Chris Hughes – Liar & Pedo-Hugger (trial testimony from 2013)

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With over 1,100 comments posted over the past few days regarding Travis Alexander’s now infamous pedophile letter — I thought this would be a good time to revisit a related testimony from the first trial.

So here’s pedo-hugger & lying Mormon bastard Chris Hughes’ testimony from the continuation of the Evidentiary Hearing, January 29th 2013. Also take into account this is the same POS that went out of his way to go through TA’s email account (and no doubt delete any specific pedo-related chats) before Mesa PD had chance to access them.

And let’s not forget Sky’s hogging of TA’s journals until she was ordered to hand them over to Flores. We can only guess at what she removed. Here’s a section from the court Minute Entry on 6/18/2010

Sky Hughes pedo hugger minute entry journals

Moving on…

I’ve split the video into 3 parts – and added notes & timings applicable to various parts of it for easy reference:

Chris Hughes – Evidentiary Hearing (Continuation), 1/29/2013 – Part 1/3:

The start of Hughes’ testimony sets the tone for the remainder, as he immediately has memory lapses regarding who called him, when they called, why they called him, how & when he actually arrived in AZ  and when he spoke with Martinez – even though it all happened within the previous 48 hours. Classic Hughes’ pedo-hugging bullshittery.

03:42 – Hughes digs himself even deeper with regards to the specifics of Sky’s various & numerous conversations with the Maricopa County Attorneys Office.

08:50 – Hughes is questioned regarding the letters that he concluded were “proven to be forged.”  I think all the pedo-hugging has affected his eyesight.

14:20 – Nurmi highlight’s Sky’s comments regarding TA’s “age of attraction” in relation to children. I recall 12 year old’s & 9 year old’s from the first trial. Maybe you add both numbers together and divide them by 2?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Chris Hughes – Evidentiary Hearing (Continuation), 1/29/2013 – Part 2/3:

Nurmi questions Hughes regarding his response to the June 2010 letter.

03:28 – Hughes is questioned about the Jan 2007 correspondence which discussed TA being abusive to Jodi.

09:32 – Continues after sidebar with Nurmi asking about email (exhibit #5).

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Chris Hughes – Evidentiary Hearing (Continuation), 1/29/2013 – Part 3/3:

Having just spent 8 minutes reading the email, Hughes suddenly develops acute memory problems over the email content.

01:45 – Nurmi makes reference to Flores asking Hughes if he could see TA “losing it with Jodi and throwing her against a wall.” Objection sustained.

07:40 – Continues after sidebar with Nurmi asking Hughes about his reasons for contacting Gus Searcy.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Click here to read my original post: Travis Alexander’s Pedophile Letter Handwriting Comparison – (Part 2).

I’ll finish off this post with a photograph of 2 pedo’s hugging each other. And no, it’s not a picture of Jeff Gold & George Barwood.

Make of it what you will…

chris hughes pedo hugger travis alexander

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .



Never question it.

Never doubt it.

Prepare for it.

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    • I thought Chris and Sky Hughes were the killers. why aren’t they being investigated? has anyone else seen a Mormon blood atonement? that’s what they do to their Temple members when they fuck up and do things against the churches rules and Travis did plenty of those things.

  1. It,s chris…..USE….RIGHT! I can smell him through the screen. Evasive or WTF…!And when it comes to snakes well he ,d know one when he sees one and I,m talking @ you…tiny. And THAT…photo….just a bit CREEPY……BUT them is real good at CREEPY. More info…..more JUSTICE 4 JODI….bring it on …S.J.

  2. Evasive, angry, vicious, deceptive, troubling, unsettling, annoying, suspicious, unbelievable, cunning, scammer, fraud and certainly but probably not the last a professional liar. Just a few words that came to my mind while reviewing these videos. Hope I didn’t leave any out, if so feel free to fill in for me. 😉 I sure wouldn’t want to short change Mr. Chris Hughes. This are only my opinion not the management. ♥

        • Huge Memory Problems!!!!!

          AND it isn’t because of Nurmi yelling at him to where he couldn’t understand him.

          When being yelled at, you can’t answer a question because it confuses you.

          When I’m mad, I yell.
          When I talk slow and through my teeth almost biting my tongue, I am passed mad
          and beyond

          Hughes got the questions that he wanted to, but the ones he had memory problems with was
          over the simplest thing, LIKE when did you get here. REALLY????
          The asshole couldn’t remember even 2 days ago AND couldn’t remember WHO he talked with???

          How in the hell did they find Jodi guilty? HOW??
          Here’s a guy supposedly “friend” lying like crazy.
          Acting dumb about what his reply to TA was in context with?
          Lots of stuttering!!!

          WHEN you are asked to be a witness, YOU do not watch what is happening on TV.
          He said he wasn’t coming back because the defense may ask him to testify, BUT it was OK for him and his wife to watch the whole thing PLUS give the information to JUAN if their answers weren’t correct.

          He said Gus was irrelevant when asked about being someone who liked the media, YET Gus was sure relevant enough to call GUS himself and OH yes, I’m so sure he didn’t try to tell him he was a snake for testifying for the defense??? AND his WIFE knew Gus was going to be a witness???
          What did the jury NOT see in this trial????
          Makes me sick!!~

    • The first thing I noticed about the pedo letter and an original letter from TA, is that the “Y” is identical in both letters. It’s a very sharp ending “Y”, that isn’t slanted at all, but basically a straight line downward, nearly identical in length every time in both letters. I’m also not a handwriting expert, but if I was presented with these 2 letters, I would DEFINITELY say, they’re written by the same writer…TA!!! He’s totally busted…!

  3. Thanks SJ for posting those videos 🙂

    This is what I have said….the Hughes’s communications with Travis – emails – clearly spelled out their concern about his abusive behavior towards Jodi and OTHER WOMEN that preceded Jodi….this was a history of pattern that they were counseling Travis about and scolding him about….IT IS THE TRUTH !!! No matter how much they try to twist and turn those true words of theirs into something they are not after the fact, the truth remains the truth and they know it…..

    Just like I referenced on my previous post on the last page about when Jodi would have supposedly created these letters with copy and paste (see my post near bottom of previous page), Sky Hughes’s first response to Kirk Nurmi after receiving copies of the letters was to THANK HIIM and say something to the effect that they KNEW HE HAD PROBLEMS but didn’t know it was to that extent or something along those lines (it is the videos posted above) This was THE TRUTH….and once again we have the Hughes trying to deny that truth by saying things like well we only believed the letter for a few minutes….not credible IMHO…..if it were credible then WHERE IS THE FOLLOWUP EMAIL STATING THAT ???? In other words, if it were me and I had made a mistake in my initial assessment on the letter, I would have immediately followed up with another email stating that after I have further reviewed the letter that I now believe that it was not written by Travis and that I believe it is a fake and this would have been sent back to Kirk Nurmi to make sure he understood that my initial assessment was not accurate…….WHERE IS THAT EMAIL??? Answer: There is no follow up email otherwise we would have heard about it !!

    Instead we have an after the fact readjustment (YEARS AFTER THE FACT) trying to downplay the initial statements they made which were THE TRUTH !!!

    …but let your yea be yea, and your nay be nay……..

    I simply do not understand why you would want to try to skew the truth in a capital murder case when someone’s life is on the line…..the only reason I can think of is revenge….

    Revenge is mine, sayeth the Lord…….

    • BB you should forward that previous post of yours. . .it is extremely to the point. . .very clear and easy to follow. . ……..

          • Okay, when would she have done this little forging with her cut and paste?????

            1) Before she killed him ????

            Answer: She would have had to be a great planner and there is no way that any of the evidence points to premeditation – the gas cans are a farce, the hair color is a farce….LOOK AT THE SCENE !!! This is not a planned killing…..Are you kidding me??? She wanted to see how fun it would be to take on heavyweight UFC lover hyped up boxer, Travis Alexander???? Instead of just shoot him when he sleeps??? Do you have any brain cells at all in your head???

            Plus she would have already had her story straight from day one of being interrogated….SELF DEFENSE !!!!

            2) After she killed him but before she was arrested?????

            Answer: If this was the case that she had carefully taken the many, many, many hours spent meticulously to cut and past together 10 LETTERS !!!! then when they came to arrest her again she would have had her story of self defense FROM THE BEGINNING !!!! Do you have any brain cells????

            3) After she was arrested but before she changed her story???

            Answer: Oh, I forgot, Jodi had access to a computer in her little cell and was freely able to pass the 10 letters along to the jail staff so they could read them too and then have them diligently mail them off to the the DT…..Yeah, I forgot that little tid bit of info, right !!!!!

            Answer: And for those of you who are thinking oh, she had Matt create these 10 LETTERS !!! Okay, how in the hell would Matt know what kind of details that needed to be in those letters and why in the HELL WOULD HE AGREE TO FORGE 10 LETTERS – COUNT THEM 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10…..ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MINDS !!! One maybe two, but 10 FORGET ABOUT IT !!!!!

            CONCLUSION: It has already been stated on record that these letters were close to being authenticated (80% – check me on this please) and even Sky Hughes’s first reaction after seeing them was something to the effect that she knew TA had problems but not to that extent…..instead of denying it and disputing it right from the get go and saying right off that there was no way that the letters were real……Just like their emails back and forth with TA were the truth…..

            JSS should have allowed both sides to bring in their handwriting experts and allow the jury to decide whether they were real or not…..she took that decision away from the jury incorrectly

            Many of the witnesses in this case were bullied into not testifying by the threats of JM….is this how the system is supposed to work?? To keep information and evidence away from the jury?? Or are we going to allow the jury to see all the evidence and let them decide what is true or not and let them make that determination??

            Forgeries are exceedingly difficult to pull off and QED (questioned document examiners) are very well able to spot even the most sophisticated forgeries….who would possibly forge not one or two but 10 letters??? No one would, period….

    • The only reason I can think of, they are guilty about several things concerning this whole situation. Unfortunately for them, they appear to be finding themselves in the middle of it all. Even though, no one ever asked for their help, they have taken it upon themselves to seek vengeance and justice for their best friend forever TA. Such remarkable devotion to someone that they personally had stated had disturbing abusive ways when it came to women. Makes me wonder why all of this dedication to TA. Seems odd to me. They have not acted like grieving best friends forever in my eyes. In fact, for me they seem extremely involved in tampering with a crime scene and important evidence . . .hmmmmmmm………
      Were they covering for TA or were they covering for themselves. . . .peculiar……

      • Any good investigator would have seen that the Hughes appeared to have an unusual interest in the outcome of this case and usually that would send up alarm bells with law enforcement….many times the people that appear to be most interested are those that are directly involved in the situation…not saying that the Hughes were directly involved bc we don’t have any evidence or proof of that…but saying that this is the typical MO of how people act when they have a self serving interest in a case….

        • ……..And sure, as close friends you would be interested in the case, but to get involved with handling the evidence itself like keeping TA’s journals for years and going through emails and calling the prosecutor during the trial to report so-called “BS” and claiming that you had an expert look at the letters (I believe this was stated ….please check me on this if this is wrong) is….. IMHO….. beyond just the usual “we would like to see justice for Travis” – it goes beyond that…..IMHO

      • Were there legal implications to them tampering with crime scene evidence? Did they have a privilege to tamper because of their “relationship” with Travis?

    • Revenge or hiding? On how did Sky end up with the journals again??

      Oh I’m sure they were freaking out when they read the latter. What parent wouldn’t? The Sky ask KN in the email what age was he attracted to?

      OK I have admit that my theory that I’ve held on these years my just be wrong. Sky did kill TA for something he did to one of her boys…. I admit it that part. But I also would not blame her if she did except for the fact that Jodi took the fall. Their behavior is still very suspicious.

      • I found myself thinking while watching the videos again. . wouldn’t he look nice in pink underwear….chains and shackles on his wrists and ankles…..goodness…..that certainly would make one break out into a cold sweat and need a big drink of cool court water, wouldn’t it? Sorry, my evil twin was beside me at the time. :mrgreen:

          • She REALLY acted for the prosecutor and admitted it???
            How does a jury feel about that?
            They were asked hands up????

            But these witnesses could actually watch it and call Juan.

            • The jury didn’t see any of this, Aly. Or Sky’s testimony a few weeks later either. This was all part of an evidentiary hearing on one of Nurmi’s early motions for mistrial citing prosecutorial misconduct.

              • Journee
                They didn’t see Chris’s either?
                The hughes’s sure got off easy, didn’t they?

                That’s just NOT right!!
                I sound like a parrot, but crap,
                It’s just not right!!

                • Honestly, Aly, I don’t think either side actually wanted them in front of a jury.

                  Chris was obviously a loose cannon, because he didn’t know what the hell to say without Sky there to tell him. And then Sky gets up there and grins because it’s important to smile for the cameras, never mind whether a smile is appropriate to what she’s saying or not.

                  All anyone could count on from the two of them was that they’d be a hot mess in front of a jury.

                • He sure was lost without her. I could tell.
                  BUT, he knew the answers.

                  He acted like he and his wife never talked about it.
                  That has to be total BS!!

                • Right from the beginning Journee. : )
                  He started stuttering, could remember when he got there
                  and couldn’t remember who he talked with. Didn’t think it was Juan???
                  Memory Problems??
                  Damn, in only two day.
                  I wonder if Juan asked him about his Memory.
                  He wouldn’t dare

                • sturrering??? : )

                  Spell check would go nuts on my post. : )
                  Sorry, just try to look over them.

    • Your last sentence was perfect Justus!!!! Fantastic job as always.

      “And, finally, why oh why would someone spend the time and effort forging ten letters when two or three would most likely serve the same purpose???”

      • Well that’s just it, exactly….who forges 10 letters??? No one !!

        The letters were written between the time frame of :

        November 27, 2006 – May 27, 2008

        So a relatively substantial period of time where TA is writing letters to Jodi…..

        So undoubtedly not all the letters are admissions by TA that he is a pedophile…I would have to assume since we haven’t seen all the letters (which I would definitely like to do) is that some of those letters especially ones before January 21, 2008 when the infamous incident occurred that Jodi witnesses would be just letters that contained perhaps just niceties like planning trips/dates, how they felt about each other, their faith, etc….so for another person to forge these (someone other than Jodi) would have been really difficult if not impossible bc they would literally have to make up context and know information like dates and times, etc…So this is why if someone wants to accuse Matt of doing this that it makes no sense besides the fact that if all you are trying to do is establish an admission of pedophilia on the part of TA you could easily do this in one or two letters after the incident on January 21, 2008…

        As I have already said forging letters is a losing battle….any QDE (questioned document examiner) / handwriting expert worth his/her salt would be able to tell rather quickly if these were created using a copy/paste method…you can not hide the telltale signs of copy/paste….

