Ashley Reed (Thompson) – the autopsy report

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According to the Flores Police Report, Ashley Reed (Thompson) called in an anonymous tip claiming her husband Dustin Thompson should be investigated with regards to TA’s death.

Click here to read Ashley Reed’s autopsy report from March 5th 2010.

Here’s an excerpt from page 12 of the Flores Police Report:

On 6-11-08, I received a tip through the Apache Junction Police Department. They had received an anonymous phone call from a female who stated we needed to look at a person named Dustin Thompson as someone who might have something to do with or might have information regarding the death of Travis Alexander. The message was short, but they were able to trace the phone number. Utilizing the phone number provided by A.J.P.D. we were able to get the subscriber information on that number, which returned to a cellular phone owned by Dustin Thompson.

A records check revealed that Dustin Thompson was married to a female named Ashley Thompson who worked at Dillard’s distribution center located in Gilbert, AZ. On 6-12-08 at 1530 hours, Detective D. Kaufman #11674 and I met with Ashley at her work for a brief interview. Ashley had a cellular phone with her during the interview. We asked for her cell phone number and confirmed it was the same number that had called in the tip to A.J.P.D. We did not confront her about the phone tip, because we were still in the process of gathering intelligence on her husband, Dustin.

Ashley confirmed she and Travis were close friends and mentioned they had known each other for about three years. She said her husband also knew Travis. During the interview, she kept referring to her husband, Dustin, as her ex-husband. She explained that they were currently in the process of a divorce and is currently living separately from him. She said they were having financial issues and it was causing stress in their marriage.

Ashley gave us basic information regarding her relationship with Travis saying they were just friends and nothing else. The last time she actually saw him or talked with him was at his last UFC (Ultimate Fighting Champion) party about three weeks ago. She said Travis would have UFC parties about every Wednesday where they would watch the fights. She said she tried to call him on Monday the 9th of June, but she didn’t get an answer. She stated that she first heard about Travis’ death the day after he was founds. She heard from another mutual friend named Deanna. Ashley said her husband, Dustin found out about Travis that first night. When she talked to Dustin, he told her he found out that first night and went over to see what was going on. Ashley gave us information about her husband, Dustin, including his work address and work schedule. She never mentioned during the entire interview that she was the one who called in with the anonymous phone tip. We finished the interview and asked if we could contact her again if we had any additional questions. She said that was fine.

Here’s an additional excerpt from page 17 of the Flores Police Report:

After his interview with Ashley Thompson, Detective Kaufman briefed me on his findings. He said Ashley did confirm that she was the one who called A.J.P.D. and left the anonymous information about her husband. She explained that she and her husband were having a lot of difficulties and he was just acting strange during that time. She and Travis were very close and she had even asked Travis about moving in with him as a roommate after her separation from her husband, Dustin. Both she and Travis agreed it was not a good idea she move in, because of the way it might look. They were just good friends and they didn’t want people to think something inappropriate was going on. After Travis was found she thought how strange Dustin had been acting. It was during the few weeks leading up to Travis’ death that she had moved out to her own apartment and they were both dealing with the possible foreclosure of their house.

Dustin Thompson was not interviewed that day, because of time constraints. He did agree to come in on another day for an interview if needed.

Ashley Reed committed suicide on March 3rd 2010.

It was ruled a suicide (from a single gunshot wound to the head) according to Dr Robert Lyon, Maricopa Medical Examiner.

Click here to read Ashley Reed’s autopsy report from March 5th 2010.

In addition, click here to read a 3/13/2013 report in relation to Dr Robert Lyon, and his dubious suicide ruling in relation to the death of police Sgt. Sean Drenth. The report is entitled: “New Phoenix police documents show suicide ruling in Sgt. Sean Drenth’s death may not be correct.”

Here’s an excerpt from the ABC15 report:

“ABC15 Investigators asked the Maricopa County Office of the Medical Examiner to respond to our questions about the case and explain why Dr. Robert Lyon would not meet with the family, the county spokesperson denied our request.

An internal email obtained by the ABC15 Investigators shows Dr. Lyon reacted to our request for information by sending an email to another staff member containing the following message, “WTF.

Lyon did not make an official ruling in the case after more than 400 days had passed since Drenth’s death.”

Leave your comments below…

SJ
Team Jodi

 

235 Comments

    • So many questions. Police report showing weapon location, etc. Who owned the weapon? Was there a 911 call? Who found Ashley? Did the police question Dustin?

      • Yes, way more questions than answers as usual. I hope with this post that someone with additional information may come forward. According to the Flores report, they never bothered to interview Dustin r.e. TA’s death due to “time constraints”, so one would deem it highly unlikely they’d interview him over this unfortunate event.

        SJ
        Team Jodi

        • WOW! I didn’t realize they never interviewed Dustin Thompson. I’m really thinking now that there may be good reason why Jodi doesn,t recall the stabbing (besides the amnesia, which I do believe she has) Something is really strange about all of this. Maybe they should try hypnotism on Jodi, after all.

          Sounds like the PD and the DA have an MO of just following the path of least resistance when it comes to their investigations.

          • Detective Flores was told who to pin it on within minutes of arriving on scene by TA’s friends and he complied. He got “tunnel vision” on the name Jodi Arias. An appropriate action by the Police on the crime scene would have been to handcuff and separate all civilians or friends, so that they could not exchange information concerning the findings or opinions about any crime scene related information. That is a technique I have seen and been a participant of in my neighborhood. Do not let them collaborate until they are ruled out as suspects. Poor, Poor, Police work.

          • Is this the same Dustin Thompson?

            Could he be that he was acting “weird” because of what he was up to in life seperate from the JA. Case?

            Investor Sentenced to 27 Months for Role in $4 Million Mortgage Fraud Scheme
            U.S. Attorney’s Office May 03, 2011

            District of Arizona (602) 514-7500

            PHOENIX—Dustin Thompson, 32, of Phoenix, was sentenced on Monday to 27 months in prison for his involvement in a $4 million mortgage fraud scheme. Thompson pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit wire fraud, a felony, related to his participation in a two-year conspiracy involving the purchase of 24 properties in Phoenix using fraudulent loan documents. One other co-conspirator was also charged and has pleaded guilty.

            “Driven by greed, this defendant schemed the system and engaged in the type of mortgage fraud that has destroyed property values, lending institutions, and entire neighborhoods in our community,” said U.S. Attorney Dennis K. Burke. “This office, along with our partners in the FBI and IRS, is committed to prosecuting those who engage in mortgage fraud and putting them in prison.”

            The case against Thompson was based on an investigation by the Internal Revenue Service and Federal Bureau of Investigation. Investigators discovered that from 2005 through June of 2007, Thompson conspired to commit mortgage fraud by submitting fraudulent mortgage loan applications on behalf of straw buyers, under false pretenses. He obtained and disbursed the proceeds of the fraudulently obtained loans, including directing $1.2 million of the proceeds to a bank account under his control. Thompson used the proceeds from the fraud for personal expenses and to finance other “get rich” schemes. Thompson received a reduced sentence due to his early guilty plea and cooperation. The entire conspiracy resulted in a loss to lending institutions of approximately $4 million.

            The investigation in this case was conducted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The prosecution is being handled by Kevin M. Rapp, Assistant U.S. Attorney, District of Arizona, Phoenix.

            CASE NUMBER: CR-09-00386-PHX-ROS

            RELEASE NUMBER: 2011-080(Thompson)

            • I believe that is a different Dustin Thompson. That one is Dustin Michael Thompson with a different birth date that the Dustin JAMES Thompson in the police report.

              🙂

          • When the events do not implant in the brain, as Dr. Samuels said, there is nothing to recall because the memories simply aren’t there. People who have blackouts from getting drunk will never be able to remember what happened because nothing that happened during the blackout implanted so there is nothing to recall so hypnosis can’t help.

        • Here is another thing that bothers me-
          Supposedly one of his roommates was home blasting music in one of the other bedrooms. Did anyoe question that dude? The peopple who came in and found the body stated a roommate was home blaring music, they also mentioned the stench< so what now?

      • This is what I’d like to say first and foremost-
        I empathize and sympathize with Jodi and THAT is NOT a CRIME or a lapse in judgement or a character flaw as that ant eater looking, no good, screaming, ABUSIVE prosecutor kee[s alluding to to that kind doctor.

  1. She was shot by a larger caliber and more powerful weapon than the 25 ACP, this one possibly using a full metal jacket bullet otherwise the exit wound would have been larger.

    Rather short for an autopsy report, almost a case of where its just a perfunctory report because one needs to be made for the record. No internal analysis etc. Do we know if there were witnesses. Suicides sometimes happen with witnesses and then all the ME is doing is checking off a box on a form which would account for this short “non-report”.

    Not to be a royal pain in the JM, but what the heck does this have to do with Jodi’s trial?

    • What does it have to do with Jodi’s trial you asked? Well Ashley had called in an anonymous tip when she found out TA had died stating she thought her ex husband may have something to do with it. Now Ashley is dead too from an apparent suicide that is questionable to me.

      • And she had a restraining order against Dustin. Why would the police not do further investigations especially given the closeness to the Travis case. Dustin was jealous/suspicious of Travis because of his friendship with Ashley, yet Dustin shows up at Travis’ house during the police investigation. Really? Why?

      • I hear you Debbie, but the defense has acknowledged that Jodi did the killing. That is my point. I don’t think there is any way that they can go back on that claim, ever. Not in this trial and not in any future trial. If they do the raise another theory, then every thing that was said in this trial with respect to the shot, the vague memory of the knife in her hand at some stage and falling to the tile floor will be used to further discredit Jodi. So if this is raised as an issue we now have everything said in this trial lumped on top of all the other crap. And by the way everything said in this trial becomes admissible in any future trial.

        So, even if there is some validity to the Dustin Thompson claim, that horse has left the barn. We can talk about shoulda, woulda, coulda, till we are blue in the face. But the reality is that we have a professed theory of the case as presented by the defense. That theory is now on the record and any other theory raised at this stage can, in my opinion, only have a negative effect on the outcome.

        Hopefully that explains my statement “what the heck does this have to do with Jodi’s trial”. This is all moot unless at this stage the defense provides proof, beyond a reasonable doubt, that someone else did it and Jodi’s claim was all a tactic to avoid the death penalty. And I don’t believe they can do that.

        • There is only one problem with the self defense theory… Jodi has claimed self defense because she knows her and Travis were in a fight and she must have shot him( never noticed a gunshot wound)because she was holding a gun and it went off.She remembers nothing else of it, therefore she is going by what she has been told not by her own memories.It is pretty easy to tell someone they did something when they can’t remember anything.

          • Did Jodi ever admit to holding the knife? I recall her saying she remembers hearing the knife drop to the tile floor, did she indicate that she was the one that dropped it? As for the stabbing did she not say that she assumes she did it because given the rest of the events of that day it was the most likely scenario… meaning she never actually admitted to remembering doing it, just admitting that it was more likely than not that she did it….?

            • Not that I am aware of Neo, she stated that she heard the knife drop and assumed that she was the one holding it.Concerning the knife, in the report it stated that all the knife sets were in the kitchen and complete.They alluded to the fact that the knife used to kill TA was not one of those knives, however I am not aware of any testing done to show if there had been blood on any of those knives.

              • The testimony misled in that regard. Crime scene photos show the kitchen with one large knife from the wooden knife block in the dishwasher. The knife in the dishwasher matched the knives in the block in pattern. (Flores report and crime scene photos) They were all in the house. Just not all in the same place in the house (one in the dishwasher).

          • Actually there are more problems than that one. But the real issue here is the current status and what options Jodi has. So let’s assume for arguments sake, that Dustin actually did this and the police should have investigated him. Given that they didn’t and that Jodi did in fact raise a self defense argument what options does she have at this stage?

            I guess if some evidence were to be uncovered that proved she had nothing to do with this killing she could hire other counsel and immediately petition the court to dismiss current counsel on grounds of incompetence. She would also have to petition the court to issue an order declaring a mistrial and a new trial. Furthermore in that new trial she would either require the court to declare all her statements about self defense in this trial inadmissible, or she would have to present proof that current counsel manipulated and/or coerced her into agreeing to the self defense charges. At that stage she would have waived any attorney client privilege between her and KN and JW and would also have questioned their integrity as attorneys which they would be forced to defend.

            On the flip side the state would now present the jury with yet another story. So we would have the I wasn’t there story, the intruder story, the self defense story and the Dustin Thompson story.

