in or does it take a few seconds, minutes? ??? Maybe thats a stupid question, but iv never shot anything so idk.

            • What makes absolutely NO sense to me whatsoever is that according to Kermit, after she stabbed him in the heart (or close to it), the back, and then slit his throat (which they all seem to agree was the act that killed him), she THEN shot him with a piddly little gun that wouldn’t have done much damage in the first place? Now THAT, to me, is incredibly crazy-sounding.

              • Also the shot after the throat doesn’t make sense to me. If she shot him when he was on the floor, then she would have to be on the floor also for the path of the bullet to make sense. Shooting him in the shower afterwords, doesn’t make sense either since the side of the forward where the entrance wound was is toward the back of the shower. If I were Nurmi I would somehow force shorty into coming up with a reasonable explanation for the gunshot last scenario.

                • Excellent point, TB. Gosh, there are just so many things that don’t quite add up. I wonder if Nurmi will call his own witness about this. I need to review what I have of the defense witness list again.

      • Google Phineas Gage. He took a metal rod through his frontal lobe and survived. Here is a breif sum up. We can’t know what Travis would have been capable of.

        The accident happened on September 13, 1848. Gage, a foreman at a railroad construction site, absentmindedly pounded his tamping rod into a hole filled with blasting powder. The explosives blew the 43-inch-long rod upward and completely through Gage’s head, landing with a thud about 30 yards away.

        Gage was taken to the town doctor, John Harlow, who plugged the holes in Gage’s skull and kept him under observation. Amazingly, he was alive, fully conscious, and except for the loss of one eye, experienced no lasting physical handicaps. He was, however, “mentally greatly changed,” as noted on the plaque. “Once an efficient and capable foreman, he was now increasingly erratic, irritable, and profane.”

          • Yes, by using the expanding gases from the gunshot, but I’ve explained why I find that hard to believe. I thought he was having a hard time explaining it. And erratic, irritable, and profane does show that damage was done to the frontal lobe of the brain.

    • LIke some others, in my opinion, using the knife first would be like jumping into the lion’s cage, at the zoo, and fighting, by hand. It would be immensely risky. It could easily backfire. Plus, out of 27 wounds, maybe only 2 were actually lethal. That is not a good sign, for trying to win in a knife fight.

      Using an underpowered gun seems unlikely. But, ditching the gun for the knife seems even more unlikely – unless the gun did nothing to deter the person. For example, let’s say that Jodi pulled the gun, and shot Travis, as he exited the shower. Then – if Travis still had it all together – he could easily say, “Bitch, I am going to kill you!” This is possible because people do frequently survive .25 shots, quite well. I could see Travis saying, “Bitch, I am going to kill you!!”, in this scenario. It is more easy to believe than to think that he said this simply because she dropped his camera. Also, this is the one of the problems with people who are habitual liars. They constantly will dovetail fact, and fiction. So, by the end, the hearer has almost no possible way to sort out which part was true, and which part was fabricated. Sometimes, it is only when everything is written down that a person can start pinpointing the discrepancies, in order to get an idea of which parts were fabricated. Anyway, if she did shoot Travis with the .25, upon exiting the shower, then he may have looked at his wound, in the mirror, and then went after her. If so, she could have dropped the gun, and used the knife on him, in the hallway. By the way, I think it is noteworthy that two weapons were used, and not one.

      Also, it would be very easy for Jodi to cry everytime she talks about the killing, because whatever happened was obviously very traumatic. But, given past history, just because she cries, that does not mean that whatever she says is actually true. She could think one thing, but say another.

      To give an example, when the actual killing is discussed, she oftentimes turns ashen white. Her eyes glaze over. She looks transfixed. Then, her face quivers. And, she begins to look as though she is pierced through with horrible pain. She will even cover her face, and cry uncontrollably. But, what she says, verbally, is that she “does not remember”. I think that Martinez is convinced that she does remember, and I think he believes that certain things – like photos – act as a trigger, for such excruciating memories.

      Anyway, this is all very sad.

      • I’m pretty sure her testimony was that he said “kill you bitch” after he was shot, not after she dropped the camera.

      • ‘It is more easy to believe than to think that he said this simply because she dropped his camera.”

        He didn’t say “Bitch, I am going to kill you!!” after Jodi dropped the camera. Jodi said he something to the effect of “you f—king idiot, a five year old could hold a camera better than you”

      • Sorry Dog, but my husband hunts, during these economic times it helps to put food on the table. But I still don’t liike Chris Hughes, Dave Hall and their rabid pack of hyenas.

        • BOMBSHELL!

          Here are the regulations for hunting coyotes. You MUST have a license!!

          “Coyotes are classified as predators and have an open, year-round hunting season. A valid license is required, except in a case where livestock has been killed.”

          And, you cannot just get a hunting license if you aren’t an Arizona resident:

          Nonresident Hunting-Fishing License, Regulations and Nonpermit -tag Order Form

          “Nonresidents of Arizona may use this form to order hunting and fishing licenses, special use stamps, non-permit hunt tags, regulations and books through the mail. This form must be submitted separately to the Arizona Game and Fish Department. The form cannot be submitted with hunt-permit tag applications.”

          Shall we report Mr. Hughes?? It would be nice for him to be in the same jail as Jodi! 🙂

          OH, and if any of Chris Hughes friends are reading this, don’t bother deleting his post on FB, I have captured a screen shot of it!

          • He made this comment on one of his dead coyote pics..

            Dave Hall – @Judy I don’t expect u to understand it. I realize to many that this looks cruel. Coyotes have no predators in the wild. Their populations get way to big and to survive they kill off way to many baby deer, elk and ranchers livestock. The Gov reimburses ranchers for lost cattle with your tax dollars. But the deer and elk are gone for future sportsmen to feed their families. The Gov pays me $50 for every coyote I shoot which is a lot less then what they have to pay a rancher for 1 baby cow. I am a registered predator control specialist for the state. There is a certification class and test required to become such. This is not just a case of random animal killing. Keeping nature in balance prevents diseases and keeps all animals healthier. Again, I don’t expect u to understand, it’s a hunter thing:)
            December 2, 2012 at 10:30am via mobile

          • LOL. Have no doubt the friends are on here. I suspect they are actually making comments directly related to my posts about TA being a rapist. Still defending his behavior and confession of rape as, good sex fantasy…ewwwww.

        • Hunting for food is one thing, hunting just because you feel like killing something is another. Dave Hall is not killing coyotes to eat them, he actually makes several comments about getting paid $50 a head for each coyote he kills.