        These letters IMHO are real and as Kirk Nurmi stated to Chris Hughes, the DT’s expert concluded that in all probability or words similar that these letters were written by TA.

        You have two choices if you believe they were forged:

        1) someone sat down and by hand tried to copy TA’s handwriting and style and did this for an excruciating 10 LETTERS !!!! over a substantial time frame that would have included letters before the “January 21, 2008 incident” so they would need background, context, dates, times, to make up the letters prior to the “incident”

        2) or someone copied and pasted the letters from some previous digital images or some such sample and again would still need the background, context, dates, times, to make up letters in the early going of their relationship which undoubtedly did not contain any admissions of pedophilia on the part of TA…


    • The forged letters accusation is just another lame attempt to justify and keep face for travis the pedo. It’s hard to admit that they were wrong about travis’ sainthood. It’s even harder to accept the fact that travis ‘played them all like a fiddle’. He lied to everyone and manipulated them. That mustn’t feel good for them.

      Face it peeps: TRAVIS WAS A PEDO AND HE DUPED YOU ALL. That is the truth but you can’t handle the truth.

    • Justus,

      Terrific job of stating all the elements of the absurdity of faking the letters.

      It would be as difficult to replicate his writing style as someone who didn’t know, speak or write Chinese trying to forge ten pages of single spaced Chinese hand written letters. There was even a word left out of a sentence of the alleged forgery which not even a ridiculously stupid forger would do.

      I also don’t think Alexander knew himself when he was going to capitalize a letter or use small case. Or scratch out something with his swirly circles. In addition, he would vary his writing depending on his mood and what he may have been taking or using to alter his coherence.

      I don’t know if he drank or took any drugs but on the sex tape he sure didn’t sound like he was ready to take a Mensa test.

  4. I posted this comment on May 28, 2015 @6:31pm but it disappeared for hours and I don’t know if anyone saw it. Since it relates to SJ’s message today, I thought I would repost it.

    When Journee wrote @2:28pm “She may have had them before he was killed,” suggesting that Sky Hughes may have had Travis’s journals BEFORE he was killed, and then Carol Handy wrote @ 3:58pm “In May didn’t Travis complain that his journals were stolen…,” it gave me an idea. :LOL: What if Sky Hughes or Chris Hughes had stolen Travis’s journals because they suspected him of something and wanted to go through his journals to see if they could prove or disprove something they thought about him. They may have found what they were looking for or not. But, once he was dead they saw an opportunity to continue their search by going through his Gmail to get more information or to delete information (don’t know if this is possible) related to what they had found in the journals or just to continue their search for information about Travis (not Jodi as they stated). At least this would provide an explanation why they would risk searching a dead person’s Gmail (not knowing if he was a murder victim or not at that point).

    • CC53 the only thing I disagree with you about it was pretty obvious that upon seeing the crime scene that TA was murdered. But I sure would like to know what the date was that they got into TA’s gmail. Why was the first words out of their mouths Jodi did it?? For all they know Jodi was 1026 miles away. We didn’t see any emails that show her coming to Mesa.

      Chris might have just wanted to delete evidence of some unlawful business they were involved in.

      When did the Cashes move to Utah?

      • Cindy,
        I wrote it that way because Jodi said it was self defense, not murder. But, it definitely was a scene of a violent death. I thought was interesting that when the girl/young woman made the 911 call to report Travis’s death, she suggested to the operator it was Jodi who killed Travis (less than 2 minutes into the call – I timed it). When the operator asks for Jodi’s last name, the young woman turns to the other friends of Travis: “What’s Jodi’s last name?” She knew Jodi did it, but she didn’t even know her last name.

        • CC53, now doesn’t that just speak to you? Not maybe Jodi but Jodi what ever her name is. How the hell would they know???
          Did one of the roommates know she was there? Nope…..

        • Seems to me if I remember I found it bizarre that Zach didn’t mention the slightest thing about Travis having a whopping slice in this throat.

          That just doesn’t seem like a detail that wouldn’t be mentioned on a 911 call. Or even more so, when he’s relaying information to someone else of what he’s seeing, who is then repeating to the 911 operator what he’s describing to her.

          It’s one of the first things I would have said. It’s not like he just found somebody who appeared dead from a stroke. Or that, that wouldn’t stand out and freak him out.

    • Well if someone stole TA’s journals and Sky Hughes had them for years before being forced to turn them over by a court order then……well that begs the question: How did she come into possession of the journals? If Jodi had stolen them I don’t believe she would have given them to Sky….so again the question is how did Sky end up with Travis’s journals….did she get them from TA’s house after he was killed when the friends/family/roommates were allowed in to remove personal items??? If that is the case then they were never lost to begin with and further, Det, F didn’t do his job IMHO and cease those as evidence in the case….

      • And BTW I don’t believe Jodi stole the journals……I would just like to know how Sky came into possession of those journals…..was that ever asked of her when she was on the stand??

        • The family/friends were let in on Friday, June 13, just days after the discovery of the body on late Monday, June 9 and this begs the question….was the investigation already complete by that time to the point where the family/friends could be let into the crime scene and remove personal items from the home??

        • I guess the other option would be to believe that Travis voluntarily turned his journals over to Sky Hughes….but that doesn’t make any sense either……

          • Did Sky steal his journals? His tires were slashed around then too right? Then Jodi was blamed! Maybe the cashes knew Travis had confessed to Jodi about his sins and could not have her in their group?

            • I don’t know…..and I don’t know if the tire slashing incident was around that same time period either….however, I think that someone should have found out how she came into possession of those journals….

      • BB,

        Carol Handy wrote that it was in May that Travis said his journals were stolen. I think Jodi moved to California before May and didn’t return to Travis’s place until June 4, 2008 (according to her statements). It would be great if we knew exactly when Jodi left Arizona for California and exactly when Travis reported his journals stolen. I also read an article about Dave Hall a couple of days ago in which he stated he spent a week at Travis’s house shortly before Travis was killed. I never heard that before.

        • She left in April I believe….please someone with the details check me on this…it was before May I am fairly certain though……….

          • So yes, if it was May that Travis reported his journals stolen then Jodi would have already been in CA if my memory is correct….

          • She has never given an exact date – perhaps because she left and the thing happened with the car and she had to come back and she and Travis fought both times she left. A fraught time for her, I guess. It was the first week in April is the best she’s been able to pin it down for the record I think.

        • This is the part of the article you can find at “Jodi Arias and Travis Alexander: Killer romance.”
          Dave Hall describes staying at Travis’s place for a week shortly before Travis’s death. He even visualizes Travis’s death and states he was shot first. But, when he says Travis was shot first, it may have been just the first thing that came to his mind, not a definite statement that the shot really came first.

          “That bathroom and those details are part of what haunt Dave Hall. He had stayed with Alexander shortly before he was murdered. “I was there in that house. I was staying for a whole week, there in the bedroom next door to where he was murdered. So when I watched the news broadcast, and I hear them talk about the description of the bloody palm print on the wall and in the shower and stuff — I’ve been there. I’ve stood there, I’ve touched those walls, you know, I’ve been in that bathroom. It’s like I’ve stood there, and it’s really eerie to try to get these images out of my mind of my poor friend standing there and being shot, and then stabbed, and I visualize him fighting for his life and trying to get that knife away from Jodi.”

            • This article was posted January 2, 2013 at the beginning of Jodi’s trial. Dave Hall seems to be covering his ass if any evidence shows up that he was in Travis’s house near the time of TA’s death: “I’ve been there. I stood in those halls. I touched those walls, I’ve been in that bathroom.”
              Calm down, Dave. The lead investigator is a Mormon. You’re safe. He’s not going to investigate you. Geez, you’re acting like you’re involved or something.

              • Wow, yes it just hit me that yes he does seem to want to explain why his DNA or his prints, etc. might be found there at the scene….that is creepy…there is just way too many people trying to over-explain and be sooooooo very helpful to the investigation… would be setting off fire alarms in my head if I am a law enforcement investigator…….

              • Dave Hall use to be good friends with Chris Hughes. Somewhere in the last week or so someone mentioned that they were no longer friends.
                Whose bedroom was Dave Hall sleeping in? When did Enrique move into his room? Were they the same room?
                Sounds a little weird to me. Sounds even weirder that Dave Hall could vision the crime scene.
                Was Dave allowed to use Travis’ bathroom area? How else could this man be so familiar with the crime scene?
                And why would he be talking about it?
                Too many questions that go unanswered for so many years?

                • Oh, and Hall made a bit of a media buffoon of himself – like that’s anything the Hugheses should be embarrassed about since they did it themselves – but then Dave and his merry band of boys (scouting group, yah right) toppled a ‘goblin’ in a state park in Utah and got in some trouble for it, scouts dumped him, I dunno if I ever heard whether charges were actually brought against him or not.
                  Anyhoo – CH unfriended him after that.

                • Ditto that Carol ! Way too many unanswered questions that were never asked or investigated………the layers of this stinky onion need to be pulled back and the truth exposed about everything……..

                • Interrogation Video #14 (Transcript – 09:26)
                  JA: “And if I’m correct, then Enrique’s has the room that shares the wall with Travis’ room, which is fine, and you know, it’s a KB home. Travis used to say the walls are really, really thin.”

                  Would Jodi’s statement indicate Enrique had the same room that Dave Hall had stayed in at some point? Dave Hall described the room he stayed in as “the bedroom next door to where he was murdered.” If so, whenever Dave Hall stayed at Travis’s place, it wasn’t during the last 2 weeks of TA’s life.
                  BTW, I’m not thinking of Dave as a murder suspect. I’m thinking more that he might have access to Travis’s journals if he stayed there shortly before Enrique moved in (if it was sometime in early May, 2008 that Dave visited TA).
                  I noticed Dave Hall mentioned he lived close to Ryan Burns in one article. I wonder where Chris & Sky Hughes lived at that time? Were they all living in the same area?

                • CC53 – when Travis died CASH were still living in Murietta CA, but I think maybe some of CH’s brothers might have been living in Utah by then. I think Sky’s brother (ZION) probably was because he was he’s the one that encouraged Ryan to call Jodi. But then again, that may all have happened in Mesa because I think Ryan said that the party he was attending at the time – when Zion tried to hook him up with Jodi – happened at Dave’s mother’s house. And I thought Mimi lived with her mother just a few blocks from Travis.

                  of course Gus might have been wrong about Dave and Mimi being brother and sister

                • Is it at all possible that Dave Hall (if he was Mimi’s brother) while staying at Travis’ and living in the room adjacent to Travis’ bedroom, saw the journals and took them?

                • Wonder why Sky would have wanted to set Jodi up with anyone if they truly thought she was crazy? That makes absolutely no sense to me. Sky must have thought Jodi was crazy at all then. Lies, lies and more lies. Unless, they knew Ryan would back them up on anything and everything…….makes one wonder. For me the premeditation seemed to be by the Hughes duo instead of Jodi. Keeping Travis’s journals, cleaning up his computer, pointing fingers at Jodi as being guilty and always protesting to much about everything.

                • R.Love,

                  I agree with you about the premeditation with that whole group.
                  NOW, that makes sense.
                  These people are idiots. They try to run everyone’s like.
                  They’re all like busy bodies.

                  Tell TA she’s the one for you, then you better get away from her?
                  Jodi must feel so used by this whole bunch of idiots.

          • I guess a UFC addict that is so into it he had parties at his house for other UFC nuts to watch it with him, didn’t think to kick her in the knee.

            • Exactly, Jade. The fact that he was not able to do her damage is an indicator that she was avoiding contact with him as much as possible until the final moments when she had no choice but the go ballistic on him. And for those who say, so why didn’t she just run out the door – you weren’t there nor do you know what was going on in Jodi’s head. She may have thought the violence was over when he paused at the sink. And she may have not had an opportunity to escape when he obviously attacked her the second time.

            • Jade,
              I tried to find a video re: what to do if you’re attacked by someone with a knife. Every video I saw was by someone with a lot of training and fancy moves. But, they all stood face-to-face within reach of the knife and relied on their skills and swiftness to avoid the knife. If I was attacked by someone with a knife, I would run away. If I couldn’t do that and there was nothing I could use as a weapon, I think I would lie down on my back and kick as the attacker came at me. The main thing is to keep vital parts of the body away from the knife – the neck, the aorta, the heart, etc. I don’t know how well this would work but you would be able to kick at his groin, his kneecaps, sweep at his lower legs, try to knock him off his feet and then run away. If it was a woman, I would do the same thing except for the groin kick. In reality, I would probably freeze in terror and be killed quickly.

              • Kicking to the knee will take down the biggest attacker even if they were with the mafia.

                Kick boxers in matches kick to the back of the knee and cause the other fighters to quit because they can’t stand up. They get a charley horse very quickly.

                In most kickboxing, martial arts, full contact karate venues, they are not even allowed to kick to the knee joint because the knee will break.

                It’s absurd Travis wouldn’t have known that. And he was STANDING at the sink ! If he whirled around and gave one kick to the front of the knee ANYPLACE, there wouldn’t have been no more stabbing or anything else.

  5. Why was this not let in? Grrr… It is quite obvious that Mr. Hughes was being evasive. This would have proven that Jodi was telling the truth about Travis. I wonder how the Jurors would feel about this if they ever stumble upon it. It screams APPELLATE to me. Poor Jodi. I wish I could give her a hug.

    • I believe it was not allowed in under the guise that the letters were not relevant and that they could not authenticate them…both of which is false….

    • Unfortunately Cindy, it seems that everyone wanting to kill Jodi was living in their own lying bubble world. But lies don’t grow old… the more they tried to keep the truth about travis the more of travis’s double life came out. They fucked up completely! Way to go friends and family of travis alexander! Nice way of respecting your dead friend and sibling!

      • ((((Pandora)))) I really miss you.

        Your post is so accurate. If the family doesn’t think that their friends and coworkers aren’t going to be whispering behind the backs, they are in for a rude awakening. Ya nice legacy for your kids about their uncle!!!

  6. Re watching the above ‘Best of chris hughes bullshit’ testimony refreshed my mind about what a fucking hypocritical LYING son of a bitch he is!

    In about a total of 20 min he asked Nurmi to “Ask the question” again 7 FUCKING TIMES, not because he didn’t understand the questions BUT because he was so stressed on not going ‘off script’ and focusing on the lies he’d spew that he couldn’t focus on the what Nurmi was asking him.

    It was also convenient that he “Didn’t know” (said 8 TIMES) who his wife spoke with and what they said although he previously said that they were both fixated on the trial. So tell me folks: Does he actually want us to believe that skye didn’t call him the moment she hung up with the prosecution’s office to tell him the news??? GMAFB!