            So regardless of what the true situation may be, and what anyone else’s involvement in this case may be, the current status is that she has proffered up a current story – self defense, and has gone on the record, under oath, and claimed that there are certain aspects she does remember. I don’t believe she will ever be able to get past that in this trial, or any other re-do of this trial.

            If such a situation does in fact exist (i.e. some other guy did it) then the defense would have to collect evidence to a high degree of certitude ad possibly present it at the appellate level in a two or three-pronged presentation – newly discovered evidence leading to proof of actual innocence, inadequacy of counsel during the first trial, and possibly police or state incompetence/misconduct.

            That is all I am saying. I am not commenting on the veracity of any claim about Dustin Thompson, or molding of Jodi’s testimony. I’m just saying that given the reality of the current situation any info about Dustin Thompson’s involvement, or Ashley Thompson’s suicide is irrelevant to this trial.

            • You are absolutely correct Al. Although it does show, once again, shoddy Police investigation, it cannot effectively be a part of this trial. I believe that the defense team has done a good job and that Jodi will be aquitted of the charges via self defense.

              • I forgot to mention that the police need to further invesigate the death of Ashley and look at the possiblity that Dustin did in fact kill her. Look at Drew Peterson, he got away with murder for many years when the police and ME didn’t do their jobs.

            • In other words, the “real” murderer would have to come forward with a confession that explains why Jodi remembers what she has testified to thus far, the “real” murderers part in all of it, and he/she would have to explain how they threatened the life out of Jodi’s family if she didn’t take the blame. Not only that, though, in order for anyone to take that person seriously enough to clear Jodi of all charges, that person is going to have to have two present the prosecution two gifts- The gun and knife used to kill Travis.

              I’m sure it won’t come as a shock to anyone here when I say this is not likely going to happen. I would say, with absolute certainty, it won’t happen but I like to leave myself room to back peddle in the event I’m wrong. Which, is like, hardly ever.

              So, I’m with Al on this. Instead of continuing on with this proverbial beating of our heads against the wall in an effort to find that one missing piece of this puzzle that will clear Jodi and save her life, we need to redirect our attention to the matter at hand and finish the puzzle with the pieces we KNOW we have to work with.

              I don’t have enough faith in the system to say the truth will prevail because I, personally, experienced otherwise. I am not religious, I’m agnostic more than anything but I don’t like labeling myself as anything other than a human being. As such, I follow my own moral compass and adhere to my own code of ethics. I am strong in my convictions, I stay true to myself, and I treat others how I hope to be treated. I do not learn life lessons through the Bible, I learn them through my failures.

              I believe in Fate and that everything happens for a reason but, just like the truth of this case, that ‘reason why’ is not ours to know. That being said, Jodi is going through this for a reason. Either she is fulfilling her purpose in someone’s life or, from these events, something will come and fulfill it’s purpose in her life.

              Do not fear for Jodi’s life. She is a force not to be reckoned with and she will survive. This is not a girl willing to go quietly into the night. To lay down and die without a fight. After all, if she was, we wouldn’t be here discussing this, right?

          • This is why I think she has has false memory syndrome. Her confession was coerced. I also suspect that the ME who dealt with Ashley’s ‘suicide’ is Mormon and has or would provide false information in the report. Why is it that i can’t find any suicide photos (CSI) as a death is not immediately ruled a suicide, the police would be compelled by their training to take photos of the scene. So, what about the gun, the caliber, the type of round. The report I read clearly shows this was NOT a suicide (entrance wound is not consistent with a suicide) and the measurement of the entrance wound raises my suspicions. I feel that this was a murder/execution and Dustin is to blame. Where was he when Travis was killed? Would forensics show these were the same bullets? The same caliber? The same type of round (ie hollow point, FMJ?). To me, this whole scenario raises more questions than it answers.

        • What if they find out Dustin or someone else killed
          Travis and Jodi was protecting others.
          After the story about the 2 intruders, she sure could have
          testified to save her family and others.

          That isn’t a conspiracy, I actually believe her first stories.
          And that would even make more sense about Jodi sending flowers to
          his Grandmother. She is the only one in the Alexander family that Jodi
          knew.

        • I understand what your saying Al, however i’m not intested in Jodi’s innocense just because it is Jodi…but because i am intrested in justice, and i think Jodi has not been found guilty of the charges. If proof of either charge comes out, that convinces me otherwise, then i will be in favor of a guilty verdict (not that i think there is a chance of that..but it COULD happen, i guess)

          So, to answer the real question here, i would say this is VERY important to consider, regardless of how it impacts Jodi. Again, im on the side of truth/justice here. The idea that Jodi and the defense shouldnt be able to bring up what they feel is the “truth” or a possible answer to unanswerd questions is a slap in the face of the judicial system.

          Imagine this… What if Jodi and Dustin planned this together. What if the intruder story was true! What if a number of “hard to prove” events happened that day and Jodi and the defense knows the real story. What I’m saying is, maybe the “truth” is too hard to prove or too unbalieveable, that they needed to settle on a story that was easier to defend.

          Picture this… The night before opening day of deer hunting, two friends get drunk, and cause a scene in a local bar, they start to push each other, yelling violence threats at each other and promising ill will to each other. Your basic “Drunkin friends fighting” situation.. They go back to the cabin and pass out, wake up and go hunting. There is no ill will between the two, they are still best of friends… They just drank too much and both feel horrible for the words they said. That morning while hunting, a deer runs between the two hunters and hunter 1 shoots hunter 2..TOTALLY on accident. He knows that everyone is going to think he murdered him. If people do believe that he didnt try to kill him, he is scared he should have been safer, while hunting. He wonders if he could be in trouble for some “negligent death” law, etc… He is scared and he doesnt want to go to prison. So he comes up with a more believeable story of his friend attacking him in the woods, and he is defending himself. That would be STUPID for him to do, but once he has started down the “lie” path, the truth will no longer set him free. He has a family, he knows he is not a killer, and he is scared to go to prison. What would you do?

          Jodi could very well be in the same situation. She is guilty of lying, but we dont know what the truth is. She could be totally truthful now, or she could be totally lying. THAT DOESNT matter though. the point of the system is for the state to PROVE one of these stories is the truth, AND then show how that “truth” is a crime, AND pick that crime to charge her with.
          IMO, they picked the wrong crime, they have not proven ANY story. The defense doesnt have to prove shit, and the fear of telling 2-3-4-5 stories shouldnt mean ANYTHING to the jury. She should be able to offer up 100 possible stories, if it shows that she COULD be innocent.

          I fell that the defense has made 1 big mistake on this trial….they have backed themselves into a corner with 1 story, and now if they cant prove that story is true, i fear a jury that doesnt understand the law will convict her of a crime they didnt prove.

  2. “The direction of the wound path with respect to the standard anatomic position is from right to left, front to back, and downward.”
    Gee I wouldn’t shoot my head off holding the gun DOWNWARD.

  3. Okay correct me if I am wrong here , but, did the ME in the TA case not state that there was no stippling because the gun was shot from too far away? And, if that is true, why then would there be no stippling in two places they checked on Ashley Reed’s head since they have deemed it a suicide? It would be at very close range. According to wiki :Stippling may also refer to the circular pattern of dots created around a gunshot wound when a firearm is discharged in very close proximity to the skin.

    • Also there was no reference in the ME report re gunshot residue on her hand. I was pretty surprised to see such a limited examination and no reference to the type of bullet that was retrieved from her hair.

      • My point exactly. Which led to my question of whether there were witnesses to the suicide and the ME’s report is just a mere formality. Anyone seen the police incident report?

          • No BeeCee that would have been Mimi Hall or Lisa Diadone not Ashley Reed. Ashley was the one that called in the anon tip that her ex may have had something to do with it the day after they found TA’s body.

            • I was referring to the fact that Ashley ran in the same circles as TA, therefore some of the friends could have been the same.

              • Oh yes sorry BeeCee I misread your post, I thought you were referring to Ashley as calling Jodi a stalker. Ashley was actually a good friend of Deanna , TA’s ex.

                • Or may be he got tired after trying his fantasies out on one person and wanted fresh meat. Sort of like he did with Jodi. Used her and then dumped her. One of his bozo buddies actually used the term “kicked her to the curb” in an interview.

                  Whatever else may be TA and his buddies were one sick bunch of bastards.

                • Yes, he didn’t just used her, he destroyed her. I’m not so sure he dumped her either, that’s what he said to his friends. I think he was addicted to having her around as his sexual, mental and physical punching bag ‘whore.’

                • Ex’s don’t necessarily mean former lovers or bed mates. I can say I have 6 Ex’s, none of which were lovers or sexual partners. In younger (18-29) LDS individuals (with some exceptions, i.e.; Travis in this case) almost all are not sexually active. I was the epitome of he shy, hand holding (sitting shoulder to shoulder, thigh to thigh with no other contact AT ALL) type of girl. Most of us were at that time in our youth.

          • What happened about the stalker story and the girl slashing his tires?
            It wasn’t Jodi or someone could prove it.

            Like the guy and girl that called in on the first 911 call where they
            said he was dead in the bedroom.
            Whoever said he was dead in the bedroom may have been the one to drag him to
            the shower.

        • I have a question for you Al. If someone was a witness to a suicide, would that not make them an accessory? I have never heard of anyone actually witnessing a suicide.

          • Don’t know. But I know of all kinds of situations where there witnesses to suicide, including folks jumping from buildings, or bridges, to shooters whio do it in public, to a bunch of other instances.

            I would guess you only become liable if you assist in any way, but then I’m not a lawyer.

            • Ive heard of people blowing their heads off right in front of their spouse and children in news reports! Suspect it happens fast.

              • JC TEAM JODI ADMIN how many children did Dustin and Ashley have?????
                read on this site she died on March 3 2010. What day did Jodi change her story about the intruders.?????????
                If you check the comments 3/27/2013 a video of the police interagation of Jodi where she mentions Deanna the one that called
                ashley to let her know Travis was found dead right. Flores says to her Deanna dated Travis for 6 yrs and he did not marry her and more cant remember the rest. someone else found that video.

  4. Excerpt from Manual of Forensic Emergency Medicine ED Ralph Riviello

    A final tool that helps determine the difference between a homicide and a suicide is the path of the bullet. At the time of death, suicide victims are typically in a stable and comfortable position, allowing them to point the gun in a predetermined way. In contrast, the dynamic situation of a homicide creates multiple different paths that the bullet may take. Gunshots to the right temple tend to show a front to back or upward bullet path in suicides. Therefore, a downward shot or a back-to-front shot should raise suspicion despite its typical shot location.

      • It could be that Ashley wasn’t accustomed to holding a gun and either struggled with its weight or didn’t position it properly.

        Poor woman. RIP Ashley.

          • “In suicidal gunshots to the right temple (n=107), only 6% of the bullet paths were directed downwards and only 4% were directed from back-to-front.”

            • 6% for downwards. Thanks. Too bad the autopsy did not measure the angles. I still can’t imagine someone pointing it downward and front to back, you have to twist your wrist above the head, and women usually have shorter fingers/hands than men making it harder to press the trigger in that position.
              Notwithstanding that very few women kill themselves that way. But perhaps in AZ they do.
              In Afghanistan they burn themselves to death, but there are suspicions that someone else in their family helps them.

              • I know of a woman who shot herself in the head. But you’re right, typically women choose less violent options like cutting their wrists or an overdose. I’m curious to know more about the gun Ashley used (or was used on her) and where it came from.

  5. If a stolen gun is proof beyond a reasonable doubt that jodi premeditated the killing of TA than this Ashley story is proof beyond a reasonable doubt that dustin has something to do with the killing too

    Correct me if I’m wrong

    • Other than the fact that a 25 cal slug was puled out of his head and there is no physical evidence of Dustin being at the crime scene?

    • Sorry, don’t get that at all. The prosecution is alleging that Jodi stole the gun from her grandparents and used that gun.

      This is a suicide of a person who was a friend of TA’s long after the fact. It is true that she called the police and said they should look at her husband. But this suicide is almost two years after the fact. I would be more inclined to believe some nexus existed if this happened immediately after the killing. But two years later stretches credibility a mite.

      • I am not saying it has anything to do with what happened that day at TA;s house, I am just not so sure that it was a suicide is all.