      • LOL. I still can’t help but think, as I’ve said before, this guy gave Travis the gun. Travis wanted one of his very own after going to the shooting range, and this guy gave him one he didn’t like so much. .25 caliber not as much fun as the big guns! Can here him saying, Travis you can have this one, but don’t tell anyone I gave it to you.

          • If he did have this gun and he’s a resident of AZ it would be registered, or at least his background check for getting the gun..

            Just a thought.

        • Exactly. And now that it’s been used in a murder, he doesn’t have the guts to come forward and admit he gave it to TA.

          Secondly, TA’s buddies have so much hatred toward Jodi that I’m sure they would never come forward with evidence that could prove she is telling the truth.

      • Don’t like hunters either. I understand the purpose, but I just never will AND my grandfather was a hunter and I loved him dearly.

          • I cant get over this bs!!! Really, wtf makes him think he can get away with this??? Oh, I know…. because the judge didnt do shit about Chris n Sky talking to everyone, now this fatass knows he’ll get away with it too!!!! I wish he’s accidentally shoot himself!

            Im hoping Mrs Wilmont does something, I saw her pushing at Nurmi to object a few times when Martinez was getting out of line with Jodi. So, I think its better to send it to HER. She’ll push Nurmi to speak up.

    • Great screencap! I love how his friends are even telling him to shut up and stop attention whoring on Facebook.

    • Yes this is one out of many things I wonder how Jane Velez Mitchell processes every night before she goes to sleep. This case goes contrary to every social justice issue she has ever stood for; and now while she is on her “Pet of the day” kick trying to spread vegetarianism – she and her hate brigade are carrying on with a guy that’s unloading bullets into animals because he had a bad day.

      • Pictures of him ‘sport hunting’ black bears up here in Canada too. I’m not a fan of hunting, I understand if people do it to feed themselves, but killing animals just for the hell of killing animals is sadistic. He comes across as a psychopath to me.

        • same, same. I get that impression from a lot of folks in Team Travis; there’s something very unsettling about people who relish in the idea of killing or watching suffering.

        • In order to hunt bear in Canada, one must do so under the guidance of a licensed and registered outfitter. The outfitter buys the ‘tag’ for the bears from the government, sells them to the hunters for many thousands of dollars and makes a living by housing, guiding and feeding the hunters during the week of the hunt. This is a huge business which supports thousands of families in Canada and the US. The number of tags allowed is based upon extensive record keeping on the numbers of bears in the area. Only bears over 3 years of age are huntable and only the males who have by the age of 3 spread their genes among the bear population.

          There is no guarantee after spending $10-15K that one will actually even see a bear. This of course does not include travel to the hunt.

          Male bears kill cubs in order to force the mother into season so they can breed with her. Any given area can support only so many bears or there will be a devastating effect on the elk, deer, moose, populations. The dessimation of the prey animals also affects other predators such as wolves and coyotes. Bears will kill and eat farm animals, pets and people, everything is food to them. Old bears are more likely to starve to death, die of disease or be killed by a younger male bear than be killed by a hunter.

          The money collected by the government for the tags is used for the conservation efforts for the species.

          Hunting is a multi billion dollar buiness in the US and Canada (as well as all over the world) and supports many, many people.

          If you don’t like to hunt, fine. You don’t have too. The grocery is full of meat from animals that have been killed for you in slaughterhouses. As for the dead bears, some people will eat a spring kill but mostly the body is left for the scavengers who need to eat too.

          Just a bit of real information on hunting. I was once an opponent until I learned the truth.

          • I’m not sure where you got that info, but it is not accurate. Any Canadian resident with a proper hunting license (varies by province) can buy a tag to hunt black bear, it costs about $50. The age limit on bears to be hunted varies again from province to province but in Ontario there are no laws governing the age or sex of bear. It’s more of an ethical decision not to hunt young bears.

            The only reason Americans (non-residents) pay thousands of dollars as you stated is because they’re paying for a luxury, not out of requirement. What I’m saying in a polite way is that the Canadian outfitters are taking advantage of the American hunters willingness to pay stupid amounts of money.

            As far as the male bears killing cubs to force mom in to season, that just sounds like rhetoric taken from a “pro hunter” website. Its justification to kill more animals, its not actually factual information.

            “As for the dead bears, some people will eat a spring kill but mostly the body is left for the scavengers who need to eat too.” Again, not true. Many hunters eat bear, many are simply trophy killers… they keep the head and skin (bear skin rugs). The remainder is left for other wildlife.

            So ya, the truth is still out there, its just not on the site you got that info from.

  24. Unless JA bought or borrowed those gas cans and poured them over TA body to burn him, then that would be considered premeditation. Other than that, Fartinez can speculate as much as he wants and he cannot prove anything. He might prove JA had a bad memory!

    • I much prefer the name Fartinez than Kermit…after all, Kermit is a lovable little guy, and Fartinez isn’t.

      • Fartinez is funny, but I must admit that I can’t help but think of Bert N Ernie when I hear Kurt Nurmi! =D

    • I know right?? So what if she used gas cans on a road trip? A lot of people do. If she wanted to get rid of evidence, there’s plenty of other accelerants that are more portable and easier to handle than lugging around 15+/- gallons of gasoline. Plus Travis’ body was not burned, so there’s no point in people arguing that anyway!

  25. Hey, does any know what JM is talking about when he mentions Matt McCartney and if he is really someone who is your ally? Did Matt make statements that conflict what Jodi is saying? Did Matt say anything like she never mentioned child porn? Thanks!

  26. So further to the steroid issue. The autopsy report doesn’t seem to say anything n particular. However one of the side effects of anabolic steroid use is hypomania which has the following symptoms:

    The DSM-IV-TR defines a hypomanic episode as including, over the course of at least four days, elevated mood plus three of the following symptoms OR irritable mood plus four of the following symptoms:
    pressured speech
    inflated self-esteem or grandiosity
    decreased need for sleep
    flight of ideas or the subjective experience that thoughts are racing
    easy distractibility and attention-deficit similar to attention deficit hyperactivity disorder
    increase in psychomotor agitation
    involvement in pleasurable activities that may have a high potential for negative psycho-social or physical consequences (e.g., the person engages in unrestrained buying sprees, sexual indiscretions, reckless driving, or foolish business investments).

    Any of this sound familiar vis a vis TA, or is that just my hyper-imagination

    • Yes, but it also fits the characteristics of an abusive man to a “T”. I wanted to believe there was something going on with my ex, I really did, something I could fix, a doctor could fix, he could stop. But there wasn’t. He was just your typical run of the mill narcissistic abuser with no conscience .. but a smart one.