    As for the famous ‘forged’ letters? Well, if the HUGHES say they were forged, then that must be the case, right? (I can practically taste my sarcasm). I wonder who appointed the Hughes detectives to investigate the letters? But hey, one pedo lover has to have another pedo lover’s back, doesn’t he?

    The funniest part is martinez objecting to “relevance” about travis’s abusive manner towards Jodi. HELLO-OOOO! If travis’s abuse to Jodi wasn’t relevant, then I don’t know what the hell was! MARTINEZ, YOU ARE A FUCKING DIPSHIT. EAT SHIT ASSHOLE!

    Closing up: chris hughes has the fucking audacity to call Gus an attention seeker? What a fucking hypocrite! ATTENTION WHORE HUGHES calls others attention seekers. 🙄

    People will ask me why I’m so pissed at almost everyone on travis’s side. Lemme tell you: I have nothing personal with them. Don’t know them and will be a happy camper if eventually they fade away totally and don’t have to hear about them again. BUT when you see people LYING their asses off (UNDER OATH), using all the tricks in the book to dehumanize Jodi, and making a fucking BROKEN person like travis was into a saint, that pisses me off! They think they’re above the law because they’ve got money and are protected by their mormon cult. BULLSHIt. Karma baby, comes in all forms and colors and never forgets anyone! 😉

    (((Jodi))) ♥

    • Roger that girlfriend.

      Strap him to a lie detector and the needle would be vacillating so much, the box would explode.

      Either one of em.

    • Truth !! Sanctimonious piece of crap, lying for lds..or enterprises that would be uncovered by Travis emails and journal.

      He does have a tell.. the shaking of his leg after lying. classic

      • Pandora,
        That says it in a nutshell!!
        So the nut job has to have side bars?
        She can’t just sustain or over rule!
        If I were her, I would be screaming answer the damn question asshole.
        Enough of the side bars.

        Since this is one of the know it alls about TA and Jodi, she should have
        been harder on him.

        I know she’s stupid, but is she deaf?

        • Aly, I’m not defending JSS but KN was walking a type rope when questing chunky aka ch. The letter was not admitted into evidence as we all know. JM was having a breakdown during the interchange of chunky and KN. So I think that is why she had sidebars to discuss how far KN could go with his line of questioning. IMHO.

          But in the end KN got what he wanted…proved ch was a liar.

  7. Looking forward to again seeing Chunk Hughes shitting a brick, during the 8 minute stall fest. The guy is so slimy. The truth is the truth, why does he need to think so much about it? He can’t take back what he put into writing (emails) just because his sicko friend is dead. That doesn’t erase what was said. It is what it is Chunk. Your friend pushed our precious Jodi one too many times.

  8. Chunk was putting on a show for the trial watchers. He’s trying to be such a bad ass and a tough guy. HAHAHHAHAHAH

  9. Another thought regarding the so-called forgery –

    Why would a forger, right out of the gate, supply an incorrect date? Wouldn’t they be concentrating hard on making it look authentic and wouldn’t a correct date be somewhat essential to that end? Instead they immediately provide a wrong date? Puh-leazzz!

    • I think that the wrong date is explained by the fact that a lot of people write the previous year out of habit during the first month of the new year….and yes if you were bent on forging a letter you would make sure you had your dates correct….you would be obsessive about making sure that the dates are correct….

      • Exactly. Only someone writing the letter on 1/21/2008 would mistakenly write 1/21/2007. Maybe if the forger was writing the letter on that date (can’t imagine why) would they maybe make that mistake. But even that is highly unlikely if they are trying to scam people into believing an untruth.

        • I believe I heard Chris Hughes say he decided it was a forgery BECAUSE of the date. Idiot! Can’t think beyond his hate to realize that’s exactly an indication that it’s not a forgery.

            • WOW!!!
              We knew he had issues, but………………..

              That was real!

              After that, they said it was something he wouldn’t say! REALLY????

              Didn’t he also say the letters were fake because, THEY wouldn’t allow them in?

                • And yes Sky states that they knew he had problems…..and thanked KN for sending the letters to them….it was the truth…

                • At first he says his wife been watching very closely, then it was WE’VE been watching very closely, SO he knew what she did.
                  Did he or Sky ever take a lie detector test?

                  He so testy and not even a juror in there!!

                • BB,
                  who made that decission that they couldn’t come in because they were fake?
                  Do you know?

              • No I don’t think either one took a lie detector test and I was thinking the same thing about how defensive, arrogant, and evasive he sounded when trying to answer simple questions from Kirk Nurmi……

                • When you sound like hughes, you can very well tell he knows more about the murder than we think and that’s a sound of coverup to me.
                  Wish the jury had been in there.

                • I noticed and we all know that when you have nothing to hide, you can answer the questions without the stuttering, looking at Jaun for help and being so SURE Jodi killed his friend.
                  He KNOWS what happened. Damn, I’m mad!!!

  10. I can’t get my head around how the character of both parties involved is not relevant in a self-defense case? It would not be relevant only if it had already been decided that it was murder. But that had not yet been decided on by the jury. This also goes back to that other major bone I have to pick – jerks like Martinez referring to Travis as “the victim” throughout the whole first trial. Who the real victim was had not yet been determined but it sure helped to prejudice the jury into thinking that it obviously was murder since Travis was a named victim.

  11. It has been suggested that a knife was the main weapon used to kill Travis Alexander because the gun “jammed.” This article, if I understand it correctly, seems to cast some doubt on that theory. It gives 3 reasons guns jam:
    1. Failure to feed
    2. Failure to extract
    3. Failure to eject
    It appears, in all 3 of these reasons, THE SHELL CASING IS NOT EJECTED FROM THE GUN. But, we know the shell casing was ejected when Travis was shot because, as Jade pointed out recently, it was clearly visible in the photos. This suggests several possibilities. I know Al knows something about guns because we (and BeeCee?) talked a lot about the gun and bullets in early 2013.

  12. (I tried to sent this about 1.5 hours ago – 2nd try)

    It has been suggested that a knife was the main weapon used to kill Travis Alexander because the gun “jammed.” This article, if I understand it correctly, seems to cast some doubt on that theory. It gives 3 reasons guns jam:
    1. Failure to feed
    2. Failure to extract
    3. Failure to eject
    It appears, in all 3 of these reasons, THE SHELL CASING IS NOT EJECTED FROM THE GUN. But, we know the shell casing was ejected when Travis was shot because, as Jade pointed out recently, it was clearly visible in the photos. This suggests several possibilities. I know Al knows something about guns because we (and BeeCee?) talked a lot about the gun and bullets in early 2013.

  13. There’s a book called “Protecting Your Children From Sexual Predators” by Dr. Leigh M. Baker and in it Dr. Baker gives tips on spotting a sexual predator.

    -Often offend where they won’t get caught-when they have misdirected people’s attention
    -Often married or in relationships
    -Offend when the victim is handy
    -Not always strangers, often family members, family friends and neighbors
    -Most attracted to adults
    -Good manipulators (seduction is an integral part)
    -Overly self-indulgent
    -Sexualize, objectify women
    -Users of various kinds of pornography
    -Typically known as rationalizers, intellectualizers, justifiers
    -Great helpers-are there to lend a helping hand-prey on people in need, when they can insinuate themselves in your life
    -Use stressful and vulnerable situations to get in-they find a need they can fill and they use that to get next to the victim

    Dr. Frank Lawlis says there are some common characteristics of sexual predators:

    -Refusal to take responsibility for actions and blames others or circumstances for failures
    -A sense of entitlement
    -Low self-esteem
    -Need for power and control
    -Lack of empathy
    -Inability to form intimate relationships with adults
    -History of abuse
    -Troubled childhood
    -Deviant sexual behavior and attitudes

  14. It has been suggested that a knife was the main weapon used to kill Travis Alexander because the gun “jammed.” This article, if I understand it correctly, seems to cast some doubt on that theory. It gives 3 reasons guns jam:
    1. Failure to feed
    2. Failure to extract
    3. Failure to eject
    It appears, in all 3 of these reasons, THE SHELL CASING IS NOT EJECTED FROM THE GUN. But, we know the shell casing was ejected when Travis was shot because, as Jade pointed out recently, it was clearly visible in the photos. This suggests several possibilities. I know Al knows something about guns because we (and BeeCee?) talked a lot about the gun and bullets in early 2013.
    Article: “Why your semi-auto pistol jams” by Gordon Hutchinson (I’ve tried to post this x 2 today in hypertext without any luck so I just decided to write out the title)

    • I tried to reply to this earlier today but got a 404 error when I clicked to post comment, so here it goes again.

      We know one bullet was fired because it ended up in Travis’ cheek, so that would account for the casing.

      Couldn’t the gun have jammed – failed to feed or failed to extract – when the trigger was pulled a second time?

      • Journee,
        I wrote a long reply but lost it.
        Yes, the gun could have jammed on the 2nd shot. BUT, according to the article, 2 of the 3 reasons for a gun jamming have to do with the preceding shot, i.e., the extractor or ejecting mechanism fails on the first shot leaving the casing trapped in the gun preventing a second shot. In this case, both of these mechanisms appeared to work perfectly since the casing ended up on the floor. The first reason for a gun jamming had to do with Failure to Feed which can generally be attributed to “a dirty chamber, thus keeping the round from seating properly, or damaged magazine lips, causing the round to be misaligned as it is picked up by the slide and carried to the chamber.” It appears the chamber wasn’t dirty if the first bullet fired OK although maybe it damaged the magazine lips (I don’t know how this type of damage occurs). It states that “riding the slide” is the most common reason for a Failure to Feed jam. As far as I could understand, this appears more related to the person who is shooting the gun either doing something wrong or failing to perform a maneuver correctly rather than a defect in the gun itself. There is a video on Youtube explaining what “riding the slide” is but I’d have to look at it more closely to really understand what it means.
        So, yes, it’s possible the gun jammed on the second shot but since everything worked perfectly on the first shot, and the gun didn’t need the extractor or ejecting mechanisms to work to fire a second shot, is it probable? I don’t know.

  15. Good Morning and Happy April 1st.
    After my omission yesterday of my long held theory that TA. did something to one of the cashes kids was wrong. I never know about the email Sky sent to KN. But I have to say there is and always has been something very odd going on with the cashes. They sure were playing the “lead” detectives from the beginning.
    You have both of them lying on the stand and even on HLN. Yup there is something not right with these two.

    Could it be possible that perhaps Deanna has the “missing” Journal that Travis talked about? She had a open roadway to TA now that Lisa and Jodi were out of the picture?? Poor girl she couldn’t get it through her head he didn’t want her.
    I read one of TA’s journal entries: Now with Jodi gone and Deanna leaving in a few weeks, there will be no more drama…I miss Lisa. Now what part of that statement says he’s in love with Deanna?? That’s the BS Sky was saying on the dark side the other day. Jodi couldn’t deal with the fact that TA loved Deanna.

    Then we have the email Sky sent to TA about how he was treating not only Jodi but other girls. Then they said it was written because Jodi lied to them about TA. Humm.. Sorry you can’t take the words back.

    • Deanna could not hold a candle to Jodi. . . Travis could have married Deanna many times. He didn’t want her. He really didn’t want anyone but himself. . .that is who he was in love with. Jodi tried so hard to move on. Travis is the reason he is dead. His own actions brought on his death. How many times have I wished Jodi had never given him the time of day!!!!!!???? Jodi was too good for that whole crowd. People who associate themselves with the Hughes should take a step back and ask themselves, WHY???? I believe they were the beginning of the end for Travis. They gave him goals in life that he would in no way ever master to their demands. He seemed to be seeking their approval in all he did. That is why he kept secrets from them. He didn’t want to let them know he was failing. Their friendship and scams started him spiraling out of control. What was it that Sky had going on with him to keep confiding in her? That is not normal. I believe she is the witch with magic powers. 🙄 There is way more to the story and I believe they are deep rooted in the middle of it.

  16. Guns jam when there is poor ammo or a weak firing pin hit. Small cal. jam much more then big….more prone to dirt and small parts that are weak. Plus if Your hand gets in the way of the slide….that can and will cause a jam and may not hurt one bit….remember small cal. ARE weak. Now on to the fight… WELL we do know from his own yap he loved to fight. In such a fight …continual….I,ve seen how the attacker gets all the damage and his victim….NONE! RAGE! when You lose it You LOSE. Ihave watched two such fights and had the displeasure of being in one……he never got one hit on me but his pals (5) made up for his lack of skills….and if I had not stopped the fight after getting back up for the 6 th time then I had made up my mind I was going to end this once and for all. he saved himself that day by walking away…real fast with his pals. Don,t ever blame any for saving themselves unless Yo,ve been there done that. I would NEVER want to re-live that day. A year later I told him as far as I,m concerned it,s OVER…and he was more then O.K. with that.

  17. Not changing the subject really, it is all about the facts not being rationally fitted to the truth.

    Back to my favorite topic: Time of Death.
    Suddenly, while reading the information Detective Flores gave the Court in regards to the murder of Travis Alexander (Chronis hearing I think), I realized that Detective Flores did not reiterate his belief that the body was dead 1-2 days. He just states the murder was committed on June 4, 2008.
    How can he be justified in saying that to the Court? If he originally said 1-2 days (in his investigative report), how could that jump to 5 days?
    There was no forensic evidence provided to change the initial report to his report to the Court. Dr. Horn never gave a time of death. How and why did his original opinion change? It just doesn’t smell right to me.

    • He didn’t repeat that part of his report about it being 1-2 days bc at that point it didn’t fit the prosecution’s theory so he had to leave that out…..this is the problem from the get go…..the state kept pushing their theory despite the facts and evidence instead of letting the evidence lead them to the truth which is what investigating is all about….they were only concerned with winning at any costs….they are souless…IMHO

      • ….he didn’t supplement his original report to change his observations at the scene that TA appeared to have been dead 1-2 days….of course he would never be able to do this without appearing like a flat out liar bc he could not possibly go back to June 9, 2008 at re-observe the crime scene as it was on that day….so he was stuck just omitting that little bit of information in front of the court….it was lying by omission in my opinion…..he intended for the court to believe that TA had been dead 5 days when in fact in his report he states it appeared he had only been dead 1-2 days….so you see you can lie by commission or omission but either way it is still lying……

        • So very true, BB, lying and cheating is the only way they ‘won’ a conviction. It is so very sad. Not a good thing for the people who have to deal with the legal system. We all have to be wary of the courts because of just that…lying and cheating…

          • Plus Carol,
            They get away with perjury???

            There is no justice system here. To say there is,
            is a lie flat on it’s face.

  18. Journee,
    Didn’t you make a comment late last night that neither the prosecution nor the defense wanted Chris and Sky Hughes to testify? Did you have the comment removed? I can’t seem to find it this morning.

    • That’s where avatars come in handy – look for the little Lucy face to the right of my posts, lol.