      • Al…what if…

        In 2010…two years had gone by…and it was getting closer to an upcoming trial for Jodi…

        Possibly…Dustin had grown more desperate and anxious over the course of those two years worrying…on numerous things…all the what if’s could have been the motivating factor to cause him to terminate the one person who could implicate him in the upcoming trial…

        Possibly….He deliberately waited out those two years looking for the right opportunity….and methodically thought it out…

        Possibly…He was afraid of what Ashley would say in the upcoming trial and he knew her testimony would have been powerful against him…

        • Truthseeker,

          What if…..

          His waiting 2 years actually gave her the time to go to the police.

          The two extra years gave the police more time to investigate him.

          The two years of no investigation showed he was free and now doing this would re-open the issue.

          He believed that the police would believe that he waited two years so they wouldn’t suspect him, after all she had already called the police (the old double psych).

          He had absolutely nothing to do with her death.

          The what if game can go on ad nauseum. I think we just don’t know enough of what happened here to be able to make any sort of educated guess.

          • technically it was 1 year 9 months. 3 months more it would be 2 years, 3 months less it would be 1.5 years. LOL

            “He had absolutely nothing to do with her death.”

            We don’t actually know that for a fact. We know that her death was called a suicide. We also know that the ME is unprofessional and that investigators get things wrong sometimes.

            I would need more information to see how they decided it was a suicide and not homicide before a can agree either way.

            • Same here.
              On her second interview she knew that the police would tell her husband that she made the anonymous phone call pointing the finger at him. Two years later she might have found the courage to threaten her husband or ex to call the police again.
              Many cold cases are reopened because someone comes clean after years. They keep quiet from fear, intimidation or shame. Look at this guy who knew for twenty years that an innocent man was in jail for murder: as a kid and a witness, he was told by a cop to pick that guy on the lineup.

      • I knew a guy personally that killed someone in 83 and the only reason that he was caught was that the sister got pissed off at her sister nd went to the police.
        This was 88. If she hadn’t gotten mad, this case would never have been solved.

    • now we are getting all SAT style here. Stolen gun is to premeditated murder as suicide of tipster is to Dustin having a part in it.

        • Al…

          Ashley’s autopsy report states scalp hair is 2 inches long, brown and straight…

          On her photos her hair looks to be shoulder length…

          Sean’s autopsy report states scalp hair estimated 1/4 ” long, black and straight…

          Does the medical examiner cut the person’s hair short for their examinations?

          • I would assume they would note the hair length on arrival and then may be cut it for inspecting certain areas if needed. I know Kevin Horn said he had to shave parts of TA’s scalp.

  6. Too many unanswered questions at this point in relation to Ashley’s suicide to draw any hard conclusions. The whole thing is suspect though. I think Al has a great point in that it may be a mute point at this time in the Defense’s case for Jodie. Unless some major development of a substantial nature suddenly arises, this will not have an impact for Jodie in this trial. I certainly never say never though.

  7. Jodi’s plea bargain, which the State ignored, warned of “collateral damage to other individuals ….. TA carried on numerous relationships…..Marriages would be affected standing within the religious community

    • Juan Martinez ignored a plea bargain ….. Jodi is a person of vision and of greater character than we can imagine, being that she was willing to sit in jail for most of her life in order to save families, lives, and reputations which Travis Alexander jeopardized because he wouldn’t control his sexual malfunctions. Chris and Sky Hughes enabled this immoral behavior by allowing them to have sex in their house being the halfway point between Mesa, Az and Yreka, Ca. They both rate an Ex-communication from LDS for this alone. Chris Hughes is running away from all this havoc he created or enabled, by moving to the hills, away from the storm. Chris Hughes is such a coward.

    • The plea did warn of collateral damage, if the state did not accept . However, their was nothing specific to what that collateral damage was. Since the state did not accept the plea … I would guess that the “collateral damage” was the family of TA having to learn about all their bedroom activities, etc. The defense has really no reason to hide it now. Unless JA is still holding back details .. but I just dont see any reason to hold back your defense in a DP case. But who knows.

      • It kind of makes me laugh when I read from TA supporters how evil Jodi is and how Travis did not deserve to die, “even if he was having sex, sex does not deserve death”, or some variation of Travis did not deserve to die like he did. This makes me laugh because the people saying this are Mormon and Travis was Mormon. As such, they should know that, given the fact that Travis had received his Temple Endowments, which, includes him making covenants with God that include the vow of Chasity. Not only that, but he received Temple garments and those can be equated to the Holy Grail in terms of how sacred they are to be held by those who wear them. While the Penalty portion of the Endowment ceremony was eliminated completely in 1990, I have not seen anything stating they no longer teach this. I have only read that they no longer require the initiates to make the gestures signifying the 3 ways to kill someone when performing the Blood Atonement during the Endowment.

        My point is, Mormons believe a Penalty of Blood Atonement is appropriate for the most grievous of sins such as murder or the violation of one’s covenants to God because, for those sins, the blood of Christ can not atone by itself. So, by either slitting the throat from ear to ear, tearing out the heart, or disembowelment a person who has committed such sins can atone for them with their own blood and death. Travis engaged in oral sex while wearing his Temple garments with a woman to whom he was not married. I’d say that’s 2 major violations of his covenants to God. So, according to the Mormon belief in regards to the Blood Atonement Penalty……..

        Travis Alexander DID deserve to die in the exact manner in, which, he was killed.

        THAT is one of the many reasons why I do not, personally, care for religion. Especially, if a religion teaches or references the Bible. How can you speak of God’s Commandments by quoting, “Thou Shalt Not Kill”, and then order someone killed by Blood Atonement?

        Anyway, I just find it funny, in a very sad and tragic way, when TA supporters say stuff like that.

      • The collateral damage that was implied in the plea bargain was the relationships Travis had with many people. Marriages were predicted to suffer from the revelation of his secret life. Standing in the church for certain ranking members, which is evident by the LDS leadership absence in court or press. Friendships were going to suffer among TA’s circle. Chris Hughes and Gus Searcy had a falling out beacause Gus has integrity and planned on revealing that Travis was at least mentally and verbally abusive to Jodi. Chris Hughes has no integrity and perjured himself in court, not to mention it was obvious that he tried to intimidate Gus into disrespecting our Constitution and impeding in Jodi receiving a fair trial, so not only did he lose street credibility by showing how soft he is , including trying those intimidation tactics in court with Nurmi, which resulted in the entire US seeing that Nurmi was the Alpha male, so I’m assuming he too lost respect in the church. Not to mention he gave his blessing to Travis to use the Hughes residence to have sexual encounters. He surely lost respect from church members and not to mention that his children will always remember that he and Sky allowed booty calls to go on in the house, not to mention that kids hear everything that goes on in a sexual relationship. I heard my parents making love throughout my childhood, which is absolutely normal, but what is not normal nor responsible parental behavior is exposing your kids to fornication going on in the next room, it was their choice and they have their excuse, because reason they did not exercise. Lets be honest, as hard as we try to wait till they are asleep , they either walk in on us or hear their parents. Now my older teen sons tell me they at times heard me and their mother making love at times.

        • Hopefully TA didn’t molest the Hughes children, if he did it happened on Chris Hughes watch and he’ll have to answer to his children for not protecting them. Travis was so addicted to anal sex it wouldn’t surprise me if he and Chris Hughes were homosexual lovers, if we all recall Chris Hughes was quoted as saying with an uncommon grin “There was no One on the planet like Travis”. I feel bad for all the parents who are now losing sleep thinking if there 12 year old daughter was the rape victim that TA was bragging about on the recording. I was raised Catholic but no longer follow that cult since 16 years of age, by choice. Being an altar boy was a status symbol and a bragging point for the affluent families in our church. Being 1 of 9 kids it was obvious that we would never be selected as altar boys; in addition my dad disagreed with organized religion and warned us to stay away from the pervs…which we did. Never did we di the altar boy gig… Needless to say 25 years later a lady in therapy informed her counselor that our priest raped her and being that he was still practicing at the same church an investigation erupted. The priest was transferred because people started coming forward..mostly former altar boys… The ones that used to brag and tease me that I was too poor to be an altar boy. I don’t believe that income was the reason they were chosen it was because most affluent families in the church had 1 child … So they were easy targets that didn’t have a soul to talk to….. Those of us from big families protect each other…we tell each other everything…. You can’t chew a piece of gum without having to tear it into small pieces and sharing , you can’t do nothing without everyone being in the middle of it all , much less a priest taking advantage of one from a large family. This was the MO of said priest.

          • Phillip-
            I have been disgusted by the Hughes’. You are correct that one day they may have to explain to their children why they didn’t protect them, and instead protected an abuser.

  8. Starting to sound like this is all an act of the mormon mafia cult with Jodi as the scapegoat, too afraid to divulge the name of others out of fear of retaliation.

    • The more I see about the murder, the more I see ritualistic characteristics. So many stab wounds on the stomach and the head, etc. in addition to the back, cutting the throat from ear to ear and nearly decapitating the victim, washing the dead body in water, washing the linens, etc. It may have been derived from religious afterthoughts… who knows…but I have heard and read about really brutal killings that go into overdrive, but this murder appears to have signs of ritual appeasement, even if the ritual was some kind of modification….

      • Mattie-
        I agree. There are definite signs of ritualistic killing. I could be wrong, especially since I don’t know all the facts in this case, but I think the murder involves more than a jealous rage of some kind. It could also lend more credence to the theory of more than one person being involved in the killing and aftermath as well as help explain how Jodi didn’t have a lot of blood on her or in the car after leaving the house….(unless she had so much time after the killing she hung around,washed all the blood off and changed into other clothing before leaving the house, getting into her car and driving off.)

        Also, I believe I read that Travis didn’t customarily lock the door to his house…..this, as well as the roommates having no set schedule and coming in and out with their girlfriends at any time would be incentive for a killer or killers to get into the house easily enough or leave the crime scene pretty quickly-just some thoughts that make one wonder.

      • I think some of those wounds, particularly the slitting of TA’s neck are related to biblical writings, but not ritualistic. Instead I think they are related to a mercy killing. I have mentioned this before here, I get this gut feeling that there was the fight and TA was shot, and then at some point, Jodi saw his suffering & slit his throat to end it. Maybe the stabbing was still part of the fight, or maybe it was part of the mercy killing. I keep thinking of some story in the old testament when a village of Israelites were about to be sieged, and they all killed themselves, children 1st in the most humane way like a butcher would kill an animal, by cutting the jugular.

        I know some stories of people who loved animals & felt a pet was severely suffering. One story was about a cat that got terribly injured by a car & instead of taking it to a vet, this person paniced & broke the animals neck to end its suffering. I keep thinking of this & that bible story related to this killing.

    • Please read the books Edgar Longenecker keeps pointing to: “The God Makers” & “Under the Banner of Heaven.”
      They are well-researched non-fiction by Jon Krakauer. Ever hear of the Lafferty Brothers? Knowing what these books document is the only way to make sense of this “trial” that all of us are living through together these past six plus years. It is important to understand the dynamics of such powerful organizations before you cast your precious vote in any upcoming elections. Things are not as they seem.

      This info is not the stuff of outdated history. It was 1984 (not 1894!) when Dan Rafferty received his “removal revelation” such that he was commanded by god to kill four individuals in his family whom god said were obstructing the progress of god’s work. Dan felt privileged to carry this out, and he did.

    • Thanks, Bee Cee, can you dig up the same charts for the whole US?
      I wouldn’t move to AZ either.
      From 1999 to 2009 the rate of women suicides in AZ has increased dramatically more than the rate of men suicides.

  9. Last Thursday, my book club had quite the “discussion” about Jodi’s case. Well, it was me against 5 educated women and that is really hard to do since they are smart and are my great friends. The main argument against Jodi was they believe that she can remember killing Travis and this was their “proof”.

    1. Jodi said that last thing she remembered was pointing the gun at Travis and the gun went off. She said she did not know that she had even hit him because he kept charging and slammed her down saying “effing kill you b**ch”

    2. The next time she remembers is when she comes out of the fog and realizes there is blood on her hands and feet.

    3. My friends say since she doesn’t remember even shooting Travis, why would she start getting rid of the gun, rope, car mats etc ? Why would she assume that Travis was dead if all she could remember was the gun going off and not even hitting Travis? For all she knew, Travis was still alive and the blood could have come from her.

    4. My friends said if she really had the amnesia the good Doc says she had, then the memory never formed and she wouldn’t have got rid of the “evidence” because she had no idea that Travis was dead.