    • Well go to UTUBE an watch a ED SNELL video of him an I would say yes it all applies. An it also shows he is far from Mr. Innocent of being a Saint being it is a made up character I think it speaks volumes to me of his hidden side.

        • I wondered when everyone else was going to see those videos. I saw them years ago, in the light they were originally presented’ they were innocent. But of course, now they are completely misconstrued.

  27. Wow, I’m surprised the biased media doesn’t talk about stuff like this. Instead all they do is talk about her sex tapes and stuff instead of giving her a fair trial

  28. Dog,

    You ought to see if Jennifer can have one of their staff read some of the posts here. Once we get past the touchy-feely stuff there are some legitimate questions being asked.

    This is like the most awesome brain-stroming session ever.

    • I have suggested that but I have no received a reply from her. Though watching the trial I have seen a few references to things that were mentioned in detail here so I have a feeling someone is keeping them in the loop about discussions here.

  29. “Vladimir Gagic – March 8, 2013 10:40 AM”

    Thank you for all the excellent comments. A few points though:

    The government’s obligation is prove premeditation in their case in chief, which they could not do under any circumstances. For all those saying “wait and see” the government prove murder it, considering the fact the prosecution case in chief closed weeks ago, that is a direct admission the prosecution did not carry its burden on that point.

    Second, rage and mutilation (27 cuts) are not indications of planning, cool calculation, etc… Instead, they are clear indications of a crime of passion and spontaneity, maybe depraved murder two certainly not premeditated murder one.

    Third, I find it very interesting how many tweets I have seen from people who “know” for a fact that Jodi Arias lied about shooting Mr. Alexander first because it directly contradicts the punitively “scientific” medical examiner testimony. How many of those same people know that is exactly what Det. Flores said first, Mr. Alexander was shot before being stabbed.

    And how many of those same people who fully support the idea scientific evidence is sufficient to condemn Ms. Arias to death, but at the same time, think evolution is a hoax and God created man in 7 days?

    • ROAK, I hear what you’re saying about the God-fearing, execution-loving, evolution-denying, misogynistic brutes who would likely have an orgasm at a public hanging. They are oozing out of the cracks of civilization and making their appearance on TV and social media. We should be taking a good, long, critical look at our society. Jodi Arias’ guilt or innocence is practically beside the point of this shit storm.

      But, there are many people who are nothing like that, and who also think that Dr. Horn’s testimony, and other physical evidence, supports the theory that Jodi did not shoot first. Not that you said that the mob, and the shot-first theory, are one and the same. I know you didn’t say that. So, I’m only pointing this out because there seems to be an idea developing here and there, on this website, that to suspect Jodi of dishonesty on ANY detail of her testimony is akin to siding with the blood-lust crowd. It certainly isn’t.

      • No Pique it isn’t. I am just trying to understand how this happened. I agree with JA that she shot first, because it makes more sense to me and fits the evidence. I think the prosecution hasn’t done a very good job explaining it, because it is more supporting of what she says. But I also know that JA has lied and trying to sort the lies from the truth is the most difficult aspect.
        For the most part, I think everyone here is just trying to figure out what happened and are civil to one another even when we have differing viewpoints.
        And I agree about taking a look at our society, is this how we want to be as a society where any dissenting view should be treated with hatred and scorn. Remember people we are society and each of us has a part in it and only we can change it. What scares me the most is the blood-lust crowd is never willing to listen to reason and respect for other people doesn’t mean you have to be silent or act politcally correct.
        And is it really justice for Travis if someone is railroaded to death row. To me justice for all should be the most important point. If you don’t believe someone deserves justice, just remember that point of view can be turned against anyone at any point in time

        • TB, my comment above was in direct response to ROAK’s comment. But, you’re right: for the most part, the discussions here have been very respectful and civil, even when there’s disagreement about what the evidence means. We’re all trying to figure it out. Contrast that with the blood-lust crowd, where a dissenting opinion–so I’ve been hearing–could get you a death threat!

          I have never felt shut down on this website, even when I have pointed out what I think are Jodi’s lies or confabulations. Well… only once someone yelled at me in ALL CAPS and made some pretty outrageous accusations, but that person has since disappeared. Still, I think we need to guard ourselves from the idea that there isn’t a grey area between the defense and prosecution. There is, and that’s where objectivity is supposed to come in. That’s where we hope the jurors are sitting.

          Last, I agree with you totally that justice for all should be the most important point. That’s why we have a justice system: to prevent vigilantes, or grieving loved ones, from taking matters into their own hands. We may never be arrested, accused and put on trial, but it’s a matter of our well-being and security that the system is there–and working properly–should we ever find ourselves in that position.

      • I totally agree Pique. Right now, I am still inclined to believe Jodi killed Travis out of self defense but some of the things she has said and the overall strategy of her defense I do have trouble with. So far. As a woman, her story resonates with me and I can relate to her on many levels. On the other hand, my mom and boyfriend think she is guilty but do not want to see her get the Death Penalty. They both think there is evidence that premeditation is likely but they think it was more a crime of passion. They are not blood thirsty at all for Jodi. They do not think Travis was a saint by any stretch of the imagination. They know he lied and presented himself as something he was not and the fact that he was in a position of an elder they think really hypocritical. I guess my point is they are not like the rabid folks you hear about on TV. So there are some that are looking at this trial and the evidence that aren’t calling for her head but at same time don’t believe her I guess.

        • Premeditation just doesn’t fit for me at all. There are definitely holes in the story, both on the side of the defense and the side of the prosecution. I just can’t can’t can’t fathom that after she slashed his throat (assuming *she* did), she then shot him with a piddly little gun … unless she didn’t know it was a piddly little gun. If she didn’t know, then perhaps I could fathom that she had watched a lot of horror movies/tv shows where the seemingly dead arose after being mortally wounded and attacked again, and that, in her state of mind, she wanted to make sure he was completely dead for sure, and shot him. That’s the ONLY way I can possibly make sense of the gun shot being last.

          But for me, even if we had video of her stealing the grandparents’ gun (which we don’t and I’m still not sure it was the same gun), I just can’t see that she stole it with the intention of going to Mesa, and killing the man she loved with all her heart (and still does) because he didn’t want to take her to Cancun (or for any other reason, other than self defense). Because if that had been her intent, she had a gazillion opportunities to do so while he was sleeping, while they were having sex or shortly after he orgasmed (which occurred more than once), while he was in the shower .. so why the hell did she wait?