      I found it, and rather than give you directions I’ll copy it here::

      Journee says:
      March 31, 2015 at 9:15 pm
      Honestly, Aly, I don’t think either side actually wanted them in front of a jury.

      Chris was obviously a loose cannon, because he didn’t know what the hell to say without Sky there to tell him. And then Sky gets up there and grins because it’s important to smile for the cameras, never mind whether a smile is appropriate to what she’s saying or not.

      All anyone could count on from the two of them was that they’d be a hot mess in front of a jury.

      • Thanks, Journee. I looked for that comment several times and couldn’t see it. I need to get a “looking for comments” intern.

      • As for using an avatar, I use a different name on Twitter, a different name on Youtube, a different name on Disqus, a different name on FB, etc. and I found the avatar I used popped up on some sites linking all the different names I used. So, I stopped using one.

        • Oh, I wasn’t saying you should use one – just saying you probably would have found my post by looking for little Lucy faces. That’s how I found it.

  19. In relation to reasons why Dave Hall might have taken Travis’s journals…Dave knew or suspected how Travis treated women and wanted to check out what was going on between Mimi and Travis or at least what Travis was thinking about or planning for Mimi. If Mimi is Dave’s sister, I don’t imagine he wanted anyone messing wih her. Or, maybe he was looking for some information that was PPL-related.

    • okay, yeah, duh – I guess it does matter whether he’s related to Mimi or not

      The thing is – I can’t figure out why anyone would take Travis’ journals to look for anything bad about Travis. A journal is a place where one might write their private thoughts, or even make negative observations about others, but I don’t think anyone is likely to record something bad that they’ve done. Vague allusions to guilty feelings, maybe, but not specifics about bad acts. Because you never know when someone might read them.

      And it’s been my impression – don’t know how accurate the impression is – that Mormon journaling is to record a – I dunno – spiritual journey? Record events that make an impact for future messages in church?

      Just my thoughts – been rolling that around in my head as to why anyone would have wanted T’s journals. Why Sky had them, etc. Maybe your PPL point is valid.

      • Why would anyone want Travis journals?

        Humm, Well, should a brother have sudden access to his sister’s suitor’ journals, read things that disturbed him, gave them to his sister to read, is a possible reason.

        • Well….
          Just running with a ‘story’ let’s say Dave gave the journals to Mimi, she read them, told Sky she had read them…asked what she should do with them….Sky says I’ll take them…just running with the ‘story’.

  20. The only reason really that people want to read other people’s journals is bc they want to find some type of information that they may be concerned about… anyone was concerned about TA’s activities then they may have felt that reading his journals may give them some insight…..I believe that not only the Hughes were concerned about TA’s behavior but perhaps Mr. Hall was concerned about his sister being involved with TA….Sky herself said she would “not allow” her little sister to even become interested in Travis bc she knew how badly and abusively TA treated women….so it makes sense that Mr. Hall would have that same concern after all they all ran in the same social circles and knew about each other……

    • In spite of all their protestations and wildly positive comments, it is hardly likely that Travis’ looking for a ‘good Mormon wife’ didn’t leave them wondering ‘what’s taking him so long to find the right wife’.
      The roommates had to realize there were several women he was cavorting with, who came on nights Jodi wasn’t there.
      IMVHO, they all knew a lot about Travis. The idea that no one ‘socialized’ in that house is ridiculous; of course they knew each others comings and goings. Didn’t have to talk about it, but they knew. John Hepworth tried to warn Jodi about Travis’ other girlfriends before she left Mesa. They all knew.

      • Why is it so important to Mormons that they keep a jounal?
        Jodi never kept one until after TA asked her to.
        It was like a Mormon thing.

        Some people have jounals for business or their work days, dreams and stuff.
        I get that, but WHY your personal feelings or whatever about yourself?

        Didn’t TA ask Jodi about hers and she said she was trying to
        make or keep one?

  21. Does anyone know if Travis had air conditioning in his house? I had a reply to Carol Handy’s comment on the renters not smelling the odor of Travis’s body but it disappeared.

    • Yes there was air conditioning and I believe that a long while back that was brought up as a reason why perhaps the body did not decompose as quickly and thus perhaps that was why it appeared he had only been dead for 1-2 days and why the roommates didn’t smell the body….however, I don’t buy this at all….the air conditioning would have had to have been cranked down to below 50 degrees to have made much of a difference in the decomposition rate….. and if the air conditioning was on which undoubtedly it was (but I doubt if it was set at 49 degrees) since it was June in Mesa, AZ you have interconnecting vents running throughout the home and the rooms so it would have definitely spread the odor quickly…so them saying they didn’t really notice any smell during that time period means either they are lying or don’t have any ability to smell or the body was there a much shorter time period before discovery….this is all my opinion of course…..the temperature thing is something I had previously researched about body decomposition when this subject came up previously////…..

      • The mathematical answer:
        The event took place on June 4 = The smell is apparent 36 hours later = Friday, June 6 smells bad!!
        The smells bad on June 9 = The event took place 36 hours before = Saturday June 7.

        • Well that’s just it we don’t know bc Dr. Horn did not state any time of death and Flores backtracked on his own report stating it was 1-2 days or appeared to be 1-2 days….THE WHOLE THING SMELLS TO HIGH HEAVEN !!!!!

        • BB, I did a lot of searching for the number of hours it would take before the smell of decomposition would appear. I found that by 36 hours the smell is unbearable. If I could find that information, wouldn’t it be something a paralegal could find? It concerns me that the defense was so blind to obvious questions. They didn’t read the Flores Report and then question his testimony. That is horrible. Just horrible..

          • No decomposition scent detected by renters/renter’s girlfriends, no report of “bugs” on body and none of Travis’s friends contacting his renters to check on him. Seems kind of strange to say the least.

            • just caught the beginning of an NCIS when I was in the kitchen assembling meat loaf

              a pair of women’s legs are found in the woods… the skin and tissue are several days decomposed but the ‘wet’ areas (where the legs were severed from the torso) show no insect activity

              conclusion – woman was dead several days before someone cut her legs off and put them in the woods

              • That’s just it Carol,

                That’s why I keep going back to Jodi saying she wasn’t there OR
                intriuders and I’m talking about all of TA’s mormon friends.
                They all know.Plus, they always look for a motive?
                They have it.

                I’m not trying to peddle anything, I just happen to believe Jodi.
                She wouldn’t have waited 2 years to say she did it.
                The ass detective told her no one would believe her story BUT
                they would believe this one???

                PLUS, yes I do believe TA abused her mentally and phsically.
                He treated her like shit, but Jodi thought she could help him.
                Like so many women do, it isn’t uncommon.

                When she saw she couldn’t she was ready to move on.
                And that’s what she was planning to do.
                Those pictures that they showed didn’t prove a thing.

                That IMO is WHY this case is so maddening.

                A person that loves photograpy ISN’T going to put
                a camera in the washer.
                That NEVER made any sense, PLUS the camera jumping around taking pictures???
                Kodak has really gotten brilliant.

                • It is almost comical, isn’t it? How the story was made up? Right from the start?
                  At least, if it wasn’t such a disturbing story, it could be a humorous one.
                  As it is, it is so full of errors, lies, scams… it makes me ill.

                • Yes, Jade went thoroughly over the camera/photographs before and I agree that those photos don’t prove anything especially since it looks like the date stamps were altered or added to them (refer back to Jade’s article – “Michael Melendez – Perjury Exposed” – I am pretty sure this is the post that talks in depth about the camera/photos)………..

                • Yes, when Jade posted the so-called ‘dragging picture’ it was eye-opening!
                  The photograph clearly showed that Travis was alive.
                  It had to be taken by someone behind him.
                  I’m curious as to why this picture was taken, and why.
                  In any case, Martinez story of it being Jodi dragging a body was a LIE.
                  Then all the pictures are LIES.

                • But, Carol
                  They LIE!!
                  WHY, because they can.
                  They never are charged for perjury.
                  If ever, what was their punishment?

                  Actually, that’s ALL the state had about everything
                  were lies.
                  But, the thought of Jodi if ONE lie, she perjured herself.
                  She MUST be hanged!

                • All of Travis’s friends said Jodi did it and then they discovered the pictures and went with it. Instead of doing a full investigation, they decided we can just pin it on Jodi with lies and deception if need be. I mean I am not sure if Jodi did this in self defense or if she was set-up. Either way, this case stinks so bad even though Travis’s roomies couldn’t smell it. ( tee-hee couldn’t help myself )

            • Coldcase53, I don’t believe in coincidences when it comes to this stuff…..this is evidence pointing the investigation in a direction but the detective in charge failed to follow the evidence and instead they tried to make the evidence fit the state’s theory….they never looked at anyone else seriously in this case but Jodi…..

              • All IMHO of course…….

                And I believe it was one of TA’s friends that said that he was expected at a meeting of some sort that day, June 4, but didn’t show up….well if I am a friend of TA’s or a bff, I would have followed up on that….CH said TA didn’t return calls or texts…so if it’s me I am personally going over there to knock on his door to see what’s up….or I can’t personally do it I get someone close by to do that just so I know he is not on the floor with an accident, etc…just lying there waiting for someone to help him…..

                • He was supposed to host a conference call, which CH was presumably concerned enough about to have spoken to Travis around mid-day to confirm – that’s what he told Flores anyway.

                  So why was he suddenly NOT concerned when the conference all didn’t happen? I mean, TA made it sound like CH was a bit of a hard-ass, as bosses go. So why no follow-up on the missed conference call?

                • Exactly – he should have been concerned enough to follow up and have someone go over there for him to check on him since he said that he couldn’t get TA to respond to emails/texts, etc…

                • And I believe he said he did that (asked someone to go over and check on him) but it was days later….why wait days especially since he wasn’t answering any of your calls/texts/emails, etc in the meantime…..

                • MAYBE, at least call his ROOMMATES!!!!
                  These friends sure do have a way of showing it.
                  CH wouldn’t testify for Jodi because she killed “HIS FRIEND”?
                  He knows better.
                  That’s really why he’s watching it so intently.

                  When did he even care that something happened to “his friend”

                  Missing for how long? AND he just didn’t care about his “socalled Ffriend”

    • Hi CC… yes, there was a big air con vent directly above the main bedroom doors — which was right at the top of the main staircase that everyone used countless times from June 4th. Later in the week I’ll post some pics of the house interior, and how it looked after CSI had finished.

      Team Jodi #WINNING <<<

  22. Well I’m home after taking mom out shopping, hair cut and Pt. I am happy to report it is 65 out and sunny. I’m sure some of you are allot warmer but I live in Mich.

    So interesting conversation going on. DAVE Hall….I don’t think he’d be thrilled with his sister dateing TA if in fact Mimi is indeed his sister. I’m not feeling the Dave took the Journal. I know Jodi didn’t because they would have found them when they search her grandparents home.
    Besides the fact that TA didn’t say anything until she was long gone. So how did Sky end up with them….hummm

    The weather in AZ at the time TA died was in the 100s.

  23. Just a question.. or.. what the opinion is on ppl who don’t report a child being sexually abused.. or even warning the parents that someone u know is sexually interested in ur child.. why didn’t Jodi warn the Hughes that she knew this about Travis

      • Coz I can answer this question for ya but first I wanna see if YOU have tried to answer it before asking us.

        • ((((Maria)))). Believe me they are running rapid….. Humm I can answer that for you.
          Why didn’t the Bishop who had child porn on his computer report TA?? Long before Jodi came into the picture!!!

          • Exactly!!

            And NO, we are not deflecting. It’s 2,5 years later. Both sides are sticking to their beliefs. No TA supporter is gonna change their mind as *I* am not gonna change mine, right?

            So for a NEWCOMER to come and ask this so late into the game is just a poignant indicator that he/she may be a mole. The comment *may* have gotten through but I will NOT waste any precious time replying to it.

            Oh. And anyone’s willing to believe what they want.

        • Cindy,
          Don’t worry about your brain cells.
          What I remeber was Jodi (I believe ) testified OR said something about TA asking her about her journal and she said something to the fact that she had been trying to keep it or keep up with it.
          I just thought why worry about someone else’s journal.

  24. I see that the dark side is still claiming the date on the letter is proof that Jodi (or someone for Jodi) forged the letter. (Geez Louise! These people don’t have the brains God gave a goose!) And on top of that, they are claiming the darker ink on some words is proof that the words were copied & pasted from different documents. Do they really think a forger would take different looking words from different documents and try to pass it off as a forgery? Have none of them ever written a word incorrectly in ink and corrected it by writing over it? If the forger actually got these words from Travis’ actual writings, it would appear that Travis is someone who did exactly that. So how come it doesn’t prove that this was Travis’ style and therefore he was the author? What’s wrong with these people?

  25. I found this interesting to watch. I live about 30 minutes from this place and knew they have solved many
    cases of identity through out Dr. Bass’s research. Just thought you all might like to see it. Wonder what he would think. The University of TN studies all kinds of dead bodies and different stages of decomposition indoors and outdoors.

  26. Hello my “team Jodi ” friends… It’s been awhile since I have checked in but believe me I am faithfully reading all your posts at night! Finally out of my boot cast and free to walk again without the limp(wink)!

    How you tell me how the roommate that was across the hall from TA room didn’t smell a DEAD body is mind blowing. Also the dog would of been going ape shit with the smell ( dogs senses are way stronger than humans)! Why these roommates where never put on trial is baffling!!! This entire plot was rigged up and Jodi took the fall!!!!! CH and Sky are knee deep in their lies and very involved with this murder bc they set it ! Just follow the trail……. From CA to AZ to UT to Mexico .. Same with Deanna who moved abruptly two weeks b4 the murder!!!!!! C’,mon folks these peeps( and now the cute soft ones you get at Easter) in this plot!!!!! Either because he molested their kid, because he was knee deep in debt, or for money!!!!

    Now for the hand writing and letters … It doesn’t take a rock scientist to figure out who wrote these letters!! It was clearly TA… TA right handed and Jodi left handed! Language doesn’t match Jodi either!! Now who has those hard copies( I am assuming Sandy or Matt) !

    This is a Mormon Mafia that went wrong and convicted innocent young lady to spare their plot and gain! There is no way she slit his throat and put him in the shower !i will never believe that story because she didn’t have the strength or TIME with the roommate do home! Anyone could of walked through TA doors at any given moment bc he had an open door policy for his pad!

    Lets not forget about Ashley’s death! This also is connected…..

    • FUJUAN,
      I agree with you and there really is a Mormon Mafia! So, how many or who is
      going to have what it takes to go up against them?

      They never REALLY investigated anyone.
      What proof they try to say that it was Jodi is a joke.
      I don’t understand how a jury didn’t see though all of their lies.