    5. They also said that Gus Searcy said that she told him on a 3:00 AM call that Travis was dead and how would she know that if she had amnesia about the incident.

    I could not come back at them with a good explanation because believe me, when 5 people are arguing against you it is really hard to formulate a good answer.

    I believe, like I think Debbie from earlier said…that Nurmi must of convinced her she did it. But then my friends said that that explanation is after the fact because her actions in the desert proved she knew that Travis was dead.

    I said that when somebody was as stressed as Jodi would have been, then fear might have made her assume that Travis was dead but my book club wasn’t having any of it.

    Could anybody give me a good comeback theory so I can convince my friends?

    Also, they were saying that the roommates were very recent renters in the house…one had lived there only 2 weeks and another less than three months. I have never heard that and can not find it anywhere. Is that true or was that a made-up fact from my friends?

    • “Could anybody give me a good comeback theory so I can convince my friends?”

      If they really watched the trial and still don’t believe the testimony from Dr. Samuels, who is extremely knowledgeable, then really nothing you try to say to them will make a difference because their blinders are on.

      One cannot convince people who are unable to see things from various viewpoints, they are physically unable to imagine it, therefore to them it isn’t possible.

      • I agree you cannot convince them. Even the people here do not agree on how or what happened, same as the TA side. This case is very limited on indisputable facts. A large portion of the evidence / testimony lends itself to interpretation. But once someone forms an opinion , unless some new evidence come to light … you will never change their mind.

    • I agree with BeeCee. Plus, the good doctor actually addressed the issue of her actions following the killing. Your friends clearly didn’t wish to hear that part of the testimony and are convinced no matter what you say. 🙂 Good for you though, for trying to defend Jodi and the actual evidence.

    • I believe Jodi has no memory of events following the gunshot. It is doing her no good to not have those memories to describe how she needed to continue to fight off her attacker. If she had those memories she would be better able to describe the self-defense. This is not selective memory loss. Dr. Samuel’s testimony was only to explain that this memory loss can and does occur after a traumatic event. If she had real clear thought and had something to hide, would she have left the camera? No. Leaving that camera shows that she did not premeditate this.

      When she found herself in the desert with bloody hands she may have thought it was her blood until she rinsed off with the water. Getting rid of the gun, rope – I could see myself doing that in that state of fear and confusion. I have found myself driving and realized I had driven way past my destination and wondered how did I space out?

      As for the Gus phone call, Did Jodi’s phone records show that call? I think he is mistaken about the date of that call. The prosecution would have been all over the Gus phone call if they had evidence that such a call took place on that date and time. The prosecution distancing themselves from Gus speaks volumes.

      Let’s go back to that third “gas can” – I know enough with the gas cans right? Martinez is clearly trying to plant thoughts in the jury’s heads. The receipt says this was a Kerosene can and yet he states Walmart has no record of a return of a gas can. Well of course they don’t – they have a record of a return of a kerosene can.

    • “My friends say since she doesn’t remember even shooting Travis, why would she start getting rid of the gun, rope, car mats etc ? Why would she assume that Travis was dead if all she could remember was the gun going off and not even hitting Travis? For all she knew, Travis was still alive and the blood could have come from her.”

      I would think that it would be instinct to get rid of anything covered in blood, whether it’s yours or not and whether you know for sure if you’ve definitely killed someone.

      • Kira, that is exactly what I said…I would want to get rid of anything bloody. My friends said that if theat would have been the case, that Jodi would have gotten rid of everything at once rather than piecemeal… throwing the rope in a dumpster, the gun in the desert etc. They said she was just getting rid of evidence so she wouldn’t get caught. And then they brought up how she practiced making the voicemail call to Travis pretending she hadn’t been there…

        I think BeeCee, TR and kw are probably right…my friends aren’t going to change their minds no matter what …but still I wish that I could convince them to see what I and many others here see…

        • When a person is in a ‘fugue state’ (lay persons call it a fog) their ability to remember events is seriously parsed. They might have memories, but these would be fleeting. Think of her state of mind as being like a piece of Swiss cheese. There are lots of empty holes right? She would try to fill the gaps in her memory by imagining what ‘might have happened’. This is why so many people think she is a liar. BUT, this is actually called confabulation. The real clue to it is that whilst they have some fleeting memories/images/feelings etc they are out of order. So, they will have these fleeting memories, but in no particular order. Of course, this is very confusing to people who do NOT understand PTSD and associated memory loss. It’s easier to hate her and condemn her to death than to resolve their uneducated inner conflict.

    • Samuels said that just because Jodi didn’t form long term memories about what happened because of all the adrenaline, etc, didn’t mean she wasn’t aware of what happened during that time period, within that time period. So she could think and act in an extreme fight or flight way and be sort of following a plan afterwards, trying to protect herself & get away from the scene. But that doesn’t imply that she stored any memories afterward. The person can still act in response to the stimuli of the short term situation, but doesn’t remember much of it later.

  10. Since we have no trial and I have a receptive site thought I’d just blog a bit about the case.

    I’m a latecomer to this case. I only heard about it when Jodi was on the stand. Plain curiosity got me looking around on the web, and every site I found said she was guilty. That just runs counter to my normal instincts. Being an old Hippie, Deadhead I have a healthy mistrust of “the man”. Plus I come from the great state of Maryland where in the last five months we have legalized gay marriage, repealed the death penalty, decriminalized pot and made domestic violence a mandatory state pressed charge (i.e. the state must press charges for DV cases, regardless of whether or not the victim presses charges) – and I whole heartedly support all of the above. So I said to myself, there has to be another side to this story and I found this site. And now I do see the other side.

    After I found this site I went through and listened to all of the prior testimony and found, not surprisingly, that there is a lot more to this story than what the main stream media seems to be putting out there. The more I dug into this case, the more I found that I could come up with plausible scenarios that when coupled with the testimony produced in court, all lead to a conclusion other than the two capital murder charges the state has brought forth. As I got to talking to friends and family I realized that if you took the time to present this case to someone who was not familiar with it, and presented just the facts to the end of Jodi’s testimony you got all sorts of responses back from the audience, and not a single one of them was M1 or this baloney felony murder crap.

    There was my son’s response of “they sacrificed TAs butt to Joseph Smith” to one that I heard yesterday from a friend. His possible scenario is as follows:

    The fight starts as Jodi described, but one or more of the roommates are in the house. The gun goes off. That report is unmistakable and someone comes running to investigate. They come in and TAs madder than a wet hen and starts attacking this person or people. Someone grabs the knife, that was either in the bedroom or bathroom and voila, you have the end result. Jodi meantime is out like a light, from having been plastered by the linebacker rush. This other person hustles her out of the house and either drops her off in the desert or tells her to get the hell out of there when she comes too. The camera ends up in the wash by accident. Most people are probably unaware of the fact that deleted files can be easily recovered. If it hadn’t been for the latent palm print and the DNA she would have been scot free. So there you go another story, quite plausible, generated from the same set of facts.

    So what do I believe? What I know about the sort of abuse TA levied on Jodi wouldn’t fill a thimble. But as Justice Stewart famously said about pornography, “I know it when I see it” , which in the case of TA’s behavior applies doubly – abusive pornography. I believe he pounded this young lady, physically, verbally and sexually into a state of absolute despair. I also believe she knew it but for some reason didn’t or couldn’t stop it. Probably the same reason that keeps multitudes of abuse victim’s from leaving the abusers. I believe he pushed her to the absolute limit. Even the events of that day are just abhorrent to any respectable human being. You have to remember he raped her because he couldn’t get the pictures off a CD. He tied her up, he regaled her with tales of his upcoming trip to Mexico with some other woman – which was an implicit statement of her worthlessness i his mind. He photographed her in obscene ways, he got her to photograph him so he could show his new body off to others and then he attacked her physically when she dropped a camera. Which one of us wouldn’t have snapped under that sort of abuse. This guy had repeatedly let her know of his evaluation of her as a person. When you treat someone as somewhat less than a human being two things happen – leveling violence against that person becomes easier and it becomes easier for the other person to believe that you will in fact do them irreparable harm. History is full of examples of this type of situation, whether it was our fore bearers treating African Americans as chattel, or the Nazis portraying Jews as subhuman, or the English portrayal of the Irish, or a gazillion other instances. So at some stage Jodi in fact feared that there was no limit to the punishment TA would deliver on her. I can see that, and I can see the reaction. In another time and another place some may have argued that TA “needed killing”.

    So I believe her, in her entirety. I have no reason not to, and a whole heap of reasons to.

    And then comes this prosecutor with his capital murder case. This is so flimsy that the people of the fine state of Arizona should charge him with malpractice. Remember he is their attorney. If I had an attorney who proceeded down a path with the evidence this guy has I would seriously look at filing malpractice charges against him. He had an open and shut offer of 2nd degree murder. He should have taken it. Instead he has dragged this thing on for years, subjected a woman who was already traumatized to the travesties of this trial, dragged two families through God alone knows how much grief and used up a bunch of the states resources for a masturbatory ego stroke. And to what end – to try and put to death a woman who was ravaged by the worst kind of predator there is. There is no deterrent value to this trial. There is no rehabilitative value to the DP. This is just revenge. It is humanity at its worst and it just perpetuates a cycle of violence.

    So I hope with all my heart that Jodi gets off. Not just because she deserves it, which I feel she does, but also so that prosecutors will stop bringing such cases to trial.

    • Agreed Al. I posted yesterday about DV cases in my small city, and my own summation of the case. I do believe that there are enough questions unanswered to suspect there is far more to this story. However, whatever actually happened, I believe Jodi was there and did in fact win the battle of her life against the abuser. Time to free Jodi!

    • I agree this case has more holes than swiss cheese and more turns than a corn maze,’but I don’t agree that we should not bring cases like this to trial. I think it would be a very slippery slope that would allow a lot of guilty people to escape prosecution. Our justice system is far from perfect and we’ve all heard of people who are wrongly convicted , but it’s all we’ve got.

      My husband best friends..brother was murdered – The man swore he was wrongly accused & the case seemed very circumstantial/ and strange. But he was convicted. He later wrote a letter to the family admitting his guilt and apologizing .

      • kw,

        My point really was that this should not have been brought as a DP case. He had a plea offer for second degree. If the DA felt that he could make a case for M1 then go ahead and do so. I just don’t think he should have made it a DP case. But then I’ll be the first to agree that I disagree with the DP with every fiber of my being and so maybe I’m not the best judge of that, particularly in regrads to a socila construct that accepts the DP.

        • I am not apposed to the DP, but I don’t really think this is a DP case either.
          Then again,… I live in AZ and they really like big /tough charges on all crimes here. The bigger the harsher the longer the better .. type of mantality

        • I am adamantly against DP also. For all and every con reason that can be brought up. Makes me a little sick to think to not have it against someone like Manson or BTK (did he get DP?), but still that’s where I stand. Imagine comparing Jodi to these guys? She is charged with ultimate sentence so I guess that is what Maricopa Cty is implying. Geez what a crazy society we live in that people think she is evil, when there is so much evidence in her defense & there is so many worse things out there.

    • Al…. I too started watching when JA took the stand. I thought this chick is a coconut!!! Then a ran across this site and I thought….these folks are coconuts too!!!! But I started to read the information on this site and I was like damn!!!! Something is not right here and this case has been over charged. As I listened and watched the trial on line at work….the more I was certain something was up. I was having a problem with the 29 or 27 stab wounds…whatever the count…. and the ear to ear stashing. Then moving the body back to the shower. The camera in the washer…..JA would have known to remove the memory chip. Just didn’t add up for me. I’m thankful for the site to show the other side of the the JA story:>)

    • Beautiful post, Al, I totally agree. I believe Jodi, and all the evidence adds up that she is telling the truth. I don’t understand why people aren’t thinking of the long term consequences of what is happening here, both in the courtroom and in the hate-soaked media. This trial does a serious disservice to our culture, and encourages people to regress into reactionary violence and prejudice. There is nothing to be gained for putting Jodi to death, and nothing to be gained by putting her away in prison for the rest of her life either. And right you are that this case should be lost, because it never needed to be tried in the first place. JM has decided to waste $1,000,000.00 taxpayer dollars trying a case that is ultimately unwinnable. Even IF he gets a conviction the first time around the chances are high that it will be appealed anyway, especially after all the courtroom antics and the media’s involvement. There is just no justifying the flagrant bad behavior and misappropriation of taxpayer time and dollars in a court case that will ultimately have a wide sweeping negative affect on the rights of domestic violence victims and their families.