          So, even if I say, okay, she might have stolen the gun, I can only think that if she did, she did it to protect herself, if need be, while driving through the desert in the wee hours. A beautiful slender girl driving alone through the desert … yeah, okay, maybe she might have felt she needed protection. But then, why didn’t she ask her grandparents if she could take the gun? Or, why didn’t she go somewhere and buy her own freaking $100 gun? Or ask someone else she knew if she could borrow theirs? It doesn’t add up. But okay, again, for the sake of argument, let’s say she stole it. Let’s just say that. If she knew anything about guns (and she says she did), she would know it wasn’t going to be THE most effective method to kill him.

          So, let’s say she didn’t know diddly about guns (just as I don’t), and she brought the gun with the express intent of killing the man she loved. Then, again, why did she stick around so long, why waste all those opportunities to kill him and not do it? Okay, so the argument is, she wanted to give him another chance to take her to Cancun or ask her to marry him or tell her she was the ONLY woman for him, or whatever. And she had wild sex with him, and took pictures and video thinking that might change his mind. But it didn’t. So, she gets mad at that point. Then, why wouldn’t she just shoot him and run out of there? Why would she shoot him AND stab him And slit his throat? More importantly, why would she stab him, then slit his throat, then shoot him? None of this makes ANY sense to me.

          And okay, so let’s say all of the above is true. She tried to sway him (to something). It didn’t work. So, she decided to carry through with her plan to kill him. And he’s in the shower telling her “Sorry, the sex was great, but no, I’m not going to change my mind.” Then, why not grab the knife and slit his throat and run like hell? He’s showering. She took photos. Any DNA from sex is getting washed away.

          Instead, she stabs his back? I mean, seriously, his back and not even deep cuts? Why?

          So, okay, she stabs his vena cava, but it doesn’t kill him. So, he pounces on her then, and she stabs his back. But wait, I thought she stabbed his back while he’s in the shower? Okay, now I’m confused. But even if she did ALL of this, and finally had an opportunity to slit his throat, why on earth did she shoot him THEN? She’d already slit his throat, for crying out loud.

          And if all this was so damn premeditated, why didn’t she go online or watch a season of CSI, etc. or buy a book on tape/CD for her car ride and learn about blood splatter and how to clean up a whole lot better than she did? I mean, seriously, if she had ALL those weeks to think about it — not to mention a long ass drive for hours — why didn’t she learn about hiding evidence better? In 2008, was she really so naive as to think that simply taking the gun, the rope and the knife and taking out some kind of floor cleaner and running it over the floor (poorly) would be sufficient? I sure wasn’t that naive in 2008, and the TV I watched at that point was monitored by my ex and limited.

          And if she tried to clean up the blood on the floor and wash his body, why didn’t she clean the damn sink? I mean, that was THE most obvious thing, right there in front of her. And why didn’t she take the camera?

          Okay, maybe she forgot in her haste to do all of the above in less than a few minutes, and get out of the house, into her car, with the rope, the gun, the knife, and having put all this stuff into the washer. This is getting super super far fetched, right?

          And then, there’s the fact that some of her own hair got pulled out in the struggle. So, whatever way you look at it, it wasn’t pretty.

          And if she was trying to travel there without anyone seeing her, why did she keep the damn receipts? Why did she let her rental car be seen at his house for all those hours? Why didn’t she get in, do the deed, and get the hell out?

          This isn’t some stupid girl who, having decided to kill a guy and hide it, would make all these mistakes. She wasn’t even a young girl by that point in time. She was 27. It’s not old, but it’s far from young and dumb. It wouldn’t have taken much of a stretch at all for her to figure out how to commit a MUCH better crime, and cover it up much more professionally. It might not have been perfect, but it wouldn’t have been THAT sloppy.

          So, there’s only two possibilities that I can rationalize, which could have gone down, assuming she acted alone.

          1. It was self defense. He attacked her. She was terrified. She lost her mind in her anger and fear. She remembered the gun (or even had the gun for protection) and shot him. That didn’t work and he came at her even more ferociously. She saw the knife, grabbed it, and stabbed him. But he wasn’t stopping, and she kept stabbing, so she slashed his throat because adrenaline was flowing. And somehow, she put him back in the shower, did a crappy clean up, and got the hell out of there. She drove and drove, and at some point, snapped out of it, saw the blood all over herself, and freaked the hell out.

          2. Something else happened that made her lose her temper and mind and then, everything else I described above went down. It was a crazy crime of passion.

          The only other possible scenario is that she didn’t act alone.

          But then, there are all these other holes, giant gaping holes. No one gets concerned, not even his roommates in the same house, when he hasn’t been seen for 5 days. Things he never goes anywhere without are laying around (ring, watch). Okay, so they mixed up the dates of his Cancun trip until Mimi contacted them. I’ll buy that, sort of. Or they thought he was on some other trip. More plausible. And they figured he forgot his stuff. Okay.

          My problem here is how they missed the smell for 5 days. 2 days? I can buy that. 5 days? I’m stumped. Mimi told Flores it was overwhelming. Flores said it was overwhelming the moment he walked in the house. Now, he’s a homicide cop, he would know. But could you REALLY miss that smell for THAT long?

          Let’s say they did. Let’s just believe that. But I’m STILL stuck on premeditation. Gas cans or not because right now, they’re gas cans schmas cans to me. And I have a lot of doubt.

          So, if I’m on the jury, and I deliberate ANY of the above, I’m just not getting to premeditation, whether I believe most, any, or even none of what she said.

          So, I’m an average juror. I don’t understand domestic violence. She has no corroboration of it, and I don’t buy it without any (like most people) She has lied before. That ticks me off. Her TV interviews piss me off. Her saying I’d never convict her pisses me off. But the bottom line is, I still can’t get to premeditation. There’s way more than enough reasonable doubt to go around, way more. I can’t convict on that. End of story.

        • Amelia, I’m glad you can see where I’m coming from. The story of her toxic relationship resonates with me, too. But her defense strategy leaves me uncertain and unsettled.

        • From Amelia: “They both think there is evidence that premeditation is likely but they think it was more a crime of passion”

          So exactly what evidence of premeditation are they referring to?

    • ROAK, yes excellent point. I also wonder how many of those people claim to value human life, but then don’t see any problem with the bloodthirsty mob raping and killing Jodi, her family or friends.

  30. Jodi said that Travis told her that the gun was not loaded. She also said she pointed it at him so he would stop chasing her. Why would he stop if the gun was not loaded? The only reason he would stop if it was loaded.