    • Remember the CAtholic Church and how the priest got into all kind of trouble?
      No one was protecting them and the media was all over them.
      But, not this one?

      Also W Jeffers, same thing, but media is very hushed about this one?

    • (((FUJAUN))). I was just talking about you and here you are!!! So happy you are healing so well.
      You know I believe the same way. But I had to through the TA did something to the cashes kid because of Sky’s reaction to KN sending the confession letter to her. Her wording in the email back to KN debunks that for me. I was thinking something to do with Deanna also. The rush out of town wasn’t so rushed. TA wrote in his Journal right after Jodi left town:(I’m paraphrasing) Jodi’s gone and Deanna’s leaving in a few weeks…No more drama!!! I miss Lisa.
      I’m not saying the cashes or Deanna are off the hook. They know something!!!

      I do not believe for one minute that Jodi killed TA. She might have thought she did??
      But I’m not buying it for all the same reasons you stated. I’m sorry but Jodi would have been beat up physically and the brides would have shown. Ryan B. Would have noticed. Dave Hall thought it was strange that Jodi had a long sleeved blouse on when they all meant to eat. many women complain because they are cold when the air conditioner blowing full force?? As for the tape on her figures….It leads me to ask when did Jodi stop to get the surgical tape or did she just carry it around in her backpack??

      We all know that TA looked at child porn on his computer. I can not believe these are free sites. He would have to use a credit card to gain access to these sites. We never heard anything about his bank account. But then again he wasn’t the one on trial.

      So now the Mormon mafia?? I just don’t know. I don’t know enough about it to even form a opinion. I do feel very strongly that the neck cut was done by a Mormon. Jodi could never have done this!!! Even if she did do some of it she would never have done that.

      OK some one explain to me where all the water came from in the hallway? Not from that little glass in the shower. seriously Jodi going to run back and forth to fill that glass. Even a towel wouldn’t hold enough to saturate the carpet. Just a few thoughts.

      • In fact to me all these attempts at washing up, and also possibly the whole dragging into the shower bit actually talk to a un-premeditated situation.

        If this was truly M1 she would have shot the guy when she got there, right at the door, and left. Let’s say she didn’t do it then, but later – she would have still shot the guy and left.

        But if this happened by way of a sudden quarrel or heat of passion type of situation, there might have been some sort of frenzied, half baked idea that maybe, just maybe I can clean up this mess and leave. The dragging into the shower could just be to get the body out of the way while she thought she could clean up. This may not even have been a conscious decision, but some sort of semi-instinctive type thing. A sort of “Crap, crap, crap …. let me see if I can clean up this mess” type gut reaction. That would explain the stuff in the washer, the attempts to pour water all over the place possibly to try mop up stuff, and the dragging into the shower, all done in a haphazard, frenzied sort of way.

        And then either realization set in that this wasn’t getting cleaned up, or that it was getting on in time – and she just skedaddled.

        Doesn’t have to be a conscious decision either – it could just be someone working in a sort of instinctive way.

        • Al, If I have learned anything in life and this trial it’s to look at everyone’s thoughts. Your right it could have happens that way. I do have a question for you: do you think your wife could drag you body down the hall and throw you in the shower? OK perhaps we you both were younger? I know from personal experience how hard it is to lift dead weight. Mom had fallen and couldn’t get up. She’s under 5ft and 128 lbs. My younger sister who is a Pt and I couldn’t get her up. You think we didn’t have adrenaline flowing? We are not weak women either. We ended up calling the e~ unit. It’s happen a few times now. So my point is I’m not sure Jodi would have anything left to be able to drag him and get him in the shower without any rug burns or scraping and his body. It would have been quite the struggle just getting him in the shower. I’m not saying impossible but ………. Show me the evidence…

        • Since i do not believe in the intruders theory, I wholeheartedly agree with Al.

          The crime scene and the time the crime itself took place is all I need to know to believe this was not premeditated: she arrived at 4 in the morning. OK, let’s assume she didn’t wanna kill him right there and then because the roommates were also there. Then why the hell did she not kill him when the roomates left for work and they were ALL alone in the house??? Travis was sleeping right next to her. Why not take out the freaking gun, shoot him and then stab him and slit his throat? Or the other way around which would make it easier, much easier. First slit his throat to make sure he’s incapacitated and then give my coup-de-gras, fuck you gunshot!)

          You have a sleeping guy next to you, you can cut him and slice him if you’re so determined to follow your supah dupah phycho premeditated plan. WHY wait till he’s awake and he can defend himself? WHY wait an hour before his roommates come back home? Come on…. And TA supporters say WE choose to sweep under the rug? Hell no.

          It’s a simple question: she arrived at 4 am. The killing took place approximately at 5.30 PM. More than 12 hours. 12 hours of risking to be seen by someone, of leaving more evidence behind etc.
          NOT TO MENTION taking pics of yourself at the crime scene. WTF?

          • Very good points Maria. Why want to kill him in the first place??? She was moving on. TA is the one who was getting dumped by the Good Mormon girls. Well except for good old Deanna. Poor delusional girl.
            Wake up people if she premeditated – she warned of left a trail.

            • Trail? Not only a trail. She left actual pictures behind, placing her at the crime scene.
              And no, putting the camera in the washing machine meant nothing. Even I am aware that it wouldn’t have gotten destroyed (and I know nothing about cameras)

    • Can’t compare apples to oranges.
      This is a unique case..
      No witnesses.
      No weapons found.
      No fingerprints found.
      No motive found.
      This is an orange and the State will be squeezed dry.

      What is the point of looking for another case to compare this one with?
      This is an unusual set of circumstances. It doesn’t fit mold. It most likely will make case law for some future defendant.

      • Carol,
        You’ve got that right!!
        No trial to compare this one to and in the future when student lawyers
        read about this case, they won’t believe it.
        I still don’t!!!

  27. I’ve been reading all this stuff here about decomposition, and speeds of decomposition, etc. I got to thinking about it a bit, and then did some research. The answer unfortunately is – you just can’t tell.

    It seems like the rate and stage of decomposition is dependent not just on the temperature, but also the humidity and the amount of blood left in the body. What got me started down this line was the fact that in days of old, when there was no refrigeration, people still kept meat around for a few days. When I was a young man I was into deer hunting. Around where I lived archery season would start in late september, but people would still hang a dead deer up in their garage for a few days before butchering it, and it was warm in September. Even regular firearm season, which started on the day after Thanksgiving could still see temperature in the 60’s and we’d hang deer up in the garage for a couple of days.

    Google decomposition in arid conditions and you’ll find some papers about what happens. It seems like the decomposition process’s speed is resultant on both temperature and humidity. In arid climates, with a body indoors the decomp is slower, and with cooler conditions tends to be accompanied by mummification.

    And so I don’t think one could really say that the state of decomposition can be used to pin point a time of death with any level of accuracy.

    • All you say is interesting, I’ve been doing research for months and months and although what you say is true to some extent, in a house with normal conditions, a body begins to smell to an unpleasantness in about 36 hours.
      This corresponds to what Detective Flores said when he saw Travis’ body: 1-2 days.
      He put 1-2 days in his investigation report. After he had convinced Jodi that he had all he needed to convict her: pictures (Jade proved they were bogus) with timestamps (which we know are put there by hand) and her ‘palm print in blood’ (which SJ showed was bogus) he then OMITTED his own finding of 1-2 days in the Chronis Hearing; most probably because NOW 1-2 days didn’t fit the prosecutions story at all.
      Now, all that considered, it SHOULD have raised questions to the Defense Attorney, he SHOULD have had his own medical examiner (he SHOULD have asked for one) to examine the information.

      The Information in the Medical Examiner’s Autopsy Report indicates the organs were not 5 days dead. There was food in the stomach among other things that didn’t correspond to the body being 5 days dead.
      There were fingernail clippings that were never tested and SHOULD be tested.
      It is not too late for a defense expert to examine the findings of Dr. Horn.

      Why there is so much resistance to a theory that doesn’t put Jodi at the scene of the crime makes me wonder, and I am beginning to wonder about this more and more.

      • While there are some here who will resist the idea that Jodi wasn’t there when Travis died, because of her testimony, I don’t think that’s where Al is coming from, or where I’m coming from.

        No matter how much you want to narrow and pinpoint the predictability of decomposition as a way to prove Travis’ time of death, in reality there will not be an ethical forensic professional to make that same determination. There are simply too many variables that effect the rate of decomposition, and forensic pathologists have come to the point where the more they know about decomposition rates, and how many variables are involved, the *less* able they are to pinpoint time of death.


        Any determination of the post mortem interval, based on an examination of the body, must necessarily be made with extreme caution, and requires the pathologist to assess the overall appearance of changes to the body in order to give an overall assessment of the likely timeframe involved. However, due to the numerous variables involved, such a pathological opinion is an approximation of the likely time since death, and the only valid opinion that can realistically be given is that an individual died at some time between that time when they were last seen alive (by a relaible, disinterested witness) and the time when their body was discovered.

      • Carol Handy why is it any harder for YOU to accept that Jodi is strong enough to make her own decisions. Maybe she caved and made up her story to redirect the pain she was under in interrogation. Kinda like Casey Anthony taking the detectives to Disney World. Everyone here knows how YOU feel about the anomalies of the evidence.I’m VERY sure there are more to come. What is important to me is that maybe Jodi did lie for her first 1 1/2 years in jail, but she’s decided to allow self-defense to be HER choice. You have this idea that Jodi was completely coerced to choose self-defense as her response to her charges. So you think Jodi’s been lying for the last 5 years, on the stand for 18 days,and in every letter and interview she’s made, because YOU say so. I think NOT.I think Jodi is telling the truth cause Jodi says so.

      • If Jodi is fortunate enough to get a re-trial from an appellate decision, using domestic violence self-defense will not work. The defense put on 4 expensive, respected psychologists; the public and the jury didn’t buy it.
        There will have to be a new strategy.
        There is a better chance of winning if pleading not guilty, and making the State prove their case.
        The more rehashing the same old theories goes on, the less likely any good defense attorney will take the re-trial case. They will not want the case.
        Domestic violence didn’t work.
        Self-defense didn’t work and it will not work.
        Agendas to promote certain ‘social reforms’ won’t work.
        Lawyers try cases with facts and evidence.

        • Carol,
          I agree!
          They shouldn’t just look at the blood and time of his death.

          Do SOME real investigation, LIKE talking to the roommates.
          Were you here then?

          What days were you here, when did you notice TA’s keys and cell phone
          on the kitchen counter. You did wash in the last days, WHEN??
          What was in the washer?
          Even Jodi told the detectives to talk to A room mate.
          I BELIEVED Jodi then.

          Who came and went SINCE they lived at the scene of the crime.
          It doesn’t get any closer than that, living in the next room.
          Living in the next room???
          Didn’t he shower or walk out the door?

          Didn’t THEY notice anything different at all AND YES they had to smell it, but
          wasn’t bothered by it? How did they even stay there?

          IF there was no blood and my room mates keys and cell phone were on the counter
          I’m sure I would have at least checked to see if he was gone.

          Jodi’s judge will be sentencing soon. I think someone should be able to get her a new trial.

          Like Carol said, she deserves that.
          Carol you aren’t the only one that see’s it that way.
          I’ve never seen a trial that was more deserving to be called a JUNK trial.
          I hope and pray she get’s a new trial.

    • Correct, but stomach contents can be used to estimate time of death….and I believe that there were remnants of food in his stomach….please check me on this… was in the autopsy report I believe…..

  28. Sometimes I think pickles is behind her desk flipping a coin for objections. Heads for “sustained” and Tails for “o-overuled” Lol 🙂

    • Too bad she wasn’t doing that. We would have gotten more evenly distributed rulings. I think it was more like if it’s prosecutor objecting “sustained” and if it’s the defense objecting “overruled”.

  29. HAVE A GREAT THURSDAY EVERYONE! ♥ We might not all share the same beliefs about what happened to Travis and Jodi, and that is fine. For those who find our way of believing in Jodi Arias is odd, well that is fine too. I would suggest for them to move on to a site based on their own beliefs. We here come from many different religions, personalities, interests and countries. For me it has been refreshing to know I was not the only one in the world to see the injustices that have happened to Jodi Arias by the Justice System in Arizona and the circle of people Travis Alexander thought of as friends. It has been very simple to look at this as a whole and see the whole mess is wrong. Travis was a predator and an abuser. I’m sorry for his families shattered belief about their brother but their own actions have taken away my sympathy for them. There are others in this matter who need to be put in jail. If one doesn’t agree with me, so be it. What I know is, Jodi Arias is innocent of the crime she was convicted of. Not the first time it has happened in the State of AZ, is it? Self defense is not a crime. Once again this is only my opinion.

    Mark 11:25 – And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.”

    • At all times I have tried my best to stay positive about everything concerning this trial. And as we all here know it is a challenge for me. 🙄 Not once have I stated that Jodi Arias is a perfect individual because we all know no one is. Jodi has her faults just like I do but does that give the media and public grounds to take our names and invent untruths about us just because people do not like Jodi or me or anyone else here giving their view points? Sometimes people don’t understand what makes someone the way they are but it is not our part to judge one another. They do not like how we discuss and offer support for Jodi then they should just avoid us. I will not turn my back on Jodi Arias when she is at the lowest time of her life. I will treat her the same way I would like to be treated. Period.
      Jodi Arias should have walked away from Travis Alexander the first time he tried one of his Romeo moves on her but she didn’t. Jodi should have been stronger than him in her values but she wasn’t skilled in motivational deception as he was. Jodi was clearly out of her league in that area. Jodi was flattered by his attention, fell for his cult like brainwashing behavior and fell in love with him. She wanted to help him and tried to often. What did she get for that but snickering whispers behind her back. She wasn’t aware he was feeding his friends a totally different story than the stories he was feeding her. Jodi is guilty of trusting to much in people. She tried to be accepted by these so called friends of Travis to no avail. All they could do is gossip and connive behind her back. They were not friends to Travis or Jodi. Why were his friends not more concerned with his behavior? Say what you will but they knew for a fact he was troubled and they did nothing to help him. Jodi was only one of many he was stringing along, playing with their hearts and feelings as he went on his merry way to fulfill his every desire in life. Travis was motivated only to satisfy himself.
      What happened the day he died? Will we ever know? The people who found Jodi guilty were not privy to the information that has come out about him. Every ugly detail should have been presented during the trial instead of the State holding, concealing and tampering evidence. That is WRONG! The very information Jodi tried desperately to conceal about Travis’s problems were exposed only because the family and State wished only the DP. Jodi had no other option available to her but to come clean and tell the truth has she could remember it. How will we know if her memories have been created in her mind by a defective detective or anyone else? Everything she has stated about Travis has been proven. Once again, if the plea deal had been accepted none of us would have ever heard about Travis Alexander or Jodi Arias. It is the prosecution who has enjoyed himself throwing picture after picture on the court room screen of Travis and Jodi in all kinds of demeaning disgusting ways. He is the one who has made a mockery and spectacle of this trial. He didn’t care about Travis Alexander or his family. His win at all cost mentality has made a complete mess of two different families lives. Two families have been destroyed by this tragedy but the people who enjoy their game of hate can only have sympathy for the Alexanders? Not once have they displayed any kind of compassion for Jodi’s family. Jodi’s family did nothing to them and they have been hurt also. I will support Jodi and her family by any means I can and if by chance it offends someone, so be it. One day Jodi Arias will be a free woman and hopefully these people who spew their vile hateful words will move on. Jodi should be set free with times served IMO. The world would be a better place if everyone would treat and judge others the way they would wish to be treated or judged. It might just be them next time, that find themselves in an ugly situation. Especially around the crowd they are hanging with.