    • Excellent post. I also have come to the belief that she should be acquitted. Everything in her testimony rang true with me, and all of the evidence fits in with her narrative.

      Now whether she WILL be acquitted thanks to the media lynch mob and the lack of jury sequestration remains to be seen.

  11. I don’t think this is a good direction to go in.

    Jodi’s case is very strong. There is no reason to suppose that anyone else was present when Alexander was killed. Since we know that he threatened her life, it’s obvious that he then attacked her, and equally obvious that (possibly due to the gun shot wound he had) she prevailed in the fight and killed him.

    We also know that once a very high stress level is reached ( as evidenced by the amnesia ) we react entirely out of instinct, and the ,most gentle person can inflict unlimited savagery, which is not under their control.

    Morally I believe this makes Jodi entirely innocent. The law in this area is not completely clear to me, but if Jodi is held to be guilty of anything, the law is an ass.

    • Yes, and looking at it this way ( I keep all scenarios possible, mind you,) the so-called throat slashing can be viewed as part of the life and death fight. After she stabbed him in the heart, he might have fallen back, grabbed her legs, she falls, and stabs him one more time, just happened to hit his throat.

        • geebee2,

          read your wiki. Actually I think you may have nailed it. I’ve been meaning to go back and listen to the blood spatter evidence once again. I think that evdience actually supports your hypothesis.

          I really don’t think that gun theft is that much of an issue. Here’s why. Firstly the Yreka police guy acknowledged that they had a rash of burglaries back then. Secondly, I think that it can be argued that if she truly wanted to use that gun she would never have staged a burglary in such a blatant mannner, where evryone knew the gun was missing. Why not jus take it and throw it away and maybe no one will know any better. Thirdly, I think we need to get to the bottom of what type of bullet was recovered from TA. Her grand parents were sure the gun was loaded with hollow points. If this bulet is not a hollow point (and from a cursory scan of the testimony nothing shows it was) then where did she get the ammo from? The one thing you can’t buy from a gun dealer without leaving a trace is handgun ammo. She could have got it from a gun show or some friend, but there is no evidence to that effect and the DA can’t speculate. And lastly if this was premeditated and her weapon of choice was the gun she could have done this a lot before it really happpenend.

          • I do have to say that every time I read that it was filled with hollowpoints… I wonder why they would have those in a pistol? I mean do you use hollowpoints for target practice? That sounds a bit like er,…”overkill”.
            Can someone put any light on that?

            Either way, unless that gun shows up…we can speculate and will speculate until the cows come home.

            • Shan72

              The only purpose of hollow points is to cause maximum damage. I guess some nut would argue that he wanted to maximum damage to the target, but we’ll leave that argument to Wayne LaPierre.

              Hollow points have only one purpose.

              • Thats what I thought. Odd thing then to have put in a small handgun used to shoot targets. But I agree, there are enough mysteryies with this.

                • Actually Shan72 the 25 ACP is anything but a target gun. It is essentially designed to be a sort of close range protection piece. I believe the thought really is that if you pull it out and point at someone that should be deterrent enough. If not you shoot them and the sting should be deterrent enough. If not, you’re probably toast. The thing was originally called a Vest Pocket Pistol. It is also called a ladies gun because its small size made it easy to carry in a pocket book or clutch. We also often call it a mouse gun.

                  I believe someone would load a hollow point in this little popgun just so they could deliver a little more oomph, if they did in fact have to use it.

            • Remember, the gun originally belonged to grandpa’s cousin. Regardless, we don’t know what the gun was used for, if for target practice at all. Could have been used to shoot gophers.

    • I agree that memory lapses are possible – even probable. also It is not uncommon for someone who has endured years of abuse to (for lack of a better term in this situation) ‘go overboard’ in a self defense situation.

      However , The law does get very confusing.. the law does not provide protection under self defense once the need to defend ones-self has ended. for instance (theory only) , he was coming after her, she shot he continued to come after her , so she grabbed a knife and started swing and stabbing. At the point where he falls to ground and does not attempt to get up .. there is legally no longer a need to defend. Jury’s often find that the person still felt the person would still be able to hurt them , but there have also been many cases where a jury find it was self defense but they did also stab/shoot etc when there was no threat. (ie he was dead or injured to the point he could not move etc) .

      it will be very interesting to see what the jury decide on this case.

      • I don’t think it can be proved that Jodi had an opportunity to safely escape or discontinue her attack once Alexander attacked her.

        The three knife wounds to his chest would not kill him immediately, only the major wound to his neck would do that. I believe she was most probably behind him, clinging to his back, when she cut his throat ( I cannot see how the required leverage could be obtained otherwise ).

        It is surely the intent that counts, and she most probably perceived that he was a threat to her until the fight ended when his throat was deeply cut.

      • kw,
        Agreed about the limit on the self defense issue. That is why that darned throat slitting has always been a thorn in my side. That wound is most likely viewed as a dispatch stroke. I know some have posited that it could have happened during a fight, but it looks so damn deliberate. So for a self-defense case, and I know th AZ law is that way, that wound must have been caused because she felt her life was still threatened. For man slaughter or 2nd degree murder that wound should not have been caused with an intention to kill. See the problem?

        Now the good thing, from Jodi’s side is that once the self-defense claim has been made the DA must show beyond a reasonable doubt that she did not in fact fear for her life. That this was in fact beyond the stage where she had any reason to fear for her life. Unlike the situation in other states where the defendant must prove self defense, in AZ once the claim is made the DA must prove the absence of a case of self defense. So that is good.

        Also in the case of 2nd degree murder or manslaughter the DA must show that there was no case for second degree murder and that this was premeditated all the way. In the case of a tie the jury has to take the lesser option. JM has tried to take this premeditation all the way back to when she left Yreka. I think the reason he’s done that is because that way he does not acknowledge that there was a fight, or abuse or any such thing, and this was not a case of what started as self defense turning to premeditated murder in an instant.

        I don’t believe he has made the case for a long term premeditation in this case. His evidence is too circumstantial and too open to other plausible explanations. However, AZ does not have the two-inference rule with respect to circumstantial evidence so he has a bit of an upper hand there. BTW the two-inference rule of circumstantial evidence says that if there are two or more plausible explanations for a piece of circumstantial evidence and one of them points to innocence then the jury MUST use that explanation. Many states do in fact have the two-inference ruls, including AZ’s neighbor CA. The two-inference rule would have blown JM’s case out of the water before it even started.

        So let’s see what happens.

        • I dont get the premeditation at all . If she had the intention to kill him, why would she have had sex with him .. (I assume) multiple times and have this intimate exchange of photo’s etc for hours before. ??? Why would she not just go there and when he falls sleep…… ( I can even buy she may have had to have sex one time to explain her being there or wait till he was asleep .. but not hours and hours of intimate interaction.

          • Correct. This is one aspect that first led me to question the prosecution case. I found I just could not understand it. Didn’t mean it was wrong, but it made no sense.

            It seems few people have the ability to look deeper in the face of apparently strong circumstantial evidence ( the gun theft ). It’s a matter of being aware of evidence, but then looking to see if it fits together. If it doesn’t, something is wrong.

            Here I am early on puzzling over things that don’t add up:

            http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=78862#p78862

            ( I’m afraid I did make some remarks at this time that I now very much regret such as “I really do not like Jodi Arias”, I hope people will forgive me for that. I have long relented. )

            • So I went over and looked at that page. I’m assuming you guys are somewhere in the Commonwealth – the defence, petrol, hire car, etc give that away.

              Glad to see you changed your mind. Never too late to leave the dark side of the force Anikan.

              Self defense laws are extremely nuanced across the states. Was a time, when they were pretty uniform and taken from English Common Law. You had an obligation to attempt to flee and the level of force that you could apply had to be commesurate with the threat, and you had to stop once the threat vanished, and the burden of proof was on the person claiming self defense.

              Over the years these laws have undergone substantial modifications in the various states. For instance, Florida now has a stand your ground statute. So there is no obligation to flee. Arizona places the burden of proof on the state. Once you claim self defense, and have a reasonable profer substantiating the same the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there was in fact no circumstance that would lead a reasonable person to believe that they were at risk. Here’s what the relevant statute says:

              “a person is justified in threatening or using physical force against another when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other’s use or attempted use of unlawful physical force.”

              Often times the statutes are further clarified in the jury instructions. Here’s what AZ’s self defense jury instruction says:

              The use of physical force is justified if a reasonable person in the situation would have
              reasonably believed that immediate physical danger appeared to be present. Actual danger is not necessary to justify the use of physical force in self-defense.

              You must decide whether a reasonable person in a similar situation would believe that:
              physical force was immediately necessary to protect against another’s [use] [attempted use]
              [threatened use] [apparent attempted use] [apparent threatened use] of unlawful physical force; or

              You must measure the defendant’s belief against what a reasonable person in the
              situation would have believed.

              The State has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act with such justification. If the State fails to carry this burden, then you must find the defendant not guilty of the charge.

              The AZ law does limit the amount of force that can be used but again it has a reasonable person’s objectivity level

              ” The defendant used or threatened no more physical force than would have
              appeared necessary to a reasonable person in the situation.
              A defendant may use deadly physical force in self-defense only to protect against
              another’s use or apparent attempted or threatened use of deadly physical force.

              Self-defense justifies the use or threat of physical force or deadly physical force only
              while the apparent danger continues, and it ends when the apparent danger ends. The force used may not be greater than reasonably necessary to defend against the apparent danger.

              So in a heated situation where a person kept coming after you, the use of deadly force with finality may be reasonable.

              Arizona also goes one step further in its assessment of the threat or danger, namely

              “If there have been past acts of domestic violence as defined in A.R.S. § 13-3601,
              subsection A, against the defendant by the victim, the state of mind of a reasonable person shall be determined from the perspective of a reasonable person who has been a victim of those past acts of domestic violence. A.R.S. § 13-415.”

              These laws are the result of many years of fine tuning and rehashing, with multiple appeals from various appellate levels, up to and including all state and federal appeals courts.

              Given the totality of the situation I think the defense has been extremely slick with this self defense claim and the case they have and are presenting. I think a lot of the screaming and yelling from JM is because he knows his case is in more trouble than his fan base would believe.

              • This site ( http://www.injustice-anywhere.org/ ) is an off-shoot of a site originally set up to support Amanda Knox. Tomorrow her acquittal should be confirmed by the Italian supreme court.

                The site has a mixture of US, English and Italian supporters.

                It now has discussion on many other cases, for example Debra Milke, David Camm, Nyki KIsh, Kirstin Blaise Lobato and many others.

                Once Jodi is acquitted, I hope her supporters may take an interest in other cases of injustice.

          • I would assume that if he finally did stop getting up, and the need for self-defense ended, this would turn into manslaughter, not premeditated murder.

            Especially because, once she got to that point, she was likely extremely terrified, that she couldn’t stop.

          • One point kw.

            Let’s assume the scenario is as follows. We have evrything going as Jodi claims. Then she gets the knife and stabs him, etc. Now he’s on all fours and she says “Oh heck lets kill the SOB”. Technically that is premeditated murder. How the DA proves that is beyond my understanding but still technically that’s M1.

            Also, lets say they get into a fight and start whaling away at each other. No self defense here and then at some stage she syas “I’m going to kill him.” That’s now again M1. Again the DA needs to prove it but theoretically its M1.

            In this case those type of split second decisions are hard to prove (which is not always the case). And that is why JM is trying to stretch that premeditated nonsense all the way back to Yreka.

            • Can’t argue it without putting the evidence on the record. The roommates recollection of dates and times seem to be so ditzy, the DA would never risk putting them on. Flores can’t testify to the roommates because that would be hearsay.

        • Ok, I’ll keep throwing this out until someone responds…suppose the throat slit was to end his suffering after the deadly fight?

    • “I don’t think this is a good direction to go in.”

      True.

      However, I am looking at Ashley as something separate at this point. It would be a shame if someone killed her and it was mistakenly called a suicide.

      • I have to hope her family will not mind all this discussion about her death. If it was a suicide, our endless speculation could cause them unnecessary pain should they stumble across this site.

        I would hope that at the time, her family were satisfied with the finding of suicide, and that they knew what she was going through. We have no where near the information needed to make any other assumptions. There really could have been a note, and a history and other things going on.