      • Well, he would be lying, if the story is true. But, I believe it was also said that he left the back sliding glass door unlocked, in Phoenix, Arizona. And, he did have an experience of being held at gunpoint. So, why keep a loaded gun in the house, but not lock the doors??

      • Why would he charge a loaded gun? I just don’t get it. He would have had to have been the one to load it.

    • More to the point is why would she think an unloaded gun would stop him. She did say he told her it wasn’t loaded and that she too believed it wasn’t loaded (per him), so I still don’t get what she means by thinking it would stop him?

      • This seems to be another case of Jodi adding layers of details, as her testimony progresses, that don’t help her defense in any way.

        • Well if she could have explained that part better. Leaving the impression they both thought it was unloaded contrasted with saying she thought it would stop him doesn’t seem to jive. Cross that with her saying she saw no ammo either and I just feel like I’m missing something.

          • Well, if Travis left his doors unlocked, then why would he keep a loaded gun in the house?? Is he concerned about security? Or, is he not concerned about security? All of the people I know who carry loaded guns, and are concerned about security, do not leave their back doors unlocked.

            • That’s a good point. But a case could also be made that if he is careless enough to leave his doors unlocked, he’d be careless enough to leave a loaded, cocked gun in his closet. I heard the question from the jury about cocking the gun, taking a safety off, etc., but I’m not familiar enough with guns to know if that type of gun has those functions or is a necessity to get it into firing mode?

              • has she said it was semi automatic? They make .25 that are. If it was, wouldn’t it fire without having to switch the safety to off?

                • Negative, the trigger of ANY gun cannot be pulled when the safety is switched ON (unless it is broken or malfunctioning of course.) The safety MUST be switched OFF in order to pull the trigger and fire the gun.

                • Thanks! A defense attorney was saying what i said which is why questioned it.

              • ‘Loaded’ gun is actually a ‘loaded’ term. As you probably already know, a ‘loaded’ gun simply means that the weapon has a bullet or bullet(s) ‘loaded’ in it. But, what you may not know is that just because a gun is deemed ‘loaded’, does not necessarily equate that it is ready to be fired (or discharged.)

                Semi automatic guns have what is known as ‘clips’ or ‘magazines’ which holds the bullets. The bullets are essentially ‘loaded’ into the ‘clip’ and then the ‘clip’ is loaded into the gun. At this point, the gun would be considered ‘loaded’, however, it is not ready to be fired because it needs to be ‘cocked.’ ‘Cocking’ the gun just simply means to prepare the weapon to be fired which is accomplished by getting a bullet into the gun’s chamber. A semi-automatic handgun is ‘cocked’ simply by pulling back on the gun’s hammer. As the hammer is pulled back, the spring in the bullet clip pushes UP on ALL of the bullets so that when the hammer is pulled back, a bullet is then PUSHED UP from the ‘clip’ and then goes into the gun’s chamber. After the releasing the hammer, the bullet slides forward and is now ready to be discharged. Now, you have a ‘cocked’ AND ‘loaded’ gun. If you put the ‘safety’ on, now you have what is known as a ‘cocked and locked’ gun. In other words, it cannot be fired until the trigger safety is switched off.

                Now, when the trigger is pulled, a firing pin inside the hammer slams into the back of the bullet casing which then ignites the smokeless gun powder and thus discharges the bullet. The resulting POWER of the bullet being discharged causes the hammer of the gun to be pushed back. As the hammer is pushed back, another bullet is immediately PUSHED UP into the chamber from the spring-loaded clip. Hence, the term SEMI-AUTOMATIC. The gun AUTOMATICALLY chambers another bullet by using the KICKBACK power of firing the previous bullet. But, the key point here is, the user of the gun HAS to MANUALLY pull the hammer back to get the FIRST bullet into the chamber. After that, the gun will continue to AUTOMATICALLY chamber another bullet after each discharge (or fire) until it either JAMS or the clip is depleted of all bullets.

                Assuming the .25 caliber was a semi-automatic, SOMEBODY HAD to pull back on the gun’s hammer to chamber the first bullet whether it was Travis or Jodi, we will probably never know.

                If it was a .25 revolver, then it all changes…

                All Jodi would have to do is simply pull the trigger to fire the gun (assuming the safety was switched off and there are bullets ‘loaded’ into the gun’s ‘revolving’ cylinder.)

                Hope that explains it.

                • David,

                  Never saw a revolver that ejected spent brass. That would mean she would have to crack the cylinder and eject the case. I very much doubt that. I know Smith produced a revolver in 25 ACP at one time, but haven’t heard of many others.

                  Chances are it was some cheap “mouse gun” semi of some kind.

                • @ Al

                  Yes, very good catch! Revolvers do not automatically eject the brass casing like a semi-automatic. And I would have to agree with you that Jodi likely did not open the cylinder (assuming it was a .25 revolver) and eject the spent casing onto the floor.

                  She COULD have…

                  But, I doubt it with all things considered.

                • David, I know absolutely nothing about guns, and that was quite easy to follow and understand. You are an excellent technical writer!

        • I did not like the way Jodi answered this question and later how the defense tried to have her re-address it. I thought it sounded like her lawyer was trying to get her out of a jam and I thought if I am thinking that and I am on HER side, what is the jury thinking.

      • If someone told you me that a gun was not loaded and the next day we get into a fight, the person is chasing me and im scared for my life. With no other choice I would still point the gun, hoping that they’dstostopped.

        • At one stage she said something about the fact that a normal person would stop just f they had a gun pointed at them.

          On the other hand maybe TA didn’t stop because he thought the gun wasn’t loaded. However it had one in the chamber. Normal gun safety check says drop the magazine and clear the chamber. Being a gun enthusiast (and having worked at a hunting and fishing store during my school day, that was the retail store I was talking about earlier) we always clear the chamber when someone hands us a weapon. You would be surprised how many times we get handed weapons with a round in the chamber, even from folks who are used to weapons.

          So it would not surprise me if there was a round in the chamber.

          • Yes, but haven’t there been numerous reports of Travis leaving his doors unlocked? Didn’t Jodi also say that he left his sliding glass door unlocked, in the back, when she went around the house? So, why would Travis be so vigilant as to keep a loaded gun on a shelf, but not vigilant enough to even lock his own doors, in Phoenix, Arizona? It is this sort of stuff that makes my head spin. I guess I am glad that I am not a juror.