    • R,
      I wasn’t sure who you were referring to when you stated “I would suggest for them to move on to a site based on their own beliefs.” Personally, I wouldn’t want anyone to move on if they have an opinion different than mine. I enjoy this site because there are different opinions and theories. If this was just a “cheerleading for Jodi” site, I wouldn’t find it that interesting, although I certainly support Jodi 100%. If someone writes something I don’t believe in, I might give my opinion about their idea, or ask a question, but I wouldn’t make a personal attack on them or their character because I don’t like their ideas. The closest I ever came in more than 2 years here was a week or 10 days ago when I tried to make a point by asking a ridiculous question. But, I could see the person was hurt or slightly pissed and I didn’t feel good about it. Most of the time I simply read comments, consider them and move on. Sometimes I support someone’s idea by adding some little detail. There seems to be some movement to limit other people’s theories/ideas here. I don’t support that idea.

      • CC53 my response to your post went to the barn. . . . yea I know. In a nutshell no I meant no one here trying to support with different ideas and theories. I enjoy every one of them and respect all of TEAM JODI!!! Our heart is in the right place and we all mean no harm to anyone. I feel we all want JUSTICE FOR JODI ARIAS and FREEDOM FOR JODI ARIAS. That is why I’m here and I know all of the other people who share their thoughts here. All is good, I just needed to vent without going to vent. Aaaahhhh glad that is out of my system, and thanks for bearing with me. ♥
        The more theories and ideas we have the more we know something went terribly wrong in this case.

    • Thanks to you all too. Sometimes, I just have to say what I feel whether its politically correct or not. Jodi has been totally slammed by Travis, the friends, the family, the media and that State. No where in our country should people have their minds made up about someone’s guilt or innocence before they walk into a court room. Every one, every where hade their mind made up she was guilty but us. We might be fewer number compared to the other side but I’m not ashamed to stand up and say I support her. Every single human on this earth deserves a chance and Jodi was denied that. What if we are RIGHT WITHOUT A DOUBT? Will they big enough to apologize, I pray so. Jodi deserves their apology. Her family deserves an apology. ARIZONA GOT IT WRONG AGAIN! ♥

      • You’re SO right R.Love,
        I was so angry at the meda. I got to where I just didn’t listen to them.
        Then I found this site and it was such a pleasure.
        I can’t imagine how everyone jumped on her to begin with. They didn’t KNOW one thing.
        Someone does and they are nervous that Jodi will someday get her frredom and the truth will come

        Everyone on here may have a different oppion on what really MIGHT have happened, but
        I know we all support Jodi 100% and you are for sure. : ) An angel!!!

        I sent a reply to your other post but the internet must be jammed, I don’t think it made it.
        But, THANK YOU!
        I don’t see how you could offend anyone.
        I’ve never ben offened by anyone on here.
        As long as it’s for Jodi, of course we may have different oppinions. Tha’s only natural.
        Otherwise we WOULD all be brainwashed.

        Some times I get frustrated, so I go to Jodi’s Art Gallery.
        I have a few prints, but I said in my last post they will be on my wall and the best one
        will be Jodi being free.
        That’s for SURE what we all agree on.
        And I know we’ve grown to really care for her.
        How could we do anything else?

        I think her family are saints to be as calm as they are with the haters all around them.

      • I never cared that we are fewer.We may be at a disadvantage when trying to make our voices heard but at the end of the day, does it really matter? If the world is blindfolded, we cannot make each person take their blinders off. The facts are there for everyone to go over. If they come to conclusion A and we come to conclusion B, so be it as you said.

        • We always have this site to come to.
          I’m not bothered by fewer.

          The majority always go by what little bit they hear on HLN and other Channels.
          It doesn’t take much to just call others names.
          I was getting that on You Tube and I never went to the haters because that’s why
          I quit watching them on TV and You Tube.

          So this WAS and IS the very best place for me to come.
          Thank You Team Jodi!! : )

          • You are a dear, Aly! If I knew how to make hearts I’d send you a dozen! The world needs more people just like you.

              • Ohhh, that is so sweet, really
                I love both of you too. : )
                I don’t have any hearts either. : )
                I would send a dozen back to y’all!

                That R.Love is so smart, right?
                I seriously don’t know what I would do without this place.

  30. Some interesting stuff is about to happen with the Pedo-Letter. First off you have to compare the context how Jodi writes in her journal as well as Travis’ context. The first comparison is that Travis had four distinct persona’s. Travis the devout Mormon, Travis the sexual deviant, Travis as T-Dogg and Travis as Eddy Snell. Travis would have written in any combination of these persona’s. A writing style that Jodi would not have been able to effectively mimic because she wouldn’t have known the internal communication between the four of them that centered around Travis.

    We are Jodi’s Prophecy Fleet. Don’t leave her. Get into the past between her and Travis and find everything you can about him. We need to know how he was in high school, how he acted, where he bought that first gun from.

    Now….for the second stage of the attack. Now were fucking gonna play some fun games…..the fact that Jodi is left handed and Travis was right handed is the determining factor of who wrote the Pedo Letter. Right hand and Left Hand writing produces very different characteristics. Characteristics that would have proven Jodi correct about Travis being a Pedo and writing the letter. Evidence that would have destroyed Juan’s contention about Travis being a devout Mormon and Jodi killing him over being jealous of other girlfriends.

    Another factor that has to be considered in the attacks on Jodi is because she is left handed which has always been considered awkward or not normal because based on religion those sitting on the right hand of God have always been favored more than those on the left hand of God. Religion therefore sees people who are right handed as being the right hand of God and those who re left handed as the left hand of God as being and extension of God’s will.

    Since Jodi was left handed she was considered not normal, a liar, a stalker by Travis because she didn’t write with her right hand but instead with her left.

    The fact that the letter was not analyzed is prosecutorial misconduct because it would been proven that Jodi did not write the Pedo Letters because of the context they were written in as well as the writing style they were written in. Evidence that would have exonerated Jodi from being a liar which like I said Juan could not allow into the court because it would have cast doubt on his attempts to paint Travis as a Devout Mormon, Jodi as a habitual liar all of which is meant to cover up the sexual abuse at Soldier Hollow Charter where Chris Hughes has been the VP of where sexual abuse has taken place since 1975.

    What we should do is get together and pay the best hand writing expert and personality context expert to go over the Pedo Letters and prove that they are in fact Travis’ writings. When a SEAL of expert authenticity has been put on them we can then display them here and other locations for the TA supporters to see how wrong they are regardless of how correct that little dim wight in their mind is telling them they are correct. Because we all know…science proves accurately with a single source ….verbage is only proven accurately when large numbers of people say the same thing.

    Not even wrong.

  31. Good evening everyone.

    Figured I’d just make responses to a bunch of comments down here, all in one place and neatly organized.

    So to Cindy:

    Yup tried to get my wife to drag me around. She wouldn’t even try – said I was weird. So much for that experiment. The daughter could but she has almost 4 inches and 20 lbs on Jodi plus lacrosse, and field hockey and stuff. So that wasn’t quite a valid experiment. Though I did see this thing on TV where they had some producer girl who was about Jodi’s size drag a mannequin around. But I don’t know if that is a valid experiment either, because the body will behave differently etc. I do remember seeing someone here talk about it around here earlier, so who knows. I’ll try an see if I can conduct a new experiment.

    To Carol Handy.

    I think you are so right that the self-defense argument didn’t work (well obviously), and, as I have said before, I think it was a mistake. But I have a follow on question for any sharp legal minds here.

    If there is a retrial, does stuff from the first trial come in. Even if Jodi doesn’t testify in the retrial, is there a way they can bring the testimony from the first trial in. I mean all that was under oath. If so there is a bit of problem in moving along, without addressing the self-defense testimony in the retrial. How and what any new defense team would do is a complete mystery to me, but I’m sure others may have some ideas.

    To Coldcase53.

    I agree that the fact that people with different opinions, leading to the same nexus – that Jodi is not really guilty of the charges she was convicted of, are here, expressing their opinion is what makes this an interesting site. It’s easy to march on along with a herd, all thinking and acting the same – but when there is a free exchange of ideas, and all are respected, then you have a true conversation going on.

    To Journee on her interpretation of my reasoning on the decomp argument. Thank the good Lord for those more articulate than me who can explain my concepts better than I can. Thank you.

    • Al, your concepts were perfectly clear. Nowhere had you said – to my knowledge, nowhere have you EVER said – that you were ‘resistant to a theory that doesn’t put Jodi at the scene of the crime’.

      In fact, I recall a conversation with you from eons back that you indicated the other day you’d forgotten (not that you’d forgotten the conversation specifically, but forgotten the point raised in the conversation, so obviously the conversation also). That is, I remember when you DID learn that there was no blood in the handprint. I had pointed you to Perry’s testimony and your comeback was along the lines of ‘damn, there’s no proof she was there when he died at all, is there?’

      • Well it is true. While the pictures on the camera that have her there on June 4th (if the time stamps hold up to scrutiny. I’m still worried about how that whole testimony from Melendez went), there is absolutely nothing that says she was there when any sort of violence was inflicted on TA, other than her own words – whether it be the intruder or self-defense theory.

        So, if she had heeded the Miranda and gotten an attorney, and been advised to keep mum the state would have had to prove that not only did she do whatever it was they allege, but also that she was there when it happened. After all if you look at a few hours on either side of their alleged timeline,plenty of people were in and out the house, his roommates, some ones girl friend, and who knows who else.

        But unfortunately that goes into that big should, woulda, coulda pile.

        • I think my intent there just flew right past you and Cindy both.

          I was saying that

          A) your post was very clear and you did not need me to restate it, I’m sorry if I came across as trying to restate it because

          B) what I was TRYING to do was to correct Carol Handy’s implication that you’re ‘resistant to a theory that doesn’t put Jodi at the scene of the crime’… when all you’d done was talk about the current realities of pinpointing time of death. And

          C) by sharing my memory of a time when you’d said that, absent the fictional bloody handprint, there was no evidence that Jodi had been there when Travis died, I was pointing out that you’d once said something quite the opposite of what she was accusing you of saying. Trying to demonstrate that you’re NOT ‘resistant to the idea.’

          And that’s probably no clearer than the first time I tried to say it. Maybe I should just go to bed.

    • Al we did talk about it way back when. Oh that producer girl I think was on HLN After Dark….. Oh I can just see the look on your wife’s face if you asked her that. LOL.
      You know the point I was trying to make.. Tell me how she got him in the shower…but look at the picture of him in the shower first..

      • And that mannequin would not have shown the bruise and scrapes that would have been on a body dragged into that shower.

        Of course, Travis’ didn’t either. So how did he get there?

        • Journee,

          Two different issues there bruises and scrapes.

          If I am not wrong, at least based on what I’ve read, bruises are an ante-mortem phenomenon, so they might not be present if the body is dragged post-mortem.

          Scrapes are another issue altogether because they could be ante- or post mortem. I can’t remember Horn’s report, but if you say so, I’ll have to believe there were none he reported. So the question is could you drag someone down the tile floor without scrapes. Sounds like time for an experiment, but since my puller folks are away at school, and my wife won’t cooperate someone else is going to have to try it.

          • You likely wouldn’t get scrapes or abrasions being dragged on a tile floor. But you sure would be likely to have some evidence of being dragged over a fairly thin edge aluminum frame on the shower riser. This is 200 pounds being dragged over a sharp edge that is 6-8 inches from the floor.

            Something else that would factor into the difficulty of being dragged. He was naked! That would create friction against the tile and it would be more difficult than if he had clothes on.

            Plus his head was nearly cut off (if we assume the crock that his neck was cut in the photo) and plus that, she had to turn him around.

            And nevermind that tons of other things plus THAT had to be done in about 30 minutes.

            • I thought they said it was more like a couple of minutes (not 30) from stop to end, which is the darnest thing.

              I do get it about the naked thing and the coefficient of friction. Interesting little tip from an outdoorsman there. You know how stream bottoms can get slippery. If you ever get caught in such a situation, take your shoes off.

              The shower stall lip’s sharpness would depend on the stall itself I suppose. I looked at the shower stall rim in our bathroom (which has a sliding door as opposed to the swinging tpe, and it isn’t sharp at all).

              The bigger issue really is that head being held up in the “dragging” picture. (The second dragging picture is just nothing. Looked like a trash bag to me.) No way that head was held up that way, unless it was leaning against something.

              But here’s another issue – so I was listening to when they were questioning Melendez. I don’t know if I caught this wrong, but the questions and answers seemed to imply that the dragging picture was taken with the camera looking towards the bathroom (again, did I get that wrong?). If so this camera sure moved around, first shooting pictures of the ceiling in the bathroom, then going into the hallway shooting towards the bathroom, sort of like the free range chicken in the Geico ads. (Someone please tell me I heard that wrong, because I don’t want to listen to that intellectual giant Melendez again). Also if the camera was pointing towards the bathroom, then the “feet” were pointing towards the bathroom. Can’t be, I must have that wrong. Now I’m going to have to go listen to this again. Dang.

              • Aluminum, even when very thin like for soda cans, doesn’t tend to have sharp edges. But I’ve abraded my shins on my aluminum shower door frame more than once, with nothing close to 200 ponds of pressure dragging across it.

                I was always under the impression that those accidental photos were taken FROM the area near the bathroom pointing towards the bedroom. But I don’t much feel like watching Melendez again either.

                I do think the ceiling shot may have been taken when Travis picked up the camera to examine it, after the first time Jodi took off running down the hall.

              • The 2 minutes was strictly the time they claimed it took from his “last” picture being alive in the shower to when he was dead and supposedly standing behind him in the hallway.

                That had nothing to do with the time it would have also took for her to stuff him into the show and get everything else–cleaning, washing, showering etc and etc.