        There also could have been reasons she made the call that have nothing to do with Travis. It’s all rumor and innuendo and so little in the way of facts.

        Same holds true for her ex husband. I have seen people do some pretty awful stuff including calls to police during contentious divorces.

        just mho

  12. TA ‘s friend Dave Hall, the gun owner, the friend that can’t walk and chew gum at the same time, the friend that submitted video of TA shooting guns in the desert. He was interviewed on HLN about Travis being a gun owner and he denied it….. He stated that he was with TA 1 week before the killing and spent 7 days with him so he was certain that Travis didn’t own a gun. Or ……he stated that he was with Travis 7 days before the killing and spent a week with TA…… something to this effect nonetheless this time frame would have put him in TA ‘s house on or about June 3, (I ‘m being generous since he’s no smarter than a box of rocks, he is a walking Brainstorm) or June 4, 2008, according to his own words. Why did he not conlme forward and give Detective Flores a statement What if Brainstorm inadvertently left the pistol at TA ‘s house during his week sojourn. The video on HLNs website of the interview with Brainstorm is still available but not in it’s entirety…maybe they noticed the time discrepency and omitted the portion?

    • JA said that she has seen TA’s guns in the past when she cleaned his house. If the gun was left just the week prior JA would not have had the knowledge the gun was in the closet during the attack.

      Mr. Hall is probably just got the timeline confused.

      • IMO, no guy is going to bring a .25 to a place where people are firing assault rifles. It’s a little self-defense gun. I don’t think it is any ‘fun’ in that scenario. Anyway, Jodi said he didn’t want anyone to know he had it.

    • Phillip-
      I have stated all along that the gun actually belonged to the box of rocks, Dave Hall. Jodi testified that Travis having the gun was a secret. JM objected and we got no futher information. I still think that DH gave TA the gun and told him not to say where he got it. Dave Hall doth protest too much. I think his talking to the idiots at HLN make him even more suspicious. His protest is a lame red hering.

      • His protest, and his weird behavior and “seeming” hero worship for Travis all take away from what is a suspicious person to be sure.

  13. I would like to know the religion of the key people from lawyers, witnesses, jurors, and police. We have to rule out the Mormon angle that keeps coming up in the press.

  14. Does anyone know the answer to this?

    Ashley’s autopsy report states scalp hair is 2 inches long, brown and straight…

    On her photos her hair looks to be shoulder length…

    Sean’s autopsy report states scalp hair estimated 1/4 ” long, black and straight…

    Does the medical examiner cut the person’s hair short for their examinations?

    • what do you mean, Sean’s autopsy report?

      The medical examiner would never cut the hair, I wouldn’t think.

      • Hi Renee’…

        At the top of this thread where SJ posted …click on the highlighted blue word “click” in the following sentence….
        In addition, click here to read a 3/13/2013 report in relation to Dr Robert Lyon, and his dubious suicide ruling in relation to the death of police Sgt. Sean Drenth. The report is entitled: “New Phoenix police documents show suicide ruling in Sgt. Sean Drenth’s death may not be correct.”

        It will take you to this page
        http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/local_news/investigations/new-phoenix-police-documents-show-suicide-ruling-in-sgt-sean-drenths-may-not-be-correct#ixzz2OVdPj9yI

        Then click on the words that are underlined…. “ruled the case a suicide” in the following sentence…
        …a Maricopa County forensic pathologist, officially ruled the case a suicide .
        Lucien C. Haag, a criminalist in Carefree completed his report in June 2011.

        It then takes you to this autopsy report of police Sgt. Sean Drenth…

        http://media2.abc15.com/html/pdf/autopsyreport.pdf

        Click below for Ashley Reed’s autopsy report…or you can click on the link also at the top of this thread where SJ has it posted…

        http://jodiariasisinnocent.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Ashley-Reed-autopsy-report-3-5-2010-Jodi-Arias-Is-Innocent-com.pdf

        What I found odd was that Ashley’s scalp hair is 2 inches long….that is very short for a female…I don’t find too many females that really like to go that short on top…2 inches is usually for spiking the top of the hair for a female….barely enough to put on the tiniest curling rod…on her photo her hair looked to be about shoulder length…

        Sean’s scalp hair is 1/4″ long…and that is usually a short buzz cut that is slightly grown out…

        • actually, a lot of women wear their hair short here in AZ. How current is the picture in relation to the suicide.

          And yes, coroners/medical examiners have been know to cut hair to examine injuries, but I would think that they only do this when they have to, and would not record that cut hair length as being a description of the victim.

  15. Jeff I hope you don’t I bring your comment over here…

    jeff in mesa says:
    March 23, 2013 at 6:37 pm

    JC,
    That’s true about overturned convictions here in Mesa. It’s partly because of sloppy, lazy police work (in my humble opinion, of course). But it’s not just the City of Mesa, it’s the entire County of Maricopa. Here’s an example of a high profile case in Ahwatukee (which is a little west of Mesa) that was f@*$ed up because of juror misconduct & the ME’s testimony.

    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/20120127attorney-alleges-juror-misconduct-murder-case.html

    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/03/jeffrey_martinson_wins_new_tri.php

    Thanks for the info Jeff!

    • “But several jurors said they were swayed by forewoman Kathy’s inaccurate insistence that Martinson had to prove he hadn’t committed the crimes against his son.

      Kathy’s own testimony confirmed her point of view, the exact opposite of what Judge Duncan had instructed.

      “I said to the jury that it was the defense’s job to give us other things to think about,” she testified on January 25.”

      Forewoman Kathy was an employee of Arizona Supreme court. wow. They should not have allowed her to be a juror.

      • The article also didn’t do a great job of preventing the jury forewoman’s name from being found. Kathleen Curl whose husband was DEA agent Shaun Curl killed in 1997.

  16. On March 5, 2013, on one of the Facebook sites, someone wrote that Jodi could prove she never took her grandfather’s gun by telling the police where she threw the gun in the desert on the early morning of June 5, 2008 (i.e., the gun she used to shoot AT Travis) . Apparently, she remembers getting rid of the gun and bloody clothes, etc., before she went though a checkpoint or something.

    However, even if she could (and would) tell the police where the gun was (if she knows), could police definitely prove the gun belonged to her grandfather? The grandfather said he didn’t know the serial number or the brand of the gun. He never registered it. Would the grandfather be able to identify positively it just by looking at it – and would he anyway if it was damaging to Jodi? I doubt it.

    I tried to find out when the grandfather’s cousin, Norman Blowers, died and how long after Norman’s death before Jodi’s grandfather received Norman’s gun but haven’t been able to find that information as yet. Does anyone know when Norman died? I mean, he might have died many years ago (1950s or 1960s) and there may not be any documentation of any kind on the gun that police could find to prove it was the grandfather’s gun.

    Someone else on this site (sorry, I can’t remember who) mentioned that if the grandfather used the gun for target practice, it might be possible to find some fired bullets in the area of the target practice and match them with the bullet taken from Travis’s cheek. I think that has happened in an actual case.

    • Good points, cold case. Also, there is the shell casing that landed on the small pool of blood after being kicked around during the struggle. Wouldn’t they be able to match up the patterns on the spent shell casings from both the crime scene and the target practice area to see if they match? If the prosecution already explored that possibility, then they are not openly advertising any findings that disprove the theory that Jodi stole her grandfather’s gun.

      One more thing – didn’t they find fingerprints in the grandfathers house after the burglary that shows whoever broke in was someone else entirely? Plus I don’t know what kind of cell phone coverage Jodi had at the time, but from the maps that I have seen the coverage gets spotty around Yreka and the surrounding area. This supports her assertion that she was in an out of the way place with no cell phone coverage.

      • MB,if I remember correctly there were fingerprints on the dust of the tv set but not ‘good’ enough(really latent?if that’s the term) for forensic examination.

        • There has been no proof that it hasn’t been kicked around. Shell casings are very bouncy on tile and concrete. Go to a shooting range and you will see.

          • Okay? She/he didn’t say it MIGHT have been kicked around…

            “Also, there is the shell casing that landed on the small pool of blood after being kicked around during the struggle”

            There is a difference…

            • For those of us who believe jodi we know this to be true because she shot him first. And it is entirely possible for it to happen.

              Those that choose not to believe Jodi refuse to believe it can be kicked around and bounce into the blood, mostly by people who have not had firearm experience.

              there was no hard scientific data for either version of shell introduced into the trial.

              • So everyone here has firearm experience? Where is the correlation between kicking a casing and shooting a gun?

                I believe Jodi and I think that the bullet did get kicked, but his/her claiming of it as a fact isn’t correct because it’s something we just don’t know.

                • No edit feature, but what I meant was what does having knowledge about shooting a gun have to do with this specific case regarding the casing?

              • Thank you BeeCee.

                Yes, I believe Jodi’s version of events. If other people choose not to believe, that is their business. But this is a support site for Jodi and if there is any place on the Internet I should feel free to express my belief that Jodi is speaking the truth, it should be here.

                JC – TEAM JODI ADMIN has already said that posters should now concentrate on supporting Jodi rather than attacking other members. I am forwarding a link to this thread so they are aware of what is going on.

                • Thank you MB.

                  I try to be nice at first in case people want a real answer, but then when they keep picking things apart just to be argumentative, it’s just not worth it. Some of these people I have seen on Twitter posting terrible things about jodi, like that “itsjustme” person from a while ago…

  17. I think we all concede that whatever is found out at this point by all of us sleuths will not likely affect the trial. Although, remember the criminal record? We should learn from that because it brought out a lot of other important revelations. About the family, about Shannon Hogan, about Legal Shield.

    Neo, I think you are seeing the bigger picture. Something is going on in TravisLand.

    Let’s all believe for a moment in the St. Travis idea…..he was a charismatic leader….who people listened to and seemed to follow….and apparently buy PPL from. Mormons and mult-level marketing go hand in hand. It’s a way to have a lucrative livelihood, underneath the radar that most of us mere mortals live under. Travis had a large house, room for several roommates and with privacy to keep hidden any activities he needed to keep secret. I heard Jodi say he did owe some money, about $6,000 to someone, someone who “wouldn’t miss it”. These are just a few random facts to play around with.

    Entertain these thoughts, if you will. Travis was part of a more sinister subset of the church. It’s fairly common knowledge that some of the more extreme sects of many religion exist. Travis was being groomed for higher roles within this subset. The women on the HLN shows show are extremely odd, clingy to their “man”, subservient, and absolutely terrified of Jodi. And not so bright and shallow, too, as I see it. Perfect for the “multiple wives” scenario.

    But Travis had let the cat out of the bag, so to speak. Jodi knew about the pedophilia. She may have even told an official in the church. Travis was a threat to the secrecy, the shroud of pureness, because of this, and an increasingly wilder streak for women. He was not fitting the typical milder mannered Mormons we all are used to seeing. There was too much to lose if things got out.

    Ashley was killed because she knew too much. Not necessarily by Dustin. But perhaps by the same duo that killed Travis. Jodi got the message. The message of what would happen if she tried to implicate anyone else. So she is now doing the only thing she can do to get out of jail. Nurmi and even Martinez may know the whole story. But now they can do only what they are doing. I see no way a jury could come back with a guilty verdict on any count, based on so many reasonable doubts.

    We are not wrong to keep going beyond the trial, to gather more information, and theories. We are here for a reason. Think outside the box and beyond.

    • Hi, I agree it’s important to keep thinking outside the box. IMO the haters could use a lesson or two about thinking for themselves.

      I think at the very least, this weird little clique has a streak of bad luck, like WonderingWhy said. At the most, there is something a lot more sinister going on than I can figure out here behind my computer screen alone.

      All I can do at this point, is stay tuned to see what developments arise and contribute my own findings when I can. My own theory is that Travis invited Jodi over to harm her. It’s no accident that he guilted her into visiting him at the point in time in their relationship when she was moving on and was getting back to her old self. He was interested in a woman that did not want him, and it is also no accident that his violence against Jodi escalated around the time he developed feelings for Mimi Hall.

      I have no doubt that Ashley, and the roommates, quite possibly many others knew what happened long before Travis’ body was officially discovered. I find it odd that considering the nature of Travis’ death, that investigators did not probe into phone and text records of all of Travis’ immediate associates to put together a picture of what activity was going on in the handful of days after his death until his discovery.