            • Maybe because he had roommates. Didnt the roommate say he didnt have a key. He would sometimes go in through the garage. So with the roommates coming in n out, how was he able to make sure the doors were akways locked. He mightve though that since the doors weren’t always locked he needed a loaded gun.

            • Funnily enough, the same issue came up in the Oscar Pistorius case. He says that he keeps a loaded gun by his bed because he’s very paranoid about people breaking into his house, yet on the night he shot his girlfriend, he said that he got up in the middle of the night to close his OPEN balcony doors.

      • She did explain that actually. She thought seeing her point a gun at him would be enough to make him stop. Kind of like … it’s a weapon, he needs to snap out of it (loaded or not). Most of use would think twice if someone was pointing a weapon at us, right?


    Here are the regulations for hunting coyotes. You MUST have a license!!

    “Coyotes are classified as predators and have an open, year-round hunting season. A valid license is required, except in a case where livestock has been killed.”

    And, you cannot just get a hunting license if you aren’t an Arizona resident:

    Nonresident Hunting-Fishing License, Regulations and Nonpermit -tag Order Form

    “Nonresidents of Arizona may use this form to order hunting and fishing licenses, special use stamps, non-permit hunt tags, regulations and books through the mail. This form must be submitted separately to the Arizona Game and Fish Department. The form cannot be submitted with hunt-permit tag applications.”

    Shall we report Mr. Hughes?? It would be nice for him to be in the same jail as Jodi! 🙂

    OH, and if any of Chris Hughes friends are reading this, don’t bother deleting his post on FB, I have captured a screen shot of it!

              • The walmart receipt said Kerosene and not “gas can”. Those are two different containers no? Maybe she realized she bought the wrong kind and thats why she returned it? So many little things that really need to be cleared up! Why did she continue to fill the gas cans on the way home if she only filled them in the first place to sneak into Mesa? DUH! They really need to tie this shit together during closing.

  32. I have been following the trial. I have seen autopsy and crime scene photos. Maybe I missed the answer to this somewhere but can someone tell me HOW IN THE WORLD did Jodi get that 189 pound man folded up and placed in the shower?? I was discussing this with my wife and she said Adrenaline. By the time she would have put him in the shower ALL of that Adrenaline would be gone. We assume she put the sheets and the camera in the washer, took the gun, rope, and whatever else, got dressed etc. With all of that time lapsed she could not have still had Adrenaline enough to lift him over the lip of the shower and fold him up. Granted there are serveral things I have questions about but that is a HUGE one. Any thoughts?

    • I agree too, I haven’t been able to come up with anything that fits except- and this is pure speculation-
      what if in that last pic of TA he isn’t dead, throat isn’t cut yet, the blood on the shoulder is coming from gunshot to the head. If his throat was cut in that pic, he wouldn’t be able to hold his head up and I don;t see anything else in that picture holding his head up. So my speculation about that pic is TA is saying help me, help me.He could be very weak at this point, but still able enough to stumble with help from JA to get into the shower and she starts to wash off the wounds to see how bad it is. But now I just can’t come up with a good enough reason for the cut throat.

    • Since I can find no other reason for the plastic cup & how the box got wet, I think she used the plastic cup to put water on the tile floor so it was fairly easy to drag his naked wet body across it. The lip into the shower looks like it’s maybe 3″ – 4″ high. She could easily step into the shower, dragging his upper body in & then step out & lift his lower body over that lip. My husband once held me while my 3 & 6 year old daughters jumped out of the shower & the two girls had no problem dragging me by the feet into the shower. I was clothed & I imagine a naked wet body would slide across the floor even more easily than I did. My floor was only wet from the water that had dripped from my daughters bodies when they got out of the shower. If there had been more water & the kids had been wearing shoes or socks for more traction, it would have been much easier to drag me across the bathroom.

      • The only thing to remember is that with that neck wound there would have been blood everywhere, Jodi would have been covered in blood. If not from moving him down the hall in to the bathroom then surely from trying to lift his body in to the shower. That would have taken some effort, she would have been fumbling to hold on to his slippery body while trying to lift and pull and push and… well, there would have been blood all over the place. What I’m really stumped by is how she got out of the bedroom without leaving bloody footprints all over the place. A wet + blood soaked tile floor would be like a skating rink. I just can’t figure that out.

  33. The government hasn’t proved capital murder, but thanks to Martinez, I know the exact price of gas in June 2004 and how much gas will fit in a gas can.

  34. I have posted before about driving from Pasadena, where I used to live, to Vegas and carrying gas because the 15 is long and scary when you are alone. Well, I also used to travel nationwide with my job and rented cars everywhere. Doing multiple purchases was something I did frequently (I turned my receipts in for reimbursement, so I recall this clearly)–I would often get back into a rental car, look and the gas gauge, then get back out to pump more gas. I don’t see what the issue is with the Tesoro receipts. First of all, the Ford Focus had a 13.5 gallon tank. If I was on fumes (which I often was) I would always stop at a station very close to my hotel–just as Jodi stopped close to where she was staying. So let’s say she could fit 13 gallons in her car. Plus two gas tanks at 5 gallons each. That makes 23 gallons. 23 gallons at 3.859 is $88.76. Her total purchases at $97.81 less the gas as just described leaves a balance of $9.05. How does that prove 5 gallons of gas?

    • This is what I understood from someone who broke it down. Im not good at math stories so this helped me understand what martinez was trying to get the jury to think.

      1. If her car had been on empty (who knows) and the car she was driving had a gas tank capacity of 13.5 gallons, filling it up @ 3.85 per gallon would cost her $51.97.

      2. If she had only two empty 5 gallon gas cans to fill, @ 3.85 per gallon, it would cost her $38.50.

      3. At this point, Jodi has filled up her car and her two 5 gallon gas cans and it has cost her $90.47

      4. BUT Jodi’s Tesoro receipts total $97.81.

      5. If all the Tesoro receipts really were a gas only purchase then there is $7.34 of gas unaccounted for.
      $7.34 would equal almost 2 gallons of gas. Again, if the receipts reflect gas purchases only, where do these two extra gallons go if her car and two gas cans are already filled?

  35. Hi everyone this is my first time posting, I’ve been reading this site for a couple weeks.

    I just wanted to ask- How on earth is it that the jury is not sequestered? I only found that out about a week ago despite having watched most of the trial up to this point. Talk about not getting a fair trial!

    I wish Jodi the best, I can’t imagine being grilled like that for this length of time. Another thing I find odd is that sometimes they only have trial like 2 days a week. I remember when the Amanda Knox trial was going on the newspeople here were like” Oh yeah that’s the Italian’s for ya, meh” because it was a similiar situation.