                And at the MOST she would have had about 30-40 minutes before Enrique would have been coming up the stairs.

                It’s absolutely positive that she left before he got home because if he had gone up the stairs while she was still in the bedroom and not know it, when he came back down, he sure as hell would have noticed a doggy gate across the stairs that wasn’t there when he went up.

                And you know he would have told Flores or somebody that.

            • Yes, Jade, it’s the dragging over the shower door frame I’ve always seen as impossible, because there would have been scrapes on his backside that were not described in the autopsy report.

          • We don’t know whether he was dead or not when he ended up back in the shower, may have gotten there under his own steam even, though that seems unlikely to *me*, given the blood loss in the bedroom. There are two scrape/bruise combos on his left heel/ankle that look like THEY could have been made when dragged across the shower door frame.

            • Visualize how that would be done. You would have to have your back against the shower wall pulling him in–he would be “stretched out” with his feet being the last thing coming across the metal frame.

              How would you have the room to do that? You would have to be raising him up almost into a standing position lol.

              That would be one crowded shower lol.

      • That was a fun day – my wife was just aghast, and refused to have anything to do with it. Then the girl started dragging me around the kitchen floor. Then the boy joined in, and then the dogs decided this was all just great fun. Then the kids decided they wanted to see if they could drag me up the stairs.

        All this while I’m yelling at them to let go, the dogs are barking, my wife’s yelling “Let Daddy go, you’re hurting him, and to me “This is what you get for being stupid.They’re kids what’s your excuse?” and the kids are laughing their heads off and just dragging me all over the kitchen, living and dining room, while the dogs think this is the greatest tug of war toy they’ve ever seen so they’re trying to bite my feet off.

        You could have made a freaking movie of the whole thing. Needless to say, that’s the last forensic recreation experiment I’m ever undertaking in this nuthouse.

        But yes, I get your point. She’d basically have to push up against that wall to pull him in, or push him into a sitting position, and he slipped or something. But seeing as how I’m no crime scene expert I have no idea, but it’s food for thought. Let me ponder on it a mite, maybe some smart idea will crop up.

  32. Al. in response to your question:
    If an Appellate Court sends the case back to the lower court for a new trial it will be a completely new trial.
    What went on in the first trial is not automatically done at a real re-trial (I hesitate to say re-trial because everyone used that word as it referred to what just went on).
    Of course if the State wants to do what they have done up to now, that will be their business.This time it will not be so easy.
    It is hopeful that a different defense approach will be taken, one without any lies, one that sticks to the facts. That will mean the defense will have to do some investigative work, some piecing things together and believing in their client.
    I trust the truth, lies never work, cover-up never works, ‘untruthful stories’ never work. The facts in this case like every other case can be supported with evidence.

    • I forgot to address your other part of the question.
      No. What went on in the first go round, especially by the defense, is in the trash can. It can not be used against Jodi. The proper way to go is ‘not guilty’ let the State prove the case.
      Jodi should not take the stand again. Evidence found that will support her ‘new’ plea will be used to destroy what the State claims. AND there IS evidence proving she wasn’t there. The defense just didn’t bother with it.

      • I guess I wrote the post below while you were writing this. So you are saying that no testimony from the first trial is admissible in the second?

        Not to sound dismissive, but I’d have to check that. Seems a little too pat for convoluted US criminal procedures.

        • Right! As long as the defense doesn’t go anywhere near where they went before.
          Hopefully she will ask the appellate court to accept that she had Ineffective Assistance of Counsel.
          New attorney, new plea, new evidence.

          What will the State do then? Try their old lies? Try their old false evidence? Your guess would be as good as mine, but I’d personally love to see them try!!

        • Why do you think a responsible lawyer would put Jodi on the stand again?
          It was a disaster.
          She will not take the stand, and if she remains silent, they can not throw her words at her. That is the point.

          • I’m sorry Carol, but that’s just not true. They can throw her words against her. That’s the exact point of the case I cited. In the second trial the defendant did not testified, and the prosecutor read his testimony from the first trial into the record. The appeals court, and other appeals courts have said that is OK. So even if during the retrial the defendant chooses not to testify the testimony from the first trial is admissible, and does not violate the defendant’s Fifth amendment right against self incrimination.

            Actually this is not apples and oranges. My hypothetical actually holds water. I’m not saying that a retrial attorney will (or for that matter should) put Jodi on the stand. There’s nothing to be gained by that. In fact she would have been a whole lot better off if she had never opened her mount – either to Flores or in court. However, that’s all water under the bridge now, and her interview with Flores is admissible in any trial as well as her testimony from the first trial – which will be admissible in any retrial.

            So whatever path the retrial attorneys take – and I am not in any position to guess what that might be, or have any legal experience to say what a good course may be, I think they will have to explain her testimony about self defense from the first trial. The question then remains – How will they do it?

            Because no matter what they do – you can bet your bottom dollar the prosecutor will definitely introduce that testimony into any retrial. I know I would if I was the prosecutor.

            In as far as creating new case law during appeal – sure there is a sort of question of the impact of current social media, etc that needs to be tackled. I don’t know if there is another case making its way through the works, but in as far as the introduction of her first trials testimony into any retrial – that’s not an issue for the appeals court unless there is a retrial, the testimony is admitted and the there is another appeal. If the trial judge chooses not to admit it that’s another story, but I think the prosecutor will have enough case law to show that it is in fact admissible. I’m no lawyer, but I could find enough case law in about 5 minutes. I’m sure seasoned legal researchers would find a lot more than I did.

            • There is the law, which is the reality, which I have accurately stated. It is not a debatable issue. You can say it all kinds of ways, find all kinds of cases, state it in any way you want, but what you say is not the factual truth. I have said it correctly.
              There is no reason to keep arguing non-issues.

              I will beg off from this discussion because I have distinctly provided you with the indisputable facts regarding what a positive outcome of an appeals would mean in this case.
              I did what I needed to do I wanted to let those here understand how a new trial would work and what it would mean. I’ve done that.

              • Carol,

                I’m sorry if I’m upsetting you, but you are, with my sincerest apologies, just plain wrong.

                See jade’s comments below.

                • You do not upset me.
                  I stand firm with what I said. It is not my opinion.
                  Jade and you can have all the opinions you want.
                  It doesn’t change that the law is the law.

    • Carol,

      I think you might have misunderstood my question, or I’m misunderstanding your answer. I wasn’t talking about trial startegy, or what evidence people put forth, and so on. That part I understand, its a new trial, and everything start’s from square 1.

      But consider the following hypotheticals:

      Hypothetical 1 – the new defense team decides to put Jodi on the stand (probably a bad move, but let’s say they do. Can the prosecutor then say ” Ms Arias, during your first trial did you say – X, Y or Z”? Or can he show video of the first trial, or read back her testimony from the first trial and so bring it up?

      Hypothetical 2 – the new defense team does not decide to put Jodi on the trial. Can the prosecutor now introduce Jodi’s trial through some other means? After all it was under oath, and a certified transcript is an official document. I don’t know how he does it, but I can think of two options – firstly, since it is an official document could he just read it into the record? I know in civil cases they can just read parts of depositions taken under oath into the record – the attorney just stands up and reads out the questions and answers. A second way could be to get someone like Flores to set up the foundation, and then use him to introduce it, sort of like the DT did with ALV and Geffner. So here’s what one could do – get Flores to make some sort of follow up investigation – anything, just make busy work. Now ask him if he relied on Jodi’s testimony in the first trial in conducting this further investigation. And now you can ask – did you rely on this, or that or the other.

      So even though the new DT may not use a self-defense Jodi’s testimony from the first trial hangs around like a specter. And that is my fear, that regardless of what they try and do, that testimony becomes an albatross around her neck.

      • If the verdict is thrown out everything is thrown out. A complete do-over.

        If I sound too positive it is because I get lectured by my daughter a lot about this case.
        Jodi will need a responsible honest and hardworking attorney at that point but I don’t see that as a problem.
        It is after all, a while down the road for the case to go.
        She will need investigators, forensic pathologist, and others to help.
        But somehow I don’t think she will have a problem getting help from people. Too many see the injustices and misconduct in the case. Too many see the corruption in the Maricopa County Prosecutor’s Office!

  33. I have a question and please don’t anyone call me out on it.

    I know if Jodi had gotten the DP the appeals would have started right away. Will it make any difference rather she gets LWOP or 25years with the chance of release??

    • The first appeal is to the State Court of Appeals, she gets that as a Right.
      They can deny the Appeal.
      They can grant part and deny part.
      Or they can vacate the conviction, reverse to square one, and remand back to the lower court, with instructions.

      Takes time; and the fact that it is not a death penalty means it will take longer.
      That is why some people were saying it would be better if she got the death penalty.

        • It is certainly slow.
          Look how long it took to convict in this trial. Almost 7 years. That is extraordinary!

          There have been so many wrongs.

          Now on a more optimistic note:
          Maybe (prayers should help) the Court of Appeals EXPECTS this case and they could be ready for it. So don’t be too worried about it.

          • Carol,
            I’ve been thinking the same.
            They know about it for sure.
            There are othet cases going on, but how could
            they not be expecting this?

  34. Prior testimony admissible in a new trial is complicated and has a lot of moving parts. We additionally have a state that makes their own rules as they go along and normal legal standards in other states are as unpredictable in Arizona as your number coming up on a roulette wheel.

    But, constitutionally when a defendant has given testimony, they were given the right prior to taking the oath that they had the right not to take the stand and incriminate themselves if they didn’t want to. In other words–the right to say nothing. She is still alive, has not been declared insane or is so disabled that she cannot testify so the choice not to testify could not be a magic get-out-of-jail free card and force the prosecution to not use her own statements.

    Enter Arizona–self defense being an affirmative defense, cannot be elected without some proffer by somebody who is either an accomplice, a witness who saw something or the defendant themselves showing that there is some justification for a claim of self defense. I’m sure this is what the judge made Jodi do in order for the self defense plea to be accepted. Jodi had exclusive knowledge of the event.

    So it is not likely that Jodi can pretend the first trial never happened. She waived the right to remain silent and “confronted her accusers.” Her testimony was given as the “truth” under oath and it will probably be a matter of record that she will have to live with. She was not found not guilty and there was not a hung jury of guilt.

    However many things will happen before a new trial starts if a new trial is ordered. There will be suppression hearings that the new attorneys will want and argue for testimony exclusion. Prosecution xhibits that were approved by this moron judge may be excluded with a competent judge. A new judge will decide matters of relevance and materiality and will rule in advance if the hearsay exception applies in part or in all.

    What Jodi could do however is to take THIS opportunity to now RECANT her testimony and give reasons why she testified as she did in the first (guilt) trial. Stating that she was covering for other people who would have been subjected to possible death or great harm and GIVE PROOF OF IT. She could say that she has since remembered that she did not stab him or slice his throat and that the evidence shows that–which her attorneys will be able to support with all the things I’ve been pointing out.

    She will have to take the stand but this will invalidate and preempt all the “impeachment” that Martinez could claim because she is not saying she remembers “dropping the knife” anymore. Or that she slit his throat. Maybe if she recanted her testimony, the judge would allow her to plead innocent. But not taking the stand will be problematic because her testimony may be brought in by laying a foundation with other witnesses such as Flores. She has to show that, yes I shot him but nothing else. And the attorneys have to BACK THAT UP. The evidence will speak for itself if it’s PRESENTED.

    It will be highly unusual if she could erase all the testimony she’s given and not have it used against her. But the only thing she has to show is that it was not premeditated and that it did not rise to the standard of first degree murder. That will lessen her sentence to be enough to be released almost with time served or with very few years. She can do that EASILY if her attorneys just know how the hell to present the case.

    Here’s the complexity of what I was talking about.

    • On the topic of recanting, the thing that has always bothered me about the self-defense theory is the nagging feeling that KN orchestrated that story.

      There is no way this was M1 – there is just too much evidence to the contrary. But, other than Jodi’s word, there is no evidence differentiate between whether this was self-defense, or manslaughter. There is a real fine line between self defense and a sudden quarrel heat of passion manslaughter case. In both instances, the decedent has to have been the provocateur. The difference is that in self-defense, the defendant had to be in fear of harm, and in the second case they just had to have snapped. So assume every part of Jodi’s testimony is true, the camera drop, the yelling, the shouting of “I’ll kill you” the run to the closet, everything. Now if you change one minor detail instead of saying I shot him because I was afraid, to I shot him cause I lost it, you’ve converted the self-defense to a sudden quarrel heat of passion thing. But the difference is that for it to be self defense, the jury has to believe the defendant – they have to. But the sudden quarrel, heat of passion can be proven by inference – there was a violent quarrel – no doubt about that. There was no intention for M1 – that can be proven the same way everyone’s done it here for years now. So heat of passion is really the only possible explanation, other than some M1 based on an instantaneous premeditation (you know the argument where they say it takes but a split second to form the intent).

      But there’s a sort of buzzing right behind my eyes that always says, what if KN fed this to her. Maybe some appellate attorney can get to the bottom of it, or if true the retrial attorney can get to it. If so, I for one would just throw KN under the bus, because if its true he deserves it. In fact he ought to have some consequences for the miserable job he did.

      Other than that, she’d have to get some real good way to recant, because if not the prosecution would have a field day with yet another story.

      • It appears this was the genesis of when the whole ball of wax took shape. And as I had said previously, this is where the emphasis got born to shift everything in the direction of what Nurmi’s background was in–domestic violence. He was the lead counsel and Victoria I think just got shut down with her preferred strategy.

        Heat of passion immediately brings in the requirement that what was done is the same thing that any other reasonable person would do under the same circumstances.

        This is from Nurmi’s response to the motion regarding the original preclusion of the letters by Martinez:

        I will highlight the operative words in caps.

        “In response to both these theories, Ms. Arias, has asserted the defense of Justification , Self Defense pursuant to ARS 13-415 which alters the REASONABLE PERSON standard to a reasonable person who HAS EXPERIENCED ABUSE at the hands of his or her attacker.”

        This is the moment when the worm turned.

      • Al, you think it would “help” Jodi’s case if she were to say that she didn’t shoot him accidentally?

        How so?

        That there was just one shot fired allows for reasonable doubt that it was intentional to any degree. One shot is evidence of a clumsy attempt at self-defense, not substantial evidence of heat of passion.

        Jodi’s testimony was not a disaster. It saved her from the death penalty in the first penalty phase, the same way her diary saved her in the second.

        The real disasters were the prejudices that JSS allowed when she permitted Grandpa’s gun theft to be attributed to Jodi and further decided that the order of injuries was irrelevant, letting the prosecution re-cast the crime scene as a highly offensive “Psycho” narrative wherein “she killed him three times”.