      Thank you to whoever found Ashley’s records and allowed SJ to post them. It is sad but I do think her death is relevant, if not directly to Jodi’s case, but at the very least shows that there is something very wrong with the group psychology of the people in Travis’ life.

      • MB – Team Jodi says:

        March 24, 2013 at 5:22 pm

        I have no doubt that Ashley, and the roommates, quite possibly many others knew what happened long before Travis’ body was officially discovered. I find it odd that considering the nature of Travis’ death, that investigators did not probe into phone and text records of all of Travis’ immediate associates to put together a picture of what activity was going on in the handful of days after his death until his discovery.

        I so agree, MB!

        • Okay heres my thoughts:

          1) If TA was such a known important fella then why wasnt his body found sooner?

          2) I see and hear more than one person that could be involved in this and I start to wonder if Jodi even knows the truth

          3) I am curious about the throat slash, the camera in the washing machine, the knife in the dishwasher, the handprint on the wall. All of these things when you step back and take an unbiased look at the whole thing, none of this seems to fit to Jodi being a murderer. I can only see her killing TA if she had NO OTHER CHOICE.

          4) It is so clear that there was true feelings in this situation and I find it really pathetic that the Hughes dont want to own up to their emails.

          5) Why can’t an expert nail it down to what injuries happened in order? I mean it seems with everything in technology today that that wouldnt be so hard.

          6) Who says Jodi wasn’t drugged and woke up in finding TA dead and thinking she did it and trying to cover it up and run? Im just saying the throat slash seems more group criminals related.

          7) I think those who found him should have been more interrogated.

          8)

      • Great posts MB and Onechance!

        I could’t agree more MB about the timing of all of this, and Travis planning to harm Jodi. TA knew that Jodi was moving on and going to see Ryan. All the PPL people are so intertwined that he had to have been told. This coupled with the fact that Mimi had rejected his romantic advances, threw him into a rage. I fully believe although Jodi didn’t fit his and his cronies vision of a good Mormon wife for Travis, he was determined that no other PPL man would have her. I believe he “guilted” her into coming to see him, as Jodi testified, because he was going to beat her into submission and keep her from seeing Ryan.

      • Totally agree. Such a sloppy investigation.
        So many people may have wanted him dead.
        And his reasons to want her there, not just hers, were never probed into either.

  18. This may have been mentioned before, and I apologize if it has, but my understanding is that when women commit suicide they usually do it in non-violent ways such as an overdose? I don’t know how Ashley’s death correlates to Travis’, but I do find a reason to ponder the whole thing, what with her calling the police and such after he died. I just don’t know.

    • Yes, and I think that is why so many people are disquieted by Ashley’s suicide. I think people know instinctually that there is something unsual about her manner of death being a self inflicted gunshot wound.

      From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_suicide

      “Although females attempt suicide at a higher rate, they are more likely to use methods that are less immediately lethal. Males frequently complete suicide via high mortality actions such as hanging, carbon-monoxide poisoning, and gun violence. This is in contrast to females, who tend to rely on drug overdosing.”

      Schrijvers, Didier. “The gender paradox in suicidal behavior and its impact on the suicidal process”. Journal of Affective Disorders 138 (2): 19–26.

      • Do we know WHERE it happened? I would think a female would commit suicide in a place where she felt safe, not out in public somewhere. I don’t know if there have been studies on that at all. It’s just my hunch. I’d be interested to know where it happened.

          • MB…I cant find it either where it happened…

            At the top of this thread that SJ posted ….Ashley said the last time she actually saw Travis or talked with him was at his last UFC (Ultimate Fighting Champion) party about three weeks ago.

            Ashley said Travis would have UFC parties about every Wednesday where they would watch the fights.

            Calculate…Ashley saw Travis about three weeks before Wednesday, June 4, 2008…
            So if Travis usually has these UFC fighting parties at his house most Wednesdays…then you would think that whoever normally shows up for them would have showed up or called to confirm if he was having one on that Wednesday June 4, 2008…

  19. Well with 8-10 inches of snow coming down, it looks like I will be off work tomorrow. I can finally watch the trial and not worry

  20. SJ, thank you for pulling all this information together about Ashley. This info will never make it’s way into the courtroom and it would have no reason to, but nevertheless, to me, it’s very much a part of the story. Again and again, I’m surprised at how much violence there was in Travis Alexander’s life. It’s remarkable really.

    He had a sad childhood, and his blog tells stories of his parents being extremely violent.

    A few weeks ago there was a new video released of Travis telling the story that he’d been robbed at gunpoint.

    I don’t believe for one second that Jodi sent the threatening e-mail to Travis’ ex-girlfriend Lisa. I don’t believe she was the one who slashed Lisa’s and Travis’ tires. And I don’t think Detective Flores believes it either. I think Lisa had a stalker of her own, her own ex-boyfriend who did these things. So that would make Travis a victim of a violent crime by yet another assailant only months before June 4.

    When Det. Flores asked if Travis had someone in his life that would have meant him harm, both Lisa AND Jodi pointed to an ex-roommate of his who had moved out in December ’07 without telling Travis. There was bad blood between the two. I believe this was the roommate that warned both Lisa and Jodi that Travis was a player. That he was lying to them.

    Now we can add Dustin to the list. I don’t think he ever did any harm at all to Travis, but I believe Ashley was picking up on signals that he may have WISHED harm to Travis. It’s looking like Dustin was a dangerous character.

    So I just think it’s interesting that Travis had all this in his life, not that it means he deserved to die or anything close to that, it’s just that the story of what happened isn’t complete without knowing what his life really was like. So thanks for pulling this information together. We certainly wouldn’t get news like this anywhere else.

    • Has there ever been any EVIDENCE that tires were actually slashed?

      If that really happened twice, both parties should have receipts for the replacement of a couple of sets of tires each.

      That’s about $500 per set each time that happened.

      • The explanation I heard, and I don’t remember where, is that the tire slashing took place on two separate, consecutive nights. First night Travis’ tires slashed. Second night Travis’ AND Lisa’s tires slashed. Lisa asked Travis to spend the night because she was afraid. The third night, she received the threatening e-mail which made mention of Travis being at her house all night.

        On one of the nights, the first or second, they called the police. It took the police over an hour to respond, and they had gone out already. They didn’t wait around. So there was no police report.

        The thing is, regarding the e-mail, when Travis was killed and Flores was investigating, Lisa told him about the tires and the e-mail. She still had the original e-mail, and Flores asked her to forward it to him. Can’t a police department trace the IP address of a sent e-mail? You can be sure that if that e-mail had come from Jodi, this would have been admitted into evidence and Martinez would be screaming his head off about it. But there hasn’t been one mention of it except for what one witness said. That was Mimi Hall. And EVERY single thing Mimi Hall said was gossip she had heard from friends of Travis. So there you go.

        • I’m not sure but I think all of the information in my post above comes right from the Flores police report.

          • I have wondered myself if they ever checked the IP address of that email. It seems to me that this info would be relevant and have bearing on the case. All this gossip about Jodi being a “stalker” was just that, GOSSIP! and to use this unsubstantiated slanderous “information” as part of a trial, to me, is ludicrous.

    • And Travis had another roommate…John Hepworth… who moved out suddenly one night without telling Travis about it…they didn’t see eye to eye on a lot of things…John lived with Travis from July or August of 2007 to December of the same year. (Flores report page 15 top paragraph)…

      I found this link…it might be the same John Hepworth…not sure…

      http://www.mylife.com/johnhepworth

    • Oh, I thought of another violent incident in Travis’ life. His brother being arrested for shoplifting and battery!

  21. I was wondering about the bullet taken from Travis’s cheek. Martinez seems very well prepared and hammers home each little detail. That’s why I wondered when he had the forensic firearms examiner (Elizabeth Northcutt) on the stand, why he didn’t get her to describe the bullet in more detail. I mean, he knew the gun stolen from Jodi’s grandfather had jacketed hollow-point bullets in it. Why didn’t he ask Northcutt if the bullet taken from Travis’s cheek was a jacketed hollow-point bullet (or ask it indirectly)? Wouldn’t she be able to tell? Not that it would be positive proof the gun was the grandfather’s, but it would be another little piece pointing in that direction for him. Yet he didn’t go for it. It’s not like him to pass over anything that could help his case and damage Jodi.

    BTW, does anyone know if Elizabeth Northcutt has issued a written report on the bullet (and gun)? All I can find is her Day 3 testimony.

      • Al, if it’s not a hollow-point bullet that was recovered from Travis’s cheek, I hope the defense can introduce that information somehow although it may be too late. I think if I was a juror and the defense said: “Well, the prosecutor (or police) indicated Jodi stole her grandfather’s handgun to shoot Travis but the grandfather’s gun was loaded with jacketed hollow-point bullets and the bullet that was recovered from Travis’s cheek was not a jacketed hollow-point bullet.

        Would the prosecution then countered with: “Well, she could have switched the bullets.” I think you mentioned, Al, that if Jodi bought other DIFFERENT bullets, that the police could likely uncover that information.

        If the bullet removed from Travis’s cheek is not a jacketed hollow-point then, in my mind at least, it’s very unlikely that Jodi stole her grandfather’s gun and it gives her story that Travis had his own gun so much more credibility. Just my humble opinion. I rest my case (Ha!)

        • Coldcase,

          I think the defense may still be able to bring this up. I’m not sure if the burglary report at Yreka has been entered into the record. Someone else may know. However, if it has been entered into the record, and we know the bullet taken from TA has been entered into the record the defense can bring it up in closing arguments,

          Even if the burglary report has not been entered into the record, they can always ask, why the prosecution didn’t bring up any sort of match. Finally they can take a page out of JM’s book and just go ahead and say it all the same. JM will object like a cat on fire. The judge will sustain the objection and will tell the jury to disregard, but it really doesn’t matter, the cat will be out of the bag.

          • Speaking of the burglary report, here it is again with a couple of other documents attached to it (see bottom of comment). Plus, you can enlarge this one as much as you want.

            One document is an attempt by the defense to withhold the information about the stolen .25 handgun from Jodi’s grandparents from being entered into the trial. It appears Martinez squashed that attempt (is he that powerful or was someone else involved?). It was only delivered to Judge Sherry K. Stephens and Kirk Nurmi on December 11, 2012 (3 weeks or so before trial).

            I noticed the burglary report was finally signed off by the Chief of Police, Brian Bowles, on the day Jodi was arrested it (July 15, 2008).

            In the report, Jodi’s hair color is marked as “Bro.” The problem with this report is that it’s got 2 dates on it. One on the day the burglary was reported (May 28, 2008) but the “last update” appears to be August 13, 2008. It’s difficult to determine exactly what information was collected at what point in time. For example, was Jodi’s hair color recorded on May 28, 2008 as brown (BEFORE) Tavis was killed or on August 13, 2008 AFTER he was killed.

            Also, the computer used for the burglary report, is odd in that some numbers that should be zero look more like 8 . Also the zeros look perfectly correct in other portions of the report. Even the Incident # on the burglary report is difficult to read.

            http://twitdoc.com/upload/zou2/ja-gun-issue.pdf

    • Coldcase,

      Because more specific questions about the bullet used would not serve to point to Jodi….at least circumstantially.

      Listening to Day 11 testimony by Lisa, an ex, describes exactly to me the profile of an emotionally abusive narcissistic. And I doubt anyone will say that she has been reading books and has fit the behavior to fit an abuser. So when all the haters next week start yapping about how Jodi has made up everything, let’s remind everyone of Lisa’s testimony. It is textbook.

      Yes, the autopsy report should get others talking.

      http://www.change.org/petitions/trial-by-media-is-wrong-stop-the-spin-headline-news-hln-nancy-grace-jane-velez-mitchell-jean-casarez-vinnie-politan-dr-drew

  22. More reason to suspect that there is much more to this case than the majority of people have been led to believe. It is also highly suspicious that his ex-wife “committed suicide”. There are a lot of unexplained murders in Mormon Land.

    Just thinking about the LeBarron Murders mentioned in the movie “The Godmakers” for a second because Travis’ death seems to match up so well with instances of Mormon Blood Atonement from the gruesome overkill of the death scene ( see those described in Jon Krakauer’s “Under the Banner of Heaven” ) to the specific wounds Travis received ( stabbed in the heart, slashed throat, etc).

    Keeping my fingers crossed that Jodi Arias will be found innocent.