    Anyways, thanks for this site and have a great weekend!

    • Good question Panhandle a lot of us have the same question. I would think in a possible death penalty case the jury would be sequestered so that no outside influences can get in. Judging from everything that has been on HLN and what TA’s friends have posted, if anyone in the jury decides to watch tv this trial will be all over the news.

    • Juries are rarely sequestered, even for DP cases. AZ is broke. I don’t think the county has the $ to sequester the jury, esp for 3+ months.

  36. This is positively outrageous:

    The spokesperson for the National Domestic Violence Hotline has determined that Jodi is NOT a battered woman! She has determined this before Jodi has completed her testimony, before the defense experts testify, before the defense rests its case, before the prosecution’s rebuttal (which may include experts) and before the jury deliberates? She has convicted her of manslaughter in her own mind?

    Please, could any of you who are domestic violence survivors or supporters of victims/survivors, and most especially if you ever called the hotline or donated to them, email or call them and let them know how you feel about this travesty. This will only encourage other victims to remain silent. It will certainly NOT contribute to breaking the silence.

    Information on contacting the hotline is here:

    • Well, if she’s wrong for making up her mind so early, so are we! I understand what you’re saying, but it’s HARD to wait until the end of the trial to form an opinion- as we well know! 🙂

      • That’s true, JosephHenry, but we’re just people on a website comment section. She is the spokesperson for a national organization which allegedly encourages women to speak out about domestic violence and seek help. There are dozens of women here who have written here that they relate to Jodi because they are also victims of domestic violence (including myself). There are others who may be reading and lurking. Some of them may be in violent relationships. Some of them may be yelled at, raped, disrespected, beaten as I write this response. Some of them may be thinking about speaking out, about making a call, about looking for help, and they may be inspired to do so because of all the amazing people here. Having a spokesperson come out publicly and say that she believes Jodi is lying sends a very very dangerous message to victims all over. They may decide to retreat and not seek help or leave. And that may well cost those victims their lives.

        That spokeswoman had NO right to publically doubt another woman, EVER, let alone condemn. Whatever she wanted to say to her own friends and colleagues, fine. But she did tremendous damage to the movement as a whole by condemning Jodi in a public article.

          • Maybe an open letter posted on thw web? I don’t know. Ideas? She’s rewounding victims with her crap.

            • That’s a great idea JC. I already wrote them an individual letter and hope others do the same. I told them I won’t be donating any more until they remove this woman as their spokesperson or ask her to retract her article … at least, until this trial is over. But an open letter would be good as it would be passed around. Is there a good site to do such a thing on?

            • Yes its very sad and I agree that because of her position, it was very wrong, no matter what, for her to speak against any woman claiming abuse. Especially before a verdict has been announced. Can you imagine if a juror were to get wind of that or a spouse of a juror whispered before going to sleep, “I know you can’t talk about it but the spokesperson for Domestic Violence just said she is a liar”. That would be the nail in the coffin. The sad case is that she is not alone though. There have been so many female abuse survivors I have read about online that have been speaking out against Jodi and believing she is using their pain as a tool.

              I asked this question earlier and am curious if any of you know? Have you heard of any other woman, defendant who was accused of murdering their husband or boyfriend, initially told many lies surrounding the killing, but then ultimately it was proven the woman was in fact innocent and the victim was an abuser? My opinion is this is the biggest reason why many are angry at her from what I have read about. They feel like a true victim would have not had the presence of mind to have been so calculating and attempting to cover up if she had really just gone through a true life or death situation in which she fought for her life. They think she has practiced her “role”. How do you fight against that type of thinking??

              • Good point, Amelia. That could completely prejudice the jury. Unbelievable!!!! I am sooooo angry about this. It really upset me today.

                There have been abuse victims all over the net speaking out about Jodi as you say, and conversely, those of us who have actually watched the trial (not just HLN’s snippets) and support her. However, none is so damaging as a spokesperson for the National Domestic Violence Hotline!

                As for your question about other victims, the only similar case I can think of is Susan Wright. She buried her husband in the back yard, repainted the walls, and filed for a restraining order against him the following day. However, she confessed 5 days later through her attorney, I believe. Yep, here’s a link about the story:


                I will do some research this weekend and see if there are any others.

        • Thank you for your perspective, also abused. I’m glad to be able to see it through your eyes. I have a question, however. If Jodi is found guilty, would you also see this as damaging to victims of abuse? I’m wondering what kind of impact this trial will have on that discussion? I would certainly hope it wouldn’t dissuade those in need of help from getting help. 🙁

          • Actually, JosephHenry, that’s a really good question. The simple answer is no, but that might be difficult to understand without explanation. This woman is a spokesperson for a national organization. She has convicted Jodi and refused to accept self defense or even that Jodi was battered, even before the trial is over. That’s a HUGE statement. What Jodi is doing is truly powerful and a giant step forward in advocacy and bringing awareness of domestic violence. If Jodi is convicted of first degree murder, it won’t take that away. In fact, it may bring even more awareness whether or not she’s convicted (and I sincerely hope she isn’t convicted). Her courage, her story, may actually bring about great change. But what this spokeswoman did calls all of that into question.

            Unfortunately, there have been many female victims of domestic violence who have been convicted (whether for murder or something else) even when domestic violence was involved (often because they pled to a lesser charge, and could not afford appropriate representation).
            There have been several documentaries on the subject, for example, Sin By Silence features Brenda Clubine, who spent 26 years in prison for killing her husband, even though she had kick prints up and down her back and other women. Every F—ing Day of My Life (which is on YouTube) features Wendy Alvarado who accepted a plea bargain, as did her son who helped her, and is still incarcerated. And then, there’s Marissa Alexander, in Florida, was sentenced to 20 years for firing a warning shot in the air to prevent her abusive ex-husband from attacking. No one was hurt. She affirmed self defense under Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, but lost. There are many more stories and many movements working to free these women and commute their sentences. Thus far, CA is the only state to really take some action in this regard, but other coalitions are forming, and other states are waking up.

            As I said, I don’t want Jodi to be convicted, but to answer your question as honestly as I can (and I tend to be a bit hyperliteral like Jodi!), no, I don’t think it will be as damaging. I hope that makes sense!

    • Sent a nice long letter of my story that is close to Jodi’s an the man that used mental abuse an how long it took for me to see he was not a GOOD MAN an leave finally. 5 years not as much physical abuse was in mine but it was there. An I believe mental abuse is just as bad because we can’t see the wounds an we hide them also just like physical scars from abuse.