        The Final Jury Instructions have no mention of this notion of “instantaneous premeditation” as an element of M1. No such idea was in them; in fact, they say the opposite. It says it can be a short time, but not an instant <—- that would be Manslaughter.

        You keep saying there's no evidence he attacked her. There is no evidence that he was attacked in the shower but he left the shower, and a lethal battle ensued. Consider that aluminum edge everyone's been discussing here today as the proverbial line. It was crossed.

        Remember the blow-up of his eye in the photograph? It proved she wasn't holding a gun or a knife and that was stipulated to.

        • I don’t think I ever said it would help (or hurt) anything if she said she shot him accidently.

          Once she acknowledged she had the gun, and it was pointed at TA there are only two ways the gun could have gone off – intentionally or unintentionally.

          If it was accidental, and if the gunshot was the cause of death then that is manslaughter. If the gunshot is not the cause of death, then it becomes more involved, because it gets taken in context with what happens next.

          If the gunshot is intentional, that is the person knowingly pulled the trigger, then that is completely different and is attributable at some other level ranging from self-defense to M1.

          But see, I’ve never addressed any issue with respect to whether it was intentional or unintentional.

          I use the term “instantaneous and split second in the same sentence. My use of term instantaneous is a rhetorical tool to signify an extremely short period of time (just enough to come to a considered intent). It wasn’t meant to be a technical term, rather the rhetoric tool of a legal layman. If it caused confusion I apologize.

          I agree with you that one of the things that kept Jodi from the DP was probably her testifying. But here’s where I’m coming from – I don’t believe this should have ever gotten to the stage where a DP should even have been an issue. I don’t believe this was M1, and I believe there is enough in the evidence to actually argue against the M1 without having Jodi on the stand. Of course given the AZ death qualified jury, and JM’s antics, and the media pressure and all that, none of it might have mattered. But in as far as getting the M1 conviction, I believe that her being on the stand didn’t help. I guess once you concede that the M1 was what this jury was going to do given the circumstances, then I guess being on the stand helped. But in my opinion this jury wrongly convicted Jodi of M1. And in that regards, I suspect that her being on the stand just gave them more ammunition – if that mattered to them anyway.

          But there is no evidence other than Jodi’s word that TA attacked her first. We know that violent “combat” took place outside the shower.The scene shows that. We know he was outside the shower – that is not in question. The question is – is there any evidence other than Jodi’s word, that TA attacked her first? I may be missing something, and if so I would be eternally grateful if someone could point that out to me, as I am sure tons of people will. But if you leave out Jodi’s word, where’s the evidence that TA attacked her first?

          There are inferences, sure. In fact regardless of whether you believe this was M2, or manslaughter or anything, if you do not believe M1 – then something must have started this. If Jodi started it its M1, but then why didn’t she do it at 4 AM at the door, or shoot him 3 time, or whatever? So if you say it isn’t M1 – which I’ve been arguing for years then something must have set her off. So the inference that TA initiated this is there. But it’s the direct evidence that’s missing.

          • Al, you wrote:

            “But see, I’ve never addressed any issue with respect to whether it was intentional or unintentional. ”

            [I’ve taken that statement from your comment today at 4:56am above.]

            You’d written in a previous comment (the one at 7:48pm last night) – “Now if you change one minor detail instead of saying I shot him because I was afraid, to I shot him cause I lost it, you’ve converted the self-defense to a sudden quarrel heat of passion thing.”

            – This is what I was addressing in my comment above at 10:04pm last night when I asked you, “…you think it would “help” Jodi’s case if she were to say that she didn’t shoot him accidentally?”

            In posing that question in my comment at last night I was distinguishing between your suggestion of “losing it” and an accidental discharge borne of fear, which is what she testified to with respect to how the gun came to be fired.

            It is obviously, and tragically, not a “minor detail” as to how the gun discharged. If I understand you correctly, you’re implying that there there is some degree of intent, however minimal, that can be explained by heat of passion in “losing it”, as opposed to a situation that resulted in a completely accidental and unintended squeezing of the trigger out of fear [i.e. “I was afraid”] of an imminent attack, i.e. TA’s “lunge”. So, as it relates to the motivation of fear or the question of “losing it”, I understood you to “address[ ]…[the} issue with respect to whether it was intentional or unintentional”.

            I agree, this should never have been a DP case, but I disagree that that her testimony hurt her more than it helped her with respect to the conviction because the four who voted against death had plenty of time to consider her testimony, months even. And five did not vote for Felony Murder, which involved only intent. One wonders if, absent the gun theft prejudice, those five would have voted for M1 at all.

            Needless to say, no decent lawyer handling this overblown capital case would have kept her off the stand given the high risk of conviction that loomed ever larger as JSS’s prejudicial rulings [especially Grandpa’s gun theft and order of injuries] stacked the deck – because not having her testify would have presented the potential disaster of letting her hang out to dry in the eventuality of a penalty phase, with a mountain questions left unanswered about her mindset during that relationship.

            As regards your statement: “But if you leave out Jodi’s word, where’s the evidence that TA attacked her first?”, see today’s page. Jade didn’t put up all the shower photos, but the torso shot is what went wrong. In deleting that one, Jodi fumbled the camera and it fell to the floor. I agree with Journee and with Jodi’s sworn testimony that she did not take the ceiling shot.

            You wrote, just above at 4:56am, “So if you say it isn’t M1 – which I’ve been arguing for years then something must have set her off. So the inference that TA initiated this is there. But it’s the direct evidence that’s missing.”

            There is reasonable doubt that Jodi started the fight, isn’t there? I don’t see ANY evidence that SHE was “set off”. Self-defense could have been spelled out better simply by logically walking the jury through the elements of the crime scene, especially in closing arguments – if the jury would have listened, if they weren’t convinced of the shot being last and the “killed three times” assertion by the prosecution. Nurmi went for heat of passion in his closing of the guilt phase because he had been out-maneuvered by the prosecutor and hamstrung at every step by a biased judge, IMO, not because he doubted Jodi’s story.

            You wrote yesterday in your 7:48pm comment about instantaneous premeditation; I understand that you say now the term was not intended to be a technical one. You wrote, “So heat of passion is really the only possible explanation, other than some M1 based on an instantaneous premeditation (you know the argument where they say it takes but a split second to form the intent).” I’m not here to discuss “what they say”, sorry. I’m only here to look at the evidence presented in court, the sworn testimony, the court documents, and finally the judge’s instructions to the jury.

            Al, you say something bothers you about self-defense as a plea, that you feel Nurmi might have talked her into it. I have always felt skeptical that this was in any way a heat of passion killing. Jodi had too much self-control on the stand, was virtually unflappable against one of the toughest prosecutors out there, too much tolerance for TA’s emotional abuses (see text messages – she reacted calmly to his emotionalism) and there was no evidence in her diaries or brought in by any other means that Jodi was spiteful about his behavior or wanted to get even. You see no recriminations in her speech or writings with respect to TA, only a weariness about incompatibility and a desire to move on. She has no priors and made many friends at Joe’s jail – while being incarcerated five years, waiting for a trial during the most potentially vital period of her lifetime.

            I had no doubt from the start that the state’s case was built on a phony profile of Jodi beginning with the preposterous idea that she overpowered him with a knife. IMO, a case built upon a heat of passion plea would have to borrow by some critical degree (e.g. altering her story about the gunshot) from that bogus construction; doing so would undercut everything Jodi has brought to light about her relationship with the deceased, and everything the crime scene reveals that is exculpatory.

    • IMO Cindy,
      He was put in there.
      Picked up and put in there. IMO

      That’s the only thing that makes sense.
      Like all of the water from the small cup or glass.
      Doesn’t make sense.
      I didn’t help, did I?

      I lnow, I hate to go to bed wondering what the hell happened!!
      Sweet dreams!!

      • Well, hello everyone….I have been out all day and I am going to try to catch up now….Cindy, my husband weighs approx $155 pounds and I outweigh Jodi by many pounds and there is no way I could ever drag my husband on the floor anywhere….I just could not do it…and am active and walk pretty much every day and consider myself in fairly good shape….so I just can’t see Jodi who reportedly weighed 115lbs at the time dragging a heavy guy like TA who outweighed her by what 60lbs or so??? Impossible….IMHO

          • Plus BB,
            dead weight is even heavier.
            I don’t know if a scale would show that, but we know it’s true!

            I know that I’ve said it on here before but my husband broke his
            femur and he fell and 3 of us couldn’t pick him up and I know he wouldn’t
            appreciate being dragged, but that would have also been impossible.

            We finally all got him off of the floor, but I know it took a GOOD 30 minutes.

            My Mother had cancer and she wasn’t a big woman, but she fell and me and my 2 sisters couldn’t get her up.
            We called my brother and husband home from work.
            Really it is not easy to do.
            Plus it makes no sense for someone to kill someone out of the shower and drag them back.
            Which IMO couldn’t happen or disn’t happen.

            One of TA’s friends said that Jodi was wearing a long sleeve shirt to some place they were all attending. WELL, big deal!!!
            What about her face, hands and neck?
            If she would have done all of that she would have had cuts and bruises.
            A long sleeve shirt??? That was just silly for him to even say that, but they seem to not be the
            smartest people, right?
            I wonder how many there had on long sleeve shirts.
            Glad to see you.: )
            Here, it’s almost 1:00!

  35. “Good Friday” morning. interesting conversation last night!!!

    Guess the age old question of how TA got in the shower ready depends on what of the three scenarios that JM gave us you believe. Now do any of us believe anything that came out of his mouth?? Oh sure TA could have found refuge back in the shower. Jodi could have stabbed him in the chest, cut his throat and shot him in the head. But remember how small the shower is. He would have still been fighting her off. Then we have all that blood in the hallway to explain and that pesky dragging picture. The blood, now which of TA’s wrongs would have produced that amount of blood? Perhaps a combination of all of them if he was on coumadin. So the stab wound to the major artery had to be done before he was put in the shower. That would explain the large amount of blood on “both” sides of the hall way ways. Well if he was still standing after that. But then we have the dragging picture.

    Now for the swirly pictures on both sides of the hallway. It is possible that Jodi tried to clean up with the towel that was found in the washer. She could have gotten it dripping wet (very, very,very wet) and started to clean the walls. Possible but not probable. She would have had to get it wet in the shower because the blood on the sink didn’t look like it was touched. So she could have carried this dripping wet towel out of the bathroom into the hallway. OK that might explain some of the water in the bathroom. But did it hold enough water to saturate the carpeting? Then we have this dripping wet towel with a mixture of water and blood going down the steps into the wash room. Oh and wouldn’t you think the would be bladder splatter marks on the washer? Oops got to clean that off. Oh look at the floor drip marks, got to clean that up also.

    Well you see where I’m going with all this. Was there enought time for Jodi to have been busy with the attempt at cleaning up?
    Not according to JM’s serie(s). So even if we throw out the pictures of how do I put this hummm naked pictures. I’m going to believe they were taken at a earlier timeand the time stamps were changed. In fact we can really believe the time stamps on the shower pictures can we??

    OK let’s play pretend like the “prosecutor” did and say the shower picture were takes earlier. The fight brook out both of them experiencing adrenaline rushes. Jodi kills TA. draggs in the shower cuts his throat and shoot them in the head. Then she does the attempt at clean up. Jumps in the shower with TA to clean her self up…and so on. How long do people think a adrenaline rush last?? She would have been exhausted as anyone who has experience on adrenaline rush or a panic attack!!

    These are the things that keep this simple common thinking woman awake at night..

  36. So to follow up on jade and Cindy’s conversation earlier. (Just posting down here so it won’t get lost up there).

    I know we’ve talked about this off and on – but what’s with that footprint in the bathroom that no one wants to talk about. (if someone’s come up with an explanation and I’ve forgotten please remind me). Just to rehash, it obviously had to have been made when the blood was wet. I doubt if that was 5 days later, given the general arid conditions in AZ in June, and the air conditioning etc. So it had to be made earlier, when there was enough wet blood around to be picked up on the sole of a shoe to make that whole print. Seems rather large from the pictures (but that could be an optical illusion).

    I can understand JM not wanting to dwell on it, but what about the defense – or was it too much of an anomaly for their self-defense theory, so they figured if JM isn’t going to bring it up, nor will we. But if so, maybe they should have stopped and asked – well could there be something else in play here?

    So after all these years of resisting this theory of someone else being there, one must go back and rethink this through. Hate that when that happens! Drats.

    • Ha,ha,ha….follows the evidence..every single bit of it. Then try to put it together and what do you have??? Read my post above of what I have been struggling with all this time. Darn I forgot the boot print…

    • And how is it that there’s just ONE foot print?

      The person who left it saw s/he’d left a print so stopped to clean off the shoe but left the print?

      Stopped to TAKE off the shoe but left the print?

      Hopped on one foot the rest of the way out of the house?

      Or, um, maybe cleaned up a bunch of bloody footprints and missed one?

    Mark 10:34 – And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.

  38. Have you ever heard of the Mormon practice of “Blood Atonement”? They believe in “sacrificing” murdering members or ex-members of the church – that Jesus’ sacrifice of his life for our sins was insufficient to pay for all sins.
    People who did so little as to break a rule or to speak out against the church have been victims of “blood atonement” murder at the hands of the Mormon church members called Avenging Angels or Destroying Angels. They **slit their throats** of so-called “Apostates” guilty of speaking out against the church or church elders, for adultery, for biracial relationships, for not receiving the “gospel”, for lying, for a long list of which any single one of these acts they may be murdered by “blood atonement” – it is so eerie to hear about these practices, but more eerie is that they are still being practiced today! A family was shot to death and the one survivor said that it was an act of “blood atonement” and that their names were “on a list”. The woman, who appears in the documentary was killed – found shot to death in her home after the interview that can be found at the following site:

    Travis broke many of the rules of the church, not just one. He would be considered an apostate, and so would you, Jodi. What were the messages between them really about, when he is berating her for something to which you (Jodi) say you will “contact my lawyer” – the majority of these conversations were lost – was it the church and some accident that you revealed him in some way to the church? Was the price greater than anything your attorney could have protected you from? It seems like it. I don’t believe he was confessed to the church as is claimed.

    The Hughes retained his journals, and the Hughes were allowed to access and destroy evidence from his emails, correspondences and his personal journals. If it is the church, they left you with no one to turn to, for fear of their retaliation, and they hemmed you up and called for your blood to be spilt – for you to be executed for your “sins”. What better way to cover-up their act of “blood atonement” murder of Travis Alexander, than to pin it conveniently – with a host of ALL MORMON “witnesses” to point the finger at Jodi Arias, condemning an innocent to death in “atonement” executionary murder, as well.
    At least they weren’t able to take your life, by the sake of one single soul who they have been stalking – the holdout juror whose house they surrounded and who received their death threats – to the point police had to stake out her house.

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