    • Edward, I agree with points you bring up. I also pray that Jodi will not be found guilty and also that she will finally receive the therapy she so needs and deserves. This young lady continues to have to go through so much, including being in jail already for several years and being vilified by the media, nationally.

    • Yes! I have mentioned the Mormon Blood Atonement being the most likely scenario IMO. I believe now, and always have, that Jodi had NOTHING whatsoever to do with the slitting the throat or the washing of the body or the washing of the “magic underpants”. She wasn’t far enough into Mormonism to be THAT passionate…and for the crime itself to be so similar to a Mormon ritual…Jodi doesn’t fit into it at all.

      Also, the stench in the house MUST HAVE BEEN OVERWHELMING! Why hasn’t THAT been addressed? I have a difficult time believing that the roommates didn’t notice FIVE days of decomposition, especially blood! With the a/c on it would have circulated! Try leaving a few raw juicy steaks or a raw chicken on the counter in the kitchen for 5 days… The local Mormon community had to be in on it somehow. IMO. Jodi is just the fall guy. The majority of the jury is probably Mormon as well, which is scary. If there are Mormons from this area on the jury there is NO way they heard NOTHING of this crime at all prior to trial . This indicates there is a great possibility of jury misconduct. If JA’s Mormon friends are avoiding getting involved, there must be an implied threat…look how things ended for Ashley Reed! IMO THAT was NOT SUICIDE! One of JA’s friends could be next.

  23. Sorry
    Al the one about Ashley and Dustin.
    Does anyone know if any of the ones here have been investigated and interrofgated for the
    killing of Travis.
    It just seems that they were hell bent on Jodi in the very beginning.

    If that isn’t the article you were talking about, I apologize.
    I didn’t mean for it to sound sarcastic.

    I have been confused about this whole thing.
    I’m honestly thinking maybe Jodi is protecting several people.

    To me it sounds like a big cover-up.

    Is this why they are taking so many days off?

    • Aly, I agree, re: Jodi “protecting several people” and “it sounds like a big cover-up.
      The Police (Flores) report is not complete. Ashley WAS interrogated. (Read the top of this page) As for Dustin, I am not certain he was interrogated. He is in jail now though, unless he is out on probation, for another crime. I wonder if you are thinking of Chris and Sky Hughes being the couple “who were hell bent on Jodi in the very beginning.” ??

  24. Ok this might sound dumb but why is the prosecution
    pushing the idea she faked PTSD? If I was gonna fake
    a disorder to try to get out of something PTSD is not exactly
    a criminal defense on its own. Even if Jodi was a great liar
    and super manipulative she wouldn’t think ” hey if I fake PTSD
    I will walk”.

  25. IMO the Ashley Reed autopsy is incorrect. The gun was held at an angle such that she’d have to be on her knees, with the gun pointed into her right temple but at a right to left downward angle with more pressure at 3 to 9 o’clock of the wound. This would require her elbow to be raised. This would make it quite awkward to pull the trigger…unless she lying on a bed…BUT that would STILL be awkward. (in order to travel through her body and hit her foot). Is there a police report and a crime scene investigation report that is available? Seems fishy to me. AND the fact that she was associated with reporting her husbands “possible involvement” in the TA murder leads me to believe this is just another cover up associated with TA murder.

    p.s. a friend I spoke with re: the TA murder trial, out of the blue just blurted out, ” I’ve been thinking about this. 5 days with a dead body in the house! Those roommates had to have something to do with this murder! There is NO WAY they wouldn’t notice any smell.” My friend is in the HVA/C business and knows about air flow. That stench must have been dreadful.

    The investigation was shoddy and this entire trial is a farce. All with Jodi’s life at stake. I hope the jury is a savvy bunch.

    • Depending on the type (size/caliber/model) of the gun it may be difficult to hold at that angle with a small hand. Theoretically she could have used her thumb to pull the trigger, but her hands did not have any kind of injuries that could lead one to believe she had kickback on the hand. I would have expected something from the kick of the gun as she would not longer have had control of it after the shot. And the fact they didn’t test for gunshot residue is also disturbing.

      Also, i wonder what was up with the muzzle imprint before the fatal shot? At least that is how I interpreted it. Someone could have been holding a gun to her head and forcing her to write a note, she could have been working on placement of the gun, who knows. I think I will look for more suicide autopsy reports to see if that is common.

      Hopefully we’ll be able to get a police report and know more at some point.

      I don’t know why, but I just really feel for her too.

      I apologize to any family members who may be upset at this whole page and discussion…it is not meant with any malice.

      • If they didn’t test for gunshot residue on her hands, then this indicates foul play with the investigation. How did they get away with THAT?
        My sympathies to Ashley’s family, from the depths of my heart.

    • Dorothy, and others who are starting to see how the Mormon rituals may fit here: I think there are clues all over the testimony supporting this possible scenario. I’m not even sure Nurmi and/or Martinez both don’t know what may have really gone down. But because of Flores and her fear, Jodi appears to have no way out except for what she is doing now. It’s a shame because she is being forced to lie. It again all sooo fits with the abuse syndrome, and her personality being ripe for that kind of control being exerted over her. She is in a sense, weak, and strong at the same time.

      And now the ultimate test of our humanity, I believe, will be (absent a not guilty verdict, which I believe must be the outcome) how many will continue to ignore the evidence and stand in line for tickets to see an innocent woman put to death?

      http://www.change.org/petitions/trial-by-media-is-wrong-stop-the-spin-headline-news-hln-nancy-grace-jane-velez-mitchell-jean-casarez-vinnie-politan-dr-drew

      • Good post Oncechance.

        Glad you see you are on board with the petition!!!

        Maggie did a great job getting that out there!

  26. Ive been away the pass few days. Enjoying family. I found myself so up set due to the fact that none of them have followed the trial. The main factor they repeated was she didn’t need to kill him. How do you even begin to explain? I just kept saying there is so much more that you have missed by only listening to the news.

    I have to admit that I have always thought there was much more to this tragedy then we will know at this time. So many unanswered questions. But the truth will come out, eventually. It always does!!!!

    I am at this time feeling that although Jodi told three different stories that all three are intertwined with some truth. As for the roommate’s they have been telling bold faces lies….No One could not know that something was wrong with the smell in that house.

    I have faith as does JODI that KN and JW know what they are doing!!

    We will have to endure yet another day of JM…….yikes!!!! Let him rant like a crazy person…..he will end up in the end losing the jury.

    Travis voice will be heard from his grave……the truth will be heard!!!!

  27. Hopefully we won’t have to listen to JM all day.

    Does JW get another chance at the Dr. or does she move on to the next witness?

    I wonder if there are any more jury questions for the Dr?

    • Al..good morning. I may be wrong but I thought that on Thus. there were a few jury questions in the basket. NEW ONES….. You know I’m not 100% sure about JW being able to follow up.

    • Is it not someway very wrong that we allow this person unravel every nerve we have? I noticed how we all were saying such positive things until the “little man” started talking. I didn’t give a darn what he was saying. I was watching Jodi, KN, JW….The good Dr. can hold his own……..The jury I am sure was split on how they were reacting to him.

      If we let him do this to us, then he wins…..that is how a bully is….

  28. These are my Ashley Dustin links i posted a while ago on the Flores report page.

    I’m going to bring my Ashley Reed Thompson/Dustin Thompson links over here.

    link to Ashley Reed and Dustin Thompson family court case, notice that there is an order of protection during the months before her death:
    http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/FamilyCourtCases/caseInfo.asp?caseNumber=FN2008-091725

    Ashley Reed (Thompson) facebook
    https://www.facebook.com/ashleyreed82

    Ashley Reed (Thompson) myspace
    http://www.myspace.com/ashleynthompson/friends

    Ashley Reed posted this on Travis’ facebook:
    http://jodiariasisinnocent.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Ashley-Reed-MySpace-comment-on-Travis-Alexanders-page.png

    funeral home link for Ashley (older picture, before she cut it for the FB photo, which she seemed happy about.):
    http://www.bunkerfuneral.com/visitations/View.php?id=322

    Dustin Thompson as a FRIEND of Deanna Reid
    https://www.facebook.com/dustin.thompson.75873

    Don’t know if this is the same Dustin James thompson, but very creepy if it is…did he watch too many Faces of Death videos?.
    http://www.amazon.com/lm/R2C2XLAJBZR14A/ref=cm_pdp_lm_all_itms

  29. http://www.mrm.org/temple-ceremony

    Before April of 1990, patrons made certain oaths along with signs showing the “penalty” for divulging the aforementioned tokens. For instance, after the patron was given the “First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood,” he was instructed to place his right “thumb under the left ear, the palm of the hand down, and by drawing the thumb quickly across the throat to the right ear, and dropping the hand to the side.” A promise was then made that the person would suffer his “life to be taken” rather than reveal the token. In the earlier days, members had to be more specific with their oaths. They had to promise that, if the secret was ever revealed, their throats would be “cut from ear to ear” and their “tongues torn out by their roots” (Temple Mormonism, pg.18).

    Members were also compelled to make another oath accompanied by a sign representing the penalty for divulging the Second Token of the Aaronic Priesthood. By promising that they would rather die than divulge the secret, they would draw their right hands (in cupping shape) across their chests. Again, this oath has been toned down. Earlier Mormons agreed to “have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field” (Temple Mormonism, pg.20).

    A third oath was given when the patron received the First Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood. This penalty was represented by drawing the right thumb (palm downward) quickly across the stomach area. Earlier oaths made members promise that their “bodies be cut asunder in the midst of all and the bowels gush out” should they divulge the secret given them (Temple Mormonism, pg. 20). The penalties were completely removed in 1990 although patrons still vow not to discuss the ceremony.

    By making these various promises or oaths, the Mormon is actually violating his own scripture found in the Book of Mormon. Throughout the Book of Mormon, secret oaths are considered to be an abomination (Alma 37:27, Helaman 6:22-26, 4 Nephi 42, Ether 8:15-16, 3 Nephi 12:34-36).

  30. Just watched some youtube videos on Lillian LeBaron, and “The God Makers.” I don’t know how it could be any more obvious that Travis Alexander was murdered by mormons in a blood atonement ritual. Ashley who TRIED to give an ANONYMOUS tip was killed, just like Lillian LeBaron, for attempting to out the LDS. What do the mormons have that make them so powerful? MONEY. And people controlling the media. A large part of the church is probably oblivious to the satanic practices, or brainwashed to believe that these practices no longer take place or never even did. I do believe that Dustin Thompson was involved, and so were the “friends” of Travis. What the joe smith and brigham young cultists do not know is that they will never succeed with gaining enough power to “rule the world.” They tried with mitt romney, and failed. Also, Jodi knows who she’s dealing with. Anyone catch the throat slitting gesture she made in court the other day? Of course, it’s been turned around because no one really knows what it means. I believe she is sending a message to the actual murderers that she has vowed not to spill the mormon secrets or else she will give her life, which is exactly what she is doing by asking for the death penalty. I don’t think she is doing this to protect the church though. I think it is to protect her family. The billion dollar cult had enough power to frame her in a murder, get rid of another whistle blower, they could easily get away with doing something to her family, people.

  31. Is it possible that these 2 people could be the Ninjas Jodi was talking about. I mean everybody falsely confesses to crimes everyday. Remember Black Dhalia, I think like over 400 people confessed to that crime.

    • It’s possible Team J.

      I was going through the Flores Report and Melendez, who made the second breach of the laptop without adding a write block protector to it, reported to Flores that he had discovered that at 1619 on the 4th of June was the last time that the laptop had been accessed by anyone. E-mails were sent most likely by Travis who had just finished with Jodi in the office / den and had told her to go clean herself up.

      Zach had been at the house from 1500 to 1600 before heading out to visit Mandy. This means that he might have overheard the conflict taking place in the office / den.

      It was also known that Ashley and Travis had flirted with each using Myspace during the time that Ashley and Dustin James had been separated but were still legally married.

      It’s odd that within three hours after Travis sent the e-mails on June 4th that he is dead and less than two years later Ashley is dead. Both of them either being shot or shooting theirself in nearly the same locations on their head.

      In Ashley’s case it was ruled a suicide but most suicides by guns have statistically been shown to have the gun barrel placed against the persons head and not away from the head as was recorded in Ashley’s suicide.

      Could the same person still be on the loose that shot and then killed Travis as well as Ashley and even possibly Sgt. Drenth?

      Where the e-mails that Travis sent ever discussed in court? What did they talk about? Who were they sent to?

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