    • I call a domestic hot line after being raped by the arlington rapest in arlington tx they told me not to worry that he will not came back that was my fear. and the next week he got the woman that lived behind me they did not help me and were not very understanding.

    • I feel your pain. While watching coverage of this case, it has been one betrayal after another, by women who have advocated for other women; but then decide to abdicate everything they ever stood for and throw Jodi under the bus. They are also instrumental in denying the unhealthy attitudes Travis had towards women, sex, and relationships; pretending that his propensity towards intimidation and dominance is somehow not important; or even normal and desirable. They have deliberately misconstrued speaking the truth about abusive behavior as “defaming the victim,” when in fact it is their way of silencing the points the defense has to make to show battered woman syndrome.

      I want to write them a letter, but sadly I do not believe they will care or consider my opinion at all. Like Judge Karen said, our society has only begun to understand the physical aspects of domestic violence and pass laws accordingly; people are clueless as to the psychological and emotional impact and the Domestic Violence Hotline people seem no different. They seem to be a service to help women in immediate danger; from what I’ve seen of Tanya William’s appearances she does not seem concerned with helping people understand when a victim is psychologically or emotionally abused; and how that can precipatate into a situation where physical violence presents itself because the abuser knows the victim at that point is not likely to leave.

      Perhaps this is one reason why victims of abuse don’t pick up that phone – because they never feel that the abuse they suffer is to the level that requires attention. Abuse is minimized at every turn, and that only victims who are bruised and bloodied and nearly dead are the only real victims. Yeah, people say that victims should leave, but on the other hand says that their situation really isn’t all that bad; and there’s more important things and people to care about. Abuse victims believe this and go on with their lives, not believing their experiences are worth talking about or doing anything about, and just hope things will change because it’s “not that bad.”

      I know Jodi probably went through this, and had the unfortunate experience of having people in her life minimize what happened to her as “drama.” No wonder she was embarressed about the direction their relationship had turned; without outward support the shame was internalized like it is for so many.

      I am sad for Jodi, not just because she had people in her life that minimized the abuse she suffered; but also because it has not escaped my attention that there are people who have claimed to be Jodi’s friend and support her and they have undermined her defense either intentionally or unintentionally. I don’t know what it’s going to take for people to understand the gravity of this situation. We’re dealing with a hate-filled media blitz, an unsequestered jury and the death penalty hanging in the balance. Make no mistake this is a witch hunt, and the media IS reading what people are saying and using them as ammunition on their show. I caught Dr Drew doing exactly that last night, when we talked about how Travis described his near death experience and he spun them around HLN pro-prosecution style.

      I have gotten to the same point I did in the Casey Anthony trial where I realize I may never know or understand everything that happened nor will every single little question of mine be answered; but that I don’t need to because the prosecution has not proven their case, nor will they ever because all they have is a theory and no real evidence to back it up. The defense doesn’t have to prove anything, even though they have gone above and beyond the call of duty to show the Jodi is telling the truth about Travis and what happened that night.

      Anyway, I know this post is a lot longer and rambles from my original point, but I’ll post it anyway because this is how I’m feeling. I’m also sad that today is International Women’s Day, and that we have to have this kind of conversation in the year 2013 when people should understand why it’s not okay to treat women the way Jodi has been treated.

      • Wow yes I agree with you 100% on all of that I just can’t type it as eloquently I am so jealous of you lol ………I know it feels like it is 1913 again an some women are the Whores of Babylon again even the most religious friends I have are so hateful an I am truly sickened by the behavior of Bible Verses an then the OFF WITH HER HEAD on those friends posts…. ! I am ashamed of some Christians today as I never have been before. Especially when this case here does have something to do with a very strict church in my view on how Men are superior an women are submissive in the teachings of their here after according to the Book Of Mormon.

        This maybe why I come across as a MAN HATER to some it seems because I have been through a lot in my lifetime. I do not take any kind of disrespect towards me or any woman friend that I am around at any time with out saying something to the person that is being OUT OF LINE. If that is showing that I am not tolerate of bad behavior an independent an hurts someones feelings that is just too bad.

        “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men/women to do nothing.”
        ― Edmund Burke

        “Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little.”
        ― Edmund Burke

        “Rudeness is the weak man’s or women’s imitation of strength.”
        ― Edmund Burke

      • So eloquent MB. I am so glad that victims like you and so many others, are speaking out on this forum. Thank You.

        The spokeswoman needs to be removed from her position for this behavior. Anyone have ideas how to start getting that in motion?

    • This Tanya Williams, as a spokesperson, should’ve kept her opinion about Jodi Arias to herself. Instead, she chose to pander to the masses. She has a beggar mentality.

      The right not to be abused is a human right. Human rights can’t be quantified, so they can’t be in high or low supply. They just are. Therefore, Jodi Arias, Peggy Sue and Jane Doe cannot deplete anybody’s right not to be abused. And it doesn’t matter if Peggy and Jodi are liars, or truth-tellers, or something in-between, because that has nothing to do with Jane. Peggy can’t take away Jane’s right not to be abused by lying about being abused herself. She can’t “use up” Jane’s share because that belongs to Jane–she was born with it. Nor can she give Jane more right not to be abused by being a perfect Peggy.

      What Tanya Williams seems to be saying is that the human rights bank account for battered women is low, and perhaps even overdrawn. But, instead of condemning this sorry situation, this LIE that human rights are a quantifiable, limited commodity, she condemns a woman who she suspects–suspects!–is stealing from this human rights bank account. The lie is that one woman can take that away from another woman.

      And that’s why, while some men may hate a woman like Arias, the women who hate her hate her with a burning passion. Instead of hating the fact that they have had to, or may have to, beg for their share, they can just hate another woman. Williams, being a spokesperson, is adding fuel to THAT fire.

  37. First of all, Tanya Young has been on HLN now for several days stating that she does not believe Jodi is a victim of domestic violence. I wouldn’t be concerned about this. For one thing, none of us who have been victims of the kind of abuse Jodi experienced consider ourselves victims of “domestic violence,” do we? Domestic violence is easy. Hit, bruise, evidence, case closed. Emotional, narcissistic abuse is a completely different thing, and Tanya clearly has no understanding of this very sadistic, evil, under-the-rug type of abuse. So they can say Jodi was not a domestic violence victim all they want. I can guarantee you won’t find a single NPD/NPA victim saying Jodi doesn’t fit the bill.
    HLN is disgusting.